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“Out of an abundance of caution” – An overused phrase (2015)
- mds 7y agoThe first time I remember hearing the phrase was in 2009 when Roberts flubbed the swearing in oath at Obama's inauguration. They later announced that the oath was administered again privately "out of an abundance of caution." Was that the origin, or was it in use before that?
- hammock 7y agohttps://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%22abundance+of+caution%22&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2018&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%22%20abundance%20of%20caution%20%22%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%22abundance+o...
- judge2020 7y agoEarliest I found (in terms of books with a year next to them) is from 1689: https://books.google.com/books?id=4zJWAAAAYAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=%22%22%20abundance%20of%20caution%20%22%22&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q=%22%22%20abundance%20of%20caution%20%22%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=4zJWAAAAYAAJ&newbks=1&newb...
- richardfontana 7y agoSpecifically for "out of an abundance of caution", in Google Books there begin to be usages around 1911, based on a very quick search. As noted by someone else it's a pretty common phrase among American lawyers.
- gnicholas 7y agoIt's a common phrase among lawyers, at least.
- Spooky23 7y agoUsually it’s used by attorneys to explain actions that aren’t required by policy or law to demonstrate that actions were taken based on circumstances.
- duxup 7y agoI think folks who make these announcements or send these emails just don't want to screw up and copy and paste what they see from other emails / announcements that they see. They just don't want to say something wrong / stupid... As for the whole "risks" thing, some random administrator at a school has zero clue what the real risks are at this point, let alone even medical professionals who only know of confirmed cases. This is unknown territory for everyone using that phrase and I'm not sure anyone knows what will happen in a day, two days, a week. It seems like a tall order to ask people to " But let’s be honest with ourselves and others about the risks we face and act accordingly, rather than out of an abundance of caution. " when they don't know the risks seems like a loop right back to "an abundance of caution".
- glup 7y agoI use this as a heuristic for people/institutions with out of date risk models. It seems like it usually refers to a Coronavirus response that is at least 5 days behind the timely response, and often much more than that.
- duxup 7y agoDoes anyone have any good risk models / do any administrators for say schools, or anyplace that isn't medical really have any information that would provide them accurate risk models? I think it is more, they just don't know / there isn't good data for them.
- Stratoscope 7y ago(2015) but very relevant today. The other phrase that gets my goat is "for your convenience and safety". When I hear that, my first thought is it will be something inconvenient that doesn't improve my safety. You could combine these two phrases! "Out of an abundance of caution, we now require you to $SOMETHING for your convenience and safety."
- pensatoio 7y agoThat phrase is the epitome of the United Kingdom these days
- matheusmoreira 7y ago> for your convenience and safety I always assume they mean "for our convenience and safety".
- jasonhansel 7y agoA few other similarly annoying phrases: - "In light of recent events" - "Due to unforeseen circumstances" - "It has become necessary" Am I missing any?
- duxup 7y agoI always thought those were phrases for. "Look we don't want to go into the specifics of what did or didn't happen and hell we might not even know .... but here's the bad news...".
- jbay808 7y ago"In these difficult economic times"
- jrockway 7y ago"Thanks in advance." Why not thank me now?
- philwelch 7y ago"Thanks in advance" is kind of like the no-smoking signs that they changed to say "thank you for not smoking". Normally you thank someone after they do something, but by thanking them "in advance", you're passive-aggressively pressuring them to do the thing. After all, you've already thanked them, so they owe it to you.
- rglullis 7y agoIsn't "Thanks in advance" precisely a way of saying "I am thanking you now for something I am expecting will be done only in the (near) future"?
- draw_down 7y agoThat’s what it is. Thank you now for the thing you will do later. Come on. Basic stuff here
- pet-peeve 7y agoNot related in spirit to the post, but I really dislike reading the phrase "That being said" and "Having said that" I see it more and more as time passes; news articles, blogs, reddit posts, hacker news replies.
- prostheticvamp 7y agoWhat is funny is that is not at all my experience right now. The only people I see using the phrase “out of an abundance of caution” are the ones who are massively under reacting, but want to be seen doing something. For instance my gym just sent out an email telling people to make sure they wash their hands when they come to the gym. That email was described as being sent out of “an abundance of caution”.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- elliotpo 7y agoagreed. i teach yoga a lot and that's all i've been dealing with. "out of an abundance of caution we'll be limiting class size to x" (which number does not allow for even four feet of space between students). they're coming around but the phrase is like an eye roll in these cases. it could be asterisk'd with "people get sick, grow the f up"
- dwd 7y agoYeah, there are times and situations where this is appropriate; now is not one of them. In the current circumstances a 40-70% chance of contracting, and a 5% mortality rate is neither low risk or low impact for an individual. If you estimated the risk of something as fairly low probability but with a large impact: out of "an abundance of caution" is highly warranted. I would think getting your flu shot each year would qualify saying that.
- will_pseudonym 7y ago"That's a great question." is another one that you won't be able to unhear. This Freakonomics podcast was what made me aware of it consciously. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/thats-a-great-question-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/thats-a-great-question-a-ne...
- Thorrez 7y agoAs the blog post points out, "Out of an abundance of caution" is used to hide the truth and harm people's freedom. I don't think "That's a great question" has serious problems like that.
- philwelch 7y ago"That's a great question" is a filler phrase that lets you stall while you're figuring out how to answer the question. It also flatters the asker of the question, so you can kill two birds with one stone.
- whatshisface 7y agoOne time I was asked a question while explaining something to a professor. I thought it was a really impressive and insightful question, so I said "that's a great question." I was briefly bewildered when he didn't register my complement, but then I realized...
- csours 7y agoSomebody called me on this last week. The thing is, I really do think it's a good question if I can't immediately answer it!
- pouta 7y agoAs a non-native speaker, what's the problem of complimenting the question? I genuinely only use it if the question is good enough to get me questioning my self.
- supernova87a 7y agoWell, when people have no quantitative risk metric to judge their actions by, how else do you suppose they explain their thinking? Would you have them say something like, "given the risk of inaction causing an incremental 2% infection cases among our customer population, we judged that imposing an added cost of $5 per employee and customer was a reasonable choice"?
- dionidium 7y agoThe exact opposite is happening with this phrase in the current situation. The only people saying they’re doing something, “out of an abundance of caution” seem really to be saying something like, “this doesn’t seem necessary, but we’re getting some pressure to do it, so we’re doing it,” or they’re saying it about actions that are far too limited given the actual threat. Here’s an example from Chick-fil-A in my inbox: “We’ve instructed anyone who is not feeling well to stay home out of an abundance of caution...” That’s not an abundance of caution, for crying out loud! That’s the absolute minimum anybody should be doing in response. It’s likely far too measured.
- kiawe_fire 7y agoIt's also a great way to encourage people who may, for example, be skeptical of everything to take actions they otherwise wouldn't. Think you just have the common cold and won't be doing any harm by going out like normal? Well... out of an abundance of caution, stay home anyway. Your point is well taken that this is probably the least anybody could be doing, but nonetheless, the actual actions being taken and the end result seems to be positive, which is far more important than the language behind it, IMO.
- philwelch 7y agoI used to have a deep revulsion for cliches in general, so I definitely get where this guy is coming from. The thing is, cliches work when they encode concepts in ways that everyone understands. I don't remember the specific example, but I remember one conversation where I was tediously trying to explain and apply a concept that there was already a 3-4 word cliche for, and the person I was talking to impatiently just blurted out the cliche at me. I was annoyed because I was trying to avoid invoking cliches, but I later realized that invoking cliches can actually be an efficient form of communication.
- geofft 7y agoReminds me of "Tropes are not bad": https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TropesAreTools https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TropesA...
- ethbro 7y agoI noticed NPR commentators in the US (particularly younger, progressive ones) love the adjective "problematic." Upon reflection in the car, I literally have no idea what information they're trying to convey via its use. It seems obviously defined on its face, but problematically lacking when one tries to characterize it in detail. Are you saying it's bad? Wrong? Unjust? I have no idea!
- duxup 7y agoThat word very quickly became nonsensical filler for "it's bad" or "I don't like it" or "I disagree". At one point it was useful for some specific cases (like all such words) but the nature of it being vague meant you could throw it around aimlessly ... and it lost meaning quickly. It happens with a lot of new phrases and words that seem to carry with them some depth and such and they are quickly abused to the point of losing all meaning and context.
- whatshisface 7y ago"I don't like it" sounds like your own subjective opinion, but "it's problematic" projects your own subjectivity on to the object as if it was a property of the object.
- FpUser 7y agoPolice favorite: "high rate of speed"
- sk5t 7y agoOh buddy, I hate "high rate of speed" so much. Speed is already a rate of travel. This is just adding words and blather in an attempt to sound official, and not too far from "utilize" in place of "use," or "methodology" in place of "system." Or "vehicle" for "car."
- friendlybus 7y agoMethodology and system are two separate ideas.
- philwelch 7y ago"Vehicle" is a little more generic. It could be a truck. Is a truck a car? I suspect "vehicle" (and perhaps even "high rate of speed") might be frequently used by law enforcement because those are the same terms used in the statutory laws they are enforcing.
- Spooky23 7y agoThey talk like that to sound factual and remove ambiguity in a legal sense. If you say “he was driving too fast”, “or he was speeding” that’s potentially a subjective assessment.
- FpUser 7y agoWhat on earth make high rate non objective. Also I am curious why downvotes
- michaelmrose 7y agoI see your "abundance of caution" and raise you a "thank you for your anticipated cooperation"
- dwd 7y agoWas a Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal involved? Raise that with a "We apologise for the inconvenience".
- michaelmrose 7y agoIt was on the public bulletin board for a apartment complex. The complex changed hands and the new complex management was in the habit of closing with that remark. We took it as a sign and moved.
- josh_fyi 7y agoThe legal phrase “Out of an abundance of caution” has a technical meaning: “The fact that I am dealing with this problem should not be taken to imply that I agree that there is any real legal problem or that I am taking any responsibility for one.”
- kazagistar 7y agoInteresting. That doesn't match my informal understand, but actually explains a lot about how it's being used today. There is a certain amount of emphasis on weasely avoidance of liability and not earnestly confronting problems properly baked right in.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoThis may be intended to solve/work around the problem of Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics - i.e. if you as much as touch a small part of a problem, you're now considered responsible for solving the whole thing. https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/ https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...
- manicdee 7y agoThis is why nobody goes to the good place anymore. Such a pedantic concept of ethics means nobody can do any good.
- closeparen 7y agoIt also has a social peacemaking meaning: "the fact that I'm doing risk management with you is not a reflection of how I feel about you personally."