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Depending on how this is implemented, this could actually be a step in the right direction. Lots of apps already send "promotional" push notifications (includin

Depending on how this is implemented, this could actually be a step in the right direction. Lots of apps already send "promotional" push notifications (including big names like Lyft and Uber). The only way to turn them off was to turn off all notifications, which meant missing actual important updates. If this change means being able to opt-out of one without losing the other, I'm all for it.

Flockster 7y ago
If Runtastics reminders to start exercising again also fall under this category, I'm all for it.
- glenneroo 7y ago
  Funny I have had the opposite complaint of not getting any more reminders after the 1st month... since roughly 2 years.. and across different Android devices. They even have a setting for reminders and what time they should occur. I reported the bug multiple times and left reviews but the problem remains. I ended up resorting to cluttering up my Google Calendar with daily reminders.
viraptor 7y ago
This seems to work pretty well even when not enforced on Android: https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels There are some bad apps which will abuse it and use only one category for the important things and ads. But mostly - it's ok. Enforcing a channel for ads would be even better.
- wjnc 7y ago
  Don't enforce things if on average they already work. You don't know the second order effects. Currently developers have to balance spamminess versus people opting out completely, which probably diminishes future use of the app. That's a nice informal balance. Formalizing it may lead to much more spamminess since hey, you can always opt out.
- ajscanlan 7y ago
  Yeah this works really well on Android, I'm surprised Apple hasn't taken a similar approach. You don't want ads from Uber but still want a push when your ride arrives? Just block the ads channel in settings. As you said I'm sure there's some bad apps out there that only have one channel, but I haven't noticed any. The big apps seem to support this quite well.
a_imho 7y ago
Interestingly I interpret the article as apps were abusing push notifications without a second thought in the past when it was explicitly against the guidelines, I fail to see how they will self moderate now some of it is even allowed. With the ample data we have so far it most probably will lead to dark UI patterns with dysfunctional opt-outs and/or blanket consents at most if someone takes it seriously at all.
- amelius 7y ago
  Then these apps would be removed from the app store, I suppose.
  - a_imho 7y ago
    It is wishful thinking. I can recall no case when someone said we should spam less ads or do it in a more respectful manner. These apps could have been removed long ago, per the guidelines.
  - fmajid 7y ago
    Apple's enforcement of the app store rules is sporadic at best, specially the widespread abuse of notifications for marketing.
    - rekoil 7y ago
      But perhaps the reason they have been so lax in enforcing that particular rule is because they know they are doing it themselves in their own apps, and didn't want to attract lawsuits? If so, now that they are introducing this new functionality they might start looking more carefully at notification system abuse.
      - solarkraft 7y ago
        They don't seem to concerned about lawsuits, considering the advantages their own apps get on the platform. They seem to enforce the guidelines purely based on politics (whether the publisher has friends at Apple and how important the app is to the ecosystem). I do wish they'd be legally bound to treat everyone the same way (EU?).
duxup 7y ago
I kind of like the all or nothing approach as far as "annoy me and I'll uninstall your app" goes. Now the potential loss for the app maker for being annoying is far lower.
- wilde 7y ago
  This assumes that there are competitors who don’t spam you. For taxi apps, you have no choice since all entrants do this.
rolltiide 7y ago
This level of granularity would be great for the contacts permission. I don’t let any app get my contacts or my phone number anymore. They are too greedy with mine and others now. If I could choose a subset of my social graph based on context I would.
bgrainger 7y ago
You can keep the "ride is here" notifications in Lyft but turn the ads off by going to: Menu > Settings > Privacy > Notifications Preferences > Discounts and News : Off For Uber, it's similar: Menu > Settings > Privacy > Notifications > Discounts and News > Off A built-in/centralized way in iOS to accomplish this (that's more discoverable) would be much better.
- wool_gather 7y ago
  > A built-in/centralized way in iOS to accomplish this That would rely on the senders tagging the pushes correctly, as "ad" vs. "not-ad", which would ultimately fall back to App Store review enforcement anyways.
SilasX 7y ago
I don’t understand why this would make any difference regarding their ability to abuse push notifications for ads.
david-cako 7y ago
Probably also adjusts delivery priority and improves battery life. Apple’s APIs are really good about exposing specific use-cases as separate functions and enums.

Flockster 7y ago

If Runtastics reminders to start exercising again also fall under this category, I'm all for it.

glenneroo 7y ago
Funny I have had the opposite complaint of not getting any more reminders after the 1st month... since roughly 2 years.. and across different Android devices. They even have a setting for reminders and what time they should occur. I reported the bug multiple times and left reviews but the problem remains. I ended up resorting to cluttering up my Google Calendar with daily reminders.

viraptor 7y ago

This seems to work pretty well even when not enforced on Android: https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels https://developer.android.com/training/notify-user/channels There are some bad apps which will abuse it and use only one category for the important things and ads. But mostly - it's ok. Enforcing a channel for ads would be even better.

wjnc 7y ago
Don't enforce things if on average they already work. You don't know the second order effects. Currently developers have to balance spamminess versus people opting out completely, which probably diminishes future use of the app. That's a nice informal balance. Formalizing it may lead to much more spamminess since hey, you can always opt out.
ajscanlan 7y ago
Yeah this works really well on Android, I'm surprised Apple hasn't taken a similar approach. You don't want ads from Uber but still want a push when your ride arrives? Just block the ads channel in settings. As you said I'm sure there's some bad apps out there that only have one channel, but I haven't noticed any. The big apps seem to support this quite well.

a_imho 7y ago

Interestingly I interpret the article as apps were abusing push notifications without a second thought in the past when it was explicitly against the guidelines, I fail to see how they will self moderate now some of it is even allowed. With the ample data we have so far it most probably will lead to dark UI patterns with dysfunctional opt-outs and/or blanket consents at most if someone takes it seriously at all.

amelius 7y ago
Then these apps would be removed from the app store, I suppose.
- a_imho 7y ago
  It is wishful thinking. I can recall no case when someone said we should spam less ads or do it in a more respectful manner. These apps could have been removed long ago, per the guidelines.
- fmajid 7y ago
  Apple's enforcement of the app store rules is sporadic at best, specially the widespread abuse of notifications for marketing.
  - rekoil 7y ago
    But perhaps the reason they have been so lax in enforcing that particular rule is because they know they are doing it themselves in their own apps, and didn't want to attract lawsuits? If so, now that they are introducing this new functionality they might start looking more carefully at notification system abuse.
    - solarkraft 7y ago
      They don't seem to concerned about lawsuits, considering the advantages their own apps get on the platform. They seem to enforce the guidelines purely based on politics (whether the publisher has friends at Apple and how important the app is to the ecosystem). I do wish they'd be legally bound to treat everyone the same way (EU?).

duxup 7y ago

I kind of like the all or nothing approach as far as "annoy me and I'll uninstall your app" goes. Now the potential loss for the app maker for being annoying is far lower.

wilde 7y ago
This assumes that there are competitors who don’t spam you. For taxi apps, you have no choice since all entrants do this.

rolltiide 7y ago

This level of granularity would be great for the contacts permission. I don’t let any app get my contacts or my phone number anymore. They are too greedy with mine and others now. If I could choose a subset of my social graph based on context I would.

bgrainger 7y ago

You can keep the "ride is here" notifications in Lyft but turn the ads off by going to: Menu > Settings > Privacy > Notifications Preferences > Discounts and News : Off For Uber, it's similar: Menu > Settings > Privacy > Notifications > Discounts and News > Off A built-in/centralized way in iOS to accomplish this (that's more discoverable) would be much better.

wool_gather 7y ago
> A built-in/centralized way in iOS to accomplish this That would rely on the senders tagging the pushes correctly, as "ad" vs. "not-ad", which would ultimately fall back to App Store review enforcement anyways.

SilasX 7y ago

I don’t understand why this would make any difference regarding their ability to abuse push notifications for ads.

david-cako 7y ago

Probably also adjusts delivery priority and improves battery life. Apple’s APIs are really good about exposing specific use-cases as separate functions and enums.