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I'm about ready to throttle the next "it's just a flu" person I read. It's real; it's serious and we should be taking rational actions to mitigate and contain i
by davidw 7y ago
I'm about ready to throttle the next "it's just a flu" person I read. It's real; it's serious and we should be taking rational actions to mitigate and contain it. Don't go to events, avoid restaurants, bars, gyms. Work from home if you can. Have a supply of food for home.
In some of the worst hit areas of Italy, it looks like they're already triaging people or considering it.
- josefresco 7y agoI'm not old, I don't look sick, or act sick but I have an autoimmune disease and take immunosuppressant medications. If one more person tells me not to freak out, I too will throttle them.
- DailyHN 7y agoWhat do you mean by "throttle"? Edit: What actions can we take to reduce the spread of this misinformation effectively?
- metanoia 7y agothrottle (v.): (1) to compress the throat of; choke (2) to kill by such action
- DailyHN 7y agoSo how can someone do that on a platform such as Twitter? Edit: I did expect a serious response to this from someone that might know more about effectively delivering feedback to the algorithms that display this content. Frankly, it seems like the nonchalant responses(to say the least) are contributors to why this misinformation continues to proliferate.
- davidw 7y agoIt's not actually meant literally. BTW, some internet lore: "The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." -- Larry Wall
- thaumasiotes 7y ago(Fictional) counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnNSnJbjdws&t=86 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnNSnJbjdws&t=86
- belltaco 7y agohyperbole: noun exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
- egeozcan 7y agoYou can unfollow people or smash their devices with an axe[1], or anything in between. It's up to your imagination. [1]: https://www.orneryboy.com/comic?sort=29 https://www.orneryboy.com/comic?sort=29
- josefresco 7y agoMy interactions have been in person. Even friends and family who know I have a compromised immune system seem to "forget in the moment". It's baffling.
- DailyHN 7y agoWhat about using "block" and "spam" reporting? Are enough people using these features?
- josefresco 7y agoWe've gotten off track. I was referring to my interactions with people IRL and the joke about "throttling" was just playing of the parent comment. I'm not actually considering violence, just sick of people telling me "it's no big deal" when for me, it's a VERY big deal.
- DyslexicAtheist 7y agoI think relying on the good will of the masses as volunteers is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. The opposing side does disinformation for profit[1] and has a budget for it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22526530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22526530
- josefresco 7y agoI think people understand the basics of COVID-19 well. What they don't realize are how many "sick" people are around them. See also the health care debate over "pre-existing" conditions. Until you have one, or have a family member with one, you're pretty clueless. Autoimmune diseases are under diagnosed, but some estimates say it's more than 1% of the population. That's roughly 3.3 million Americans that may be taking medications that reduce the efficacy of their immune system. TLDR; Don't assume everyone is healthy / carries the same risk, even if they look healthy. Edit: Fixed my math.
- dobleboble 7y agoUS population is about 330,000,000 so 1% would be 3.3 million, not 30 million https://www.census.gov/popclock/ https://www.census.gov/popclock/
- josefresco 7y agoArg! My bad, that's what I get for commenting while pissed off. I'll edit the original post but thanks Internet stranger!
- Seenso 7y ago> TLDR; Don't assume everyone is healthy / carries the same risk, even if they look healthy. Also, apparently serious illness can increase the chance of miscarriage in pregnant women: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/pregnancy-faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/pr...: > Pregnancy loss, including miscarriage and stillbirth, has been observed in cases of infection with other related coronaviruses [SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV] during pregnancy. High fevers during the first trimester of pregnancy can increase the risk of certain birth defects. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203382/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203382/: > Conclusions. The observed birth depressions were consistent with pandemic influenza causing first trimester miscarriages in ∼1 in 10 pregnant women.
- tomp 7y agoI don't understand why we should all self-isolate just because some people are immunocompromised... Surely x% of people staying home/not working is better than 100% of people staying home/not working?!
- rabidrat 7y agoWash your hands, don't touch your face. But seriously, I wonder if we can take the lessons from mitigating a biological viral epidemic, and apply them to mitigating an informational viral epidemic.
- DailyHN 7y agoGreat thought. At first, you made me think about how a quarantine/isolation plan could be implemented on the internet. Something that is controlled mostly by a limited number of entities. However, what if there was a habit for individuals to "feel clean" after exposure to misinformation? Something that could be accomplished on a personal level. Like washing your hands or brushing your teeth. Something where afterward you feel like you contributed to both the community and your own wellbeing.
- deegles 7y agoBe sure to wash your hands after!
- daemonk 7y agoOff topic here. But what's kinda interesting about covid19 is that a significant amount of the fatalities appears to be associated with cytokine storm syndrome. Suggesting that the effects of the infection might not kill you, but your body's immune system overreacts and kills you.
- teshier-A 7y agoHow about "Follow official recommendations" instead ? In France Macron made a show of going to the theatre urging people to live normally (within the new regulations, e.g. no mass gathering above a certain size). Advising people to stockpile food this early is sure to make the situation even worse.
- egeozcan 7y agoThese kinds of stunts are happening everywhere, with governments left and right oriented. My parents remember how everyone was panicked because of the Chernobyl disaster in Turkey, how Cahit Aral (then Turkey's industry and trade minister) drank tea in front of the cameras to prove the Black Sea region, which produces most of Turkey's tea, wasn't contaminated, and how Turgut Özal (then Turkey's PM) commented that radioactive tea tasted better (huge sigh). Funny, it occurs that the little increase of radiation in that region really had no significant effect on cancer rates, but those people didn't know that. I still can't explain why government officials keep doing such stunts. Maybe there should be a Wikipedia list for these.
- whatshisface 7y ago>These kinds of stunts are happening everywhere, with governments left and right oriented. It reveals how leaders think of their constituents - they are not approaching this from the perspective of informing the public on how to best deal with this real but not world-ending danger, instead they are thinking of it in terms of "stopping the cattle from stampeding."
- bilbo0s 7y agoIf the danger is real but not world ending, then stopping the cattle from stampeding is the appropriate priority. Because the cattle stampeding can actually be world ending. Particularly for the trampled cattle who were likely in little danger from the start.
- lliamander 7y ago
- guscost 7y agoNo thanks. I don’t stay at home worrying about tractor-trailers or terrorists, either.
- davidw 7y agoThis is exactly the mentality that has lead to the virus spreading like wildfire in parts of Italy. This thread discusses the health care system in one part of Italy being stretched to the breaking point: https://twitter.com/silviast9/status/1236933818654896129 https://twitter.com/silviast9/status/1236933818654896129
- jvagner 7y agoSF BART was just as full today as it usually is. Headlines might be that big tech companies are telling staff to WFH and paying their hourly employees during this, but most people at most jobs are going about their lives per the usual, because everyone's locked into it. So far.
- thrwaway69 7y agoNo, it's because of the asymptomatic nature of it and carelessness by the officials. Without supply and strong backend infrastructure, panic will only cause situation to worsen as people crowd up to get supplies, find them out of stock and blow themselves up over it. Panic will also cause a shortage of human resources which are required to handle the situation. People will line up over small issues and displace those who truly need the help like what happened with masks and hand sanitizers. Hospitals won't be able to keep up. The staff will have other problems to deal with as their toddlers or family members are in panic at home due to schools, offices etc everything shutting down. Mortality rate for people under 40s is not high. When you consider the risk factor, you would be more likely to die from using escalators and stairs over a period of 1-2 year. Stop overblowing/underblowing the thing.
- davidw 7y agoYou're right that we should not panic, but start doing the easy things right away to slow the spread.
- beamatronic 7y agoWhat is a realistic typical mild/moderate case? You get a fever for one week similar to the flu? Or is it a longer fever? I haven’t been able to find this information. Do you just isolate yourself and manage it with Ibuprofen and Gatorade? And then wait a week or two before going back to work?
- officialjunk 7y agosurvivors also experience lasting lung issues. avoid it if you can
- dobleboble 7y agoDo you have a reference for that? I have seen the claim posted multiple times, but never any proof.
- officialjunk 7y agois it worth waiting for definitive proof? there are plenty of CT scans out there showing damage. i am not aware of a nicely written trusted source for it. at this point it's not an unreasonable model to assume, and avoid it. if everyone wants to avoid this, and changes behavior now, we will all be safer.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago> is it worth waiting for definitive proof? If you are making the claim then yes.
- officialjunk 7y agoin terms of risk it's not an unreasonable thing to assume, waiting is more risk.
- the-pigeon 7y agoI don't believe there's any studies on that. The virus was only discovered at the beginning of December. Most likely they are referencing this study showing 40% of people who had SARS had long lasting effects https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415378 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... While COVID-19 mutated from SARS it has a number of characteristics that are different so I don't think it's reasonably to assume it'd be the same. Could be worst or better.
- leggomylibro 7y agoItaly has basically suspended its citizens' civil liberties across huge swaths of the country. That does not seem like anything close to a proportional response, and I am very troubled by how okay everyone seems to be with the curtailing of civil liberties. Remember, the 1st amendment guarantees the right of free association and assembly in the United States. Even though I'm voluntarily limiting my exposure to at-risk populations, I will not comply if someone tries to forbid me from moving around; that would set an awful precedent.
- empath75 7y agoI think you might want to recalibrate your idea of how dangerous this virus is.
- whatshisface 7y agoThe virus is dangerous, but so is a government with unlimited power. This is the complicated and contradictory world we live in...
- Angostura 7y agoBottom line: You have come into contact with coronavirus - the government asks you to self-isolate at home. Do you? Or do you go off to your favourite bar?
- whatshisface 7y agoYou do, but you're talking about self-isolating. Here's the scenario we're discussing: the US decides that Assange has Diphtheria and tells him to stay home and not talk to anybody. Does he? Cambodia decides that the opposition party conference is full of dirty politicians and cancels it. Do they still try to meet? In the first case, Assange would be protected by due process and a public hearing (that is the present US law for quarantine orders). In the second case, there might be a problem. You do not want the government using an emergency as an excuse to grab unlimited and unchecked power.
- 7777fps 7y agoAlso a lot of people saying "It's just a flu" have clearly never actually had flu, they've had bad colds which they assume are the flu. The flu deadly, and this is worse.
- Aeolun 7y agoThe flu is a fucking pain, but to call it deadly goes a bit too far.
- macintux 7y agoWell, it kills thousands of people every year. How many more thousands before you consider it deadly?
- Aeolun 7y agoCars kill tens of thousands of people every year, but we don’t call them deadly cars do we? Cancer is deadly, people with the flu recover just fine in 99.9% of all cases.
- macintux 7y agoI’m sure I could find references to distracted driving being deadly. 99.9% of the time that doesn’t kill either. Influenza, at least when paired with pneumonia as the CDC does for reporting purposes, ranks in the top 10 killers.
- kevingadd 7y agoThe flu literally kills people which is part of why everyone is strongly encouraged to get a yearly flu shot: To create herd immunity and protect people who might die if they catch it.
- ShorsHammer 7y agoThe average age of coronavirus victims in Italy is 81. The average life expectancy is 82. Before "throttling" the next person that says it, have you considered these people's opinion that this will not be anywhere near as bad as a regular flu season and far from a severe one which is over 600,000 deaths globally? There's a good chance corona is displacing a lot of the deaths that would have occurred anyway due to the flu. As far as things are going, the infections and death toll is nowhere near what flu has already inflicted on the global population in the last 4 months. Why are people not taking the same precautions for the flu in the last few years? Why do people suddenly care so much? It's very much a media driven situation. SARS in 2002 had no cases anywhere after two years of outbreaks. Something to think about. History can look back on these comments here and judge.
- erentz 7y ago> The average age of coronavirus victims in Italy is 81. The average life expectancy is 82. A proper comparison would be the average life expectancy of someone who is 81. The comparison you make gives the impression on average these people were all going to die next year which isn’t the case. E.g. in 1994 in the US the life expectancy of an 80 y/o male was 7 years, female 9 years. [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7565998/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7565998/
- achenatx 7y agoyou can use this calculator to look at life expectancy at any age for most countries. For italy life expectancy at 80 is 89. https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/your-life-expectancy-by-age https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/your-life-expectancy-by-...
- ShorsHammer 7y agoBoth of us are using averages here, do you not see the flaw in this logic?
- trophycase 7y agoThe death rate of 3.4% as claimed is massive. Some people look at that and think it's small, but for something so contagious that's huge. If it spreads on a pandemic scale someone you know will die from it, almost guaranteed. You just can't say that about the flu.
- hef19898 7y agoI was with you. Until the last paragraph, that turned to rumour spreading and that everything is so much worse. No idea where you have the triage idea from.
- jacquesm 7y agoFrom the news out of Italy: https://www.timesofisrael.com/italy-to-quarantine-over-10-million-in-coronavirus-hit-north/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/italy-to-quarantine-over-10-mi... Some hospitals have run out of IC beds already, many more to follow this week. Whole wards have been converted.
- achenatx 7y agoyes but how far do we go? Shut down all schools? all flights stopped? All businesses closed? mandatory stay at home quarantines with food drops done by the govt?
- cycrutchfield 7y agoThe alternative is your health system gets overwhelmed and you have a 5% fatality rate. So, which do you pick?
- hef19898 7y agoNeither nor. Respect hygiene, avoid masses and generally a lot of contact with people. Don't panic. And don't take medical equipment away from the people needing it. Because that just makes you a bad person. not you personally, but you get the idea.
- austincheney 7y ago> It's real; it's serious and we should be taking rational actions to mitigate and contain it. How does that differ from a widespread flu outbreak? All this says to me is that you don't take the flu seriously.
- lliamander 7y agoEstimates for the COVID-19 mortality rate put it anywhere between 4 and 20 times higher than a severe flu. Hospitalization rates are even higher. There are no vaccines, and no therapies. What else do you need to know that it is serious?
- austincheney 7y agoWhy would you think I believe this isn't serious? The medical advise does not say to avoid public places, avoid travel, or to panic. Inventing medical guidance not provided by the experts and panicking will not make you safer. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...
- lliamander 7y agoOK, fair enough. You didn't deny it was serious. You did ask how this compares to a flu, and I think I addressed that in a number of ways. Worth noting that the stringent measures taken by Hong Kong to curtail the coronavirus have also helped reduce the spread of the flu: https://www.ft.com/content/ad7ae6b4-5eab-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4 https://www.ft.com/content/ad7ae6b4-5eab-11ea-b0ab-339c2307b...
- austincheney 7y agoI accept your back-peddle, but that doesn't answer my question. I am honestly curious. I have noticed that when people are emotionally inflamed about a subject they tend to lose objectivity, gravitate towards like-minded opinions, and selectively pick at certain data. When that selectivity demands data that isn't available the gap will be filled with an assumption. On Reddit, which does not have a limitation upon negative vote totals, you can fine tune this behavior to study group dynamics, which is reflected in the comments.
- jacquesm 7y agoYou'll have to line up and take a number. Sick and tired of people downplaying this. That's what really will make this thing worse. Much worse. Italy is like a war zone right now. I read some first person accounts from health care providers there that read like they are straight from the days of the plague.
- FriendlyNormie 7y agoDo you “throttle” people you disagree with often? You’re wrong, by the way. It’s essentially just a flu. The 0.2% of healthy people who die from it aren’t worth worrying about at all. It’s natural for people to occasionally randomly die from infections of all kinds. A lot of things in this world are being actively ruined by people like you who are spreading panic for no reason. Perhaps you should be “throttled” for this? I’m not sure why so many of you have suddenly decided to take the worst paranoid psychosis traits of Alex Jones, somehow combine those with the worst traits of being an NPC sheep who believes everything the mainstream media tells you, and then make that your identity. Go to events. Go to restaurants, bars, gyms. Relax and enjoy your life. Ignore lunatics who say otherwise.
- sfkdjf9j3j 7y agoIt's a figure of speech, he's not being literal.
- Mountain_Skies 7y agoI work from home and our company has suspended all "non-essential" travel. The head of our division however has won an award so we are all required to go to the award ceremony in the middle of the metro. It's an industry award so people from all over the country are flying in for the event. I wasn't invited at first, too low level, but now that the big wigs have bowed out, the low level folks are being forced to go so he'll have a cheering section when he gets his award. Somehow this isn't covered by the travel ban. Normally I'd take the subway into the city but will probably drive and pay $40 for parking instead to avoid being in close proximity with so many. That won't help during the awards ceremony. There have already been confirmed cases in the metro and some schools have shutdown so while still unlikely, the chance of infection is far from zero. It seems silly to quit over this with things being in the risk limbo they are now but it also seem reckless to require employees to show up to watch you get an award that could be easily mailed to you. Wonder if I can get workman's compensation if I get sick.