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Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

429 points by rajnathani 7y ago

alharith 7y ago
I may also win the top prize on these scratch offs I bought today.
- Agenttin 7y ago
  Sending me small monthly payments of just $9.99 May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain
  - thrwaway69 7y ago
    where do I send you money??
  - alharith 7y ago
    Can I combine this with the seed money I have been sowing?
blakesterz 7y ago
Here's the actual study, I'm always skeptical of University PR reports on studies: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/03/02/1913042117 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/03/02/1913042117 "Together, our results suggest that brain network destabilization may reflect early signs of hypometabolism, associated with dementia. Dietary interventions resulting in ketone utilization increase available energy and thus may show potential in protecting the aging brain."
- technoplato 7y ago
  Definitely skeptical here as well, but the article seems to echo these sentiments fairly accurately. I’ll have to head the study though to say for sure.
tiffanyh 7y ago
This isn’t new. Doctors have seen a link between sugar (carbs) and Dementia / Alzheimer’s https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/551528/ https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/551528/
- tryptophan 7y ago
  No, they saw a link between HIGH carbs in blood over long periods of time associated with dem\alz. Eating normal ammounts of carbs isn't going to kill you, it's literally our main energy source.
  - technoplato 7y ago
    Coming from the guy that allegedly puts everyone to sleep during thanksgiving... no chance I’m listening to you
  - ethanbond 7y ago
    The issue that people, at least Americans, run into is that consuming a “normal amount of carbs” is shockingly hard if you’re not consciously trying to avoid them. Foods that don’t really need sugar in them often have it in huge amounts because it delivers more flavor oomph (and separately delivers a dopamine hit). This is especially true in the aftermath of the war on fat because, shocker, fat tastes really good and when you remove it, food tastes worse. How do you make up for that? Add sugar.
    - alberth 7y ago
      Totally agree this is the issue. Most people don't realize that a plain bagel (55g) has more carbs that a slice of pie (43g). https://www.eatthis.com/foods-high-in-carbs/ https://www.eatthis.com/foods-high-in-carbs/
      - dnhz 7y ago
        Do you believe that a plain bagel is less healthy than a slice of pie as a result? The pie will definitely have more added sugars. A plain bagel would make for a reasonable breakfast. Pie?
superbrane 7y ago
I read some time ago about the Keto diet showing good results even in Alzheimer/dementia cases. Keto is not the same as low carb but it's close enough. Our molecular biology and internal chemical reactions are still areas of research in early phases. Just on a different topic, but in the same direction - last 10 years research discovered that immunity boosting has much better results in certain types of cancer than all the other non-surgery treatments (chemical or radiation).
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Keto diet also has efficacy in managing epilepsy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6361831/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6361831/
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- nikolasavic 7y ago
  The Ketogenic Diet as a Treatment Paradigm for Diverse Neurological Disorders https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/ Effects of ketone bodies in Alzheimer's disease in relation to neural hypometabolism, β‐amyloid toxicity, and astrocyte function https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jnc.13107 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jnc.13107 "Diet supplementation with ketone bodies (acetoacetate and β‐hydroxybuturate) or medium‐length fatty acids generating ketone bodies has consistently been found to cause modest improvement of mental function in Alzheimer's patients. It was suggested that the therapeutic effect might be more pronounced if treatment was begun at a pre‐clinical stage of the disease instead of well after its manifestation."
ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
Sugar, not fat is the killer. Incredible how for decades bad research and the likes of Ancel Keys and Phil Sokolof put the health of millions at risk.
- deleted 7y ago
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- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Healthy diets (low carb, moderate fat/protein/fiber) don't generate outsized profits for the agriculture and processed food industry.
  - davidweatherall 7y ago
    Couldn't you also argue that stakeholders who profit off low carb / sugar diets would also have a vested interest to push biased media about the benefits of low carb / fat diets?
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      One could, but the health benefits of low carb diets are observable to both layman (https://reddit.com/r/keto https://reddit.com/r/keto | https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/) and in controlled studies (https://www.google.com/search?q=pubmed+keto https://www.google.com/search?q=pubmed+keto), and the underlying macros are hard to gatekeep (I can get butter for my coffee anywhere). Who are the stakeholders in "low carb"? Influencers? Sure, there are always going to be folks selling shovels, but the information on how to adhere to a low carb diet is freely available, and fat/protein macro foods readily available and fungible (I agree you'll have a slightly more difficult time to adhere to low carb if you're vegetarian or vegan, but it can be done, my partner and I tried it for fun to see if we could). You can spend an inordinate amount for your keto lifestyle, but you can also spend modestly and still arrive at the same results (whether that be weight loss, maintenance of a healthy weight, or management of a condition that is exacerbated by high blood sugar levels). Eat properly ("abs are made in the kitchen", you can't work off excessive carbs consumption). Get enough sleep. Find time to exercise (high impact short duration cardio, weight lifting are best IMHO). These basics will contribute to a long, healthy life. I hope this is helpful to someone, anyone! I was obese from my early teens (pizza and Mountain Dew, sigh), and only in my 30s after much research and experimentation am now in the best shape of my life (healthy BMI, low mile time, targeting a powerlifting competition this year). Everything I learned was from free online resources (r/fitness, r/keto, r/intermittentfasting wikis and discussions), and most of our food purchased at Aldi and Costco. Sidenote: Keep in mind pricing is a signal. All of this information is free, and yet people still spend enormous amounts of money in aggregate on similar self-help materials with lesser results. Food for thought.
throwaway_tech 7y ago
The title is terrible, it should read ketosis/ketones may prevent, reverse age-related effects within the brain. "Low carb" as the title currently reads does not necessarily result in ketosis and your body/brain running on ketones, which appears to be the scope of this study. There is more to dietary ketosis than low carb, just as an example carnivore or paleo diets are low carb, but those will generally not result in ketosis, in protein rich diets your body will convert the protein to glucose which will continue to be the primary fuel for the cells in the brain/body. If you have never entered ketosis and experienced your brain running on ketones, I would suggest you experiment for yourself. I would say a minimum 2-3 months which should be enough time for your microbiome to change and your body/brain to adapt primarily running on ketones.
- collyw 7y ago
  I was about to ask if intermittent fasting would have the same effects as I get the impression that its a healthier way of getting into ketosis. (When I look, I don't see negative effects associated with IF, and I do with keto diets. The research changes a lot and the conclusions don't seem definitive, but I thought someone on here might have an educated opinion on the matter).
  - cagenut 7y ago
    Your body goes into ketosis when it "runs out" of blood-sugar for long enough. It usually takes me 2 - 3 days of staying below 30 net grams (i'm a larger guy, for many people it requires going below 20). IF can be a part of that, in terms of helping you to control your eating and making the time-period at the end of those 2 - 3 days happen maybe a half-day sooner, but fundamentally it doesn't change carbs are carbs. Also you might find the relationship almost works the other way. Ketosis makes IF much easier. I haven't eaten breakfast in years. I don't even really consider that an IF regimen as much as like... once you get rid of the habit for a month or two you completely don't miss it and forget why you bothered.
  - ypcx 7y ago
    In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels without also fasting intermittently. Intermittent fasting is key to enabling me to lower my caloric input because of the momentum of the fasting phase carried over into the eating phase, e.g. smaller stomach and more effective metabolism. I currently fast about 12 hours per day (including the sleep phase), which doesn't sound like much but with the lowered caloric input it's actually pretty good. I can go longer easily when the circumstances demand it, and after crossing 16 hours I actually stop experiencing hunger completely. I plan to extend the fasting periods in the future, if easy and convenient. As for whether ketosis is necessary - I believe I would not be able to fast intermittently without it, or at least not comfortably, which is necessary for any lifestyle change to be sustainable. I'm not aware of any negative effects of being in ketosis for prolonged periods of time, and quite the opposite. I don't crave sugary foods anymore, and I dislike anything with even a trace of sweetness. I was surprised to discover how good the body really is at detecting what food is good for it, once in ketosis. My main food sources currently are avocado, egg, tahini and drinks based on almond or walnut milk. I'm also using vitamin and mineral supplements, mostly in fluid forms. I'm 42 and I wish I had known about keto as early in my life as possible, not when I was forced to explore it due to declining health. Ketosis gives you a stable level of energy through the day and allows you to fully focus on life and the tasks at hand.
tejohnso 7y ago
Noted that the underlying cause for the improvement comes from ketones. This should indicate that intermittent fasting would also show similar results. Low carb diet, keto diet, intermittent fasting, they're all just different ways to switch the fuel source from glucose to ketones.
- newscracker 7y ago
  Would a time restricted feeding type of intermittent fasting, with a 16/8 schedule, really result in the production of ketones? I thought that it would take about a day and a half or longer to exhaust carbs and start the switch to ketones. Then it’s only the longer fasts (like 5/2 days) that could help.
  - collyw 7y ago
    If you pee gets more yellow in that time period (I think) its indicative of ketosis. If anyone is more knowledgeable than me please chime in.
    - p0sixlang 7y ago
      I.. don't think that's true at all. Ketones in your urine is indicative of ketosis. Smell of alcohol on breath is indicative of ketosis. Urine color is not an indicator for ketosis, it's an indicator for hydration.
      - eatmyshorts 7y ago
        You are correct. Urine color is an indicator of hydration. But sugar in your urine will cause your urine to be cloudy and more opaque. I've noticed that when I'm in ketosis that my urine is super transparent (just looking at transparency/opaqueness, not at color).
  - tejohnso 7y ago
    I'm no expert, but from my vast knowledge gained through the internet[1], it seems that ketosis starts at around the 12 hour mark. But I think it would depend on how glucose saturated you already are. [1] I like Dr. Berg's videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwOreYDPCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwOreYDPCM and anything from Peter Attia https://peterattiamd.com/ https://peterattiamd.com/
jaybeeayyy 7y ago
Not sure if I believe all the hype about these wild benefits low carb/keto diets have but I will say I've felt so much better on it...I rarely feel tired anymore and have been weirdly healthy the last 2 years. My doctor was surprised with my blood tests and weight loss when she heard what I eat lol. I'd never go back to the amount of carbs I was eating.
- thekingofh 7y ago
  How do you start? I can't seem to find a consistent diet plan that isn't insanely difficult to get into.
  - cgh 7y ago
    Drop all starchy carbs and replace with meat, eggs and vegetables. It’s not rocket science.
    - riku_iki 7y ago
      You need to add some butter, oil and heavy cream, or chances are you are not in ketosis: 80% of you calories intake should come from fat to guarantee ketosis.
      - TheSpiciestDev 7y ago
        Pecans and other high-fat nuts are great for snacking, too.
      - hanniabu 7y ago
        Olive oil. Lots of olive oil.
        wtetzner 7y ago
        Yep. But you're probably better off cooking with something like coconut oil, and just pouring the olive oil on your food.
uptownfunk 7y ago
IF has really saved my life. I definitely feel like i reverse aged a few years as a result of it. I enjoy food more now, weight is in check, I look younger.. hard to beat the benefits.
- fokinsean 7y ago
  What's your regimen? Do you restrict what kinds of food you eat? What about alcohol? I've been interested in starting it.
  - uptownfunk 7y ago
    Mostly plant based (occasional pizza or gelato maybe once a month), I do alternate day fasting, something like 40:8, fast 40 hours eat for 8.. try to avoid night eating, it makes me feel worse the next day.. maybe a bit much for some but I feel so much stronger as a result. Low caffeine.. probably too much fake meat/soy products for my own good..
    - fokinsean 7y ago
      Oh wow that's an intense fasting schedule (at least to me)! I've been trying to be consistent about 16:8 during the week. Weekends usually mess me up due to alcohol... I've noticed feeling more tired this year and am exploring ways to fight it. Maybe I need to kick down the caffeine as well.
      - uptownfunk 7y ago
        Since I’ve started fasting it’s hard for me to sleep past 4-5am, which is nice because at least in my culture, it’s supposed to be a good time to get up and meditate and think.. it’s not so intense but I don’t do intense physical activity, maybe 30 minutes of ashtanga yoga a day..
- eatmyshorts 7y ago
  As it turns out, insulin resistance, like that associated with type-2 diabetes, is also related to inflammation (apparently due to cytokines: https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/inflammation-and-diabetes https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/inflammation-and-diabetes), which in turn is correlated with heart disease. As I understand it (disclaimer: I'm not a doctor), the inflammation results in damage to the blood vessels, which your body repairs by using cholesterol, among other things, that are in your blood. When LDL cholesterol (the "bad" kind of cholesterol) is used in this way, it calcifies over time, leading to hardening of the arteries. As someone with a high CAC score and premature calcification of my arteries, my doctors have advised me to move to a low-carb diet and combine that with statin drugs to lower my LDL cholesterol. Low carbs generally means lots of meat and lots of saturated fat, which is the opposite advice that doctors traditionally have given for patients at risk of heart disease. Lately there have been lots of studies that show that dietary LDL cholesterol is only very loosely correlated with LDL cholesterol in your blood--primarily because the cholesterol in your blood is produced in your pancreas, not ingested/absorbed from your stomach. So I did a self experiment--go on a ketosis diet for 3 months before I started taking my statins and test to see if my LDL cholesterol changed. It didn't--it went slightly down in my case. Then I went on statins--now my LDL cholesterol is at "normal" levels. So, basically as I understand it, low carb diets can help prevent your body damaging your arteries in the first place, such that they don't need repair. Then, the statins lower my LDL cholesterol such that when my arteries do need repair, the cholesterol that is used doesn't calcify over time. Basically I'm attempting to address my heart disease from both sides: prevent the damage in the first place, and remove calcifying LDL cholesterol from my bloodstream when arterial repair is necessary. Note that this is all pretty cutting edge stuff, and we don't have good studies to demonstrate its effectiveness yet. If you have issues with calcification of your arteries, it is best to work with your doctor to find a program that works for you.
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togs 7y ago
I’m confused because I thought the brain liked sugars: “The bold implication of this idea is that the effects of ego depletion could be undone by ingesting glucose, and Baumeister and his colleagues have confirmed this hypothesis in several experiments.” Kahneman, D. “Thinking, Fast and Slow”. 2011. pg. 43, para. 2, Se. 5.
- mikeklaas 7y ago
  Ego Depletion is junk science which hasn't reproduced in serious experiments.
- wigl 7y ago
  Ego depletion was one of the key losers of the replication crisis in psych. Book was published right before the peak of the crisis. Basically it's impossible because the body can't even digest the glucose in time for the purported effect. Baumeister is also a hack who refuses to let go of the idea while others have moved on. changelog: key example -> key losers
5cott0 7y ago
I still don't understand the tech bro fascination with disordered eating.
- hoka-one-one 7y ago
  Many of us suffer from autism or anxiety or some other mental issue and hope to cure it with some strange diet. That's why despite being some of the most intelligent people on the internet people here will latch on to some singular model of human metabolism that's being promoted by the Russians or the Chinese right now (kidding, but only partly) and use it to justify a new "experiment". Imposter syndrome fits in there. I didn't feel like I was good at my job or any of the things people think I'm good at, so I wanted to be this jack of all trades mad scientist character who uses himself as a guinea pig. Inevitably the low confidence leads to latching onto pseudoscientific theories -- it's a vicious cycle. Others feel out of control of their lives and try to feel some sense of control through disordered eating (looking at you, "fasting"). I don't think I was really in this camp but I know people who are.
  - rofo1 7y ago
    What the hell did I just read. Intermittent fasting works. Talk to people that can show you results. Enough with the "theory". I've heard many theories from obese people and it's always bullshit. Everyone can find far fetched theories for anything on this planet. That's why results talk. You know how they say "money talks"? Same here: results talk. I, on the other hand, can tell you what works 100%, based on results (like 8% bodyfat, in very good shape): Eat clean food, exercise daily, eat in 6-8 hours per day. Don't eat too many calories in total. Do this for some time and I guarantee you will see effects. It only takes will and it's not rocket science. Most bodybuilders that I see are people that are just, you know, dumb. And they can do it. So I promise you it's not complicated or anything. So I don't know what's stopping people from doing it.
    - 5cott0 7y ago
      Intermittent Fasting is an eating disorder. Ketosis (unless you are an epileptic) is an eating disorder.
florin0x01 7y ago
How about weight training and low carb and sometimes IF? Would weight training prevent age related effects within the brain? Also you can't go full keto if you also want weight training, imo.
- wtetzner 7y ago
  > Also you can't go full keto if you also want weight training, imo. You absolutely can, and people are doing it just fine. Check out Metabolic Autophagy: https://www.amazon.com/Metabolic-Autophagy-Intermittent-Resistance-Longevity/dp/1790686393/ https://www.amazon.com/Metabolic-Autophagy-Intermittent-Resi...
  - tokamak-teapot 7y ago
    Yep working fine here on ‘full’ keto (not sure what other kind there is) Depends what you want from your weight training. I enjoy it but I’m not trying to get massive gains.
    - florin0x01 7y ago
      Can you detail on this and what type of training you do? Also what type of gains you experienced? Sure you can do full keto and weight train but I am interested in the gains versus low carb / medium carb diets. As for me, I'm on a low carb diet mostly, although I do enjoy some days of high carb as well.
      - tokamak-teapot 7y ago
        I’ve recently restarted weight training after a few years off due to injury. I already do plenty of other exercise (martial arts, swimming, yoga, a decent amount of fast paced walking, circuit training) and I used to weight train so my form’s okay and I haven’t experienced anything unusual in terms of soreness. I’ve been from light weights (~70% of my previous max) slowly up to my previous max from a few years back and not experienced any problems. I feel like I’m close to the limit on each exercise but I’m already at my previous max weights. And... since I used to do this, I’ve gone keto. So being on keto doesn’t seem to have any observable negative effect on my weight training. I can’t say what I’m going to hit because I’m moving slowly and carefully. For some real stats you’ll need to find studies. I could just be lucky.
sebastianconcpt 7y ago
“The bad news is that we see the first signs of brain aging much earlier than was previously thought. However, the good news is that we may be able to prevent or reverse these effects with diet, mitigating the impact of encroaching hypometabolism by exchanging glucose for ketones as fuel for neurons.” The alternation with ketosis as source of energy is key as it seems... The brain’s response to diet was tested in two ways. The first was holistic, comparing brain network stability after participants had spent one week on a standard (unrestricted) vs. low carb (for example: meat or fish with salad, but no sugar, grains, rice, starchy vegetables) diet. In a standard diet, the primary fuel metabolized is glucose, whereas in a low-carb diet, the primary fuel metabolized is ketones. However, there might have been other differences between diets driving the observed effects. Therefore, to isolate glucose vs. ketones as the crucial difference between the diets, an independent set of participants was scanned before and after drinking a small dose of glucose on one day, and ketones on the other, where the two fuels were individually weight-dosed and calorically matched. The results replicated, showing that the differences between the diets could be attributed to the type of fuel they provide to the brain.
crad 7y ago
This is the first time I've seen something reference ingesting or drinking ketones. While I imagine it doesn't have the dietary benefit for losing fat, if this is a thing, and it's safe, I'm surprised it's not made it's way into energy drinks.
- crad 7y ago
  And it has: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ketones+drink&va=z&t=hk&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ketones+drink&va=z&t=hk&ia=web Probably should have searched first :)
  - arafa 7y ago
    These are ketone ester drinks, but nothing really mainstream or in energy drinks. Esters are far too expensive and the taste far too bad for that. Most people have never even heard of these, in my experience.
- arafa 7y ago
  I have a fair amount of experience with ketone esters and did some research. They taste terrible, but not as bad as I expected and definitely wasn't a deal breaker for me. I got more used to it over time. They're great for fueling from fat instead of glycogen, especially during exercise, (was very helpful for not having to down a ton of gels during a marathon) and not very helpful for weight loss (as you suggest).
nickbauman 7y ago
A lot of folks here are using the term "intermittent fasting". This is a term that can make people struggling with eating disorders kinda lose their minds. May suggest to replace this term with what's probably a better way of saying it anyway, because it's more accurate to what people are really doing when they say IF: Call it "time-restricted eating". You're eating the food you eat for a day in a smaller window. Not really fasting.
- lukifer 7y ago
  There is some correlation between the benefits of "time-restricted eating" and full-blown fasting (autophagy, etc), so it makes some sense to talk about them similarly. There are many benefits to full water fasts, even for 2-3 days (and it's much easier to do successfully if one is already in ketosis). See the work of Dr. Jason Fung: https://thefastingmethod.com/ https://thefastingmethod.com/
  - nickbauman 7y ago
    While we're at it: "Intermittent fasting" versus ... fasting until you die? All fasting is intermittent. IF just doesn't communicate anything regardless. I think it's clear it's just a bad term. Time restricted eating actually describes something specific.
    - lukifer 7y ago
      Haha, point. To the extent that the term still applies, "periodic fasting" would be more accurate; but then, that could just as easily refer to yearly fasting during Ramadan. Does one describe the action, or the absence of action? The norm, or the exception? I dunno, language is a funny thing. :)
- rofo1 7y ago
  > This is a term that can make people struggling with eating disorders kinda lose their minds. Maybe focus on the actual thing and not policing speech?
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
specialist 7y ago
What is the current, best thinking on managing LDL, especially while doing paleo? I got huge benefits from paleo and partial calorie restriction. The biggest being my very bad psoriasis all but disappeared. But it also spiked my LDL. The statins didn't agree with me. I settled on eating every kind of soluble fiber I can find. eg: My morning porridge is steel cut oats, quinoa, chia seeds. I also resumed eating high(est) fiber rice. Alas, all these seeds and grains have carbs. I'd like to find strategies for high soluble fiber while reducing carbs. Even better, would be managing LDL directly. PS- I spotted u/eatmyshorts comments about LDL and misc.
bad_user 7y ago
I have been on Keto for about 8 months, felt terrible and interrupted the diet, only to later find that a lot of the theory behind it (the CIM model) is complete bullshit. And whenever seeing claims of the effects of low carb or keto diets, most claims are confounded by the diet being hypocaloric, or with a significant variance in protein when compared with control, with its proponents constantly shifting the goal posts. This study seems interesting and it has been known that ketosis can help epileptics. But take it with a grain of salt ;-)
- dennis_jeeves 7y ago
  What exactly did you eat, and in what quantities? List all that you ate, if possible. Unfortunately keto has such a broad definition that a lot of harmful stuff (like seed oils) can be considered part of the diet.
hoka-one-one 7y ago
Is it too much to ask that anyone promoting low-carb based on personal experience post bloodwork? I think it's pretty clear no one on here is well-versed in nutrition as we're all programmers, so maybe it'd be good to have some intellectual integrity. I'm interested in prolactin, thyroid, liver, cholesterol, CO2.
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- MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
  I wanted to get bloodwork done to get some hard data, but I'm not sure which data points are the most important ones. Cholesterol and liver I understand, why prolactin, thyroid and CO2?
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- lhl 7y ago
  I've gone through several thousand papers the past year or two so I feel like I'm more well-versed in nutrition than most nutritionists/dieticians at this point, certainly in my understanding the recent clinical/research literature. I rarely post any nutritional/health related statements without citations to peer-reviewed work (see: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lhl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lhl ) I think most people don't publish labs because they view it as personal, but I did a write-up last year, which includes (IMO) basically all my relevant markers: https://randomfoo.net/2019/09/17/1-year-personal-health-intervention-summary https://randomfoo.net/2019/09/17/1-year-personal-health-inte... A very strange set of lab markers you're interested in btw - prolactin has very little clinical value for men (and is almost never tested), but I tested my testosterone at the one year mark (it's fine, 772ng/dL, I have not sequential tests). I had a thyroid panel last year as well and TSH, FT3, and FT4 were all in range. My CO2 has stayed the same regardless of diet - I don't know why that would be relevant at all. For people looking to track their metabolic health, the bloodwork I think is most useful to track over time: CMP, CBC w/ diff, basic lipid panel (fasted 12h), A1c, fasting insulin, Vitamin D, hsCRP. I also was getting a full iron panel, and it was interesting to see my ferritin remained elevated last year (but is within range now - likely a marker of resolving MetS). The thing that almost no one gets measured that is almost criminal IMO is fasting insulin - while it's highly mobile, it's also dirt cheap ($8 more than FBG+A1c direct-to-consumer price), allows calculating the best IR indices, and is a 10-15y leading indicator for chronic metabolic disease. At home, waist circumference to height ratio (WHtR, WSR) is the best simple marker for tracking metabolic health. Ashwell, Margaret, and Sigrid Gibson. “Waist-to-Height Ratio as an Indicator of ‘Early Health Risk’: Simpler and More Predictive than Using a ‘Matrix’ Based on BMI and Waist Circumference.” BMJ Open 6, no. 3 (March 14, 2016). https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2015-010159 https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2015-010159.
ggffryuuj 7y ago
Well here I am again. Here are things I think people should know: Gluconeogenisis does not kick you out of ketosis nor is it’s existence a counter-point to the keto diet. I have first hand experience with keto and psychosis. I experienced something traumatic a while ago and began to have psychotic symptoms similar to schizophrenia. I had read an article beforehand written by a doctor claiming that keto benefited his psych patients, so I tried it. It cured me. Most symptoms gone in a couple days, total remission within a couple weeks. So PSA: if you or someone you know is having problems with psychotic mental health problems, keto may help you. And I should add I was formally diagnosed with psychosis and prescribed antipsychotics. And the symptoms correlated perfectly with going on and off keto. Very little ambiguity. They are doing a study on this in Finland but results won’t be out till December.
thenayr 7y ago
I suffer from an inflammatory disorder and chronic TMD. I wrote my experience of switching to Keto here (this was 2.5 months in, I've stayed fairly strict Keto for nearly 2 years now) - https://medium.com/@iamnayr/2-5-months-on-the-ketogenic-diet-how-keto-has-impacted-my-life-fca8e9adb790 https://medium.com/@iamnayr/2-5-months-on-the-ketogenic-diet...
nikkwong 7y ago
I don't really understand the briefing here; so would taking exogenous ketones also help mirror the beneficial effects of ketosis seen in this study? They did mention feeding their participants exogenous ketones but didn't say anything about those peoples' carb/fat ratios. I'm all for jumping on the high fat/low carb diet; however, I love getting all my polyphenols and other beneficial compounds that are part and parcel with eating plants (higher carb). As many benefits we see from being in ketosis, we also have tons of data on the health benefits of eating plants, so I've been confused as to how to get the best of both worlds here.
- projektfu 7y ago
  There are studies looking at this question.
Munky-Necan 7y ago
I think the prevailing theory will eventually be that a diet rich in monosaccharides is detrimental to health. It's been demonstrated that low carb, high meat diets are not the optimal diet, in that most adults will eat red meat or some type of processed meat and little fiber. Both add to the numerator when looking at myocardial infarction, stroke, and colorectal cancer. When one is in kidney failure it is recommended by the American Society of Nephrologists to attenuate protein derived from animal products. Essentially, balance is what the current recommendations say, but also to stay completely away from sugar. All my sources shamelessly stolen from Uptodate: > U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and U.S. Department of Agriculture. 2015 – 2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans. 8th Edition. December 2015. Available at http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/ http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/ >Carbohydrate quality and human health: a series of systematic reviews and meta-analyses. Reynolds A, Mann J, Cummings J, Winter N, Mete E, Te Morenga. Lancet. >Changes in diet and lifestyle and long-term weight gain in women and men. Mozaffarian D, Hao T, Rimm EB, Willett WC, Hu FB. N Engl J Med. >Meta-analysis of the association between whole grain intake and coronary heart disease risk. Tang G, Wang D, Long J, Yang F, Si L. Am J Cardiol. 2015;115(5):625. Epub 2014 Dec 18.
- cloverich 7y ago
  I miss my up to date access. Tangential -- I do not think people realize a resource like UpToDate exists. Well written up to date summaries of various medical topics based on the latest research. Were something like this to be publicly accessible it would do wonders. If anyone is working on or wants to work on this type of problem please let me know, I'd love to help out (programmer, former MD).
zwaps 7y ago
I am a bit conflicted. According to the comments, one should do very low carb diet to adapt to Ketones as energy. For example, fasting would not be enough for this purpose. But that implies the need for a ketogenic diet. Very low carb diets are difficult to do, at least if you are not very rich: Most of them require a lot of meat. Now, that differs by country. These diets are probably easiest to do in the USA with its huge industrial meat industry. In other countries, like here in Europe, you'd probably need to be a millionaire to buy that much meat in the first place. I don't know anyone doing this successfully. But in any case: is it ethical? I doubt that this would be sustainable for everyone. If everyone would eat mostly red meat, we'd probably roast our planet pretty quickly. I don't think free range farming would support 7 billion carnivores, nor would the fish in the sea. I realize the people doing Low Carb are not necessarily the same who care about sustainability. But if there is such a benefit to Ketogenic diets - for all our sakes - we should think about what happens if everyone wants to do it. Of course there are options. There are low carb Vegans (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo/), but boy is it a chore to do. Also, I doubt this can be done with anything resembling local and unprocessed products. Furthermore, a lot of vegan protein products are high in soy. Which is fine really for any amount you'd normally consume. But if you are serious about low carb, you might eat so much that we get into that "questionable" range in terms of recent research. Perhaps carbs need not be too low. Yeah we can eat a lot of veggies, probably. But it'll be a challenge, I think. Or not? Say, you eat meat once a week. How do you do a ketogenic diet without losing your mind in planning etc?
- nightvoomer 7y ago
  There are two things being conflated, eating cheap keto and eating vegan keto. Cheap keto its eating tons of eggs, berries, cauliflower, zuchinni and soy beans. Eggs are really the main thing though...tons and tons of eggs. Luckily there are hundreds of different ways to make them.
durpleDrank 7y ago
I love carbs.
- deleted 7y ago
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5cott0 7y ago
What's the point of living forever if you're miserable and worn out all the time from managing oddly unnatural longevity diet regimes?
chriselles 7y ago
I’ve been on a keto diet almost exclusively for over 2 years now. Results have been very impressive for me. Not just in weight management, but also for fitness/performance. Anecdotally, cognitive performance/output feels like I’ve moved the needle in the right direction. Not sure if related, but multiple tests on telomere measurement(associated with cellular ageing) show “genetic age” well below my chronological age. Despite all of this, I really don’t know. The low carb and no sugar diet really seems to work for me. If I had to guess, I’d say there is no single overwhelming factor to increasing longevity. I think brain health is a mix of: Healthy nutrition Hydration Fitness/activity level Sufficient sleep Low stress(but not no stress) Purpose People in your life Traumatic brain injury prevention Life long education Reading as a hobby No smoking But in terms of mental agility(if not brain aging), I have a feeling that some low level of hunger is a positive indicator of short term mental agility. I reckon there’s a high performance zone for brain health/performance for both short-term and long-term. I look forward to more quantifiable research in this space. Just my amateur 0.02c
econcon 7y ago
1. Dietary cholesterol is only weakly correlated to blood cholesterol. 2. Most people eat wayy too much. Calories are calories, consume less calories and run your body in calorie deficit if you wanna lose weight and surplus if you wanna gain weight. 3. LDL aka bad cholesterol might not be that bad. There are some new studies which claim that people who had low LDL suffered more from heart issues. What gives? 4. People who eat more sometimes do so to comfort themselves (they've deeper psychological issues), they'll benefit from eating less. 5. Polysaturated fats are good fats, monosaturated fats are bad fats. 6. Carbs are not bad, consuming too much carb is bad for you. Want to lose weight? Reduce your calorie intake (preferably dinner). Reduce feeding window, do not eat after 7pm, eat only after 10am. 7. Lift weight and perform cardio. That's your current nutritional knowledge. Want to increase muscles? Much better to start from skinny state and consume protein, workout and slowly build lean mass through progressive overload. Eat more protein will not build muscle faster, body will only use what it needs, not what's given Most guys/gals on fitness YouTube channels and magnize have achieved that physique through use of drugs. So do not compare yourself to them and be disappointed.
smallcharleston 7y ago
The reason I refuse to read about keto is that pretty much all doctors and public health organizations I’ve seen recommend basically the same things: whole grains, fruits, vegetables, replace saturated fats with unsaturated if possible, low fat dairy, nuts, legumes, fish, some poultry sometimes, strictly controlled alcohol. Until these guys start recommending something such as keto my basic assumption is that it’s either a weird fringe diet or a diet only applicable to very specific medical issues (eg seizures) that me (not a medical professional) should not try on myself. If I go to a doctor and they ask how my diet is and I tell them I eat the stuff I listed above, I’m fairly certain they will tell me good job. If I do some extreme fringe thing, I doubt it will be their response with the same likelihood (though a few probably like it). This is just my personal opinion.
dot1x 7y ago
I've been on Keto for 2 months now but I hardly lost any weight. I'm wondering if my protein intake is too high.

429 points by rajnathani 7y ago

alharith 7y ago

I may also win the top prize on these scratch offs I bought today.

Agenttin 7y ago
Sending me small monthly payments of just $9.99 May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  where do I send you money??
- alharith 7y ago
  Can I combine this with the seed money I have been sowing?

blakesterz 7y ago

Here's the actual study, I'm always skeptical of University PR reports on studies: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/03/02/1913042117 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/03/02/1913042117 "Together, our results suggest that brain network destabilization may reflect early signs of hypometabolism, associated with dementia. Dietary interventions resulting in ketone utilization increase available energy and thus may show potential in protecting the aging brain."

technoplato 7y ago
Definitely skeptical here as well, but the article seems to echo these sentiments fairly accurately. I’ll have to head the study though to say for sure.

tiffanyh 7y ago

This isn’t new. Doctors have seen a link between sugar (carbs) and Dementia / Alzheimer’s https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/551528/ https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/551528/

tryptophan 7y ago
No, they saw a link between HIGH carbs in blood over long periods of time associated with dem\alz. Eating normal ammounts of carbs isn't going to kill you, it's literally our main energy source.
- technoplato 7y ago
  Coming from the guy that allegedly puts everyone to sleep during thanksgiving... no chance I’m listening to you
- ethanbond 7y ago
  The issue that people, at least Americans, run into is that consuming a “normal amount of carbs” is shockingly hard if you’re not consciously trying to avoid them. Foods that don’t really need sugar in them often have it in huge amounts because it delivers more flavor oomph (and separately delivers a dopamine hit). This is especially true in the aftermath of the war on fat because, shocker, fat tastes really good and when you remove it, food tastes worse. How do you make up for that? Add sugar.
  - alberth 7y ago
    Totally agree this is the issue. Most people don't realize that a plain bagel (55g) has more carbs that a slice of pie (43g). https://www.eatthis.com/foods-high-in-carbs/ https://www.eatthis.com/foods-high-in-carbs/
    - dnhz 7y ago
      Do you believe that a plain bagel is less healthy than a slice of pie as a result? The pie will definitely have more added sugars. A plain bagel would make for a reasonable breakfast. Pie?

superbrane 7y ago

I read some time ago about the Keto diet showing good results even in Alzheimer/dementia cases. Keto is not the same as low carb but it's close enough. Our molecular biology and internal chemical reactions are still areas of research in early phases. Just on a different topic, but in the same direction - last 10 years research discovered that immunity boosting has much better results in certain types of cancer than all the other non-surgery treatments (chemical or radiation).

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Keto diet also has efficacy in managing epilepsy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6361831/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6361831/
- deleted 7y ago
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nikolasavic 7y ago
The Ketogenic Diet as a Treatment Paradigm for Diverse Neurological Disorders https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/ Effects of ketone bodies in Alzheimer's disease in relation to neural hypometabolism, β‐amyloid toxicity, and astrocyte function https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jnc.13107 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jnc.13107 "Diet supplementation with ketone bodies (acetoacetate and β‐hydroxybuturate) or medium‐length fatty acids generating ketone bodies has consistently been found to cause modest improvement of mental function in Alzheimer's patients. It was suggested that the therapeutic effect might be more pronounced if treatment was begun at a pre‐clinical stage of the disease instead of well after its manifestation."

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago

Sugar, not fat is the killer. Incredible how for decades bad research and the likes of Ancel Keys and Phil Sokolof put the health of millions at risk.

deleted 7y ago
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toomuchtodo 7y ago
Healthy diets (low carb, moderate fat/protein/fiber) don't generate outsized profits for the agriculture and processed food industry.
- davidweatherall 7y ago
  Couldn't you also argue that stakeholders who profit off low carb / sugar diets would also have a vested interest to push biased media about the benefits of low carb / fat diets?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    One could, but the health benefits of low carb diets are observable to both layman (https://reddit.com/r/keto https://reddit.com/r/keto | https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/) and in controlled studies (https://www.google.com/search?q=pubmed+keto https://www.google.com/search?q=pubmed+keto), and the underlying macros are hard to gatekeep (I can get butter for my coffee anywhere). Who are the stakeholders in "low carb"? Influencers? Sure, there are always going to be folks selling shovels, but the information on how to adhere to a low carb diet is freely available, and fat/protein macro foods readily available and fungible (I agree you'll have a slightly more difficult time to adhere to low carb if you're vegetarian or vegan, but it can be done, my partner and I tried it for fun to see if we could). You can spend an inordinate amount for your keto lifestyle, but you can also spend modestly and still arrive at the same results (whether that be weight loss, maintenance of a healthy weight, or management of a condition that is exacerbated by high blood sugar levels). Eat properly ("abs are made in the kitchen", you can't work off excessive carbs consumption). Get enough sleep. Find time to exercise (high impact short duration cardio, weight lifting are best IMHO). These basics will contribute to a long, healthy life. I hope this is helpful to someone, anyone! I was obese from my early teens (pizza and Mountain Dew, sigh), and only in my 30s after much research and experimentation am now in the best shape of my life (healthy BMI, low mile time, targeting a powerlifting competition this year). Everything I learned was from free online resources (r/fitness, r/keto, r/intermittentfasting wikis and discussions), and most of our food purchased at Aldi and Costco. Sidenote: Keep in mind pricing is a signal. All of this information is free, and yet people still spend enormous amounts of money in aggregate on similar self-help materials with lesser results. Food for thought.

throwaway_tech 7y ago

The title is terrible, it should read ketosis/ketones may prevent, reverse age-related effects within the brain. "Low carb" as the title currently reads does not necessarily result in ketosis and your body/brain running on ketones, which appears to be the scope of this study. There is more to dietary ketosis than low carb, just as an example carnivore or paleo diets are low carb, but those will generally not result in ketosis, in protein rich diets your body will convert the protein to glucose which will continue to be the primary fuel for the cells in the brain/body. If you have never entered ketosis and experienced your brain running on ketones, I would suggest you experiment for yourself. I would say a minimum 2-3 months which should be enough time for your microbiome to change and your body/brain to adapt primarily running on ketones.

collyw 7y ago
I was about to ask if intermittent fasting would have the same effects as I get the impression that its a healthier way of getting into ketosis. (When I look, I don't see negative effects associated with IF, and I do with keto diets. The research changes a lot and the conclusions don't seem definitive, but I thought someone on here might have an educated opinion on the matter).
- cagenut 7y ago
  Your body goes into ketosis when it "runs out" of blood-sugar for long enough. It usually takes me 2 - 3 days of staying below 30 net grams (i'm a larger guy, for many people it requires going below 20). IF can be a part of that, in terms of helping you to control your eating and making the time-period at the end of those 2 - 3 days happen maybe a half-day sooner, but fundamentally it doesn't change carbs are carbs. Also you might find the relationship almost works the other way. Ketosis makes IF much easier. I haven't eaten breakfast in years. I don't even really consider that an IF regimen as much as like... once you get rid of the habit for a month or two you completely don't miss it and forget why you bothered.
- ypcx 7y ago
  In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels without also fasting intermittently. Intermittent fasting is key to enabling me to lower my caloric input because of the momentum of the fasting phase carried over into the eating phase, e.g. smaller stomach and more effective metabolism. I currently fast about 12 hours per day (including the sleep phase), which doesn't sound like much but with the lowered caloric input it's actually pretty good. I can go longer easily when the circumstances demand it, and after crossing 16 hours I actually stop experiencing hunger completely. I plan to extend the fasting periods in the future, if easy and convenient. As for whether ketosis is necessary - I believe I would not be able to fast intermittently without it, or at least not comfortably, which is necessary for any lifestyle change to be sustainable. I'm not aware of any negative effects of being in ketosis for prolonged periods of time, and quite the opposite. I don't crave sugary foods anymore, and I dislike anything with even a trace of sweetness. I was surprised to discover how good the body really is at detecting what food is good for it, once in ketosis. My main food sources currently are avocado, egg, tahini and drinks based on almond or walnut milk. I'm also using vitamin and mineral supplements, mostly in fluid forms. I'm 42 and I wish I had known about keto as early in my life as possible, not when I was forced to explore it due to declining health. Ketosis gives you a stable level of energy through the day and allows you to fully focus on life and the tasks at hand.

tejohnso 7y ago

Noted that the underlying cause for the improvement comes from ketones. This should indicate that intermittent fasting would also show similar results. Low carb diet, keto diet, intermittent fasting, they're all just different ways to switch the fuel source from glucose to ketones.

newscracker 7y ago
Would a time restricted feeding type of intermittent fasting, with a 16/8 schedule, really result in the production of ketones? I thought that it would take about a day and a half or longer to exhaust carbs and start the switch to ketones. Then it’s only the longer fasts (like 5/2 days) that could help.
- collyw 7y ago
  If you pee gets more yellow in that time period (I think) its indicative of ketosis. If anyone is more knowledgeable than me please chime in.
  - p0sixlang 7y ago
    I.. don't think that's true at all. Ketones in your urine is indicative of ketosis. Smell of alcohol on breath is indicative of ketosis. Urine color is not an indicator for ketosis, it's an indicator for hydration.
    - eatmyshorts 7y ago
      You are correct. Urine color is an indicator of hydration. But sugar in your urine will cause your urine to be cloudy and more opaque. I've noticed that when I'm in ketosis that my urine is super transparent (just looking at transparency/opaqueness, not at color).
- tejohnso 7y ago
  I'm no expert, but from my vast knowledge gained through the internet[1], it seems that ketosis starts at around the 12 hour mark. But I think it would depend on how glucose saturated you already are. [1] I like Dr. Berg's videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwOreYDPCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwOreYDPCM and anything from Peter Attia https://peterattiamd.com/ https://peterattiamd.com/

jaybeeayyy 7y ago

Not sure if I believe all the hype about these wild benefits low carb/keto diets have but I will say I've felt so much better on it...I rarely feel tired anymore and have been weirdly healthy the last 2 years. My doctor was surprised with my blood tests and weight loss when she heard what I eat lol. I'd never go back to the amount of carbs I was eating.

thekingofh 7y ago
How do you start? I can't seem to find a consistent diet plan that isn't insanely difficult to get into.
- cgh 7y ago
  Drop all starchy carbs and replace with meat, eggs and vegetables. It’s not rocket science.
  - riku_iki 7y ago
    You need to add some butter, oil and heavy cream, or chances are you are not in ketosis: 80% of you calories intake should come from fat to guarantee ketosis.
    - TheSpiciestDev 7y ago
      Pecans and other high-fat nuts are great for snacking, too.
    - hanniabu 7y ago
      Olive oil. Lots of olive oil.
      - wtetzner 7y ago
        Yep. But you're probably better off cooking with something like coconut oil, and just pouring the olive oil on your food.

uptownfunk 7y ago

IF has really saved my life. I definitely feel like i reverse aged a few years as a result of it. I enjoy food more now, weight is in check, I look younger.. hard to beat the benefits.

fokinsean 7y ago
What's your regimen? Do you restrict what kinds of food you eat? What about alcohol? I've been interested in starting it.
- uptownfunk 7y ago
  Mostly plant based (occasional pizza or gelato maybe once a month), I do alternate day fasting, something like 40:8, fast 40 hours eat for 8.. try to avoid night eating, it makes me feel worse the next day.. maybe a bit much for some but I feel so much stronger as a result. Low caffeine.. probably too much fake meat/soy products for my own good..
  - fokinsean 7y ago
    Oh wow that's an intense fasting schedule (at least to me)! I've been trying to be consistent about 16:8 during the week. Weekends usually mess me up due to alcohol... I've noticed feeling more tired this year and am exploring ways to fight it. Maybe I need to kick down the caffeine as well.
    - uptownfunk 7y ago
      Since I’ve started fasting it’s hard for me to sleep past 4-5am, which is nice because at least in my culture, it’s supposed to be a good time to get up and meditate and think.. it’s not so intense but I don’t do intense physical activity, maybe 30 minutes of ashtanga yoga a day..
eatmyshorts 7y ago
As it turns out, insulin resistance, like that associated with type-2 diabetes, is also related to inflammation (apparently due to cytokines: https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/inflammation-and-diabetes https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/inflammation-and-diabetes), which in turn is correlated with heart disease. As I understand it (disclaimer: I'm not a doctor), the inflammation results in damage to the blood vessels, which your body repairs by using cholesterol, among other things, that are in your blood. When LDL cholesterol (the "bad" kind of cholesterol) is used in this way, it calcifies over time, leading to hardening of the arteries. As someone with a high CAC score and premature calcification of my arteries, my doctors have advised me to move to a low-carb diet and combine that with statin drugs to lower my LDL cholesterol. Low carbs generally means lots of meat and lots of saturated fat, which is the opposite advice that doctors traditionally have given for patients at risk of heart disease. Lately there have been lots of studies that show that dietary LDL cholesterol is only very loosely correlated with LDL cholesterol in your blood--primarily because the cholesterol in your blood is produced in your pancreas, not ingested/absorbed from your stomach. So I did a self experiment--go on a ketosis diet for 3 months before I started taking my statins and test to see if my LDL cholesterol changed. It didn't--it went slightly down in my case. Then I went on statins--now my LDL cholesterol is at "normal" levels. So, basically as I understand it, low carb diets can help prevent your body damaging your arteries in the first place, such that they don't need repair. Then, the statins lower my LDL cholesterol such that when my arteries do need repair, the cholesterol that is used doesn't calcify over time. Basically I'm attempting to address my heart disease from both sides: prevent the damage in the first place, and remove calcifying LDL cholesterol from my bloodstream when arterial repair is necessary. Note that this is all pretty cutting edge stuff, and we don't have good studies to demonstrate its effectiveness yet. If you have issues with calcification of your arteries, it is best to work with your doctor to find a program that works for you.

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togs 7y ago

I’m confused because I thought the brain liked sugars: “The bold implication of this idea is that the effects of ego depletion could be undone by ingesting glucose, and Baumeister and his colleagues have confirmed this hypothesis in several experiments.” Kahneman, D. “Thinking, Fast and Slow”. 2011. pg. 43, para. 2, Se. 5.

mikeklaas 7y ago
Ego Depletion is junk science which hasn't reproduced in serious experiments.
wigl 7y ago
Ego depletion was one of the key losers of the replication crisis in psych. Book was published right before the peak of the crisis. Basically it's impossible because the body can't even digest the glucose in time for the purported effect. Baumeister is also a hack who refuses to let go of the idea while others have moved on. changelog: key example -> key losers

5cott0 7y ago

I still don't understand the tech bro fascination with disordered eating.

hoka-one-one 7y ago
Many of us suffer from autism or anxiety or some other mental issue and hope to cure it with some strange diet. That's why despite being some of the most intelligent people on the internet people here will latch on to some singular model of human metabolism that's being promoted by the Russians or the Chinese right now (kidding, but only partly) and use it to justify a new "experiment". Imposter syndrome fits in there. I didn't feel like I was good at my job or any of the things people think I'm good at, so I wanted to be this jack of all trades mad scientist character who uses himself as a guinea pig. Inevitably the low confidence leads to latching onto pseudoscientific theories -- it's a vicious cycle. Others feel out of control of their lives and try to feel some sense of control through disordered eating (looking at you, "fasting"). I don't think I was really in this camp but I know people who are.
- rofo1 7y ago
  What the hell did I just read. Intermittent fasting works. Talk to people that can show you results. Enough with the "theory". I've heard many theories from obese people and it's always bullshit. Everyone can find far fetched theories for anything on this planet. That's why results talk. You know how they say "money talks"? Same here: results talk. I, on the other hand, can tell you what works 100%, based on results (like 8% bodyfat, in very good shape): Eat clean food, exercise daily, eat in 6-8 hours per day. Don't eat too many calories in total. Do this for some time and I guarantee you will see effects. It only takes will and it's not rocket science. Most bodybuilders that I see are people that are just, you know, dumb. And they can do it. So I promise you it's not complicated or anything. So I don't know what's stopping people from doing it.
  - 5cott0 7y ago
    Intermittent Fasting is an eating disorder. Ketosis (unless you are an epileptic) is an eating disorder.

florin0x01 7y ago

How about weight training and low carb and sometimes IF? Would weight training prevent age related effects within the brain? Also you can't go full keto if you also want weight training, imo.

wtetzner 7y ago
> Also you can't go full keto if you also want weight training, imo. You absolutely can, and people are doing it just fine. Check out Metabolic Autophagy: https://www.amazon.com/Metabolic-Autophagy-Intermittent-Resistance-Longevity/dp/1790686393/ https://www.amazon.com/Metabolic-Autophagy-Intermittent-Resi...
- tokamak-teapot 7y ago
  Yep working fine here on ‘full’ keto (not sure what other kind there is) Depends what you want from your weight training. I enjoy it but I’m not trying to get massive gains.
  - florin0x01 7y ago
    Can you detail on this and what type of training you do? Also what type of gains you experienced? Sure you can do full keto and weight train but I am interested in the gains versus low carb / medium carb diets. As for me, I'm on a low carb diet mostly, although I do enjoy some days of high carb as well.
    - tokamak-teapot 7y ago
      I’ve recently restarted weight training after a few years off due to injury. I already do plenty of other exercise (martial arts, swimming, yoga, a decent amount of fast paced walking, circuit training) and I used to weight train so my form’s okay and I haven’t experienced anything unusual in terms of soreness. I’ve been from light weights (~70% of my previous max) slowly up to my previous max from a few years back and not experienced any problems. I feel like I’m close to the limit on each exercise but I’m already at my previous max weights. And... since I used to do this, I’ve gone keto. So being on keto doesn’t seem to have any observable negative effect on my weight training. I can’t say what I’m going to hit because I’m moving slowly and carefully. For some real stats you’ll need to find studies. I could just be lucky.

sebastianconcpt 7y ago

“The bad news is that we see the first signs of brain aging much earlier than was previously thought. However, the good news is that we may be able to prevent or reverse these effects with diet, mitigating the impact of encroaching hypometabolism by exchanging glucose for ketones as fuel for neurons.” The alternation with ketosis as source of energy is key as it seems... The brain’s response to diet was tested in two ways. The first was holistic, comparing brain network stability after participants had spent one week on a standard (unrestricted) vs. low carb (for example: meat or fish with salad, but no sugar, grains, rice, starchy vegetables) diet. In a standard diet, the primary fuel metabolized is glucose, whereas in a low-carb diet, the primary fuel metabolized is ketones. However, there might have been other differences between diets driving the observed effects. Therefore, to isolate glucose vs. ketones as the crucial difference between the diets, an independent set of participants was scanned before and after drinking a small dose of glucose on one day, and ketones on the other, where the two fuels were individually weight-dosed and calorically matched. The results replicated, showing that the differences between the diets could be attributed to the type of fuel they provide to the brain.

crad 7y ago

This is the first time I've seen something reference ingesting or drinking ketones. While I imagine it doesn't have the dietary benefit for losing fat, if this is a thing, and it's safe, I'm surprised it's not made it's way into energy drinks.

crad 7y ago
And it has: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ketones+drink&va=z&t=hk&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ketones+drink&va=z&t=hk&ia=web Probably should have searched first :)
- arafa 7y ago
  These are ketone ester drinks, but nothing really mainstream or in energy drinks. Esters are far too expensive and the taste far too bad for that. Most people have never even heard of these, in my experience.
arafa 7y ago
I have a fair amount of experience with ketone esters and did some research. They taste terrible, but not as bad as I expected and definitely wasn't a deal breaker for me. I got more used to it over time. They're great for fueling from fat instead of glycogen, especially during exercise, (was very helpful for not having to down a ton of gels during a marathon) and not very helpful for weight loss (as you suggest).

nickbauman 7y ago

A lot of folks here are using the term "intermittent fasting". This is a term that can make people struggling with eating disorders kinda lose their minds. May suggest to replace this term with what's probably a better way of saying it anyway, because it's more accurate to what people are really doing when they say IF: Call it "time-restricted eating". You're eating the food you eat for a day in a smaller window. Not really fasting.

lukifer 7y ago
There is some correlation between the benefits of "time-restricted eating" and full-blown fasting (autophagy, etc), so it makes some sense to talk about them similarly. There are many benefits to full water fasts, even for 2-3 days (and it's much easier to do successfully if one is already in ketosis). See the work of Dr. Jason Fung: https://thefastingmethod.com/ https://thefastingmethod.com/
- nickbauman 7y ago
  While we're at it: "Intermittent fasting" versus ... fasting until you die? All fasting is intermittent. IF just doesn't communicate anything regardless. I think it's clear it's just a bad term. Time restricted eating actually describes something specific.
  - lukifer 7y ago
    Haha, point. To the extent that the term still applies, "periodic fasting" would be more accurate; but then, that could just as easily refer to yearly fasting during Ramadan. Does one describe the action, or the absence of action? The norm, or the exception? I dunno, language is a funny thing. :)
rofo1 7y ago
> This is a term that can make people struggling with eating disorders kinda lose their minds. Maybe focus on the actual thing and not policing speech?
ghostbrainalpha 7y ago

specialist 7y ago

What is the current, best thinking on managing LDL, especially while doing paleo? I got huge benefits from paleo and partial calorie restriction. The biggest being my very bad psoriasis all but disappeared. But it also spiked my LDL. The statins didn't agree with me. I settled on eating every kind of soluble fiber I can find. eg: My morning porridge is steel cut oats, quinoa, chia seeds. I also resumed eating high(est) fiber rice. Alas, all these seeds and grains have carbs. I'd like to find strategies for high soluble fiber while reducing carbs. Even better, would be managing LDL directly. PS- I spotted u/eatmyshorts comments about LDL and misc.

bad_user 7y ago

I have been on Keto for about 8 months, felt terrible and interrupted the diet, only to later find that a lot of the theory behind it (the CIM model) is complete bullshit. And whenever seeing claims of the effects of low carb or keto diets, most claims are confounded by the diet being hypocaloric, or with a significant variance in protein when compared with control, with its proponents constantly shifting the goal posts. This study seems interesting and it has been known that ketosis can help epileptics. But take it with a grain of salt ;-)

dennis_jeeves 7y ago
What exactly did you eat, and in what quantities? List all that you ate, if possible. Unfortunately keto has such a broad definition that a lot of harmful stuff (like seed oils) can be considered part of the diet.

hoka-one-one 7y ago

Is it too much to ask that anyone promoting low-carb based on personal experience post bloodwork? I think it's pretty clear no one on here is well-versed in nutrition as we're all programmers, so maybe it'd be good to have some intellectual integrity. I'm interested in prolactin, thyroid, liver, cholesterol, CO2.

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MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
I wanted to get bloodwork done to get some hard data, but I'm not sure which data points are the most important ones. Cholesterol and liver I understand, why prolactin, thyroid and CO2?
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lhl 7y ago
I've gone through several thousand papers the past year or two so I feel like I'm more well-versed in nutrition than most nutritionists/dieticians at this point, certainly in my understanding the recent clinical/research literature. I rarely post any nutritional/health related statements without citations to peer-reviewed work (see: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lhl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lhl ) I think most people don't publish labs because they view it as personal, but I did a write-up last year, which includes (IMO) basically all my relevant markers: https://randomfoo.net/2019/09/17/1-year-personal-health-intervention-summary https://randomfoo.net/2019/09/17/1-year-personal-health-inte... A very strange set of lab markers you're interested in btw - prolactin has very little clinical value for men (and is almost never tested), but I tested my testosterone at the one year mark (it's fine, 772ng/dL, I have not sequential tests). I had a thyroid panel last year as well and TSH, FT3, and FT4 were all in range. My CO2 has stayed the same regardless of diet - I don't know why that would be relevant at all. For people looking to track their metabolic health, the bloodwork I think is most useful to track over time: CMP, CBC w/ diff, basic lipid panel (fasted 12h), A1c, fasting insulin, Vitamin D, hsCRP. I also was getting a full iron panel, and it was interesting to see my ferritin remained elevated last year (but is within range now - likely a marker of resolving MetS). The thing that almost no one gets measured that is almost criminal IMO is fasting insulin - while it's highly mobile, it's also dirt cheap ($8 more than FBG+A1c direct-to-consumer price), allows calculating the best IR indices, and is a 10-15y leading indicator for chronic metabolic disease. At home, waist circumference to height ratio (WHtR, WSR) is the best simple marker for tracking metabolic health. Ashwell, Margaret, and Sigrid Gibson. “Waist-to-Height Ratio as an Indicator of ‘Early Health Risk’: Simpler and More Predictive than Using a ‘Matrix’ Based on BMI and Waist Circumference.” BMJ Open 6, no. 3 (March 14, 2016). https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2015-010159 https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2015-010159.

ggffryuuj 7y ago

Well here I am again. Here are things I think people should know: Gluconeogenisis does not kick you out of ketosis nor is it’s existence a counter-point to the keto diet. I have first hand experience with keto and psychosis. I experienced something traumatic a while ago and began to have psychotic symptoms similar to schizophrenia. I had read an article beforehand written by a doctor claiming that keto benefited his psych patients, so I tried it. It cured me. Most symptoms gone in a couple days, total remission within a couple weeks. So PSA: if you or someone you know is having problems with psychotic mental health problems, keto may help you. And I should add I was formally diagnosed with psychosis and prescribed antipsychotics. And the symptoms correlated perfectly with going on and off keto. Very little ambiguity. They are doing a study on this in Finland but results won’t be out till December.

thenayr 7y ago

I suffer from an inflammatory disorder and chronic TMD. I wrote my experience of switching to Keto here (this was 2.5 months in, I've stayed fairly strict Keto for nearly 2 years now) - https://medium.com/@iamnayr/2-5-months-on-the-ketogenic-diet-how-keto-has-impacted-my-life-fca8e9adb790 https://medium.com/@iamnayr/2-5-months-on-the-ketogenic-diet...

nikkwong 7y ago

I don't really understand the briefing here; so would taking exogenous ketones also help mirror the beneficial effects of ketosis seen in this study? They did mention feeding their participants exogenous ketones but didn't say anything about those peoples' carb/fat ratios. I'm all for jumping on the high fat/low carb diet; however, I love getting all my polyphenols and other beneficial compounds that are part and parcel with eating plants (higher carb). As many benefits we see from being in ketosis, we also have tons of data on the health benefits of eating plants, so I've been confused as to how to get the best of both worlds here.

projektfu 7y ago
There are studies looking at this question.

Munky-Necan 7y ago

I think the prevailing theory will eventually be that a diet rich in monosaccharides is detrimental to health. It's been demonstrated that low carb, high meat diets are not the optimal diet, in that most adults will eat red meat or some type of processed meat and little fiber. Both add to the numerator when looking at myocardial infarction, stroke, and colorectal cancer. When one is in kidney failure it is recommended by the American Society of Nephrologists to attenuate protein derived from animal products. Essentially, balance is what the current recommendations say, but also to stay completely away from sugar. All my sources shamelessly stolen from Uptodate: > U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and U.S. Department of Agriculture. 2015 – 2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans. 8th Edition. December 2015. Available at http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/ http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/ >Carbohydrate quality and human health: a series of systematic reviews and meta-analyses. Reynolds A, Mann J, Cummings J, Winter N, Mete E, Te Morenga. Lancet. >Changes in diet and lifestyle and long-term weight gain in women and men. Mozaffarian D, Hao T, Rimm EB, Willett WC, Hu FB. N Engl J Med. >Meta-analysis of the association between whole grain intake and coronary heart disease risk. Tang G, Wang D, Long J, Yang F, Si L. Am J Cardiol. 2015;115(5):625. Epub 2014 Dec 18.

cloverich 7y ago
I miss my up to date access. Tangential -- I do not think people realize a resource like UpToDate exists. Well written up to date summaries of various medical topics based on the latest research. Were something like this to be publicly accessible it would do wonders. If anyone is working on or wants to work on this type of problem please let me know, I'd love to help out (programmer, former MD).

zwaps 7y ago

I am a bit conflicted. According to the comments, one should do very low carb diet to adapt to Ketones as energy. For example, fasting would not be enough for this purpose. But that implies the need for a ketogenic diet. Very low carb diets are difficult to do, at least if you are not very rich: Most of them require a lot of meat. Now, that differs by country. These diets are probably easiest to do in the USA with its huge industrial meat industry. In other countries, like here in Europe, you'd probably need to be a millionaire to buy that much meat in the first place. I don't know anyone doing this successfully. But in any case: is it ethical? I doubt that this would be sustainable for everyone. If everyone would eat mostly red meat, we'd probably roast our planet pretty quickly. I don't think free range farming would support 7 billion carnivores, nor would the fish in the sea. I realize the people doing Low Carb are not necessarily the same who care about sustainability. But if there is such a benefit to Ketogenic diets - for all our sakes - we should think about what happens if everyone wants to do it. Of course there are options. There are low carb Vegans (e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo/), but boy is it a chore to do. Also, I doubt this can be done with anything resembling local and unprocessed products. Furthermore, a lot of vegan protein products are high in soy. Which is fine really for any amount you'd normally consume. But if you are serious about low carb, you might eat so much that we get into that "questionable" range in terms of recent research. Perhaps carbs need not be too low. Yeah we can eat a lot of veggies, probably. But it'll be a challenge, I think. Or not? Say, you eat meat once a week. How do you do a ketogenic diet without losing your mind in planning etc?

nightvoomer 7y ago
There are two things being conflated, eating cheap keto and eating vegan keto. Cheap keto its eating tons of eggs, berries, cauliflower, zuchinni and soy beans. Eggs are really the main thing though...tons and tons of eggs. Luckily there are hundreds of different ways to make them.

durpleDrank 7y ago

I love carbs.

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5cott0 7y ago

What's the point of living forever if you're miserable and worn out all the time from managing oddly unnatural longevity diet regimes?

chriselles 7y ago

I’ve been on a keto diet almost exclusively for over 2 years now. Results have been very impressive for me. Not just in weight management, but also for fitness/performance. Anecdotally, cognitive performance/output feels like I’ve moved the needle in the right direction. Not sure if related, but multiple tests on telomere measurement(associated with cellular ageing) show “genetic age” well below my chronological age. Despite all of this, I really don’t know. The low carb and no sugar diet really seems to work for me. If I had to guess, I’d say there is no single overwhelming factor to increasing longevity. I think brain health is a mix of: Healthy nutrition Hydration Fitness/activity level Sufficient sleep Low stress(but not no stress) Purpose People in your life Traumatic brain injury prevention Life long education Reading as a hobby No smoking But in terms of mental agility(if not brain aging), I have a feeling that some low level of hunger is a positive indicator of short term mental agility. I reckon there’s a high performance zone for brain health/performance for both short-term and long-term. I look forward to more quantifiable research in this space. Just my amateur 0.02c

econcon 7y ago

1. Dietary cholesterol is only weakly correlated to blood cholesterol. 2. Most people eat wayy too much. Calories are calories, consume less calories and run your body in calorie deficit if you wanna lose weight and surplus if you wanna gain weight. 3. LDL aka bad cholesterol might not be that bad. There are some new studies which claim that people who had low LDL suffered more from heart issues. What gives? 4. People who eat more sometimes do so to comfort themselves (they've deeper psychological issues), they'll benefit from eating less. 5. Polysaturated fats are good fats, monosaturated fats are bad fats. 6. Carbs are not bad, consuming too much carb is bad for you. Want to lose weight? Reduce your calorie intake (preferably dinner). Reduce feeding window, do not eat after 7pm, eat only after 10am. 7. Lift weight and perform cardio. That's your current nutritional knowledge. Want to increase muscles? Much better to start from skinny state and consume protein, workout and slowly build lean mass through progressive overload. Eat more protein will not build muscle faster, body will only use what it needs, not what's given Most guys/gals on fitness YouTube channels and magnize have achieved that physique through use of drugs. So do not compare yourself to them and be disappointed.

smallcharleston 7y ago

The reason I refuse to read about keto is that pretty much all doctors and public health organizations I’ve seen recommend basically the same things: whole grains, fruits, vegetables, replace saturated fats with unsaturated if possible, low fat dairy, nuts, legumes, fish, some poultry sometimes, strictly controlled alcohol. Until these guys start recommending something such as keto my basic assumption is that it’s either a weird fringe diet or a diet only applicable to very specific medical issues (eg seizures) that me (not a medical professional) should not try on myself. If I go to a doctor and they ask how my diet is and I tell them I eat the stuff I listed above, I’m fairly certain they will tell me good job. If I do some extreme fringe thing, I doubt it will be their response with the same likelihood (though a few probably like it). This is just my personal opinion.

dot1x 7y ago

I've been on Keto for 2 months now but I hardly lost any weight. I'm wondering if my protein intake is too high.