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>"We don't make pure electric cars because for the time being, we think they're too heavy, and they don't make a cool sound. And as long as we can be CO2 neutra

>"We don't make pure electric cars because for the time being, we think they're too heavy, and they don't make a cool sound. And as long as we can be CO2 neutral and frugal and clean comparatively, we will push the combustion engine." Impressive tech, but I'd by lying if I said this doesn't rub me the wrong way. How do you mean combustion being CO2 neutral? And cool sound, this is one of my pet peeves. Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Sound limitations should be a lot stricter than they are.

dfee 7y ago
Sure dude. And as a driver on a motorbike, how about you stay off your cell phone while driving. And, as I frequently see here in California, how about you all also stop smoking blunts while driving? I should mention that a lot of motorcyclists feel that loud exhausts are a way of protecting themselves from distracted drivers.
- andrepd 7y ago
  Whataboutism at its finest. How to drivers using cell phones diminish the validity of complaints about excessive noise? They're two unrelated problems.
  - dfee 7y ago
    I’m confused. Did you not read my comment? I specifically addressed how they’re not two separate problems.
    - Klinky 7y ago
      You need to accept some responsibility when deciding to ride a motorcycle. You're essentially saying you're okay with your body acting as the crumple zone in a crash. If it's so dangerous out there that you need to rumble around at 100dB then maybe it's time to reconsider. Many cars have impressive sound dampening and those that don't have wind noise drowning out almost anything else on the road.
      - jascii 7y ago
        Yes, I choose to have my body be the crumble zone rather then using some innocent child for that purpose from the comfort of a 2 ton piece of armor with blind spots the size of Manhattan. Cars are about the most selfish ways to haul your rump around. I personally don't have loud pipes, but in the context of the damage your car does the complaint is laughable.
        Klinky 7y ago
        Do you really think that you wouldn't kill a child if you crashed into one on a motorcycle, or that the visibility on your motorcycle makes that outcome impossible? Car safety for occupants and pedestrians has improved dramatically over the last few decades. The same cannot be said for motorcycles.
        jascii 7y ago
        Yes I do. And what's more, both statistics and my insurance company agree. The simple fact that my own life is at stake, makes me much more aware of my surroundings. This is a well researched neurological fact. Also, a 450lbs projectile has a lot less impact then a 2 ton one at the same speed. It is also significantly harder to hit a child with a 3' wide vehicle then with a 7' wide one.. Car safety for occupants has increased and due to a side effect of aerodynamic design survivability of a pedestrian crash has marginally increased. Due to gigantic A pillars and a false sense of security, the amount of accidents has significantly increased and the safety of other road users is at an all time low.
        Klinky 7y ago
        Did you double check that your lower insurance rates aren't due to non-existant injury/medical and uninsured motorist coverage, reduced value of the vehicle, and the vehicle being classified as a recreational vehicle vs daily driver? (450lbs motorcyle + 160lb rider) vs 60lb child = death. Riding a motorcycle while impaired, is one of the leading causes of motorcycle fatalities. Failing to wear PPE accounts for a significant number of potentially non-fatal accidents becoming fatal. Distracted riding is also on the rise. This doesn't seem to imply motorcyclists are inherently more aware of their surroundings or making better decisions due to the increased danger.
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    Not really. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to understand that a fall at 70mph on a bike is probably fatal versus a car crash at 70mph with steel and airbags wrapped all around. Dumbass distracted car drivers are a bigger issue than motorocyles with "loud exhaust". Jack off to another topic - you're out of your element.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    >Whataboutism at its finest. Your comment was, literally, "what about noisy motorbikes".
  - hinkley 7y ago
    > I should mention that a lot of motorcyclists feel that loud exhausts are a way of protecting themselves from distracted drivers. Not a motorcyclist, but I’ve heard this from many places. Can say that as a bicyclist, my best pieces of biggest safety equipment were in roughly descending order of importance: having my head in a swivel (vigilance), perfecting a barking shout, really good brakes, and in last place, a helmet. If the helmet comes into play you’re already at least a little fucked. If I could make bikes louder I probably would. The one time I’m aware I cut off a motorcyclist, it was his engine that kept me out of his lane (to be fair, he was nearly in my blind spot, which is partly on him)
- deleted 7y ago
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- throwythrower 7y ago
  Motorcycles are dangerously loud (to the point of causing hearing damage). They amplify traffic woes when they weave in and out of crowded lanes. Oh and there’s a reason the “biker dude” stereotype exists. If generating incessant noise is your only way of staying safe on the road, maybe consider getting something not as risky. Drive a car or take the bus. It works for the vast majority of people, maybe they’re on to something eh?
  - silverreads 7y ago
    SUVs are probably the safest option. You get your nice isolation and you also get a nice crash cage! I wonder why it's so hard to prove to motorcyclists that this is the most efficient option!? ...Because they don't care about that crap. They are way ahead of your efficiency, often even ahead of the efficiency of a bus. A bike can get 70mpg without very much trouble and some more than 100mpg, and they don't cause traffic congestion in the first place because they occupy little additional space beyond the rider. Gee, Maybe they're on to something, eh?
    - throwythrower 7y ago
      This has to be some of the most flawed logic I’ve ever heard. Would that mean a pedestrian walking in the middle of the freeway wouldn’t cause congestion either? They take up even lesser room, eh mate? Electric anything (this includes most city buses and cars, and some newer motorcycles) has a way lower environmental impact than any IC motorcycles. But hey, you do you, and keep telling yourself you’re getting 100 mpg so you’re doing better than most people.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        Walking is more efficient than driving, it’s not viable beyond short distances. Most vehicles are not electric yet.
      - salty_biscuits 7y ago
        Honda super cub begs to differ. Only 90kg of materials and a fuel efficiency of 60 km/l plus...
- anyfoo 7y ago
  Strangely enough, they aren’t allowed to “protect” themselves doing that in Germany, and yet the fatality rate per capita is much lower.
  - ukd1 7y ago
    German driving is way-way-way better on average than anywhere in the US. The test here is a joke, there is no lane discipline, and most folks drive very selfishly: driving in Germany has always been a much better experience, I'd understand why you'd need to on a bike in the US.
vilhelm_s 7y ago
I guess he means it can run on ethanol produced from biofuel.
smbullet 7y ago
I promise that you don't have Koenigseggs racing up and down your block. These are perfomance vehicles that are rarely taken out, usually to tracks or shows, and contribute very little to the world's carbon pollution. Unless I missed something and they started making budget cars, it's really not a problem.
- yao420 7y ago
  Well unless you live in certain parts of London: https://youtu.be/P-yHO1Lx878 https://youtu.be/P-yHO1Lx878. Noise pollution from sports cars and motorcycles is real.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    I don't think that single example meaningfully contradicts the "rarely" sentiment.
    - ravar 7y ago
      The video says this happens for the duration of the summer, every year. That seems pretty frequent to me.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        Frequent in that neighborhood, but still very rare in the grand scheme of things. You're missing the forest for the trees.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - evgen 7y ago
        It does not happen “for the duration of the summer”, it is usually only for a few weeks and in a few locations (which, coincidentally, have a high percentage of Middle Eastern expats.). You do not see Ferraris cruising through Shoreditch and with the exception of one douche who drives a gold Lambo down my road every weekend as he heads off somewhere to show it off I have never seen one of these cars actually being driven. Parked near Harrods or Green Park begging for attention, yes. Driving around? No.
fwip 7y ago
> This is a flexible-fuel engine optimized to burn alcohol—ethanol, butanol, or methanol, or any combination thereof. Alcohol fuels are great for performance, but Koenigsegg says their use is also a key part of making the TFG clean, since they generate fewer harmful particulates than gasoline. And with sustainably-sourced fuel, the TFG can be effectively carbon-neutral.
allovernow 7y ago
You really don't understand car enthusiasm. These are more than just toys for some people. There's a certain soul to them. And this "nuisance" is overstated. The amount of harm that enthusiasts do in terms of noise and air pollution are absolutely negligible - don't clutch pearls.
- ajmurmann 7y ago
  I used to live on third Street in SF and quite regularly a huge swarm of insanely loud motorbikes would come by. We'd have to stop talking or rewind the movie we were watching, even with the window closed. With the window open it's literally painful. And that was likely not only impacting the entire building but hundreds of people who live on that street. All so that a bunch of man children can get attention. I can only some that it's a reflection of a general attitude in which they either don't care about the impact of their action on others or are completely oblivious. Either way, it's a poisonous attitude that we don't need in our society and should be punished accordingly. Edit: why is it important to understand car enthusiasts? I don't understand people who are enthusiastic about fucking children either. I don't need to understand everyone's enthusiasm, especially if it's actively harmful.
  - allovernow 7y ago
    >All so that a bunch of man children can get attention. I can only some that it's a reflection of a general attitude in which they either don't care about the impact of their action on others or are completely oblivious Again, you don't understand enthusiasts. You have a single stereotype based on the most obnoxious motorcyclists. This is pearl clutching. Also most people live outside of high-rises.
  - allovernow 7y ago
    >people who are enthusiastic about fucking children either. I don't need to understand everyone's enthusiasm, especially if it's actively harmfu Because auto modification teaches discipline and determination and is practice for other general skills. This is nothing like fucking children and the fact that you'd equate the two is evidence of your [un]righteous indignation. Your rage is misplaced. Edit: imagine being this pissed off at computer enthusiasts for buying multiple GPUs and overclocking their machines. It's about the same level of absurdity.
aguyfromnb 7y ago
>Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? I'm not a rich guy, and I don't find it to be a nuisance in most circumstances; I appreciate the sound of high performance engines, and so do many other people.
- castorp 7y ago
  But a lot more people find loud engines simply horrible and inconsiderate.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    how do you know? I live in a major city and I find loud exhausts to be only a fleeting annoyance. I'll admit I hate when people put straight pipes on motorcycles and inline fours, but I love listening to porsches and amgs go by. you might not guess it, since I drive a pretty quiet car myself. outside of hn, I've never really encountered anyone who was more than mildly annoyed by loud exhausts.
    - EL_Loco 7y ago
      Sure, just as when I lived in a big crowded city I never really encountered anyone who was more than mildly annoyed by graffitti, trash in the street, minor vandalism (broken street lights, etc), and even petty theft.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        There's a massive difference between an ephemeral accelerating (unmodified and within regulations) sports car and actual crime.
    - anyfoo 7y ago
      It just adds up, you know? I own a Porsche and I purposely left the sports exhaust option out (even though you can turn it off, I wasn’t sure if it wasn’t still louder then). Because if using my fun car means annoying everyone else in a radius like they are annoying me when they pass my house, it wouldn’t be that much fun. Can’t imagine what it must be for parents of young children, when some exhausts are loud enough to wake me up in the middle of the night (and the surrounding car alarms).
sudosysgen 7y ago
I'm pretty sure one of the goals of freevalve was to make biofuels much more effective (and reach 50% efficiency)
adamredwoods 7y ago
> Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Sound limitations should be a lot stricter than they are. My neighbor owns a couple of Porches with modified mufflers and a very loud motorcycle. I've argued with him at length about how his choice of noise intrudes on our peace, especially late at night. The bass vibrations travel further and will seem louder in different parts of the house, loud enough that two people conversing need to speak up. It's very bothersome.
- dboreham 7y ago
  You have to realize that these people want to inconvenience others. That's what gives them their kicks. So it really isn't the Porsches that's the issue here but rather your asshole neighbor. I live in the middle of nowhere but.I still have a neighbor who keeps two constantly barking dogs. One of his dogs died so he replaced it with a new puppy which he proceeded to train to bark constantly too.
  - wuunderbar 7y ago
    He told you he purposefully trained the puppy to bark constantly?
- apta 7y ago
  I don't know why the government doesn't intervene and outright ban these practices.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Doesn't it? AFAIK it's illegal to have a noisy muffler, at least here (but it's not enforced, much to people's dismay).
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    Assholes and annoying people will find a way to skirt regulations. The more pressing thing is that if you keep asking for a big brother, don’t be surprised when you get one.
Rabbi_Goldberg 7y ago
There are far more poor guys thumping around in their modified rust buckets with an exhaust system and/or audio system that lacks any of the sophistication and exclusivity of a supercar's song. If you can't appreciate the crackle and pop of a supercar taking off then I'd suggest you're very green in more ways than just your environmental concerns.
adrianmonk 7y ago
I have no horse in this race (I don't ride a motorcycle; not interested), but these days cars and motorcycles both seem to be big offenders. If you want to hate on someone, probably the fairest thing to do is be equal opportunity about it and hate on both cars and motorcycles for this. I discovered this after making the now-regrettable choice of living very near a busy major road. I hear a lot of vehicles. (Sometimes so loud that I can't understand the TV in my own living room.) At first I assumed it obviously must be motorcycles. But one day I gazed out the window and watched traffic for a while, and to my surprise, I learned there really are a whole lot of cars which have been modified to be super loud. I didn't exactly collect stats, but it's not obviously more one than the other.
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  I actually just moved specifically because of this problem. The peace and quiet has been such a nice change. You should really consider it as soon as you can. The biggest offenders here in the PNW are actually pickup trucks. Having worked in the automotive industry recently, I know that pickup trucks are one of the only profitable classes of vehicles left for dealerships. It's really an unfortunate situation. People are willing to overpay for gargantuan vehicles that make too much noise, use too much fuel, and pose a severe risk to pedestrians, so they can build some kind of macho identity. This really seems like an area where governments should step in and put upper limits on vehicle size and noise generation.
  - adrianmonk 7y ago
    Hah, your timing is great. My lease is up for renewal, I've already toured some other alternatives, and I'm trying to decide right now (like maybe today) whether I want to put in an application. The expense and hassle are both significant, but being away from that noise would be pretty nice. It's interesting to hear the perspective of someone with firsthand knowledge of the situation. One thing I realized in this process is that you can find quiet and you can find walkability, but if you want both, that's way more difficult. Also, in my experience, the loudest vehicles are all that way due to aftermarket modifications. And they're probably breaking noise laws that already exist but just aren't enforced.
augstein 7y ago
> Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Sound limitations should be a lot stricter than they are Haven’t given that much thought until now, but I guess you are completely right. One person driving a loud motorcycle or car through a dense city at night, can potentially disturb/wake up hundreds of people or more.
- mikeyouse 7y ago
  They can and they do - I live in SF and it happens constantly. Especially with all the shitty cars with hypersensitive car alarms, so you get the double impact of motorcycles obnoxiously roaring by at 120db and then a few minutes of car alarms. Makes me nearly homicidal to realize how selfish people can be.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  And the problem is that they put loud mufflers on purpose. The stock mufflers aren't very noisy, or at least they're as silent as a 16k RPM engine can be.
  - ska 7y ago
    Well the harleys are some of the worst offenders here, even on stock pipes. RPM isn't really an issue there.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Yeah but Harleys' main selling point is literally "the stock exhaust is distinctively annoying".
ska 7y ago
> Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? Not so much in pure sports cars, but some performance sedans have started to pipe engine sounds in through the stereo due to a combination of the engines being quieter and the sound isolation being better - but owners who pay more for the engines want to hear them. Seems like a good solution for everyone...
BoorishBears 7y ago
It’s funny you assume people want their cars to sound nice for you. My car makes cool sounds, and they’re for me. Just like people who say sports car owners just want to impress others. My car brings me joy, when I’m driving it everyone else might as well not exist outside of their occasional attempts to merge into me. If someone truly wants their car to sound a certain way for others, then the car isn’t the problem, the person is. They’d find some other way to get under you skin if it wasn’t noises...
- abofh 7y ago
  Your car creates external effects. No matter how much joy you're giving yourself, if you're causing harm to others, then you're creating the problem. I can buy an air horn and follow you around, but blasting it in your ears is illegal for a reason.
  - ukd1 7y ago
    That's why most states have noise limits or things like CARB that limit what you can change on a car; CA = 95db at max.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    This screed is based on the falsehood that a loud sound is equivalent to a “nice sound”. One of the loudest exhausts commonly encountered is unaffectionately referred to as a “fart can” It’s nice in the way dog shit brown is a nice color In that technically it is opinion that that defines if it’s nice, and if you ask enough people you’ll find some who like it, but most people (including car people) do not find it nice and insult their owners. If anything car enthusiasts trying to get a better sound go to great lengths to cut some of the loudest resonant frequencies an engine produces (referred to as drone) - My car is not exceptionally loud and won’t wake up even a suburban neighbor (I live in a city now so it’s parked in an underground garage). If I take it to a race track and wring it by it’s neck, shifting as close to redline as possible, it’s certainly not as quiet but not many cars are in that setting... The Koenigsegg would probably not be loud puttering around, these cars are designed for refinement. If it’s waking up a neighborhood, it’s because the driver is treating said neighborhood as a raceway, and at that point sound is very low on the consequences that can have.
anyfoo 7y ago
This is a pet peeve of mine since moving to the US. All the loud cars and motorbikes revving up at night, even setting off car alarms. Don’t remember that ever being a thing in Munich (which, you can imagine, has plenty of high performing cars and motorcycles).
audunw 7y ago
> How do you mean combustion being CO2 neutral? I read elsewhere that they can run the engine on a wide range of fuels, so I think they mean it's CO2-neutral if you run on biofuels. I'm not a big fan of biofuels, but I think they can have some role in a transition period if you have a mostly battery-electric drivetrain with an engine as range extender... and this car is a pretty good model for that. Remember that the production of batteries is limited, so it might be better to build 2 million cars that use a range extender once in a while, rather than 1 million cars that runs only on batteries (I say this as someone owning a pure battery electric vehicle btw). But I think the key for this kind of transition vehicle is an ultra-simple and compact generator. Maybe something that is modular and can be swapped with a battery pack later. I think free-piston engines is what we need (I'm guessing they need something like Freevalve though, so maybe Koenigsegg's research contributes there)
mirimir 7y ago
> Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Here too, except in winter. I'm out in the country, in the northeastern US, in hilly country. Late at night, with the windows open, I can hear bikes for maybe 5-10 km. I can even tell which roads they're on. Edit: In the winter, there are the snowmobiles, but our windows are closed.
balls187 7y ago
Cool sounds doesn't necessarily mean "nuisance." Most US municipalities have noise ordinances for a reason. If you feel someones vehicle violates that, file a complaint with the local non-emergency police line.
- detritus 7y ago
  Why should I/We have to? Surely people can just shut tf up?
  - balls187 7y ago
    > Why should I/We have to? Because law enforcement will tell you they have bigger things to deal with, so while nuisance makers are learning to shut tf up, people triggered by noise can learn to chill tf out.
    - detritus 7y ago
      'Triggered', check. Do you live in a dense urban populace? There is no room for excessive noise-makers here. Go bother the countryside if noise is your thing.
      - balls187 7y ago
        > excessive noise-makers here Excessive is the ear of the beholder. If you feel that it's excessive, call the non-emergency line. There are ordinances.
litany 7y ago
They are talking about their ability to run on biofuel (e85). They achieve the greatest performance on e85. The most recent research I’ve seen is that production of fuel ethanol is now carbon 0 or slightly carbon negative, for the whole chain (including production of raw materials, transportation etc). This won’t be the case for all plants, and it’s not clear to what extent production has reached this level, but it shows what is possible. So yeah, burning things may not be necessarily bad. Unfortunately no one seems to be investing in similar technologies to apply to other sectors of transportation such as aviation and shipping. It would seem to me to be much more realistic to design an engine for a airliner that burns a biofuel than to design a battery electric version. The people who have embraced biofuel (e85) the most are car guys looking for more power. E85 has good knock resistance (high octane rating) like race fuel, but is far cheaper. It also has a greater cooling effect upon injection (because you need to inject more, as it is lower energy density).
- h0l0cube 7y ago
  To counter, while ethanol production might be a net loss in atmospheric CO2, it competes with food production, resulting in deforestation from increased land use for crops. As far as I'm aware, in terms of land use, biofuel still doesn't compare to solar/wind.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 7y ago
    We can't let perfect be the enemy of good, though. If moving from gasoline to ethanol ultimately reduces pollution, it's going to be faster to achieve. We don't have to swap out everything at the consumer level, especially since many cars can run on E85 already. Continuing to push electric cars is great, but it'll take a lot longer and require a high infrastructure investment to make it truly practical.
    - h0l0cube 7y ago
      Solar and wind aren't exactly 'perfect' either. As I've stated elsewhere, the main problem is the supply constraint, and it's always a trade-off with food production. It means E85 is still expensive, and hasn't shown promise to scale to become cheaper. And the only way it can scale is to use more land, which must come from somewhere. Even if you don't care for the loss of biodiversity, the destruction of carbon sinks may nullify the purported carbon reduction of switching fuels. Hybrid vehicles with regenerative braking don't require infrastructure changes and reduce carbon output, all while the consumer spends less on fuel.
manigandham 7y ago
There are already sound restrictions in many areas, and for vehicle design. Also you only hear the noise during acceleration. They're not that much louder during normal cruising and this one even has an electric-only mode for soundless operation. Laws are designed with a balance for freedoms. Any large city already has plenty of noise pollution beyond the occasional sports car going by. It's more about irresponsible behaviors like people revving at midnight than the car itself.
- jzwinck 7y ago
  Construction is a public good. Loud cars are a private matter which provide a small benefit to vanishingly few and harm a larger number of people. And loud cars are not only driven in dense urban areas, in fact their owners often prefer to drive them on open roads, in the countryside, etc. Loud vehicles are a nuisance to society, and an unnecessary one.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Loud cars are incredibly rare and do not cause serious harm. Focusing on them ignores most of the noise and makes it clear that you're disagreeing with their behavior rather than the noise itself. And that behavior is already discouraged or illegal.
    - jzwinck 7y ago
      Loud cars are rare globally but concentrated locally in certain areas such as London's Edgware Road or New York's Sixth Avenue/meatpacking district. I'll ignore the ad hom, it's already addressed by my previous comment.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        The point is that you're against the behavior but you're calling to regulate the object. They're separate things. People can start up lawn mowers and chainsaws to annoy you too, but we don't ban them either. Instead there are rules around when it's acceptable to use them so you don't do yard work at midnight. Popular areas of London and NYC are loud, yes. Don't live in loud areas if you want a quiet place. No different than living next to an airport or freeway.
jawr 7y ago
> Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Although there is of course very obnoxious drivers out there, I believe a healthy level of sound from motorcycles can save lives; a lot of drivers complain they can’t see them. One of the reasons i was initially scared of ebikes
Intermernet 7y ago
In another video he comments that they are pushing for owners to use Vulcanol (https://www.carbonrecycling.is/products https://www.carbonrecycling.is/products) as the fuel for this car. I'd still rather a pure EV, but for people rich enough to buy one of these cars, I'm sure they could easily afford to exclusively use this fuel. It's still a stretch. We need to try to be carbon negative, not just carbon neutral.

dfee 7y ago

Sure dude. And as a driver on a motorbike, how about you stay off your cell phone while driving. And, as I frequently see here in California, how about you all also stop smoking blunts while driving? I should mention that a lot of motorcyclists feel that loud exhausts are a way of protecting themselves from distracted drivers.

andrepd 7y ago
Whataboutism at its finest. How to drivers using cell phones diminish the validity of complaints about excessive noise? They're two unrelated problems.
- dfee 7y ago
  I’m confused. Did you not read my comment? I specifically addressed how they’re not two separate problems.
  - Klinky 7y ago
    You need to accept some responsibility when deciding to ride a motorcycle. You're essentially saying you're okay with your body acting as the crumple zone in a crash. If it's so dangerous out there that you need to rumble around at 100dB then maybe it's time to reconsider. Many cars have impressive sound dampening and those that don't have wind noise drowning out almost anything else on the road.
    - jascii 7y ago
      Yes, I choose to have my body be the crumble zone rather then using some innocent child for that purpose from the comfort of a 2 ton piece of armor with blind spots the size of Manhattan. Cars are about the most selfish ways to haul your rump around. I personally don't have loud pipes, but in the context of the damage your car does the complaint is laughable.
      - Klinky 7y ago
        Do you really think that you wouldn't kill a child if you crashed into one on a motorcycle, or that the visibility on your motorcycle makes that outcome impossible? Car safety for occupants and pedestrians has improved dramatically over the last few decades. The same cannot be said for motorcycles.
        jascii 7y ago
        Yes I do. And what's more, both statistics and my insurance company agree. The simple fact that my own life is at stake, makes me much more aware of my surroundings. This is a well researched neurological fact. Also, a 450lbs projectile has a lot less impact then a 2 ton one at the same speed. It is also significantly harder to hit a child with a 3' wide vehicle then with a 7' wide one.. Car safety for occupants has increased and due to a side effect of aerodynamic design survivability of a pedestrian crash has marginally increased. Due to gigantic A pillars and a false sense of security, the amount of accidents has significantly increased and the safety of other road users is at an all time low.
        Klinky 7y ago
        Did you double check that your lower insurance rates aren't due to non-existant injury/medical and uninsured motorist coverage, reduced value of the vehicle, and the vehicle being classified as a recreational vehicle vs daily driver? (450lbs motorcyle + 160lb rider) vs 60lb child = death. Riding a motorcycle while impaired, is one of the leading causes of motorcycle fatalities. Failing to wear PPE accounts for a significant number of potentially non-fatal accidents becoming fatal. Distracted riding is also on the rise. This doesn't seem to imply motorcyclists are inherently more aware of their surroundings or making better decisions due to the increased danger.
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  Not really. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to understand that a fall at 70mph on a bike is probably fatal versus a car crash at 70mph with steel and airbags wrapped all around. Dumbass distracted car drivers are a bigger issue than motorocyles with "loud exhaust". Jack off to another topic - you're out of your element.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >Whataboutism at its finest. Your comment was, literally, "what about noisy motorbikes".
- hinkley 7y ago
  > I should mention that a lot of motorcyclists feel that loud exhausts are a way of protecting themselves from distracted drivers. Not a motorcyclist, but I’ve heard this from many places. Can say that as a bicyclist, my best pieces of biggest safety equipment were in roughly descending order of importance: having my head in a swivel (vigilance), perfecting a barking shout, really good brakes, and in last place, a helmet. If the helmet comes into play you’re already at least a little fucked. If I could make bikes louder I probably would. The one time I’m aware I cut off a motorcyclist, it was his engine that kept me out of his lane (to be fair, he was nearly in my blind spot, which is partly on him)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
throwythrower 7y ago
Motorcycles are dangerously loud (to the point of causing hearing damage). They amplify traffic woes when they weave in and out of crowded lanes. Oh and there’s a reason the “biker dude” stereotype exists. If generating incessant noise is your only way of staying safe on the road, maybe consider getting something not as risky. Drive a car or take the bus. It works for the vast majority of people, maybe they’re on to something eh?
- silverreads 7y ago
  SUVs are probably the safest option. You get your nice isolation and you also get a nice crash cage! I wonder why it's so hard to prove to motorcyclists that this is the most efficient option!? ...Because they don't care about that crap. They are way ahead of your efficiency, often even ahead of the efficiency of a bus. A bike can get 70mpg without very much trouble and some more than 100mpg, and they don't cause traffic congestion in the first place because they occupy little additional space beyond the rider. Gee, Maybe they're on to something, eh?
  - throwythrower 7y ago
    This has to be some of the most flawed logic I’ve ever heard. Would that mean a pedestrian walking in the middle of the freeway wouldn’t cause congestion either? They take up even lesser room, eh mate? Electric anything (this includes most city buses and cars, and some newer motorcycles) has a way lower environmental impact than any IC motorcycles. But hey, you do you, and keep telling yourself you’re getting 100 mpg so you’re doing better than most people.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Walking is more efficient than driving, it’s not viable beyond short distances. Most vehicles are not electric yet.
    - salty_biscuits 7y ago
      Honda super cub begs to differ. Only 90kg of materials and a fuel efficiency of 60 km/l plus...
anyfoo 7y ago
Strangely enough, they aren’t allowed to “protect” themselves doing that in Germany, and yet the fatality rate per capita is much lower.
- ukd1 7y ago
  German driving is way-way-way better on average than anywhere in the US. The test here is a joke, there is no lane discipline, and most folks drive very selfishly: driving in Germany has always been a much better experience, I'd understand why you'd need to on a bike in the US.

vilhelm_s 7y ago

I guess he means it can run on ethanol produced from biofuel.

smbullet 7y ago

I promise that you don't have Koenigseggs racing up and down your block. These are perfomance vehicles that are rarely taken out, usually to tracks or shows, and contribute very little to the world's carbon pollution. Unless I missed something and they started making budget cars, it's really not a problem.

yao420 7y ago
Well unless you live in certain parts of London: https://youtu.be/P-yHO1Lx878 https://youtu.be/P-yHO1Lx878. Noise pollution from sports cars and motorcycles is real.
- catalogia 7y ago
  I don't think that single example meaningfully contradicts the "rarely" sentiment.
  - ravar 7y ago
    The video says this happens for the duration of the summer, every year. That seems pretty frequent to me.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      Frequent in that neighborhood, but still very rare in the grand scheme of things. You're missing the forest for the trees.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - evgen 7y ago
      It does not happen “for the duration of the summer”, it is usually only for a few weeks and in a few locations (which, coincidentally, have a high percentage of Middle Eastern expats.). You do not see Ferraris cruising through Shoreditch and with the exception of one douche who drives a gold Lambo down my road every weekend as he heads off somewhere to show it off I have never seen one of these cars actually being driven. Parked near Harrods or Green Park begging for attention, yes. Driving around? No.

fwip 7y ago

> This is a flexible-fuel engine optimized to burn alcohol—ethanol, butanol, or methanol, or any combination thereof. Alcohol fuels are great for performance, but Koenigsegg says their use is also a key part of making the TFG clean, since they generate fewer harmful particulates than gasoline. And with sustainably-sourced fuel, the TFG can be effectively carbon-neutral.

allovernow 7y ago

You really don't understand car enthusiasm. These are more than just toys for some people. There's a certain soul to them. And this "nuisance" is overstated. The amount of harm that enthusiasts do in terms of noise and air pollution are absolutely negligible - don't clutch pearls.

ajmurmann 7y ago
I used to live on third Street in SF and quite regularly a huge swarm of insanely loud motorbikes would come by. We'd have to stop talking or rewind the movie we were watching, even with the window closed. With the window open it's literally painful. And that was likely not only impacting the entire building but hundreds of people who live on that street. All so that a bunch of man children can get attention. I can only some that it's a reflection of a general attitude in which they either don't care about the impact of their action on others or are completely oblivious. Either way, it's a poisonous attitude that we don't need in our society and should be punished accordingly. Edit: why is it important to understand car enthusiasts? I don't understand people who are enthusiastic about fucking children either. I don't need to understand everyone's enthusiasm, especially if it's actively harmful.
- allovernow 7y ago
  >All so that a bunch of man children can get attention. I can only some that it's a reflection of a general attitude in which they either don't care about the impact of their action on others or are completely oblivious Again, you don't understand enthusiasts. You have a single stereotype based on the most obnoxious motorcyclists. This is pearl clutching. Also most people live outside of high-rises.
- allovernow 7y ago
  >people who are enthusiastic about fucking children either. I don't need to understand everyone's enthusiasm, especially if it's actively harmfu Because auto modification teaches discipline and determination and is practice for other general skills. This is nothing like fucking children and the fact that you'd equate the two is evidence of your [un]righteous indignation. Your rage is misplaced. Edit: imagine being this pissed off at computer enthusiasts for buying multiple GPUs and overclocking their machines. It's about the same level of absurdity.

aguyfromnb 7y ago

>Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? I'm not a rich guy, and I don't find it to be a nuisance in most circumstances; I appreciate the sound of high performance engines, and so do many other people.

castorp 7y ago
But a lot more people find loud engines simply horrible and inconsiderate.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  how do you know? I live in a major city and I find loud exhausts to be only a fleeting annoyance. I'll admit I hate when people put straight pipes on motorcycles and inline fours, but I love listening to porsches and amgs go by. you might not guess it, since I drive a pretty quiet car myself. outside of hn, I've never really encountered anyone who was more than mildly annoyed by loud exhausts.
  - EL_Loco 7y ago
    Sure, just as when I lived in a big crowded city I never really encountered anyone who was more than mildly annoyed by graffitti, trash in the street, minor vandalism (broken street lights, etc), and even petty theft.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      There's a massive difference between an ephemeral accelerating (unmodified and within regulations) sports car and actual crime.
  - anyfoo 7y ago
    It just adds up, you know? I own a Porsche and I purposely left the sports exhaust option out (even though you can turn it off, I wasn’t sure if it wasn’t still louder then). Because if using my fun car means annoying everyone else in a radius like they are annoying me when they pass my house, it wouldn’t be that much fun. Can’t imagine what it must be for parents of young children, when some exhausts are loud enough to wake me up in the middle of the night (and the surrounding car alarms).

sudosysgen 7y ago

I'm pretty sure one of the goals of freevalve was to make biofuels much more effective (and reach 50% efficiency)

adamredwoods 7y ago

> Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Sound limitations should be a lot stricter than they are. My neighbor owns a couple of Porches with modified mufflers and a very loud motorcycle. I've argued with him at length about how his choice of noise intrudes on our peace, especially late at night. The bass vibrations travel further and will seem louder in different parts of the house, loud enough that two people conversing need to speak up. It's very bothersome.

dboreham 7y ago
You have to realize that these people want to inconvenience others. That's what gives them their kicks. So it really isn't the Porsches that's the issue here but rather your asshole neighbor. I live in the middle of nowhere but.I still have a neighbor who keeps two constantly barking dogs. One of his dogs died so he replaced it with a new puppy which he proceeded to train to bark constantly too.
- wuunderbar 7y ago
  He told you he purposefully trained the puppy to bark constantly?
apta 7y ago
I don't know why the government doesn't intervene and outright ban these practices.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Doesn't it? AFAIK it's illegal to have a noisy muffler, at least here (but it's not enforced, much to people's dismay).
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  Assholes and annoying people will find a way to skirt regulations. The more pressing thing is that if you keep asking for a big brother, don’t be surprised when you get one.

Rabbi_Goldberg 7y ago

There are far more poor guys thumping around in their modified rust buckets with an exhaust system and/or audio system that lacks any of the sophistication and exclusivity of a supercar's song. If you can't appreciate the crackle and pop of a supercar taking off then I'd suggest you're very green in more ways than just your environmental concerns.

adrianmonk 7y ago

I have no horse in this race (I don't ride a motorcycle; not interested), but these days cars and motorcycles both seem to be big offenders. If you want to hate on someone, probably the fairest thing to do is be equal opportunity about it and hate on both cars and motorcycles for this. I discovered this after making the now-regrettable choice of living very near a busy major road. I hear a lot of vehicles. (Sometimes so loud that I can't understand the TV in my own living room.) At first I assumed it obviously must be motorcycles. But one day I gazed out the window and watched traffic for a while, and to my surprise, I learned there really are a whole lot of cars which have been modified to be super loud. I didn't exactly collect stats, but it's not obviously more one than the other.

jniedrauer 7y ago
I actually just moved specifically because of this problem. The peace and quiet has been such a nice change. You should really consider it as soon as you can. The biggest offenders here in the PNW are actually pickup trucks. Having worked in the automotive industry recently, I know that pickup trucks are one of the only profitable classes of vehicles left for dealerships. It's really an unfortunate situation. People are willing to overpay for gargantuan vehicles that make too much noise, use too much fuel, and pose a severe risk to pedestrians, so they can build some kind of macho identity. This really seems like an area where governments should step in and put upper limits on vehicle size and noise generation.
- adrianmonk 7y ago
  Hah, your timing is great. My lease is up for renewal, I've already toured some other alternatives, and I'm trying to decide right now (like maybe today) whether I want to put in an application. The expense and hassle are both significant, but being away from that noise would be pretty nice. It's interesting to hear the perspective of someone with firsthand knowledge of the situation. One thing I realized in this process is that you can find quiet and you can find walkability, but if you want both, that's way more difficult. Also, in my experience, the loudest vehicles are all that way due to aftermarket modifications. And they're probably breaking noise laws that already exist but just aren't enforced.

augstein 7y ago

> Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Sound limitations should be a lot stricter than they are Haven’t given that much thought until now, but I guess you are completely right. One person driving a loud motorcycle or car through a dense city at night, can potentially disturb/wake up hundreds of people or more.

mikeyouse 7y ago
They can and they do - I live in SF and it happens constantly. Especially with all the shitty cars with hypersensitive car alarms, so you get the double impact of motorcycles obnoxiously roaring by at 120db and then a few minutes of car alarms. Makes me nearly homicidal to realize how selfish people can be.
StavrosK 7y ago
And the problem is that they put loud mufflers on purpose. The stock mufflers aren't very noisy, or at least they're as silent as a 16k RPM engine can be.
- ska 7y ago
  Well the harleys are some of the worst offenders here, even on stock pipes. RPM isn't really an issue there.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Yeah but Harleys' main selling point is literally "the stock exhaust is distinctively annoying".

ska 7y ago

> Why does a rich guy's wish for a "cool sound" in his sports car justify being a nuisance to other people? Not so much in pure sports cars, but some performance sedans have started to pipe engine sounds in through the stereo due to a combination of the engines being quieter and the sound isolation being better - but owners who pay more for the engines want to hear them. Seems like a good solution for everyone...

BoorishBears 7y ago

It’s funny you assume people want their cars to sound nice for you. My car makes cool sounds, and they’re for me. Just like people who say sports car owners just want to impress others. My car brings me joy, when I’m driving it everyone else might as well not exist outside of their occasional attempts to merge into me. If someone truly wants their car to sound a certain way for others, then the car isn’t the problem, the person is. They’d find some other way to get under you skin if it wasn’t noises...

abofh 7y ago
Your car creates external effects. No matter how much joy you're giving yourself, if you're causing harm to others, then you're creating the problem. I can buy an air horn and follow you around, but blasting it in your ears is illegal for a reason.
- ukd1 7y ago
  That's why most states have noise limits or things like CARB that limit what you can change on a car; CA = 95db at max.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  This screed is based on the falsehood that a loud sound is equivalent to a “nice sound”. One of the loudest exhausts commonly encountered is unaffectionately referred to as a “fart can” It’s nice in the way dog shit brown is a nice color In that technically it is opinion that that defines if it’s nice, and if you ask enough people you’ll find some who like it, but most people (including car people) do not find it nice and insult their owners. If anything car enthusiasts trying to get a better sound go to great lengths to cut some of the loudest resonant frequencies an engine produces (referred to as drone) - My car is not exceptionally loud and won’t wake up even a suburban neighbor (I live in a city now so it’s parked in an underground garage). If I take it to a race track and wring it by it’s neck, shifting as close to redline as possible, it’s certainly not as quiet but not many cars are in that setting... The Koenigsegg would probably not be loud puttering around, these cars are designed for refinement. If it’s waking up a neighborhood, it’s because the driver is treating said neighborhood as a raceway, and at that point sound is very low on the consequences that can have.

anyfoo 7y ago

This is a pet peeve of mine since moving to the US. All the loud cars and motorbikes revving up at night, even setting off car alarms. Don’t remember that ever being a thing in Munich (which, you can imagine, has plenty of high performing cars and motorcycles).

audunw 7y ago

> How do you mean combustion being CO2 neutral? I read elsewhere that they can run the engine on a wide range of fuels, so I think they mean it's CO2-neutral if you run on biofuels. I'm not a big fan of biofuels, but I think they can have some role in a transition period if you have a mostly battery-electric drivetrain with an engine as range extender... and this car is a pretty good model for that. Remember that the production of batteries is limited, so it might be better to build 2 million cars that use a range extender once in a while, rather than 1 million cars that runs only on batteries (I say this as someone owning a pure battery electric vehicle btw). But I think the key for this kind of transition vehicle is an ultra-simple and compact generator. Maybe something that is modular and can be swapped with a battery pack later. I think free-piston engines is what we need (I'm guessing they need something like Freevalve though, so maybe Koenigsegg's research contributes there)

mirimir 7y ago

> Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Here too, except in winter. I'm out in the country, in the northeastern US, in hilly country. Late at night, with the windows open, I can hear bikes for maybe 5-10 km. I can even tell which roads they're on. Edit: In the winter, there are the snowmobiles, but our windows are closed.

balls187 7y ago

Cool sounds doesn't necessarily mean "nuisance." Most US municipalities have noise ordinances for a reason. If you feel someones vehicle violates that, file a complaint with the local non-emergency police line.

detritus 7y ago
Why should I/We have to? Surely people can just shut tf up?
- balls187 7y ago
  > Why should I/We have to? Because law enforcement will tell you they have bigger things to deal with, so while nuisance makers are learning to shut tf up, people triggered by noise can learn to chill tf out.
  - detritus 7y ago
    'Triggered', check. Do you live in a dense urban populace? There is no room for excessive noise-makers here. Go bother the countryside if noise is your thing.
    - balls187 7y ago
      > excessive noise-makers here Excessive is the ear of the beholder. If you feel that it's excessive, call the non-emergency line. There are ordinances.

litany 7y ago

They are talking about their ability to run on biofuel (e85). They achieve the greatest performance on e85. The most recent research I’ve seen is that production of fuel ethanol is now carbon 0 or slightly carbon negative, for the whole chain (including production of raw materials, transportation etc). This won’t be the case for all plants, and it’s not clear to what extent production has reached this level, but it shows what is possible. So yeah, burning things may not be necessarily bad. Unfortunately no one seems to be investing in similar technologies to apply to other sectors of transportation such as aviation and shipping. It would seem to me to be much more realistic to design an engine for a airliner that burns a biofuel than to design a battery electric version. The people who have embraced biofuel (e85) the most are car guys looking for more power. E85 has good knock resistance (high octane rating) like race fuel, but is far cheaper. It also has a greater cooling effect upon injection (because you need to inject more, as it is lower energy density).

h0l0cube 7y ago
To counter, while ethanol production might be a net loss in atmospheric CO2, it competes with food production, resulting in deforestation from increased land use for crops. As far as I'm aware, in terms of land use, biofuel still doesn't compare to solar/wind.
- Zach_the_Lizard 7y ago
  We can't let perfect be the enemy of good, though. If moving from gasoline to ethanol ultimately reduces pollution, it's going to be faster to achieve. We don't have to swap out everything at the consumer level, especially since many cars can run on E85 already. Continuing to push electric cars is great, but it'll take a lot longer and require a high infrastructure investment to make it truly practical.
  - h0l0cube 7y ago
    Solar and wind aren't exactly 'perfect' either. As I've stated elsewhere, the main problem is the supply constraint, and it's always a trade-off with food production. It means E85 is still expensive, and hasn't shown promise to scale to become cheaper. And the only way it can scale is to use more land, which must come from somewhere. Even if you don't care for the loss of biodiversity, the destruction of carbon sinks may nullify the purported carbon reduction of switching fuels. Hybrid vehicles with regenerative braking don't require infrastructure changes and reduce carbon output, all while the consumer spends less on fuel.

manigandham 7y ago

There are already sound restrictions in many areas, and for vehicle design. Also you only hear the noise during acceleration. They're not that much louder during normal cruising and this one even has an electric-only mode for soundless operation. Laws are designed with a balance for freedoms. Any large city already has plenty of noise pollution beyond the occasional sports car going by. It's more about irresponsible behaviors like people revving at midnight than the car itself.

jzwinck 7y ago
Construction is a public good. Loud cars are a private matter which provide a small benefit to vanishingly few and harm a larger number of people. And loud cars are not only driven in dense urban areas, in fact their owners often prefer to drive them on open roads, in the countryside, etc. Loud vehicles are a nuisance to society, and an unnecessary one.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Loud cars are incredibly rare and do not cause serious harm. Focusing on them ignores most of the noise and makes it clear that you're disagreeing with their behavior rather than the noise itself. And that behavior is already discouraged or illegal.
  - jzwinck 7y ago
    Loud cars are rare globally but concentrated locally in certain areas such as London's Edgware Road or New York's Sixth Avenue/meatpacking district. I'll ignore the ad hom, it's already addressed by my previous comment.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      The point is that you're against the behavior but you're calling to regulate the object. They're separate things. People can start up lawn mowers and chainsaws to annoy you too, but we don't ban them either. Instead there are rules around when it's acceptable to use them so you don't do yard work at midnight. Popular areas of London and NYC are loud, yes. Don't live in loud areas if you want a quiet place. No different than living next to an airport or freeway.

jawr 7y ago

> Motorbikes are the worst offender here. Although there is of course very obnoxious drivers out there, I believe a healthy level of sound from motorcycles can save lives; a lot of drivers complain they can’t see them. One of the reasons i was initially scared of ebikes

Intermernet 7y ago

In another video he comments that they are pushing for owners to use Vulcanol (https://www.carbonrecycling.is/products https://www.carbonrecycling.is/products) as the fuel for this car. I'd still rather a pure EV, but for people rich enough to buy one of these cars, I'm sure they could easily afford to exclusively use this fuel. It's still a stretch. We need to try to be carbon negative, not just carbon neutral.