10 ms·
Better Business Bureau rejects Molekule’s air purifier claims
- eth0up 7y agoIn my view, the BBB has become an extortion agency. A business can essentially commit serial murder and maintain an A+, so long as they pay their dues. There are many reputable and fine businesses with low BBB ratings, simply because they refuse to pay for accreditation. An A+ from the BBB, should in my opinion, be a stigma as easily as a credential. It is not always so, but it is a problem.
- fortran77 7y agoPossibly true, but this is not related to the point of the article.
- eth0up 7y agoI'll go as far as to agree with commenter PragmaticPulp, but not entirely that the integrity of the BBB is unrelated here. Edited to add: I have had extensive interaction with the BBB regarding real, genuine product safety issues, which encompassed misleading advertising and due to the indifference of the BBB, led to an FTC report and more.
- 1123581321 7y agoPlease read the article. This concerns NAD, a division of BBB that arbitrates trade disputes before they go to the FTC. It has nothing to do with the accreditation sales teams. Information on NAD here: https://bbbprograms.org/programs/nad/nad-contact-us https://bbbprograms.org/programs/nad/nad-contact-us
- BubRoss 7y agoThe better business bureau is not an authority in the same way that a government regulations body is.
- fortran77 7y agoTrue, but this isn't the point of Wirecutter's article.
- jjeaff 7y ago>Highlights include Molekule’s position that its claims weren’t referring to the Molekule purifier itself—weren’t referring to the product it was selling—but rather were referring only to the underlying PECO “and other” technology. In fact, Molekule based many of its claims on tests of prototypes, or of the PECO filter alone Seems like we have a mini-theranos on our hands. To make claims in your sales material about you PECO technology filtering VOCs then claim you weren't talking about the product itself is beyond scummy.
- Waterluvian 7y agoI had no idea the BBB did this kind of thing. I thought it was only the regulatory bodies and Consumer Reports.
- iudqnolq 7y agoIf you're being harmed by false advertising as a competitor you can pay them $10,000-35,000 to look into it and issue one of these.
- PragmaticPulp 7y agoI expect a lot of people will focus on the problematic BBB in the comments here, but it's important to focus on the core problem: Molekule's marketing claims have been debunked from the start. Their massive social media advertising campaigns have fed a lot of misinformation to a lot of people since their launch. It's amazing how many people I know who confidently recommend Molekule air filters as superior technology based on nothing more than having seen their Instagram ads. Molekule has secured media puff pieces from several influential media outlets as well as several print publications, none of whom seem to have done the slightest amount of testing to verify their claims. Both Wirecutter and Consumer Reports actually tested the Molekule and found the performance to be abysmal. Wirecutter went so far as to declare it the worst air purifier they've ever tested: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-air-purifier/#molekule-the-worst-air-purifier-weve-ever-tested https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-air-purifier/#molekul... The product just plain does not work, and their marketing material appears to be pure lies. I hope they see some consequences for this. Perhaps the worst part is that the underlying PECO technology is potentially promising as an adjunct to a traditional HEPA filter. Instead, the Molekule company has gone all-in in their anti-HEPA marketing strategy, creating a false dichotomy for marketing hype instead of trying to create an evolution of the standard HEPA filter.
- fortran77 7y agoIn general, you can't "purify air" without passing all the air in the room through a filter every "n" minutes, and maintaining some sort of barrier for outside air, like a pressurized room so air won't flow in naturally. Any little filter that you can stand in the corner can't do much to clean the air in the room. It may remove some large items like pet dander. A good filter in an HVAC system may do a little bit, but those are mainly to protect the HVAC system from gunk. This has always been a fertile area for scams, like the air filter that caused the demise of the Sharper Image, once it was established that it caused dangerous ozone levels.
- naravara 7y agoI think you’re taking the term “purify” too literally. These are just filters meant to reduce the concentrations of dust and other particulates. Nobody is expecting to create like, a microprocessor clean room with these.
- hedora 7y agoIf you’re looking for an air purifier, the Honeywell HPA300 ($200) is more than enough four our three bedroom house (despite the 465sq ft rating). I want to be able to recommend the Bissell Air400, as it is quieter, has a built in PM 2.5 meter, auto adjusts to pollutants, and the filter works at least as well. Unfortunately, it randomly turns itself off. This seems to be a design flaw, as many other people report the same thing. Also, it doesn’t seem to use a PID control loop to set fan speed, so the automatic speed controller sets itself far too low for our house. On the bright side, it is frequently on sale for 50%+ off, since it has a terrible reputation. In practice, I leave the honeywell on, and use the bissell if there’s a problem (cooking smoke, allergies, wildfires, etc). In tandem, the two are able to lower PM 2.5 by over 90%, which is more than enough for fire season. Edit: In hindsight, I would have bought the HPA 300, and a standalone sensor like the ones from purple air.
- betterworldb 7y agoDo you have something that measures the PM level?
- ilamont 7y agoThe BBB's NAD program didn't conduct these tests this because of ordinary people questioning the claims, it's doing it because another business demanded it (and paid for it). When it comes to dealing with consumer complaints, the BBB's goal is to make its members look good and keep them out of civil lawsuits, regulatory investigations, and media reports. They want to minimize damage to paying members, and will do things like removing bad reviews from its websites (this personally happened to me). If you have some time check out the CNN report into the BBB (especially "These companies got A+ ratings?"): https://money.cnn.com/news/companies/bbb-ratings/ https://money.cnn.com/news/companies/bbb-ratings/
- Shivetya 7y agoHey I am all for the industry voluntarily policing itself. Reading further into the article reveals that is action is warranted but not followed up on that NAD will refer the issue to the FTC who has the force of law behind it if they find in agreement with the assessment.
- prostoalex 7y agoConsumer Reports also ended up with "avoid" rating for Molekule. Most of their reviews are behind the paywall, but they did publish a blog post and gave the company a platform to object https://www.consumerreports.org/air-purifiers/molekule-air-purifier-review/ https://www.consumerreports.org/air-purifiers/molekule-air-p... They still ended up including Molekule in their list of 3 worst https://www.consumerreports.org/air-purifiers/best-air-purifiers-of-the-year/ https://www.consumerreports.org/air-purifiers/best-air-purif...
- johnzim 7y agoSo annoyed I bought one of these based on testimonials from people I trust (podcasters with allergies). I haven’t seen a significant improvement over a regular HEPA filter. At least it looks cool and has a HEPA filter at the base. It just doesn’t move that much air.
- iudqnolq 7y agoBe aware that according to the original Wirecutter tests on low mode it's significantly worse than doing nothing (filters ~6% of smoke particles vs ~15% that would have settled out if the fan inside wasn't disturbing the air), and it's significantly worse than $100 filters on high mode (filtering ~60% vs ~90% of smoke particles)
- adrr 7y agoPodcasters are always paid for these product reviews. This is out of the playbook for all DTC companies. I'd recommend and support consumer reports. If you're not paying for a review, more than likely it's paid for by a company. Even review sites that look like they are ad supported and independent are controlled by these D2C brands. Eg: Casper owns Sleepopolis. https://www.vox.com/2017/9/23/13153814/casper-sleepopolis-lawsuits-mattress-reviews https://www.vox.com/2017/9/23/13153814/casper-sleepopolis-la...
- coleca 7y agoWonder how many podcasters will stop raving about how the Molekule changed their life. Probably none.
- hkeide 7y agoSame here. I even did my research, but in retrospect it turns out a lot of their TrustPilot reviews are obvious fakes. I'm now trying to return it but I'm being ignored by customer service. Time to get a chargeback I guess. Any other avenues to get a refund? What a bunch of charlatans. It must be pretty heartbreaking working for a company like this. https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.molekule.com https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.molekule.com Edit: btw, the offgassing is bad enough that I wouldn't use this anywhere where people breathe the air. Who knows what this weird offgassing contains. Who ever heard of an air filter that does offgassing?
- alephnan 7y agoI’ve been seeing ads by Molekule and their cofounder attacking a review by Wirecutter, arguing Wirecutter lacked the technical adequacy to review the product https://youtube.com/watch?v=sAuZok410V4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=sAuZok410V4
- masklinn 7y agoAh yes, "it doesn't filter out your dust particules because you're not properly dusting your particules!"
- williesleg 7y agoJust face it we're all gonna die.
- subpixel 7y agoOk, how can we get them to do the same for Berkey filters, manufactured by New Millennium Concepts? I used these for years before realizing I had fallen for their shuck and jive. Backstory: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/big-berkey-water-filter-system/ https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/big-berkey-water-filter-sy...
- TeMPOraL 7y ago> Founders say they’re “very confident that this technology will destroy Coronavirus” I would love if this led to some serious legal consequences. This is creating danger to the public.
- jekroo0nnd 7y agoYeah here’s the best idea: let’s fetishize more bespoke gadgets as a localized band aid and avoid discussing why people feel like they need these things in the first place. Bravo, humanity. You’re so against collective sacrifice of extreme consumerism, you’ll consume yourself into environmental collapse. Dumbest species on the planet.
- gregd 7y ago"And the unit’s always-on blue glow—which indicates when its primary PECO filter is in operation—can disrupt sleep. (You can’t physically block the glow with a coin or tape, because doing so would block the Molekule’s delivery of air.)" I'm not sure when this trend of putting blue lights on devices meant to be put in a bedroom started, or when it will end, but for me, this could be the best filter on the market (it's not) and I would still not purchase it based on the blue light. I have a Winix Air Purifier I bought from Costco in my bedroom and while it has blue lights, they auto-shutoff in a darkened room. There is one blue indicator on the faceplate that stays on, but I remedied that with a piece of eletrical tape.
- sn_master 7y agoMy Honeywell purifier has a button to turn off the blue LED lights.
- masklinn 7y ago> I'm not sure when this trend of putting blue lights on devices meant to be put in a bedroom started, or when it will end Running them so obnoxiously bright as well. I once bought a USB plug I could almost read by, it was ridiculous.
- unholythree 7y agoI’ve changed out the super high intensity blue LEDs on my computers for amber 30 MCD ones. I don’t sleep in the room with them, but if I have someone crash on my couch they don’t have search lights blinking at them all night. They’re plenty bright to see in daylight, and personally I like the retro charm.
- pkaye 7y agoThere are these decals you can buy on Amazon that fully or partially block out the light. They come in a sheet with varying shapes and sizes.
- ThePhysicist 7y agoI always thought that the Internet with its „collective wisdom“ would make it more difficult to sell snake oil to unwary consumer, but now I think the opposite is true. It’s crazy how many pseudo-scientific gadgets are hyped up by social media these days. Here in Germany we have startups like “Mitte” that wants to sell “personalized water” produced using smart purifiers and some rather sketchy marketing (https://mitte.co https://mitte.co). They were really successful on Kickstarter (where else) but seem to be in financial trouble now. Maybe that’s not surprising since Germany (like many European countries) has really good drinking water, so apart from making the water softer by removing calcium carbonate (which is also only a problem in some regions) there’s really not much you can do to improve a basic product like water. I wonder what’s next after air and water though...
- alephnan 7y ago> "collective wisdom“ would make it more difficult to sell snake oil to unwary consumer, but now I think the opposite is true. Check out the Fyre Festival documentaries
- aeternum 7y agoI don't think it is fair to use kickstarter as a basis. Information is much easier to attain with the internet. The issue with kickstarter is people buy into the hype without anyone having an actual product to test. Most people know they are taking a risk and funding a potential idea rather than an actual product.
- NoblePublius 7y agoYou can make an air purifier as good as molekule with a $15 box fan, $3 20x20 air filter, and four pieces of duct tape. Come at me.
- Marsymars 7y agoThat sounds notably better than molekule. You can make an air purifier as good as molekule with a fan, a piece of duct tape, and an LED.
- say_it_as_it_is 7y agoBBB has zero credibility
- tyfon 7y agoTo me this looks almost criminal but I don't know advertising laws in the US. In my country you can't claim you are best in something without substantial evidence to back it up. Most just write "one of the best" to avoid having to prove it although that statement in itself has to have some evidence backing it. In any case I have a general rule. If you need to advertise your product it sucks. If you have a quality product you will sell based on word of mouth of early adopters. The first example that comes to mind is Tesla which spends zero on marketing. So for me, if I'm looking to buy a certain item and I see an ad for something in that category it will be the last manufacturer that I consider. This isn't always true but so far this rule of thumb has held up for me pretty well.
- harryh 7y agoTesla spent $70 million on marketing in 2018. https://ir.tesla.com/node/19496/html https://ir.tesla.com/node/19496/html "Marketing, promotional and advertising costs are expensed as incurred and are included as an element of selling, general and administrative expense in the consolidated statement of operations. We incurred marketing, promotional and advertising costs of $70.0 million, $66.5 million and $48.0 million in the years ended December 31, 2018, 2017 and 2016, respectively."
- tyfon 7y agoOk, not quite zero but close to it. I've never seen a banner ad or tv ad for tesla outside of their stores. I suspect most of this cost is banners and such in their stores and video production for their youtube channel. Maybe they also count reveal event. In any case it pales in comparison to let's say Wv who spends between 5 and 6 billion each year [1]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/286537/volkswagen-advertising-spending-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/286537/volkswagen-advert...
- adrr 7y agoComparing a company that sells 10 million+ cars a year to a company that sells 500k cars.
- dehrmann 7y agoI somehow missed that this air filter exists, but taking an existing, boring product category (air filters, mattresses, razors, toothbrushes, edit: cigarettes), giving it a design makeover, and following through with marketing on social media and podcasts, seems to be a path straight to the wallets of millennials.
- sorokod 7y agoA spelling error in their name was the first clue.
- masklinn 7y agoHow do you know you could benefit from or should get an air purifier (one that works I guess, not Molekule's)? They're not ultra expensive but they're not super cheap either, and it feels a bit like a first world problem.
- wasdfff 7y agoMake one yourself one with a box fan by taping a cheap hepa filter from home depot taped to the back. It will outperform everything in this market, only it will look a little ugly.
- prostoalex 7y agoIt's a no-brainer for people with asthma or those susceptible to allergies. The rest depends on your sensitivity to decreases in air quality. Regularly changing a filter in your central AC/heating system is probably enough.
- Marsymars 7y agoI got one because of wildfire smoke and pollen allergies. I wouldn't bother if I didn't have visible symptoms that could be alleviate by a purifier.
- fortran77 7y agoThey're still coming very close to saying misleading things on their website: (Source: https://molekule.com/technology https://molekule.com/technology ) > "Developed over two decades by research scientists, PECO is an innovative technology that utilizes free radicals—the same radicals used to destroy cancer cells—to break down pollutants at a molecular level, including VOCs, bacteria, mold, viruses, and allergens. By using nanotechnology, PECO is able to destroy pollutants 1000 times smaller than what traditional HEPA technology was designed to trap." Basically they may be using "PECO" filters, but there's no guarantee a little fan in a cylinder blowing though a PECO filter in the corner of your room will actually significantly clean the air. And they hint that it cures cancer!
- Youden 7y agoIt's not just Molekule, consumer air quality products in general are full of dubious junk. This study [0] fairly comprehensively compared the Foobot air quality monitor to a research-grade sensor setup and found that it severely underestimated the temperature (one of the easiest things to get right in my experience), underestimated tVOC, had low correlation on its CO2 output (i.e. the CO2 output was pure garbage) and overestimated PM2.5. I wish this was unique to Foobot. The problem seems to be that these companies take a bunch of cheap, low-quality sensors (e.g. using inferred CO2 rather than an NDIR sensor or saving cost by not properly calibrating the sensors), put them in a premium-looking (and priced) package and market them as if they were premium products, because consumers won't know any better. The worst part is that high-quality sensors really aren't that expensive. A bundle of Sensirion tVOC, CO2, RH/T and particulate sensors can be had for under $200 and with proper calibration they work great. Hook them to an ESP32 or something and put them in a case and you've basically got a Foobot. [0]: https://www.j-sens-sens-syst.net/7/373/2018/ https://www.j-sens-sens-syst.net/7/373/2018/
- Jam-B 7y agoWhile I am not defending Molekule, both the BBB and Consumer Reports act based upon money generated from competitive companies. They are not unbiased, and have found to be biased on multiple occasions.
- m0zg 7y agoInstagram is full of this bullshit. I routinely get dog food ads that advertise that their dog food has "vegetables" in it. Why the fuck would a carnivore need "vegetables"?
- Xcelerate 7y agoThere seem to be quite a few air purifier startups. I was reading about one called Mila recently — does anyone know if they are legit? I currently have a cheap air purifier in my apartment, but with concerns about both wildfire season and viruses, I would like to get a nicer one.
- bobblywobbles 7y agoIt's a good thing I didn't buy one of these, and instead opted for a Coway.