6 ms·

Right now, base salary is typically higher in the US for software engineers than in Europe, plus equity is better.

by lacker 7y ago

tixocloud 7y ago
Base salary is higher in the US just because there’s more demand and less supply. Big tech firms + tech startups + majority of engineering depts/HQs in the US means competition is high for software engineering talent. I’ve worked in the U.K. and speaking with many data scientists from other parts of Europe, they say that the real data science work is just non-existent elsewhere and pays less.
- barrkel 7y ago
  The US has more supply, not less. But the demand is even higher. Supply and demand around industry verticals in geographic hubs like SV doesn't follow simplistic supply & demand laws. More labour means more fuel for starting fires, and lots of fires require more fuel to grow, throwing off more and more heat (profit); meanwhile, if you're in a fuel-scarce region, to pursue the metaphor, it may not be possible to start a fire at all. Salaries are high because the companies have global scale and are competing with other companies with global scale, but they can only be global scale because they have lots of labour supply, and they only have that because they're co-located and can utilize fungibility in the labour market. There's little need for data scientists in small local companies.
  - tixocloud 7y ago
    Sorry. When I mentioned less supply, it was in reference to the US market having high demand but insufficient supply so yes, agreed. The environment in the US is just at a different level compared to everywhere else.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  For data scientist positions, I wonder how many of those are created and hired for but management still doesn't know what to do with the data they produce. (Or even how good and/or actionable the data is)
  - tixocloud 7y ago
    Very experimental at this stage although my role is leadership around getting things to production. Data is actionable but a lot of processes/frameworks need to be developed for people to feel comfortable with AI/ML being just a regular part of business process.
peteretep 7y ago
You also need to pay Americans more to compensate for health insurance, insane holiday policy, poor worker protections, huge student debts that can’t be bankrupted out of, and so on.
- arcturus17 7y ago
  This is a typical retort, but the difference is eye-watering and it more than makes up for that. A representative software engineer salary in the US is 5-10x higher than in Spain, and I doubt they are 5-10x more efficient. Kudos to American computer scientists and software engineers for reaching the compensation and status that the profession(s) deserve.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    Where in the US compared to where in Spain exactly? If we go for 5x then you're saying that a SV engineer being paid 200k in SF would be earning 50k in a big city in Spain? (rounding the exchange rate) Glassdoor tells me for "Software Engineer" it's on Avg 114k in SF (150k max) and 34kEUR (~ 40kUSD and 50kEUR max) in Madrid So I can see the 5x for high seniority "regular equity" people but not for your average worker.
    - arcturus17 7y ago
      OK yes, 3x for averages, with a widening gap at the high seniority level. My point still stands - 3x is still a tremendous difference that more than makes up any other consideration (healthcare, rent, etc.) and makes one ponder whether a single US engineer is doing the work of three Spaniards...
      - raverbashing 7y ago
        Agreed, and it's an interesting phenomenon, even if you think inside the country borders. Could Google close their entire MV office and relocate to Medford, Oregon and save millions of dollars in salaries? But of course it's easier and there's more trust (some of which is merited because of how information and best practices spread) that someone that lives in SV can do the job their needed done.

Right now, base salary is typically higher in the US for software engineers than in Europe, plus equity is better.

by lacker 7y ago

Right now, base salary is typically higher in the US for software engineers than in Europe, plus equity is better.

Base salary is higher in the US just because there’s more demand and less supply. Big tech firms + tech startups + majority of engineering depts/HQs in the US means competition is high for software engineering talent. I’ve worked in the U.K. and speaking with many data scientists from other parts of Europe, they say that the real data science work is just non-existent elsewhere and pays less.

barrkel 7y ago
The US has more supply, not less. But the demand is even higher. Supply and demand around industry verticals in geographic hubs like SV doesn't follow simplistic supply & demand laws. More labour means more fuel for starting fires, and lots of fires require more fuel to grow, throwing off more and more heat (profit); meanwhile, if you're in a fuel-scarce region, to pursue the metaphor, it may not be possible to start a fire at all. Salaries are high because the companies have global scale and are competing with other companies with global scale, but they can only be global scale because they have lots of labour supply, and they only have that because they're co-located and can utilize fungibility in the labour market. There's little need for data scientists in small local companies.
- tixocloud 7y ago
  Sorry. When I mentioned less supply, it was in reference to the US market having high demand but insufficient supply so yes, agreed. The environment in the US is just at a different level compared to everywhere else.
raverbashing 7y ago
For data scientist positions, I wonder how many of those are created and hired for but management still doesn't know what to do with the data they produce. (Or even how good and/or actionable the data is)
- tixocloud 7y ago
  Very experimental at this stage although my role is leadership around getting things to production. Data is actionable but a lot of processes/frameworks need to be developed for people to feel comfortable with AI/ML being just a regular part of business process.

peteretep 7y ago

You also need to pay Americans more to compensate for health insurance, insane holiday policy, poor worker protections, huge student debts that can’t be bankrupted out of, and so on.

arcturus17 7y ago
This is a typical retort, but the difference is eye-watering and it more than makes up for that. A representative software engineer salary in the US is 5-10x higher than in Spain, and I doubt they are 5-10x more efficient. Kudos to American computer scientists and software engineers for reaching the compensation and status that the profession(s) deserve.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  Where in the US compared to where in Spain exactly? If we go for 5x then you're saying that a SV engineer being paid 200k in SF would be earning 50k in a big city in Spain? (rounding the exchange rate) Glassdoor tells me for "Software Engineer" it's on Avg 114k in SF (150k max) and 34kEUR (~ 40kUSD and 50kEUR max) in Madrid So I can see the 5x for high seniority "regular equity" people but not for your average worker.
  - arcturus17 7y ago
    OK yes, 3x for averages, with a widening gap at the high seniority level. My point still stands - 3x is still a tremendous difference that more than makes up any other consideration (healthcare, rent, etc.) and makes one ponder whether a single US engineer is doing the work of three Spaniards...
    - raverbashing 7y ago
      Agreed, and it's an interesting phenomenon, even if you think inside the country borders. Could Google close their entire MV office and relocate to Medford, Oregon and save millions of dollars in salaries? But of course it's easier and there's more trust (some of which is merited because of how information and best practices spread) that someone that lives in SV can do the job their needed done.