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Probably the most surprising thing for you: Go is getting generics. No exact timeline, but it's happening for Go 2.0. Rust is seeing production use in many pla

Probably the most surprising thing for you: Go is getting generics. No exact timeline, but it's happening for Go 2.0. Rust is seeing production use in many places and its being accepted more as the sane alternative to C for modern development of high performance software. Ecosystem still not big or mature enough to make big waves, however, but that depends on how you interpret "big waves". SPAs are used and abused, the tooling to make a performant progressive website with them has gotten better but the know-how is not widespread enough. React has essentially won the mindshare battle and they are focusing more on functional components. But there are other things with their own healthy niche like Svelte compiling components that manage their own DOM, Elm is still around (and still not 1.0) and it has inspired other "Elmish" frameworks. Desktop software quality has gone downhill and seemingly everyone is using Electron. For many companies, Kubernetes is the new normal mode of operation. You should know it, but it's still far from "the way to do things" for industry in general, mostly due to its complexity and learning curve.

melling 7y ago
How popular is React? I haven’t done much web development in several years myself. Typescript is mentioned a lot on HN. Saw ReasonML mentioned recently. Vue.js has a movie on the way. As far as Web frameworks go, what’s popular seems to change every couple years.
- snazz 7y ago
  React hasn’t lost any significant steam. You’re far more likely to get a job at a non-tech-centric company doing React today than you were.
- gen220 7y ago
  I think the reason React isn’t mentioned that much is because of how de facto its dominance has become. The smaller-community frameworks are mostly interesting because they’re not React (i.e. they purposefully target different scopes, niches). The de facto standard framework for component-oriented front end development has been React for a while now. Typescript (which you see mentioned) complements react, it isn’t a component framework that aims to replace it.
lohengramm 7y ago
Go getting generics is definitely surprising. I used to even argue in favor of Go the way it is. If there's one thing I got from these responses, is that I should look at Kubernetes. Thank you for your answer.
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  Haha yeah, I remember y’all going on and on about it. That’s when I realized how many syndromes there are in Stockholm
mrfusion 7y ago
Why kubertetes vs docker? And why rust vs D or golang ?
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  My God does Kubernetes sometimes feel like using a cannon to remove a zit.
  - NicoJuicy 7y ago
    I can agree on this :p
  - hanklazard 7y ago
    Ha! I realized this yesterday after considering it (very briefly) for a home lab deployment—I’m pretty sure I dodged a cannonball on that one.
    - dpacmittal 7y ago
      Docker-compose with nginx-proxy should work well for home labs.
      - OJFord 7y ago
        Until it's not just one machine. You might briefly then use Swarm... But does anyone for long, whether production or home? K8s has its complexities for sure, but to me it's the simplest - or at least 'only figure it out once' way of running multiple machines (besides having 'the webserver', 'the db server' etc., of course.)
        Aeolun 7y ago
        I feel like there should be a better thing than kubernetes. In theory it’s simple, but in practice it’s so convoluted!
      - hanklazard 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
analognoise 7y ago
"Rust is making waves!" Rust ranks lower than Delphi on TIOBE, isn't used in a single aerospace, defense, or critical application. Ada has been for almost 40 years, is backward compatible to Ada '83, and has a proof subset (SPARK). Those waves look more like pond ripples caused by a light breeze. How about, "Rust - now with bigger pond ripples."
- Kaze404 7y ago
  Didn't the comment you replied to say specifically the opposite of what you quoted?
- spion 7y ago
  If you take the time to read about it, you'll quickly realize TIOBE is pretty bad.
  - sandov 7y ago
    What index do you suggest instead?
    - spion 7y ago
      To start with, I would try to fix the list here https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defi... as well as adjust the query for programming-specific engines like GitHub. To have a programming language index not even consider github or stackoverflow as primary sources makes it a laughing stock IMO
scabarott 7y ago
>Rust is seeing production use in many places and its being accepted more as the sane alternative to C for modern development of high performance software Not quite there yet.
- swsieber 7y ago
  Not quite where yet? It's seeing lots (albeit quiet) of production adoption, and it's still growing.
  - faitswulff 7y ago
    Probably more of a compelling alternative to C++, and not as much so for C (yet), from what I've read so far.
    - scabarott 7y ago
      I'm not sure it's even a compelling alternative to C++ at this point. The borrow checker is sometimes unpredictable and hard to reason about and the language syntax is not always consistent. I think we will see more adoption in the future but there are reasons why it has not been adopted as much as one would have expected.
    - swsieber 7y ago
      Yes. Besides being distinctly more like C++ than C, there are other less complex languages (zig comes to mind) that are contending for that area.
  - downerending 7y ago
    Viewed from here, Rust has far less penetration than Python did in (say) 1995. I see more Julia than Rust, for example. Whatever its benefits, Rust remains quite obscure for now.
27182818284 7y ago
>React has essentially won the mindshare Casually job hunting right now, and it is insane how much React has won to me. Like I knew it was popular, but it seems like it has an outright monopoly with the remaining 5% of market share being split among all the other alternatives. I don't know what the actual market shares are, but when looking at open positions around the US from coast to coast, it seems to have won.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > I don't know what the actual market shares are, but when looking at open positions around the US from coast to coast, it seems to have won. React is currently in it's honey-moon phase, but many of its warts are starting to show. It probably has another year or two before peaking, but doubtful that such a large heavy-handed library will remain dominant forever.
  - ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
    Honeymoon phase was like in 2015. Were way past that today. Also doubtful? What about Java?
pottertheotter 7y ago
>React has essentially won the mindshare battle I'm looking to learn a front-end framework and had a few people recommend Vue. Sounds like maybe I should go for React instead? In case it matters, I'm not looking to be a front-end developer. I'd mainly like to improve some small projects I have. And get the most value out of my time learning a framework.
- andrewzah 7y ago
  As a backend developer who makes frontends for his projects, I enjoy Svelte. I found React to be quite complex when I tried learning it last year. I’d use vue if not for svelte, probably.
  - physicles 7y ago
    I'm in the same boat, and also love Svelte and wish it success. Svelte's reactivity was also something we had in Splash, the Microsoft-internal UI framework that was used to build the Zune desktop app and Windows Phone 7/8. I haven't enjoyed building UI since then, but with Svelte I can finally enjoy frontend development again.
  - leeman2016 7y ago
    Found svelte 3 after Rich's talk and managed to complete a production app using it. Found it not only a lot easier, but almost flawless.
  - elialbert 7y ago
    same here - using svelte in production and it rocks.
- jjcm 7y ago
  Depends on what kind of project you're doing. Vue is still great for smallish projects, but if you're looking to make yourself marketable React is the way to go. For future proofing yourself, it might be worth looking into webcomponents as well. Likely there wont be anything built using them directly, but there are a bunch of new frontend frameworks that utilize them (stencil for instance). Next gen frameworks will highly likely take advantage of shadowroots and other parts of the spec under the hood, so it might be worth understanding that stuff now. TL;DR For resume building + career growth -> learn react For quick and dirty side project -> use vue For future proof / bleeding edge understanding -> use webcommponents
aganame 7y ago
Kubernetes is the thing everyone will be moving away from in the next 5 years because it was too complicated for their purposes. The unfortunate ones that don't manage to move from it will be maintaining 5 year old kubernetes installations.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > Kubernetes is the thing everyone will be moving away from in the next 5 years because it was too complicated for their purposes. Kubernetes solves a huge variety of problems with a single platform. In five years, Kubernetes will still be around, but there will be layers built on top of it that simplify common use-cases.
  - aganame 7y ago
    Oh, it'll be around, that's for sure. Like Cobol.
  - ProZsolt 7y ago
    Kubernetes solves a huge variety of problems, as well as introduce new ones. Kubernetes is great if you need a scalable infrastructure, but currently, every mom and pop shop wants to ride the Kubernetes train. The main problem comes when something breaks and building another abstraction layer on top of it won't help.

melling 7y ago

How popular is React? I haven’t done much web development in several years myself. Typescript is mentioned a lot on HN. Saw ReasonML mentioned recently. Vue.js has a movie on the way. As far as Web frameworks go, what’s popular seems to change every couple years.

snazz 7y ago
React hasn’t lost any significant steam. You’re far more likely to get a job at a non-tech-centric company doing React today than you were.
gen220 7y ago
I think the reason React isn’t mentioned that much is because of how de facto its dominance has become. The smaller-community frameworks are mostly interesting because they’re not React (i.e. they purposefully target different scopes, niches). The de facto standard framework for component-oriented front end development has been React for a while now. Typescript (which you see mentioned) complements react, it isn’t a component framework that aims to replace it.

lohengramm 7y ago

Go getting generics is definitely surprising. I used to even argue in favor of Go the way it is. If there's one thing I got from these responses, is that I should look at Kubernetes. Thank you for your answer.

ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
Haha yeah, I remember y’all going on and on about it. That’s when I realized how many syndromes there are in Stockholm

mrfusion 7y ago

Why kubertetes vs docker? And why rust vs D or golang ?

JamesBarney 7y ago
My God does Kubernetes sometimes feel like using a cannon to remove a zit.
- NicoJuicy 7y ago
  I can agree on this :p
- hanklazard 7y ago
  Ha! I realized this yesterday after considering it (very briefly) for a home lab deployment—I’m pretty sure I dodged a cannonball on that one.
  - dpacmittal 7y ago
    Docker-compose with nginx-proxy should work well for home labs.
    - OJFord 7y ago
      Until it's not just one machine. You might briefly then use Swarm... But does anyone for long, whether production or home? K8s has its complexities for sure, but to me it's the simplest - or at least 'only figure it out once' way of running multiple machines (besides having 'the webserver', 'the db server' etc., of course.)
      - Aeolun 7y ago
        I feel like there should be a better thing than kubernetes. In theory it’s simple, but in practice it’s so convoluted!
    - hanklazard 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

analognoise 7y ago

"Rust is making waves!" Rust ranks lower than Delphi on TIOBE, isn't used in a single aerospace, defense, or critical application. Ada has been for almost 40 years, is backward compatible to Ada '83, and has a proof subset (SPARK). Those waves look more like pond ripples caused by a light breeze. How about, "Rust - now with bigger pond ripples."

Kaze404 7y ago
Didn't the comment you replied to say specifically the opposite of what you quoted?
spion 7y ago
If you take the time to read about it, you'll quickly realize TIOBE is pretty bad.
- sandov 7y ago
  What index do you suggest instead?
  - spion 7y ago
    To start with, I would try to fix the list here https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defi... as well as adjust the query for programming-specific engines like GitHub. To have a programming language index not even consider github or stackoverflow as primary sources makes it a laughing stock IMO

scabarott 7y ago

>Rust is seeing production use in many places and its being accepted more as the sane alternative to C for modern development of high performance software Not quite there yet.

swsieber 7y ago
Not quite where yet? It's seeing lots (albeit quiet) of production adoption, and it's still growing.
- faitswulff 7y ago
  Probably more of a compelling alternative to C++, and not as much so for C (yet), from what I've read so far.
  - scabarott 7y ago
    I'm not sure it's even a compelling alternative to C++ at this point. The borrow checker is sometimes unpredictable and hard to reason about and the language syntax is not always consistent. I think we will see more adoption in the future but there are reasons why it has not been adopted as much as one would have expected.
  - swsieber 7y ago
    Yes. Besides being distinctly more like C++ than C, there are other less complex languages (zig comes to mind) that are contending for that area.
- downerending 7y ago
  Viewed from here, Rust has far less penetration than Python did in (say) 1995. I see more Julia than Rust, for example. Whatever its benefits, Rust remains quite obscure for now.

27182818284 7y ago

>React has essentially won the mindshare Casually job hunting right now, and it is insane how much React has won to me. Like I knew it was popular, but it seems like it has an outright monopoly with the remaining 5% of market share being split among all the other alternatives. I don't know what the actual market shares are, but when looking at open positions around the US from coast to coast, it seems to have won.

speedplane 7y ago
> I don't know what the actual market shares are, but when looking at open positions around the US from coast to coast, it seems to have won. React is currently in it's honey-moon phase, but many of its warts are starting to show. It probably has another year or two before peaking, but doubtful that such a large heavy-handed library will remain dominant forever.
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  Honeymoon phase was like in 2015. Were way past that today. Also doubtful? What about Java?

pottertheotter 7y ago

>React has essentially won the mindshare battle I'm looking to learn a front-end framework and had a few people recommend Vue. Sounds like maybe I should go for React instead? In case it matters, I'm not looking to be a front-end developer. I'd mainly like to improve some small projects I have. And get the most value out of my time learning a framework.

andrewzah 7y ago
As a backend developer who makes frontends for his projects, I enjoy Svelte. I found React to be quite complex when I tried learning it last year. I’d use vue if not for svelte, probably.
- physicles 7y ago
  I'm in the same boat, and also love Svelte and wish it success. Svelte's reactivity was also something we had in Splash, the Microsoft-internal UI framework that was used to build the Zune desktop app and Windows Phone 7/8. I haven't enjoyed building UI since then, but with Svelte I can finally enjoy frontend development again.
- leeman2016 7y ago
  Found svelte 3 after Rich's talk and managed to complete a production app using it. Found it not only a lot easier, but almost flawless.
- elialbert 7y ago
  same here - using svelte in production and it rocks.
jjcm 7y ago
Depends on what kind of project you're doing. Vue is still great for smallish projects, but if you're looking to make yourself marketable React is the way to go. For future proofing yourself, it might be worth looking into webcomponents as well. Likely there wont be anything built using them directly, but there are a bunch of new frontend frameworks that utilize them (stencil for instance). Next gen frameworks will highly likely take advantage of shadowroots and other parts of the spec under the hood, so it might be worth understanding that stuff now. TL;DR For resume building + career growth -> learn react For quick and dirty side project -> use vue For future proof / bleeding edge understanding -> use webcommponents

aganame 7y ago

Kubernetes is the thing everyone will be moving away from in the next 5 years because it was too complicated for their purposes. The unfortunate ones that don't manage to move from it will be maintaining 5 year old kubernetes installations.

speedplane 7y ago
> Kubernetes is the thing everyone will be moving away from in the next 5 years because it was too complicated for their purposes. Kubernetes solves a huge variety of problems with a single platform. In five years, Kubernetes will still be around, but there will be layers built on top of it that simplify common use-cases.
- aganame 7y ago
  Oh, it'll be around, that's for sure. Like Cobol.
- ProZsolt 7y ago
  Kubernetes solves a huge variety of problems, as well as introduce new ones. Kubernetes is great if you need a scalable infrastructure, but currently, every mom and pop shop wants to ride the Kubernetes train. The main problem comes when something breaks and building another abstraction layer on top of it won't help.