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Secret’s founder returns with anti-loneliness app Ikaria

131 points by daddy_drank 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
peter_l_downs 7y ago
> “I don’t feel good about that. That sucks,” Chrys Bader-Wechseler reflects when asked about the bullying that went down on the anonymous app Secret he co-founded in 2013. After $35 million raised, 15 million users and a spectacular flame out two years later, the startup was dead. “Since I left Secret I feel alive and aligned with my values and my purpose again.” I wonder what his values and purpose are.
- randycupertino 7y ago
  > I wonder what his values and purpose are. Hopefully not using investor $$ to buy himself a ferrari, like his co-founder! https://nextshark.com/david-byttow-secret-founder-sells-prized-ferrari-after-having-to-shut-down-100-million-company/ https://nextshark.com/david-byttow-secret-founder-sells-priz...
  - kubmit 7y ago
    what the hell is the point of this statement? he didn't do that.
- wruza 7y ago
  To look forward, to hope for the best for everyone and to overcome the unforeseen. Idk who this guy is, but it is clear from the text that he is a startup entrepreneur.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > “Since I left Secret I feel alive and aligned with my values and my purpose again.” > I wonder what his values and purpose are. Few people know the founder and whether he's actually a good person or a fraud, but we do know that: he was the recipient of huge VC largess, created an app with shaky moral foundation that caused actual harm, and then shut it down after lots of bad publicity. Not reasons to totally discount a person, but good reasons to be skeptical.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- chrysb 7y ago
  Hi, This is a totally fair question. I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. When I designed and built Secret, it was based on an early community of people who were sharing things we'd never see on Facebook or anywhere else. I was touched by the vulnerable stories and conversations people were having. People would come to me and tell me Secret changed their life in positive ways. This is why I continued to work on it and believed that it was possible for it to do good in the world. Ever since I left Secret, those moments always stuck with me. And even to this day people reach out and tell me they miss Secret; what I hear is that people still have a need to share vulnerably. That's why I decided to lick my wounds and get back to work. Last August I hit a peak of loneliness after moving to LA, and using Instagram all the time. I felt like shit, like I wasn't enough, and I was really hard on myself and self critical. This led me to an emotional rock bottom. It wasn't until then that I demanded self love from myself and built myself back up emotionally, and it was that process that inspired me to help other who might feel like I did at that difficult point last August. Personally, some of my values are: — People are inherently good. I believe everyone has a story and their own challenges, and if they can feel heard, they can feel accepted and become a healthy and thriving individual. — Strangers are just friends waiting to happen. We can be quick to judge other people, but we should always bias to listening and to asking questions to better understand where people are coming from. — It starts with self love. If you can't accept yourself, how can you ever truly know how to accept anyone else? Usually when we reject others, it's because we reject something about ourselves. I learned this lesson the hard way, and hope to bring more self compassion to others. — It takes a village. Pursuing any mission in life is greater than any one person. When I built Secret, initially it was mostly my idea and I designed it myself. I think that's the exception to the rule. With what we're building now, we've received so much support that all I can do is empower and enable people to do what they love to bring this mission to life. — Leave it better than you found it. Whatever situation you're in, do what you can to make a little better. — Joy waits on the other side of fear. Often the things we are afraid of are gateways to self-discovery and fulfilling our potential. I could go on, but these are just some that come to mind now. You can read about the values of our company on our website at http://ikaria.co http://ikaria.co
hellotomyrars 7y ago
Incredibly vague statements parroting known talking points with 0 substance to show for it. I hate to be cynical but all this `tech to fix the social problems created by tech` really brings out the cynic in me. Realistically I know that we do need new solutions but the solution to a drinking problem isn't to deliver better, more mindful alcohol. Edit: To the comments below, I am not asserting that tech has actually created an entire new set of problems out of nothing, just that that is the narrative on display here and in other places. This is part of why it makes me so incredibly cynical.
- stickfigure 7y ago
  I agree with your evaluation of the article, but I'm tired of this "social problems created by tech" narrative. I grew up in the world before the internet. It was NOT better.
  - notlukesky 7y ago
    I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. Everything keeps getting better over time (measured in say decades) but the one constant we will always have is complaining. Yes there are always real problems and new ones are also created, but on the whole we are doing better in many matters.
    - kinleyd 7y ago
      Yes, I think the personal computer sucked in many people who previously would have idled their time elsewhere, having nothing better to do. It was often a life saver or at the very least a more productive use of time - for me it certainly was.
    - mnsc 7y ago
      > I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. That seem like a pretty hard to prove statement. Per definition those who were young in the olden-days of bullying are now old and not in the same situation where the bullying typically happens. I too remember the physical "real" bullying but one up-side of that is that the bullies couldn't get away with that much bullying since it was very visible and left physical traces. Also the extreme solution of relocating was available. Modern day bullies bullies in a very _real_ way (ask someone who is bullied) and it's harder to find a safe place and also harder to find and build a few strong meaningful friendships. Bullies find their way into your bedroom under your covers (phone lights up, "is it them?") and when every relation is visible and measured in likes and engagement good luck getting a friend that wants to connect with someone who is bullied and risk attracting the attention of the bullies. So what until today's young ones are old enough to tell you exactly how bad we fucked them up. Bring tissues. But maybe this app will fix them! Invest!
mjevans 7y ago
The root cause of this is pretty much entirely greed. Greed in the form of housing policies where that is used as a tool for investment, rather than an investment in the community. Greed in the form of a missing integration in to society and support for all who are in it to at least a basic level of guarantee. (Popular example, Star Trek utopia) Greed in the form of profits being squeezed upward rather than shared as prosperity for all. - If everyone had their own, quality (private, outside noises/smells/etc excluded by good design and build quality), living spaces nearer to each other that would be far better for the design of our cities and the environment. If everyone had a useful, non-broken-window, job and place where they added value to society, that would be better for everyone. If everyone needed to expend less and less of their day working as things got more efficient, we would have the time to actually exist as humans / intelligent emotional beings among Family, Friends, and those we don't yet know. - I really believe that if people were treated like people, and had the time to be better people, much of our social ills would sort out sooner rather than later.
- lopmotr 7y ago
  I live in New Zealand and most of what you say already exists. Yet we still have all the normal social ills. So I think that's proof you're wrong. > If everyone needed to expend less and less of their day working as things got more efficient We have that! Get an unskilled part time job and the government will give you a bit extra to pay the rent, and even more to support your children, etc. They'll also actively help you find work if you're unemployed. To remain unemployed here, you have to really put an effort in if you're not disabled. Personally, I have fairly high value skills and only use them part time, so I'm living your utopia. Most people with high earning capacity choose to earn more though. So the big problem for you is how do you limit the efforts of ambitious people to enforce this easy life on them?
  - mjevans 7y ago
    I think you have some of it, not all of it.
- platonicommune 7y ago
  time and time again i've read this flavor of communist rhetoric. time and time again, nothing changes and neither the reader nor the author is inspired to do anything differently after it's regurgitated. Yes, yes i'm sure if it wasn't for those greedy corporations we'd all have more time to run hedonistic treadmills, and our lives would be meaningful. what are you going to do about it, nerd? so save your comments for reddit, and i'll save mine for /dev/null. maybe dang will pipe this one for me!
Invictus0 7y ago
In my opinion, with regards to friendship, there is simply no substitute for an in person conversation. I happily drive 6 hours to see my best friends for a weekend; that's at least $70 in gas as well. FaceTime just isn't the same and I have a hard time imagining the people in my circle (the same type of people I would like to meet) spending their time trying to meet people on an app.
- Mediterraneo10 7y ago
  I also value in-person conversation. But my experience has increasingly been that my circle of friends is up for having dinner or whatever, but during the meal everyone is looking down at their phones and they only have half of their attention on the conversation. When your friends aren’t entirely present mentally, then even in-person meetups can make you feel lonely.
  - dannyw 7y ago
    Try to get your circle of friends more engaged and present if you can.
- wallacoloo 7y ago
  I spent an entire year living on my own, never inviting a single other person into my home and only entering the home of another person (save for immediate family, during holiday) once. Having chat apps made that experience much more bearable and actually did lead to a handful of real-world, albeit mostly long-distance, friendships (in that I host them in town for one week out of the year and they host me for one week out of the year). At this point, I think chat apps can improve things in some ways for some people. But that year alone mostly just made me hungry for more real face-to-face bonding. Apart from the people who are well-enough off to travel, but poor enough to have no friends, I’m not sure any chat app really has a place in your social life unless creating real-world friendships is one of its primary goals and it’s designed to actually achieve that effectively.
wyck 7y ago
Wow had a flashback to the web 2.0 bubble. They must be really convincing at sales to get funding for something they can't even explain, again.
garry 7y ago
I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here. I was early investor with Chrys Bader previously on his startup Secret. He was a YC batchmate of mine from 2008. I watched him build an initial prototype that had the chance to be a real social network that had very high long term retention, but in the end the company didn't invest deeply enough into moderation and the long term retention cohorts went down steeply past 6 months of use. Chrys is a great designer and product manager who caught lightning in a bottle previously, and lost it. Founders often catch lightning in a bottle and then fail to keep it because scaling operations like moderation, or sometimes even just keeping the servers online, through hyper scale, is hard. Many founders never find lightning in a bottle even once. Even in my experience I felt like we caught lightning in a bottle with Posterous and failed to properly bring it to the scale I wish we could have. I realize I am going out on a limb to defend him here, but founders going back into the arena deserve at least a little bit of defense because it's hard enough to take the chance to make anything ever. You'll hear more about how Ikaria really works, and I realize the post is light on details, but don't write this startup off before you actually try the software itself.
- charliemil4 7y ago
  Friendships are everything — keep them close and cultivate them. If it’s through investments, building tech, do it. The market is a beautiful thing; it will quickly and swiftly tell you if you’re right or not. No need to fret over any apologetic comment.
  - davidajackson 7y ago
    I'm curious about whether the most successful products to solve loneliness will be ones that help people connect virtually, versus connect in person. Maybe a healthy balance of both?
    - 1propionyl 7y ago
      "Solve" loneliness. With a "product". Try to get out of your bubble. To anyone who isn't entirely immersed in that bubble this is absolutely insane talk. It sounds sociopathic and out-of-touch. Maybe, just maybe, this isn't a problem you can "solve" by engineering. And maybe, just maybe, the solution (if it exists) isn't a "product".
paul7986 7y ago
Solution to loniliness on the internet is be decent looking, hot or the vision of what ppl want (aka the beauty standards we're programmed to desire). Those who fit that mold probably aren't the target audience for this app. Overall the Internet and the dating/hook up apps I believe are one of the problems to the loneliness epedemic Ive read about (all or many of us are too judgy online). People being immediately judged and swiped right on (throw to the bin) without ever getting to know someone. Someone who might make you pee your pants with laughter!
- dannyw 7y ago
  I have made close friendships from people on IRC without ever knowing who they look like. Sure, that’s what tinder is, but you don’t have to use tinder.
  - fxtentacle 7y ago
    Me, too. But I wouldn't be able to imagine IRC chat as a VC-fueled iPhone app without ruining it's charms.
econcon 7y ago
Loneliness is because people have convinced themselves that the cost of being with someone is bigger than the reward of being with someone. The immediate cost of being alone is going down. We need to understand, no matter how much a person has read or introspected their behaviour or are kind at their heart - no one will every be able to live up to the expectations of millions of people on internet. This is why relationship advice on internet is such a joke, whenever anything happens, advice that's given to them is "leave this person, this person is abusive, manipulative, you deserve better". They follow the advice and end up alone and convince themselves that being alone is best. Now, about the people who want to pursue romantic interests,the game is soo different now. Long ago, girls from my town only dated local boys. They had to do with what's available to them locally but these days, one girl tells me that their boyfriend is coming to see them on weekend from Italy, while others boyfriend is coming from Greece, etc... Meanwhile men of town have drowned themselves in video games, porn and drinking/drugs because they've no meaningful relationships - they told me they feel like loser because girls aren't interested in them. Yes, the men they are with are wayy better than what's available locally. Better according to preference of those girls, not according to me. Can I blame women for choosing best available to them? No. Many guys will do same provided they had the opportunity. If romantic interests is not what you wanna pursue, it hardly matters if you are not very attractive - you can find plenty of people are church, at beach or anywhere where you see people. Finding people to spend time with us not difficult at all provided you can fulfill the minimum required to not put off the people. I am pretty sure when people say they are lonely - they are talking about absence of people in their life who care about them or make efforts to make them happy or go out of their way to make them feel special, cared for, treasured. Who doesn't want this? How technology can solve it?
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  There is also good relationship advice on the internet, but it probably won't be on hate-fueled platforms like Reddit or Facebook. And mainly, it is: - talk to people, both guys and girls - always stay curious to learn or try something new - always discourage comparing people. Nobody else can know all of your strength. And you will never know all the good points about the person you're judging. #1 will make you easy to be around #2 will make you interesting #3 will make you take the time to really get to know people Together that should do to find someone nice. But let's also talk about the other direction. Most local guys will see advertisements and hope for a nice and pretty girl. And compared with TV ads, most of the local girls will fall short. I mean even the model herself will look worse than her photoshopped images. So why should those guys put in full effort if there's no truly satisfying girl available locally?
kabacha 7y ago
In a world where there are literal conferences on how to psychologically abuse people to spend money in your app I feel that I'd never trust any sort of app that aims "help my psychologicall health". Combined that with the fact that this whole "reveal article" has no actual substance and trying to sell me the idea and emotion rather than a feature makes feel that I'm being manipulated already and I hadn't even opened up the app yet! I feel that the "app" medium has lost any credibility for providing solutions of this sort.
- 1propionyl 7y ago
  It never actually had any credibility for these sorts of deep and complex social problems. That was just a lie we told ourselves and investors during the heyday where we naively believed we were going to solve all of the world's problems through apps. It was never real. No one ever actually believed an app could fix loneliness or depression outside of bored investors with too much money and time on their hands and starving startup developers desperate to break even. And yes, dear HN reader, that likely means YOU. HN readers love to rightfully talk shit about Gwyneth Paltrow and GOOP, but apparently can't see that many of them are pushing the exact same kind of bullshit for a different audience.
  - SuoDuanDao 7y ago
    Meetup has actually been pretty effective for me. Granted it's more of a website than an app, not sure the distinction is important though.
- wkey 7y ago
  I am so tired of generic Tech Crunch articles like this that add no new/ meaningful information.
1propionyl 7y ago
Oh good. Another app. When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem? The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology. I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or exacerbated through technology can be resolved by more of it is painfully naive. It's "when all you've got is a hammer..." logic. New technology won't replace or repair the decline in social centers. New technology won't fix our increasing sense of disconnection with our localities. New technology won't help us engage with local politics (in the sense of trying to do good by collective action). Building new apps and new technologies isn't a cure-all or necessarily a solution for the problems were facing right now. It's time for us to recognize that we (the tech community) don't have all of the right answers, and it's time for us to reach out and try to learn, and try to participate in fixing the problems we helped create.
- pal_9000 7y ago
  You're absolutely wrong. Technology enables an avenue for easier communication, discovery. It may not be a panacea and not the only solution. But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist.
  - 1propionyl 7y ago
    > But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist. Insisting technology _must_ be capable of fixing these problems is naive idiocy. Technology isn't our only means for addressing social issues, and it's certainly not a panacea. Why should we resort to the newest and least well proven approach to issues that humanity has faced for thousands of years? Do you have my actual justification beyond "it gives me a job?"
    - onion2k 7y ago
      I don't think someone launching an app stops people using all the other means of addressing their social issues. It's another option, not a replacement option.
Ice_cream_suit 7y ago
Hype laden, manipulative article with no substance. Is the product going to be similar?
hellofunk 7y ago
Why do these sites obnoxiously hijack the browser back button ?!
LandR 7y ago
Solve loneliness by giving people another reason to stare at their phone. Sigh. I sometimes feel like the tech industry is an episode of black mirror.
1propionyl 7y ago
> It’s a different kind of chat app, named after the Greek island where a close-knit community helps extend people’s lifespans. As someone who actually has family on several Greek islands including Icaria, this is fucking disgusting and insulting marketing. Nearly _every_ village on any island and nearly _every_ village on the mainland have an extremely tight-knit community that care about one another. To claim this is exclusive to one island, or that it somehow extends lifespans in a description of a fucking app? Are you Gwyneth Paltrow? Are you that fucking dishonest? Who the fuck are these people you've hired? Who the fuck advised them to say this? This is legitimately insulting and disgusting. The marketing team for this app are morons, and should (and probably will) be fired. How could any competent team make such a basic fucking mistake?
- 101404 7y ago
  Disgusting and insulting? Please don't be ridiculous. This kind of reaction is a large reason why society is in the situation it is in. But I get it. To feel "special", one must feel "insulted". That's how to collect "victim points". Do you really want to live in a society like that?
  - germinalphrase 7y ago
    Wow. Lot of bad blood in this thread.
    - 101404 7y ago
      Care to elaborate? Nothing I wrote was because of "bad blood" (whatever that is). In a society where, whatever you say, somebody is offended and claims some victimhood status in order to justify the being offended, it is hardly surprising that people feel increasingly lonely. I would not blame technology for that. EDIT: So, no discussion? Just "punishing downvotes"? Well, looks like Q.E.D. then. Brave new world.
      - germinalphrase 7y ago
        I’ve been working. The general tone of this thread is aggressive and dismissive. Clearly, Ikaria is already bring us together in brotherhood and friendship.
busymom0 7y ago
I read through around 75% of the TechCrunch article and I am yet to figure out what exactly this app is supposed to be. Seemed like a lot of feel good jargon but it couldn’t tell me how exactly it will make my life better or improve upon other social media (if that’s what this app is??)
blackrock 7y ago
Suspicious app. This might be another clever way to harvest private user information. Are you lonely? Hey, how about some therapy? Here’s a list of some good therapists. (Your name was auctioned off to the highest bidders.) Or how about some Zoloft? It cures everything. Buy now, for a 25% discount. (Your name and demographic was auctioned off to the highest bidder.) If I was a lunatic, then, I don’t think I want to be in some random company’s insecure database, just waiting to be hacked.
anonsivalley652 7y ago
It should be an app in the form of a huge EPFCG EMP. ;) Only when: 0. people's survival depends on them interacting 1. the established ruling-class is dethroned from atomizing and monetizing people into individual, lonely, learned-helpless products who are taught to spend 10% of their pay on a laptop every 3 years, forgo single-payer healthcare and spend 10x more for medications 2. people can afford housing, start a family and put down roots instead of going in insane debt, gig economy pseudo-jobs, changing jobs/moving like a pinball or living at work to burn-out 3. return to solidarity, cohesion, the Golden Rule and basic decency as the prevalent modality ... will they do so.
idclip 7y ago
“Since I left Secret I feel alive and aligned with my values and my purpose again.” - Bader, co founder What Bader learned from watching Secret’s users “do this in the dark” was the realization that “actually, we need to learn to do this in the light, to have that same kind of dialogue, but do it openly with each other.” Hell of anti workplace toxicity spot if you ask me. We need to regain this piece of our humanity back. Im doing l my share, are you ? HN does lean towards the light from what i can see.
- Ensorceled 7y ago
  > Im doing l my share, are you ? HN does lean towards the light from what i can see. I think, in general, HN leans a little towards the light but that is true of humanity in general. But, there is a boat load of toxicity in this very discussion.
  - idclip 7y ago
    Point it out! Im actually eager to be told my shortcomings. Unconscious things are hard to aolve
sgt 7y ago
An anti-loneliness app? What's wrong with M-x doctor?
leftyted 7y ago
Hannah Arendt claims that loneliness was necessary for the rise of totalitarianism in the 20th century. She writes: > Loneliness, the common ground for terror, the essence of totalitarian government, and for ideology or logicality, the preparation of its executioners and victims, is closely connected with uprootedness and superfluousness which have been the curse of modern masses since the beginning of the industrial revolution and have become acute with the rise of imperialism at the end of the last century and the break-down of political institutions and social traditions in our own time. To be uprooted means to have no place in the world, recognized and guaranteed by others; to be superfluous means not to belong to the world at all. Uprootedness can be the preliminary condition for superfluousness, just as isolation can (but must not) be the preliminary condition for loneliness. Taken in itself, without consideration of its recent historical causes and its new role in politics, loneliness is at the same time contrary to the basic requirements of the human condition and one of the fundamental experiences of every human life. Even the experience of the materially and sensually given world depends upon my being in contact with other men, upon our common sense which regulates and controls all other senses and without which each of us would enclosed in his own particularity of sense data which in themselves are unreliable and treacherous. Only because we have common sense, that is only because not one man, but men in the plural inhabit the earth can we trust our immediate sensual experience. Yet, we have only to remind ourselves that one day we shall have to leave this common world which will go on as before and for whose continuity we are superfluous in order to realize loneliness, the experience of being abandoned by everything and everybody. Dealing with "uprootedness and superfluousness" is one of the most perplexing questions facing modernity. I doubt an app can address this but...good luck.
macinjosh 7y ago
The phone's off button is the ultimate anti-loneliness app.
KoftaBob 7y ago
I'd argue that modern day issue of loneliness is an urban design problem way more than it is a technology problem. The suburbs are isolating, and building strip malls instead of walkable downtowns (for both suburbs and denser areas) just adds to that. We pushed for the quiet and privacy of suburbs but took it so far that we eliminated the human interaction. We need to start prioritizing spaces and urban design that encourage social interaction. Build walkable downtowns around commuter rail stations. More parks, coffeeshops, community spaces to suit different hobbies, etc.
rationalbeaver 7y ago
"Ikaria...named after the Greek island where a close-knit community helps extend people’s lifespans." "Bader met Dadashi through an offline men’s group for discussing life, love and everything in the wake of Secret’s collapse and a rough romantic breakup. After just a few weeks of these meetups, they say they felt closer to each other than to most of their friends." "Basically, since 2004, technology has created this monumental shift in the human social experience. We’re more connected than ever technically but all the studies show we’re lonelier than ever,” Bader explains. “It’s like eating McDonald’s to get healthy." And the conclusion is to take VC money to make a slightly different McDonald's. I just can't even.
mbar84 7y ago
Is the guy on the right not the sycophant of Gavin Belson?
chrysb 7y ago
Sorry, I missed the parent thread. This all started with a very simple question: Do we fundamentally believe that technology can help us create more meaningful relationships and increase our social wellness? If we believe the answer is yes, then we absolutely must do everything in our power and ability to try to find the answer. That's why we decided to build Ikaria. We are not ignorant to the value of real, in-person communication and interaction, and we're not trying to replace it. We've done deep research on the psychology of relationships and loneliness, and the mental health impact of it. The problem exists with or without social media, although numerous studies have shown the problem can be exacerbated by social media. Since we cannot avoid technology, we must reclaim it and give people spaces where they can form healthy habits and healthy relationships with their phones and each other. Very much like the fitness industry was born from a junk food epidemic, it's time for a shake-up in junk social nutrition. Our goal is to bring healthy relational practices to the forefront. Very much like Calm and Headspace have done for mindfulness and mental health, we would like to do for social health. From what we've seen, the behaviors we learn in a digital space are transferable into the physical world. We are working directly with experts and mental health professionals to help inform our product decisions and include them from the very beginning. This is bigger than any one person or idea, and we believe it's going to take a village. So far, in our closed beta, people are reporting feeling closer to everyone in their groups, increased levels of happiness, and a positive relationship with the app. (i.e. "This is the only app where I allow notifications other than text") For me, personally, it's brought me much closer to my parents and I keep in touch with them more than I ever have. I'd love for more people to have that experience. We welcome criticism and support equally, thank you to everyone who has shown interest and has shared their views.

131 points by daddy_drank 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

> “I don’t feel good about that. That sucks,” Chrys Bader-Wechseler reflects when asked about the bullying that went down on the anonymous app Secret he co-founded in 2013. After $35 million raised, 15 million users and a spectacular flame out two years later, the startup was dead. “Since I left Secret I feel alive and aligned with my values and my purpose again.” I wonder what his values and purpose are.

randycupertino 7y ago
> I wonder what his values and purpose are. Hopefully not using investor $$ to buy himself a ferrari, like his co-founder! https://nextshark.com/david-byttow-secret-founder-sells-prized-ferrari-after-having-to-shut-down-100-million-company/ https://nextshark.com/david-byttow-secret-founder-sells-priz...
- kubmit 7y ago
  what the hell is the point of this statement? he didn't do that.
wruza 7y ago
To look forward, to hope for the best for everyone and to overcome the unforeseen. Idk who this guy is, but it is clear from the text that he is a startup entrepreneur.
speedplane 7y ago
> “Since I left Secret I feel alive and aligned with my values and my purpose again.” > I wonder what his values and purpose are. Few people know the founder and whether he's actually a good person or a fraud, but we do know that: he was the recipient of huge VC largess, created an app with shaky moral foundation that caused actual harm, and then shut it down after lots of bad publicity. Not reasons to totally discount a person, but good reasons to be skeptical.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
chrysb 7y ago
Hi, This is a totally fair question. I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. When I designed and built Secret, it was based on an early community of people who were sharing things we'd never see on Facebook or anywhere else. I was touched by the vulnerable stories and conversations people were having. People would come to me and tell me Secret changed their life in positive ways. This is why I continued to work on it and believed that it was possible for it to do good in the world. Ever since I left Secret, those moments always stuck with me. And even to this day people reach out and tell me they miss Secret; what I hear is that people still have a need to share vulnerably. That's why I decided to lick my wounds and get back to work. Last August I hit a peak of loneliness after moving to LA, and using Instagram all the time. I felt like shit, like I wasn't enough, and I was really hard on myself and self critical. This led me to an emotional rock bottom. It wasn't until then that I demanded self love from myself and built myself back up emotionally, and it was that process that inspired me to help other who might feel like I did at that difficult point last August. Personally, some of my values are: — People are inherently good. I believe everyone has a story and their own challenges, and if they can feel heard, they can feel accepted and become a healthy and thriving individual. — Strangers are just friends waiting to happen. We can be quick to judge other people, but we should always bias to listening and to asking questions to better understand where people are coming from. — It starts with self love. If you can't accept yourself, how can you ever truly know how to accept anyone else? Usually when we reject others, it's because we reject something about ourselves. I learned this lesson the hard way, and hope to bring more self compassion to others. — It takes a village. Pursuing any mission in life is greater than any one person. When I built Secret, initially it was mostly my idea and I designed it myself. I think that's the exception to the rule. With what we're building now, we've received so much support that all I can do is empower and enable people to do what they love to bring this mission to life. — Leave it better than you found it. Whatever situation you're in, do what you can to make a little better. — Joy waits on the other side of fear. Often the things we are afraid of are gateways to self-discovery and fulfilling our potential. I could go on, but these are just some that come to mind now. You can read about the values of our company on our website at http://ikaria.co http://ikaria.co

hellotomyrars 7y ago

Incredibly vague statements parroting known talking points with 0 substance to show for it. I hate to be cynical but all this `tech to fix the social problems created by tech` really brings out the cynic in me. Realistically I know that we do need new solutions but the solution to a drinking problem isn't to deliver better, more mindful alcohol. Edit: To the comments below, I am not asserting that tech has actually created an entire new set of problems out of nothing, just that that is the narrative on display here and in other places. This is part of why it makes me so incredibly cynical.

stickfigure 7y ago
I agree with your evaluation of the article, but I'm tired of this "social problems created by tech" narrative. I grew up in the world before the internet. It was NOT better.
- notlukesky 7y ago
  I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. Everything keeps getting better over time (measured in say decades) but the one constant we will always have is complaining. Yes there are always real problems and new ones are also created, but on the whole we are doing better in many matters.
  - kinleyd 7y ago
    Yes, I think the personal computer sucked in many people who previously would have idled their time elsewhere, having nothing better to do. It was often a life saver or at the very least a more productive use of time - for me it certainly was.
  - mnsc 7y ago
    > I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. That seem like a pretty hard to prove statement. Per definition those who were young in the olden-days of bullying are now old and not in the same situation where the bullying typically happens. I too remember the physical "real" bullying but one up-side of that is that the bullies couldn't get away with that much bullying since it was very visible and left physical traces. Also the extreme solution of relocating was available. Modern day bullies bullies in a very _real_ way (ask someone who is bullied) and it's harder to find a safe place and also harder to find and build a few strong meaningful friendships. Bullies find their way into your bedroom under your covers (phone lights up, "is it them?") and when every relation is visible and measured in likes and engagement good luck getting a friend that wants to connect with someone who is bullied and risk attracting the attention of the bullies. So what until today's young ones are old enough to tell you exactly how bad we fucked them up. Bring tissues. But maybe this app will fix them! Invest!

mjevans 7y ago

The root cause of this is pretty much entirely greed. Greed in the form of housing policies where that is used as a tool for investment, rather than an investment in the community. Greed in the form of a missing integration in to society and support for all who are in it to at least a basic level of guarantee. (Popular example, Star Trek utopia) Greed in the form of profits being squeezed upward rather than shared as prosperity for all. - If everyone had their own, quality (private, outside noises/smells/etc excluded by good design and build quality), living spaces nearer to each other that would be far better for the design of our cities and the environment. If everyone had a useful, non-broken-window, job and place where they added value to society, that would be better for everyone. If everyone needed to expend less and less of their day working as things got more efficient, we would have the time to actually exist as humans / intelligent emotional beings among Family, Friends, and those we don't yet know. - I really believe that if people were treated like people, and had the time to be better people, much of our social ills would sort out sooner rather than later.

lopmotr 7y ago
I live in New Zealand and most of what you say already exists. Yet we still have all the normal social ills. So I think that's proof you're wrong. > If everyone needed to expend less and less of their day working as things got more efficient We have that! Get an unskilled part time job and the government will give you a bit extra to pay the rent, and even more to support your children, etc. They'll also actively help you find work if you're unemployed. To remain unemployed here, you have to really put an effort in if you're not disabled. Personally, I have fairly high value skills and only use them part time, so I'm living your utopia. Most people with high earning capacity choose to earn more though. So the big problem for you is how do you limit the efforts of ambitious people to enforce this easy life on them?
- mjevans 7y ago
  I think you have some of it, not all of it.
platonicommune 7y ago
time and time again i've read this flavor of communist rhetoric. time and time again, nothing changes and neither the reader nor the author is inspired to do anything differently after it's regurgitated. Yes, yes i'm sure if it wasn't for those greedy corporations we'd all have more time to run hedonistic treadmills, and our lives would be meaningful. what are you going to do about it, nerd? so save your comments for reddit, and i'll save mine for /dev/null. maybe dang will pipe this one for me!

Invictus0 7y ago

In my opinion, with regards to friendship, there is simply no substitute for an in person conversation. I happily drive 6 hours to see my best friends for a weekend; that's at least $70 in gas as well. FaceTime just isn't the same and I have a hard time imagining the people in my circle (the same type of people I would like to meet) spending their time trying to meet people on an app.

Mediterraneo10 7y ago
I also value in-person conversation. But my experience has increasingly been that my circle of friends is up for having dinner or whatever, but during the meal everyone is looking down at their phones and they only have half of their attention on the conversation. When your friends aren’t entirely present mentally, then even in-person meetups can make you feel lonely.
- dannyw 7y ago
  Try to get your circle of friends more engaged and present if you can.
wallacoloo 7y ago
I spent an entire year living on my own, never inviting a single other person into my home and only entering the home of another person (save for immediate family, during holiday) once. Having chat apps made that experience much more bearable and actually did lead to a handful of real-world, albeit mostly long-distance, friendships (in that I host them in town for one week out of the year and they host me for one week out of the year). At this point, I think chat apps can improve things in some ways for some people. But that year alone mostly just made me hungry for more real face-to-face bonding. Apart from the people who are well-enough off to travel, but poor enough to have no friends, I’m not sure any chat app really has a place in your social life unless creating real-world friendships is one of its primary goals and it’s designed to actually achieve that effectively.

wyck 7y ago

Wow had a flashback to the web 2.0 bubble. They must be really convincing at sales to get funding for something they can't even explain, again.

garry 7y ago

I invested in Ikaria and feel like someone should speak up here. I was early investor with Chrys Bader previously on his startup Secret. He was a YC batchmate of mine from 2008. I watched him build an initial prototype that had the chance to be a real social network that had very high long term retention, but in the end the company didn't invest deeply enough into moderation and the long term retention cohorts went down steeply past 6 months of use. Chrys is a great designer and product manager who caught lightning in a bottle previously, and lost it. Founders often catch lightning in a bottle and then fail to keep it because scaling operations like moderation, or sometimes even just keeping the servers online, through hyper scale, is hard. Many founders never find lightning in a bottle even once. Even in my experience I felt like we caught lightning in a bottle with Posterous and failed to properly bring it to the scale I wish we could have. I realize I am going out on a limb to defend him here, but founders going back into the arena deserve at least a little bit of defense because it's hard enough to take the chance to make anything ever. You'll hear more about how Ikaria really works, and I realize the post is light on details, but don't write this startup off before you actually try the software itself.

charliemil4 7y ago
Friendships are everything — keep them close and cultivate them. If it’s through investments, building tech, do it. The market is a beautiful thing; it will quickly and swiftly tell you if you’re right or not. No need to fret over any apologetic comment.
- davidajackson 7y ago
  I'm curious about whether the most successful products to solve loneliness will be ones that help people connect virtually, versus connect in person. Maybe a healthy balance of both?
  - 1propionyl 7y ago
    "Solve" loneliness. With a "product". Try to get out of your bubble. To anyone who isn't entirely immersed in that bubble this is absolutely insane talk. It sounds sociopathic and out-of-touch. Maybe, just maybe, this isn't a problem you can "solve" by engineering. And maybe, just maybe, the solution (if it exists) isn't a "product".

paul7986 7y ago

Solution to loniliness on the internet is be decent looking, hot or the vision of what ppl want (aka the beauty standards we're programmed to desire). Those who fit that mold probably aren't the target audience for this app. Overall the Internet and the dating/hook up apps I believe are one of the problems to the loneliness epedemic Ive read about (all or many of us are too judgy online). People being immediately judged and swiped right on (throw to the bin) without ever getting to know someone. Someone who might make you pee your pants with laughter!

dannyw 7y ago
I have made close friendships from people on IRC without ever knowing who they look like. Sure, that’s what tinder is, but you don’t have to use tinder.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  Me, too. But I wouldn't be able to imagine IRC chat as a VC-fueled iPhone app without ruining it's charms.

econcon 7y ago

Loneliness is because people have convinced themselves that the cost of being with someone is bigger than the reward of being with someone. The immediate cost of being alone is going down. We need to understand, no matter how much a person has read or introspected their behaviour or are kind at their heart - no one will every be able to live up to the expectations of millions of people on internet. This is why relationship advice on internet is such a joke, whenever anything happens, advice that's given to them is "leave this person, this person is abusive, manipulative, you deserve better". They follow the advice and end up alone and convince themselves that being alone is best. Now, about the people who want to pursue romantic interests,the game is soo different now. Long ago, girls from my town only dated local boys. They had to do with what's available to them locally but these days, one girl tells me that their boyfriend is coming to see them on weekend from Italy, while others boyfriend is coming from Greece, etc... Meanwhile men of town have drowned themselves in video games, porn and drinking/drugs because they've no meaningful relationships - they told me they feel like loser because girls aren't interested in them. Yes, the men they are with are wayy better than what's available locally. Better according to preference of those girls, not according to me. Can I blame women for choosing best available to them? No. Many guys will do same provided they had the opportunity. If romantic interests is not what you wanna pursue, it hardly matters if you are not very attractive - you can find plenty of people are church, at beach or anywhere where you see people. Finding people to spend time with us not difficult at all provided you can fulfill the minimum required to not put off the people. I am pretty sure when people say they are lonely - they are talking about absence of people in their life who care about them or make efforts to make them happy or go out of their way to make them feel special, cared for, treasured. Who doesn't want this? How technology can solve it?

fxtentacle 7y ago
There is also good relationship advice on the internet, but it probably won't be on hate-fueled platforms like Reddit or Facebook. And mainly, it is: - talk to people, both guys and girls - always stay curious to learn or try something new - always discourage comparing people. Nobody else can know all of your strength. And you will never know all the good points about the person you're judging. #1 will make you easy to be around #2 will make you interesting #3 will make you take the time to really get to know people Together that should do to find someone nice. But let's also talk about the other direction. Most local guys will see advertisements and hope for a nice and pretty girl. And compared with TV ads, most of the local girls will fall short. I mean even the model herself will look worse than her photoshopped images. So why should those guys put in full effort if there's no truly satisfying girl available locally?

kabacha 7y ago

In a world where there are literal conferences on how to psychologically abuse people to spend money in your app I feel that I'd never trust any sort of app that aims "help my psychologicall health". Combined that with the fact that this whole "reveal article" has no actual substance and trying to sell me the idea and emotion rather than a feature makes feel that I'm being manipulated already and I hadn't even opened up the app yet! I feel that the "app" medium has lost any credibility for providing solutions of this sort.

1propionyl 7y ago
It never actually had any credibility for these sorts of deep and complex social problems. That was just a lie we told ourselves and investors during the heyday where we naively believed we were going to solve all of the world's problems through apps. It was never real. No one ever actually believed an app could fix loneliness or depression outside of bored investors with too much money and time on their hands and starving startup developers desperate to break even. And yes, dear HN reader, that likely means YOU. HN readers love to rightfully talk shit about Gwyneth Paltrow and GOOP, but apparently can't see that many of them are pushing the exact same kind of bullshit for a different audience.
- SuoDuanDao 7y ago
  Meetup has actually been pretty effective for me. Granted it's more of a website than an app, not sure the distinction is important though.
wkey 7y ago
I am so tired of generic Tech Crunch articles like this that add no new/ meaningful information.

1propionyl 7y ago

Oh good. Another app. When will people learn that more technology is not only not always the answer, but often the problem? The biggest fallacy of the 21st century is the idea that the shortcomings and collateral effects of the advance of technology can be addressed with more technology. I'm not against technology. I'm not a neo-Luddite. But at the same time, the conception that all of the problems we've created or exacerbated through technology can be resolved by more of it is painfully naive. It's "when all you've got is a hammer..." logic. New technology won't replace or repair the decline in social centers. New technology won't fix our increasing sense of disconnection with our localities. New technology won't help us engage with local politics (in the sense of trying to do good by collective action). Building new apps and new technologies isn't a cure-all or necessarily a solution for the problems were facing right now. It's time for us to recognize that we (the tech community) don't have all of the right answers, and it's time for us to reach out and try to learn, and try to participate in fixing the problems we helped create.

pal_9000 7y ago
You're absolutely wrong. Technology enables an avenue for easier communication, discovery. It may not be a panacea and not the only solution. But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist.
- 1propionyl 7y ago
  > But saying 'it won't fix' is defeatist. Insisting technology _must_ be capable of fixing these problems is naive idiocy. Technology isn't our only means for addressing social issues, and it's certainly not a panacea. Why should we resort to the newest and least well proven approach to issues that humanity has faced for thousands of years? Do you have my actual justification beyond "it gives me a job?"
  - onion2k 7y ago
    I don't think someone launching an app stops people using all the other means of addressing their social issues. It's another option, not a replacement option.

Ice_cream_suit 7y ago

Hype laden, manipulative article with no substance. Is the product going to be similar?

hellofunk 7y ago

Why do these sites obnoxiously hijack the browser back button ?!

LandR 7y ago

Solve loneliness by giving people another reason to stare at their phone. Sigh. I sometimes feel like the tech industry is an episode of black mirror.

1propionyl 7y ago

> It’s a different kind of chat app, named after the Greek island where a close-knit community helps extend people’s lifespans. As someone who actually has family on several Greek islands including Icaria, this is fucking disgusting and insulting marketing. Nearly _every_ village on any island and nearly _every_ village on the mainland have an extremely tight-knit community that care about one another. To claim this is exclusive to one island, or that it somehow extends lifespans in a description of a fucking app? Are you Gwyneth Paltrow? Are you that fucking dishonest? Who the fuck are these people you've hired? Who the fuck advised them to say this? This is legitimately insulting and disgusting. The marketing team for this app are morons, and should (and probably will) be fired. How could any competent team make such a basic fucking mistake?

101404 7y ago
Disgusting and insulting? Please don't be ridiculous. This kind of reaction is a large reason why society is in the situation it is in. But I get it. To feel "special", one must feel "insulted". That's how to collect "victim points". Do you really want to live in a society like that?
- germinalphrase 7y ago
  Wow. Lot of bad blood in this thread.
  - 101404 7y ago
    Care to elaborate? Nothing I wrote was because of "bad blood" (whatever that is). In a society where, whatever you say, somebody is offended and claims some victimhood status in order to justify the being offended, it is hardly surprising that people feel increasingly lonely. I would not blame technology for that. EDIT: So, no discussion? Just "punishing downvotes"? Well, looks like Q.E.D. then. Brave new world.
    - germinalphrase 7y ago
      I’ve been working. The general tone of this thread is aggressive and dismissive. Clearly, Ikaria is already bring us together in brotherhood and friendship.

busymom0 7y ago

I read through around 75% of the TechCrunch article and I am yet to figure out what exactly this app is supposed to be. Seemed like a lot of feel good jargon but it couldn’t tell me how exactly it will make my life better or improve upon other social media (if that’s what this app is??)

blackrock 7y ago

Suspicious app. This might be another clever way to harvest private user information. Are you lonely? Hey, how about some therapy? Here’s a list of some good therapists. (Your name was auctioned off to the highest bidders.) Or how about some Zoloft? It cures everything. Buy now, for a 25% discount. (Your name and demographic was auctioned off to the highest bidder.) If I was a lunatic, then, I don’t think I want to be in some random company’s insecure database, just waiting to be hacked.

anonsivalley652 7y ago

It should be an app in the form of a huge EPFCG EMP. ;) Only when: 0. people's survival depends on them interacting 1. the established ruling-class is dethroned from atomizing and monetizing people into individual, lonely, learned-helpless products who are taught to spend 10% of their pay on a laptop every 3 years, forgo single-payer healthcare and spend 10x more for medications 2. people can afford housing, start a family and put down roots instead of going in insane debt, gig economy pseudo-jobs, changing jobs/moving like a pinball or living at work to burn-out 3. return to solidarity, cohesion, the Golden Rule and basic decency as the prevalent modality ... will they do so.

idclip 7y ago

“Since I left Secret I feel alive and aligned with my values and my purpose again.” - Bader, co founder What Bader learned from watching Secret’s users “do this in the dark” was the realization that “actually, we need to learn to do this in the light, to have that same kind of dialogue, but do it openly with each other.” Hell of anti workplace toxicity spot if you ask me. We need to regain this piece of our humanity back. Im doing l my share, are you ? HN does lean towards the light from what i can see.

Ensorceled 7y ago
> Im doing l my share, are you ? HN does lean towards the light from what i can see. I think, in general, HN leans a little towards the light but that is true of humanity in general. But, there is a boat load of toxicity in this very discussion.
- idclip 7y ago
  Point it out! Im actually eager to be told my shortcomings. Unconscious things are hard to aolve

sgt 7y ago

An anti-loneliness app? What's wrong with M-x doctor?

leftyted 7y ago

Hannah Arendt claims that loneliness was necessary for the rise of totalitarianism in the 20th century. She writes: > Loneliness, the common ground for terror, the essence of totalitarian government, and for ideology or logicality, the preparation of its executioners and victims, is closely connected with uprootedness and superfluousness which have been the curse of modern masses since the beginning of the industrial revolution and have become acute with the rise of imperialism at the end of the last century and the break-down of political institutions and social traditions in our own time. To be uprooted means to have no place in the world, recognized and guaranteed by others; to be superfluous means not to belong to the world at all. Uprootedness can be the preliminary condition for superfluousness, just as isolation can (but must not) be the preliminary condition for loneliness. Taken in itself, without consideration of its recent historical causes and its new role in politics, loneliness is at the same time contrary to the basic requirements of the human condition and one of the fundamental experiences of every human life. Even the experience of the materially and sensually given world depends upon my being in contact with other men, upon our common sense which regulates and controls all other senses and without which each of us would enclosed in his own particularity of sense data which in themselves are unreliable and treacherous. Only because we have common sense, that is only because not one man, but men in the plural inhabit the earth can we trust our immediate sensual experience. Yet, we have only to remind ourselves that one day we shall have to leave this common world which will go on as before and for whose continuity we are superfluous in order to realize loneliness, the experience of being abandoned by everything and everybody. Dealing with "uprootedness and superfluousness" is one of the most perplexing questions facing modernity. I doubt an app can address this but...good luck.

macinjosh 7y ago

The phone's off button is the ultimate anti-loneliness app.

KoftaBob 7y ago

I'd argue that modern day issue of loneliness is an urban design problem way more than it is a technology problem. The suburbs are isolating, and building strip malls instead of walkable downtowns (for both suburbs and denser areas) just adds to that. We pushed for the quiet and privacy of suburbs but took it so far that we eliminated the human interaction. We need to start prioritizing spaces and urban design that encourage social interaction. Build walkable downtowns around commuter rail stations. More parks, coffeeshops, community spaces to suit different hobbies, etc.

rationalbeaver 7y ago

"Ikaria...named after the Greek island where a close-knit community helps extend people’s lifespans." "Bader met Dadashi through an offline men’s group for discussing life, love and everything in the wake of Secret’s collapse and a rough romantic breakup. After just a few weeks of these meetups, they say they felt closer to each other than to most of their friends." "Basically, since 2004, technology has created this monumental shift in the human social experience. We’re more connected than ever technically but all the studies show we’re lonelier than ever,” Bader explains. “It’s like eating McDonald’s to get healthy." And the conclusion is to take VC money to make a slightly different McDonald's. I just can't even.

mbar84 7y ago

Is the guy on the right not the sycophant of Gavin Belson?

chrysb 7y ago

Sorry, I missed the parent thread. This all started with a very simple question: Do we fundamentally believe that technology can help us create more meaningful relationships and increase our social wellness? If we believe the answer is yes, then we absolutely must do everything in our power and ability to try to find the answer. That's why we decided to build Ikaria. We are not ignorant to the value of real, in-person communication and interaction, and we're not trying to replace it. We've done deep research on the psychology of relationships and loneliness, and the mental health impact of it. The problem exists with or without social media, although numerous studies have shown the problem can be exacerbated by social media. Since we cannot avoid technology, we must reclaim it and give people spaces where they can form healthy habits and healthy relationships with their phones and each other. Very much like the fitness industry was born from a junk food epidemic, it's time for a shake-up in junk social nutrition. Our goal is to bring healthy relational practices to the forefront. Very much like Calm and Headspace have done for mindfulness and mental health, we would like to do for social health. From what we've seen, the behaviors we learn in a digital space are transferable into the physical world. We are working directly with experts and mental health professionals to help inform our product decisions and include them from the very beginning. This is bigger than any one person or idea, and we believe it's going to take a village. So far, in our closed beta, people are reporting feeling closer to everyone in their groups, increased levels of happiness, and a positive relationship with the app. (i.e. "This is the only app where I allow notifications other than text") For me, personally, it's brought me much closer to my parents and I keep in touch with them more than I ever have. I'd love for more people to have that experience. We welcome criticism and support equally, thank you to everyone who has shown interest and has shared their views.