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Calls to Cancel SXSW Intensify as Facebook, Twitter Pull Out, 30K Sign Petition
- mdorazio 7y agoThere’s so much money tied up in SXSW for the entire city that I’m sure there’s a ton of pressure to keep it on no matter what.
- marklacey 7y agoThey may be insured. However they may also have a large deductible and need to eat quite a few costs.
- luch 7y agomost insurance companies will play the "force majeure" card in order to exempt themselves from reimbursing clients. No insurance company is solvable against a global pandemic event.
- btilly 7y agoNo insurance company is solvable against a global pandemic event. Except Berkshire Hathaway: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-berkshire-buffett-insurance/buffett-says-berkshire-can-handle-400-billion-mega-catastrophe-idUSKCN1G80RA https://www.reuters.com/article/us-berkshire-buffett-insuran... If Warren Buffett himself survives, I expect to see his shareholder letter next year talking about how their losses notwithstanding, COVID-19 left Berkshire Hathaway in a stronger position relative to the rest of the insurance industry, and has improved their outlook for the future.
- jhayward 7y agoOnly a small number of very narrow segments of business benefit from SXSW - but they benefit a lot. The rest of Austin businesses, and Austinites, suffer degradation and losses. Ask any downtown business that's not in the lodging/entertainment industry.
- outside1234 7y agoIt's just irresponsible that SXSW and KubeCon (Amsterdam) have not canceled. There should be public shaming of the leaders of these large events.
- busterarm 7y agoI'm at a small ~500 attendee conference today and I'd say only about 2/3 of everyone bothered to show up. We're here in NYC where we just had our first covid19 cases. People are scared.
- ohmanjjj 7y agoGoing to Channel Partners in Vegas next week. Usually about 7000 attendees. Will be interesting
- Zenst 7y agoGiven we now have a media/news system that perpetuates such social drama and literally spread fear, then we often see fear itself do way more damage than the crux of the story itself. Imagine if we had a news/media blackout for a month - life would be so much better overall that you appreciate why so many just avoid social media, a label that is so far removed from the social aspect that it is literally fear/hate media platforms for the extremes in life, whatever side of the fence they sit.
- nonbirithm 7y agoNice as it would be to have such a blackout the media companies would complain to no end about lost profits. The incentives are totally misaligned. In my opinion, Fox and the AP are not really comparable in terms of quality. The former is for-profit, the latter is non-profit. "If it bleeds, it leads" is less viable when people rely on you writing the more undistilled version of a story to sell to others who put their own spin on it later. That's not to say there's no bias at all in such journalism, but I feel like the incentives greatly affect the content of the story. If people panicking leads to people watching more news, the news companies will let it happen. Besides, these people have to put food in the table somehow. Asking them to just stop working because their work is ethically compromised would raise various issues.
- tilolebo 7y agoIt is fear or common sense that actually make people avoid big gatherings during the pandemic of an unknown virus? It might actually just be public-spiritedness.
- wpietri 7y agoI was honestly amazed to hear that it's still going on. Everybody knows that conferences are giant petri dishes. I know some people who just book time to get sick after a major conference. I'm sure that a ton of people have bet money on SXSW, of course, so doing the right global thing could be very painful personally. But I think that's exactly the kind of thing government should step in and solve. However bad not doing SXSW would be for the local economy, a pandemic would be way worse.
- wlesieutre 7y ago> Everybody knows that conferences are giant petri dishes. I know some people who just book time to get sick after a major conference. Common enough occurrence that it's been named "con-plague". Even in a good year it's almost expected to catch something at an event that brings so many people into close quarters.
- viewer5 7y ago"con crud" is how I've always heard it.
- asdfman123 7y agoConferences are all about cross-pollination. Sometimes it's ideas, sometimes it's serious illnesses.
- Seenso 7y ago> Conferences are all about cross-pollination. Sometimes it's ideas, sometimes it's serious illnesses. Just like open offices.
- MockObject 7y agoTen years ago > Each year at SXSW, you hear about "SXSW SARS" or "SXSW Scurvy." Days packed with panels, movies, and concerts are exhausting and wear down your immune system. Learn some ways in which you can prepare for, and stay clear of getting sick at SXSW. https://do512.com/events/2010/3/12/sxsw-sars https://do512.com/events/2010/3/12/sxsw-sars
- simplecto 7y agoThe sheer greed of SXSW will push this festival through no matter what. Talk to any Austinites running local businesses and they will tell you horror stories of code enforcement, law suits, and outright bullying from the SXSW brand.
- fortran77 7y agoIt may not be sheer greed. It may put them out of business forever.
- cliffy 7y agoShould we prioritize the survival of human beings over corporations?
- yoavm 7y agoI don't think that's what the parent comment is suggesting. Instead they're saying that it might not be greed in the sense of "wanting to make an extra 5% no matter what" but a lose-the-whole-business question. That's not to say it's not the right thing to do, but it does help to realize that the picture isn't so black and white.
- fortran77 7y agoNobody is being forced to go to SXSW, get sick, and die. This is simply about who foots the bill.
- simplecto 7y agoI would not be opposed for a little creative destruction in this case.
- heurist 7y agoI know of one coffee shop that closes to the public during SXSW and makes enough from private events to pay off their entire year's lease. Maybe an outlier but there is definitely a benefit for local small businesses.
- CPLX 7y agoWhile I think this is an interesting and important topic, and a complicated judgement call, I'm trying to figure out why a random internet poll is playing a serious role in the conversation.
- senordevnyc 7y agoAs a proxy for the sentiments of the hundreds of thousands of stakeholders (aka regular people) who don't have corporate PR departments to make their views known?
- CPLX 7y agoOr a proxy for a few hundred Austin residents who are annoyed by the traffic jams. Or as a proxy for bots representing a competing conference. Or who knows. That's kind of the problem with random internet polls.
- hugh4life 7y agoA bit OT, but the World Figure Skating Championships are being held in Montreal at about the exact same time as SXSW is suppose to be held(a couple weeks in mid-March). Which is fine by me. They're taking a lot of precautions but a lot of these people who attend these events come from east-asian countries... especially Japan. And they don't offer refunds on tickets which I think could result in quite a few people attending because of the "sunk cost" mentality that they don't want to lose what they paid for. Governments are extremely reluctant to restrict travel and thus event organizers too are reluctant to do much more if it affects how much money they make. I live nowhere near Montreal, but if I did I would lobby the local governments to see what can be done to reduce travel from the most affected countries.
- ritchiea 7y agoWhat does SXSW even do for the tech industry? Is it just advertising for companies and people peddling themselves as influencers?
- SpicyLemonZest 7y agoYes, but that’s not a particularly charitable way to look at it. It’s like the old world’s fairs - it’s a conference where everyone gathers to look at new stuff and say “whoa that’s cool”.
- thrav 7y agoTwitter launched at SXSW. The interactive conference is a lot of things, and was historically a great place to get many eager first movers trying your thing overnight.
- steveklabnik 7y agoRemember that SXSW is more than just tech. It is like three connected conferences: music, film, and "interactive" aka tech.
- michaelbuckbee 7y agoand gaming and comedy.
- philpem 7y agoThat's one heck of a broad church...!
- ritchiea 7y agoOh yea I agree, SXSW music & film are great. But as someone who’s been to SXSW I don’t understand the point of SXSW “interactive”. And in this article it’s talking about big tech companies backing out. Really what I’m saying is who cares if tech pulls out? Its the worst part of the conference. I can’t imagine anyone other than Austin beer & discount ice sculpture sellers would mind if SXSW interactive disappeared forever.
- gambiting 7y agoHow many people go to SXSW? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22464405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22464405 "HIMSS 2020, a conference of ~45000 attendees from 90+ countries is still scheduled to go forward at Orange County Convention Center Orlando March 9-13 - even as major participants withdraw from the event and Florida declares a state emergency."
- ericabiz 7y agoTotal attendance for 2019 was 417,400: https://explore.sxsw.com/hubfs/2019-SXSW-Event-Stats.pdf https://explore.sxsw.com/hubfs/2019-SXSW-Event-Stats.pdf (PDF) I do think these stats may double-count some people, but there's no doubt it's a gigantic conference. It's much larger than most people realize.
- michaelbuckbee 7y agoThat may double count some people, but it also under/fails to count the sheer number of people that just "come into town" for the parties, networking, and nonofficial events.
- creaghpatr 7y agoAlso, 45 is a speaker at the conference; they usually get 42 or 43 for the keynote most years: https://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/president-donald-trump-set-speak-himss20 https://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/president-donald-trump...
- whoisjuan 7y agoHoly shit. 417K. That's crazy.
- CPLX 7y agoI have to figure that a huge chunk of that is people who already live in Austin buying tickets to film screenings or wristbands to see live music. The number of people with actual conference badges has to be a small fraction of that.
- sixothree 7y ago
- gkoberger 7y agoI tried to cancel (citing concerns not about myself, but Austin), and got this response. The last line putting it on me felt odd. --- Hello, Thank you for reaching out to us. We understand your concerns. We recognize the disruption that the Coronavirus (COVID-19) has caused, and we sympathize with all affected. Safety is a top priority for SXSW. We are working closely with local, state, and federal agencies to plan for a safe event. The SXSW 2020 event is proceeding as planned. The World Health Organization’s recommendation is that travelers practice usual precautions. We will continue to monitor the situation closely and will provide updates as necessary. Please also see the City of Austin’s Public Health Reminders from February 6, February 14, and February 25, and their COVID-19 FAQ, updated February 28. We have a no refund policy as part of our terms and conditions, so we are unable to reimburse you for your purchase. However, you can transfer your registration to another person. We hope to see you at SXSW 2020, but understand that the decision to attend is yours to make.
- gkoberger 7y agoUPDATE: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/sxsw-canceled-coronavirus https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/sxsw-canc...
- philpem 7y agoI've seen very similar form letters from other conventions. Largely they all lean on each other -- "they don't offer refunds so neither will we" -- but the bigger factor is that the convention probably doesn't have the money to refund people. Most fan-run conventions run on a barely-above-breakeven budget at the best of times. I'm not intending this as an excuse, merely an explanation for people who may not have been involved in the organisation of a convention, or been close to people who have. With that perspective in mind, I find it hard to blame them. A wave of panicked attendees demanding refunds could well render them insolvent.
- gkoberger 7y agoI do agree money is the reason, for both sxsw and (actually more importantly) Austin. I wouldn't call sxsw a "fan-run convention" or "breakeven", and they certainly have insurance. Austin likely is the bigger issue... it brings them a ton of money every year.
- ausjke 7y agoSXSW organizers should be sued by the city if any outbreaks caused by this stupid must-have event.
- detaro 7y agoThe city that has the power to force the event to cancel due to a health emergency?
- dublin 7y agoAustin's city government is famously unresponsive to its citizens, viz the city's "CodeNext" building code reforms that are roundly hated by hippies, environmentalists, businesspeople, homeowners, and liberals and conservatives alike. Worse, SxSW pretty much calls the tune the Mayor and City Council dance to. They'll allow SouthBy to go ahead, and the deadly fallout won't be evident for another month or two.
- ausjke 7y agohttps://ourtownaustin.org/sign-the-recall-petition/ https://ourtownaustin.org/sign-the-recall-petition/ Austin city mayor and 5 council members are recalled since last Oct.
- biggieshellz 7y agoNot to get off topic, but the building code reforms are necessary in order to help control the ridiculous rises in housing prices and rents here. We have the same problem as California, where neighborhood associations want to freeze things as they were 50 years ago, and use restrictive zoning and deed restrictions to prevent building multi-family housing (duplexes/fourplexes/apartments). The city government is plenty responsive to its citizens, ~55% of whom are renters, not homeowners, and many of whom are young people who can no longer afford to buy in the city. The already-haves in legacy neighborhoods, who file most of the protests and speak in front of the City Council the most, are mad that they are being given equal consideration rather than special consideration as they have gotten in the past.
- eganist 7y agoTheir unwillingness to cancel points to a deeper problem, and I don't think that problem is greed. I'm convinced it's an insurance restriction. Anyone know SXSW's umbrella insurance provider?
- jaworrom 7y agoI just got word that the Adobe Summit 2020 conference I was set to attend has been canceled. I believe the event had ~17,000 attendees last year, which is but a fraction of the SXSW attendance. Most of the attendees are based in the US too...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- karlding 7y agoAdobe Summit 2020's cancellation was also discussed on HN yesterday [0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22470462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22470462
- fortran77 7y agoThese get canceled because employers don't want the liability if they require attendance at a conference and a person gets very ill. The majority of people at SXSW are there for recreational/personal reasons and are not directed to go there from an employer.
- dvtrn 7y agoExcept, you know...for the people working local venues and establishments during SXSW, right?
- michaelt 7y agoI think it's that employees who get flown to $1000-a-ticket conferences by their employers get treated better by their employers than food service workers.
- dvtrn 7y agoI wholly understand that, I'm speaking directly to the employees who live and work in Austin and very likely wont have their shifts cancelled like those $1000-ticket holders would (speaking from experience). Sorry, somehow I keep forgetting that trying to bring up the fact that there are classes of people not making software engineer money that would be just as affected by some of the hypotheticals on HN is a no-no.
- alexandercrohde 7y agoOne established possibility is that corona won't be contained. With 2009 H1N1 outbreak it spread quickly, eventually to an estimated 11 to 21% of the global population. H1N1 turned out to be much milder than initially feared, causing little more than runny noses and coughs in most people. And H1N1 is now so commonplace, it's simply seen as a part of the seasonal flus that come and go every year among the global population. If you're of this school of thought, then the panic may seem a bit much. [1] https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/03/02/how-is-the-coronavirus-outbreak-going-to-end-heres-how-similar-epidemics-played-out/ https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/03/02/how-is-the-coron...
- ianlevesque 7y agoSure, but at this point it’s also one of the strains the yearly vaccine covers. The situation will change dramatically when a vaccine becomes available. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2019-2020.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2019-2020.htm
- brogrammernot 7y agoExcept there’s enough cases now that show that isn’t the case. The H1N1 was more “mild” than the speculation but COVId-19 isn’t. H1N1 also managed to be starved out more or less, but so far that doesn’t seem to be a real possibility for COVID-19. If the olympics are being considered to be postponed, and tons of large conferences have already been canceled paired with companies stopping all international travel & discouraging domestic travel that’s more than enough evidence that the right thing to do is cancel your event. The thing that a lot of folks seem to be missing is as a healthy, young adult you’re probably going to be fine if you get it and take care of yourself. With a longer incubation period than H1N1 though, you’re more likely to spread it to others who may be immunocompromised or at risk if they get it. That’s the risk with a conference, you can end up infecting many folks who infect other folks leading to high death rates. The only way you don’t do that is you start to make the hard but right decisions to cancel events. China acted very quickly with quarantines outside of Wuhan, which is why the numbers are not growing at the same rate it was previously. There will surely be a second spike with spring break & other travels in the spring as China re-opens more areas but this isn’t going away, it’s only going to stay at the same rate or get worse over the next 6-8 weeks.
- crazygringo 7y agoI can understand why people want refunds (it's not their fault), but also understand why SXSW may find it financially impossible to cancel (it's not their fault either). To be honest, this is the type of call that ought to be made by governments, not individually by private citizens/organizations. Either all conferences nationwide should be cancelled, or none, but that's not a decision any can make individually. If this is a national emergency, let's take national responsibility and share the burden nationally. Have the government shut down conferences, if that's the right call, and use tax dollars to reimburse the conference organizers to a reasonable level, that they are also forced to use to reimburse attendees to a reasonable level. Really, how is this any different from flooding or hurricane damage that gets federal money to rebuild? A national emergency is a national emergency, period.
- lgats 7y agoReally shouldn't conferences be paying for insurance against X?
- crazygringo 7y agoYes but this kind of thing generally falls under "act of god" which you simply cannot buy insurance against. Now I'd be curious to see SXSW's actual insurance policy, but honestly I don't believe there's anything available they could possibly have done to protect against this.
- mongol 7y agoForce majeure. If that would not be in insurance agreements then every insurance company in the world could go broke in case of a pandemic.
- ipnon 7y ago"Hundreds of thousands flock to Austin for the event each year and its economic impact to the City of Austin was $355.9 million in 2019, according to an analysis by Greyhill Advisors and South by Southwest." If it looks like a recession and sounds like a recession ... It's amazing how rapidly confidence in the economy can evaporate.
- durpleDrank 7y agoWhy aren't people covering their mouths and washing their hands?! I see so many people on the metro behave so carelessly.
- lma21 7y agoI also wonder why KubeCon EU haven’t cancelled their conference in Amsterdam happening next month as well..
- cbsks 7y ago> "The pressure to cancel SXSW over coronavirus concerns intensified this week with Twitter and Facebook issuing corporate travel bans including the gathering" Can anyone from Twitter or Facebook comment about what travel ban their employer has implemented? I work for a smaller tech company which has cancelled all international travel, and implemented a 14 day quarantine (i.e. mandatory work from home) for any employees returning from abroad. But we don't have any restrictions on traveling domestically.
- pcmaffey 7y agoWhat about sporting events? 20k people gathering every night in cities all around the country. Are the NBA, NHL, NCAA just going to cancel playoffs? Or play in front of empty stadiums?
- creaghpatr 7y agoI heard the Final Four is considering contingency plans, but at this point that's just due diligence.
- Dirlewanger 7y agoNot comparable. SXSW increases Austin's size by almost 50% for a couple days. With that said, the event generally doesn't have a large international presence/component to it, so I think the worry is excessive.
- vorpalhex 7y agoI often times saw my foreign coworkers when they flew in for SXSW. Many people fly in from foreign countries for it.
- munchbunny 7y agoIt's probably wiser to cancel/delay games. The leagues and teams aren't going to go bankrupt, and knowing how hard coronavirus is to contain, limiting massive gatherings like conferences, concerts, sporting events, etc. in the next few weeks seems like the wise thing to do.
- RandomBacon 7y agoDoes anyone have details on the XFL? The league just restarted, so financially it could be on the edge. I really like the games so far, so I hope they can continue.
- mongol 7y agoIf the situation escalates, I would not be surprised if playing in front of empty stadiums will be what happens. I guess it will depend on if loss of TV money will outweigh loss of ticket money or the other way around.
- btilly 7y agoBy contrast here is what a small conference is doing right now: https://www.cesmii.org/cesmii-2020-annual-meeting/ https://www.cesmii.org/cesmii-2020-annual-meeting/ Doing this at the current time is a little premature to be so worried, but the general idea is sensible.
- Mvandenbergh 7y agoIf the event is cancelled by the city or other government body there is probably event insurance which is triggered which can pay for refunds. Events like this, even ones with lots of sponsorship and corporate interest, do not usually have high margins. As a result, any cash they have right now is needed to pay their suppliers. I doubt they have money to refund more than a fraction of tickets. The responsible thing is for the local government to cancel it. Ideally SXSW would make this decision but ultimately they are not public health experts.
- stevespang 7y ago. . . "Safety is a top priority for SXSW". Bullshit. Loss of revenue is the top priority for SXSW. The only way to teach them a lesson is for large organizations to publicly announce BOYCOTT's of SXSW.
- nikolay 7y agoMoney before people - nothing new under the sun!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- MockObject 7y agoNobody goes to SXSW anymore, it's too crowded these days.
- naveen99 7y agoMaybe we should cancel large gatherings every flu season.