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Coronavirus has caused a bicycling boom in New York City
- zck 7y agoI wonder if it's better to take the subway, or use a citibike. With the shared bikes, you're farther away from other people, but you're physically touching the shared bike all the time.
- mhb 7y agoWipe it down with bleach solution.
- jvm___ 7y agoYou can sanitize a bike pretty easy, or just wear gloves, you only really touch the handlebars. More control over whose air you breathe. I can understand the choice.
- quantdev 7y agoThe primary transmission route in inhalation in close proximity to an infected person. Yes, it can persist on surfaces, but this hand-washing meme is mostly a result of (1) it costs nothing and may help, so we should try and (2) masks are supply limited and the healthcare industry doesn't have enough. In reality, if we had an abundance of masks, masks would be more important than hand washing. As it stands, we reserve them for HC workers and infected persons. The point being, subways are worse.
- CydeWeys 7y agoIf you take the hand washing and not touching your face, then you're at almost zero risk from using shared bicycles. Even if someone gets some rona on the handlebars, if you don't transfer it to an orifice in your face you won't catch it. It's not gonna re-aerosolize off the handlebars.
- generationP 7y ago"Not touching your face" is not a viable solution for most people. It's subconscious. If anyone could master this kind of self-control within a week, everyone would be an arahat.
- dmix 7y agoIf you aren’t aware of this those ML apps that beep when you touch your face are pretty surprising. Also there’s the whole psychological thing about telling someone not to do something when it was previously largely automatic, making people do it more. Like having an itch or imagining insect bites.
- wool_gather 7y agoIt's not expected to be perfect and immediate. It's about lowering risk as much as feasible and defense in depth.
- usaar333 7y agoIt's pretty easy to not touch your face when your hands are physically on the handlebars. As long as you are able to wash your hands immediately after getting off the bike, I think you are reasonably safe.
- CydeWeys 7y agoI don't think that's true. People can get a lot better at it in a relatively short period of time. I have.
- magicroot75 7y agoFace touching is literally unconscious in many cases. It's entirely possible you've been touching your face and not noticing it, but have just become more conscious of the times you attempt to stop yourself from touching your face.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
- dmix 7y agoI read N95 masks were basically useless when walking outside, they only mattered indoors and in confined spaces (like public transit). I’d imagine biking is even less transmission and wearing a mask with that is pretty unrealistic. It’s hard to find what is right on the internet though.
- koolba 7y agoUseless or pointless?
- Scoundreller 7y agoPointless waste of a perfectly good mask.
- jbay808 7y agoI biked in an N95 in Vancouver during forest fire season in 2018. Not fun, but doable and it definitely helped -- without the mask I felt absolutely awful.
- CydeWeys 7y agoThat's for a different situation, though. The smoke particulates are very small and are omnipresent, so a mask definitely helps. Coronavirus, by contrast, is only airborne for a short while, so unless you're close to someone who's infected you're not going to be breathing it in anyway. That's why they're saying the masks have limited effectiveness outside.
- jbay808 7y agoOh, when the GP said it's unrealistic to bike in a mask, I thought they meant it would be too difficult. Maybe they just meant unnecessary, in which case I agree.
- CydeWeys 7y agoYeah, I'm thinking that's what they must mean. An N95 mask doesn't cut down your breathing that much, and you can simply down-moderate your effort a little bit so that you never hit a pant. It's no gas mask.
- echelon 7y agoDo you have a citation for this? I don't want to blindly trust that fomites aren't a major risk. If true, that changes how I want to get food to my elders. (I've already gotten them several months worth, but I don't see an end to this and would feel safer if they had more runway.)
- wool_gather 7y agoThe CDC does state in one place that inhalation appears to be the primary route: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmissi... It says surface -> hands -> mucous membrane "is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads". But then again, the TTL of the virus on surfaces is still not certain, so, as also noted there "we are still learning how it spreads".
- erikbye 7y agoThe TTL might be days. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v...
- Alex3917 7y agoBecause the bike industry is currently switching over from rim brakes to disc brakes, you can get some pretty good deals on older (but still brand new) road bikes if you look around. A few months ago I bought a carbon road bike for less than $1,500 including tax. Granted expect to spend at least as much on accessories, but if you live somewhere where you can use it for both commuting and exercise then it still pays for itself pretty quick.
- thedance 7y agoThis is the whole problem with American bicycle culture summarized in a single post. There’s way too many carbon-fiber sports bikes and not anywhere near enough step-through town bikes with panniers, fenders and lights.
- Alex3917 7y agoThe basic issue is that in Amsterdam most trips are only a mile or two, whereas in NYC it's often a 10 or 15 mile commute between home and work. But yeah if you're only going a couple miles on mostly flat terrain then no question a commuter bike is a better choice.
- aqme28 7y agoI don't think that's right. Most of my bike rides are about 1-3 miles. When I commute to work it's about 6 miles and that's farther than most people bike here.
- agumonkey 7y agohonestly enclosed space feel bad right now make alcohol solution and wipe stuff you're about to touch
- cranekam 7y agoJust wash your hands and try not to touch your face. Any virus that is on the bike isn't going to walk up your arms and down your throat. Personally I find it pretty easy to not touch my face. I doubt I am perfect at it but I catch myself a lot. Being outside has to be better than in an enclosed space (a subway car) holding onto handles that dozens of people touched in the last hour.
- zck 7y agoI mean, by the time I'm gone from a citibike to a place where I can wash my hands, I've had to touch a lot of other things. It's not like there are sinks directly next to the citibike stands.
- adrianN 7y agoCarry some disinfectant with you. Covid19 is easily killed by alcohols.
- cranekam 7y agoThen you should wash them at the first chance and avoid touching your face. The only way to be safe here is to seal yourself into a room and avoid all exposure. Since that’s probably not possible the next best thing is to just do the best you can.
- swiley 7y agoI'm not saying it's a good idea but it's totally possible for a lot of us. The company I work for has sent everyone home until next month and you can have groceries delivered over the internet here.
- saklani 7y agoMaybe use hand sanitizer
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- magicroot75 7y agoI thought they've found the virus to be much more transmittable by air than by touching public surfaces. Is that not the case?
- brenden2 7y agoI've definitely noticed a decline in the number of people on the streets of Manhattan and riding the subway. It's been a breath of fresh air. It's easier than usual to get a seat on the train, so I've been taking full advantage of the opportunity. I haven't really noticed a change in the number of cyclists, but the weather has gotten much better recently so it makes sense that people are biking again. It might be the virus, but it's probably just the good weather (correlation != causation).
- tobiasreissner 7y agoSo?
- Scoundreller 7y ago> The city’s Department of Transportation announced on Wednesday that it’s seen a 50 percent increase in bike traffic on bridges connecting Manhattan to Brooklyn and Queens compared to last March. It's also been regularly 5-10C warmer than average each day so far in March: https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/new-york/10007/march-weather/349727 https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/new-york/10007/march-weath... Almost entirely above freezing means no snow either. And bridges are the first place to melt their snow/ice.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y agoThere has been barely any snow this year in New York. Certainly none was on the bridges before the corona thing. It hasn't regularly been freezing even for most of February. Which was mostly the same as last March. While it's probable that the warmer weather probably has had some effect, I doubt it can explain the whole increase.
- MiroF 7y agoI think you likely missed the part where it is a 50% increase compared to last years March, not February 2020.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y agoI did miss that in my initial pass. But I'm also referring to how last March was warm too. https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/new-york/10007/march-weather/349727?year=2019 https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/new-york/10007/march-weath...
- ipnon 7y agoWhat if we are wrong about global warming and this summer will be 5-10C warmer than average every day?
- peteradio 7y agoThat is the wrong interpretation. It is a shift in the date of the turn on curve, not a bump in the plateau of 5-10C, that would be end of days bro.
- xwdv 7y agoGreat. More cyclists.
- andbberger 7y agoThat is great!
- komali2 7y agoI wonder if you're the dude that chunked a full Gatorade at me for having the audacity to ride my bike on the road.
- ineedasername 7y agoActually that was me, you looked really thirsty!
- tom_ 7y agoIndeed! I agree that this is excellent news, and I'm not sure why your positivity is attracting so many downvotes.
- Scoundreller 7y agoI hate it when the seasonal cyclists steal the lock-points that I've been using all winter. I have squatters' rights dammit!
- lolc 7y agoMy understanding of squatters' rights is when you leave others can take it.
- cafebabbe 7y agoOh my sweet summer child, you have no idea ;)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- machello13 7y agoI personally am using Citibike a lot more, but it's also just because it's finally warm out again.
- sashk 7y ago...if only there were dedicated bike lines. most of my commute on a bike takes those, but most of them are blocked by parked cars.
- overlordalex 7y agoSomeone recently made an app here in Germany where you can take a photo of offending cars and the app automatically forwards the information to the authorities. Perhaps someone can do something like that for NY? Source in German: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/app-wegeheld-falschparker-radfahrer-autofahrer-1.4393515 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/app-wegeheld-falschpark... Here's an English article: https://road.cc/content/news/258976-german-app-lets-cyclists-report-drivers-parked-bike-lanes https://road.cc/content/news/258976-german-app-lets-cyclists...
- turdnagel 7y agoIn New York, the "authorities" park in the bike lanes: https://twitter.com/copsinbikelanes https://twitter.com/copsinbikelanes
- kiliantics 7y agoYes, you can document this kind of thing all you like with the 311 app but cops will "investigate" and find no problems and take no action. Another good twitter account documenting this kind of stuff is https://twitter.com/placardabuse https://twitter.com/placardabuse
- chachachoney 7y agoThey also joyride at reckless speeds around the borough of Queens blaring sirens and driving the wrong way down one way streets for fun. That's at night, while ON duty. Inebriated police driving off duty are also a significant problem in the outer boroughs and are rarely prosecuted in any meaningful way for doing so... If nothing is done about the above, seems like there's little chance that parking in bike lanes or on sidewalks in front of lunch/snack spots is going to be addressed.
- 7y ago
- starpilot 7y agoIs it true people are looting Trader Joe's there?
- talyian 7y agoIt's true that Trader Joe's in Manhattan are jammed with lines going out the door and shopping there is mayhem regardless of whether there's an ongoing pandemic.
- ineedasername 7y agoNo amount of google-fu turned up anything other than a single article that mentioned long lines in a store on the Upper West side. Maybe it's making the rounds on facebook/social media as a scare-story but there's no apparent truth to it.
- bluegreyred 7y agowouldn't it be risky to ride behind a potentially infected rider? after all you'd be breathing in their exhaled air, or would the speed and wind dillute the aerosol quickly enough to make it harmless? I read that italy banned bicycling in affected locations to avoid accidents that would further strain their already stressed health care system. sorry, no source.
- Scoundreller 7y ago> would the speed and wind dillute the aerosol quickly enough to make it harmless? Basically this. It's a probability thing though. Indoors, air is stagnant and sneeze droplets can float around for a few hours. Riding behind another cyclist requires poor luck for enough of their sneeze to impact you. It's still cool enough for me to wear a face mask too, so that's another (hypothetical) risk reducer. Plus, a cyclist is a good signal someone doesn't have active respiratory disease.
- ck2 7y agoAh not even isolated in a car but breathing heavy around the city, spreading the virus. Going to be a whole lot of quiet outside there soon with exponential spread. Calm before the storm. People just do not seem to understand you can be infected without having symptoms for day. Or rather they just do not give a damn who else they infect.
- CydeWeys 7y agoYou're much more likely to infect someone else by riding the subway than you are riding a bicycle. It spreads best in enclosed spaces with calmer air. It doesn't transmit well outside, unless you're breathing right up in front of someone's face (which just doesn't happen on a bicycle, but might happen with e.g. pedestrians waiting in close formation for a light).
- Scoundreller 7y agoWhat I really want to know is if there's been a stairwell boom. Stairwells usually have the freshest air because they have to be at a positive pressure. And people with respiratory diseases will be taking the elevator. Possibly before they even feel other symptoms. Not sure how often stairwells are cleaned though.
- polynomial 7y ago> Not sure how often stairwells are cleaned though. 'Never' would be my wild guess.
- gshdg 7y agoBased on dead roach observations, this sounds about right.
- mistrial9 7y agoapparently, some other parts of the world are quite interested in USA COVID-19 outbreak, too https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E5%86%A0%E7%8A%B6%E7%97%85%E6%AF%92%E7%97%85%E7%BA%BD%E7%BA%A6%E5%B7%9E%E7%96%AB%E6%83%85 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E5%86%A0%E7%8A%B6%E7%97%8... (note the link to a Facebook page at the top)
- leonixyz 7y agoCoronavirus is causing only positive consequencies: - old people die, reliefing the public pension system - air pollution has been drastically alleviated - relations between US and EU finally started to decline thanks to Trump, and China aims to replace US' part Now people should just realize that our extreme capitalism is root cause of all the bad things which happen in the world today, and it should be severely limited and private companies should be replaced with state owned groups, where that makes sense (like for example for the health system). Where that doesn't make sense, fine to keep capitalism, but we need much less of it
- ineedasername 7y agoBut they're bicycling to some place with other people, so it's not like they're out of close contact with others. Although I suppose it's still better than having that same contact and the additional contact of public transport.
- ajross 7y agoNo, but they're in less contact. While the infection rate is still low[1], we're not trying to eliminate the "possibility" of infection, we're trying to reduce the likelihood of a transmission event. So biking to a workplace and not sitting in a subway car is eliminating a bunch of transmission events. That reduces the R0 of the epidemic, which determines the exponent with which it will grow (or shrink). Enough measures like this and the case count starts going down over time and not up. Defense in depth, basically. Is it enough? We just don't know. But it's absolutely not useless. [1] This stops being true once the infection rate starts being non-negligible. That's where you have to go to hard quarantine measures that try to eliminate all non-essential contact. But we're not there yet.
- op00to 7y agoWe are there in Westchester, maybe Ocean/Monmouth.
- ajross 7y agoNot really. There are 20M people in the metro area and 421 positive tests so far. Assume (reasonably conservatively) that those tests reflect about 10% of the active infections, and that there are about 2x as many contagious but asymptomatic cases as sick people (both the doubling rate and the incubation period seem to be about 5-6 days). That's one potential transmission event per ~2500 people right now. You'd have to be on a lot of subway cars to be within infection distance of that many people. It's close enough to be worried, but not at "going in public will make you sick" yet. (Edit: covidtracking.com just pushed some new numbers, and NY is at 524 cases. Up 25% in a day is freakout territory -- a doubling period of just a little over 3 days. We have to hope this is an artifact of more testing capability or just a data burp.)
- crazygringo 7y agoAs another commenter mentions, last March was freezing cold and this March has been relatively warm. (I went jogging last night in Brooklyn in 63°F weather!) But the article also doesn't mention that Citibike finally rolled out the e-bikes for good. I'm not sure how much of a difference that's making, but I wouldn't be surprised if that also accounts for an extra increase on the bridges specifically, since getting up the bridges is really their main use case.
- kevstev 7y agoThose e-bikes also have special cheaper pricing for trips that start or end outside of Manhattan, in order to stimulate this type of trip. Something correlation... causation... can't remember the rest... :)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jeffadotio 7y ago> it was uncertain whether New Yorkers who aren’t used to cycling on the city’s inconsistent network of bike lanes —which are frequently clogged by parked or idling cars and trucks — would take the mayor’s advice The notion that New Yorkers use bike lanes is funny. I live on a major Manhattan avenue with a bike lane and there is at least three times as much bicycle traffic on the sidewalk right next to it. Even motorized scooters are more commonly seen on sidewalks than the road. When I lived in Brooklyn I learned to peek my head around the corners of pedestrian bridges because motorists and cyclists will speed around them recklessly. The food delivery gig industry has put this behavior into high gear. It’s illegal, but New York laws are more like guidelines. From my fire escape I can see a vacant lot that is used to store stolen bicycles while they are advertised on craigslist. I guess I wouldn’t have to go far if I decided to buy a bike.
- cochne 7y agoWhich avenue is that? Whenever I am cycling I see most people in the bike lane if there is one available.
- jeffadotio 7y agoI removed that level of specificity out of an abundance of caution. I still use the internet by the rules of the 90s, except that I no longer ask my parents for permission to visit AOL keyword “kids”.
- thawaway1837 7y agoYeah, that’s never been my experience. You may see some scooters on the sidewalk. Bicycles are far more likely to be on the road than sidewalks. Note that kids under a certain age are allowed to bike on the sidewalk.
- bfdm 7y agoThere needs to be consistent and safe bike lanes first, including sharp enforcement against drivers who don't honour them. I made the same decision years ago at University. I'd much rather risk a ticket or minor pedestrian accident by riding on the sidewalk than risk my life comingling with cars who don't give a shit.
- JulianMorrison 7y agoHumans: We can't do all the green things! It's expensive! Who cares if the planet is overheating! A WILD CORONAVIRUS APPEARS Humans: Okay lets do all the green things.
- kingkawn 7y agoSpring is more exciting than coronavirus is scary
- shartshooter 7y agoSilver lining in the epidemic that more folks might get used to biking to work over the next few months due to social distancing, so that becomes more normal and cities start to adapt even further. General city traffic will be way down and bikers will have a lot more freedom, so it feels safer, so more people adopt, etc Could be a positive step in making the cities more liveable