22 ms·

Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

351 points by prostoalex 7y ago

techslave 7y ago
5% by transaction count or by value?
cody3222 7y ago
I was visiting Sydney earlier this year and could use Apple Pay on the metro/ferry/bus. Rather than wasting time at a ticket machine, inserting a card, etc, I could literally just tap my phone on the turnstile and "ding" I was in. This was really a game changer.
jherdman 7y ago
In Canada we've had contact-less pay with our credit cards for quite some time. Usage of Apple Pay, etc., is near zero here. Frankly there's just no benefit.
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Apple is enough of a behemoth to finally drag this industry forward. I use Apple Pay whenever possible. Mostly because it’s fast and secure. And I don’t mean “fast and secure” like a marketer, but actually fast and actually secure. I can’t believe that the best thing the credit industry could come up with was chip and pin. Slow, insecure[1], and awful experience. Begone, parasites. 1. https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/chip-and-pin-cards-insecure/12787/ https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/chip-and-pin-cards-insecure/1...
- bradvl 7y ago
  The patents underneath Apple Pay are mostly Mastercard...
- fierarul 7y ago
  In Romania we have Visa PayWave for years. For small amounts you just wave the card in from of the POS and you are done. For bigger amounts you are asked your PIN and I find that reasonable. I don't see how waving my watch in front of the POS would make this easier, it would actually be more cumbersome depending on how the POS is presented.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    In the US it's usually 'insert card into reader, then wait 30-90 seconds'. I don't know where the delay comes from, but Apple Pay is usually faster for me.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      I actually recently realized that my local pharmacy chain (in WA) had that "wave" NFC icon on screen, so I decided to try tapping my credit card. To my surprise, it worked without a hitch, so now i consciously try to spot those. Quite a few places have those now, but they all seem to also support Apple Pay, so it makes more sense to use that for reliability (because all the ones supporting a card tap also support Apple Pay, but the reverse doesn't seem to be true).
    - judge2020 7y ago
      30-90 seconds is a big exaggeration. Using chip without a pin number takes at most 5 seconds, and using a pin only increases the wait for the duration it takes to enter the code.
      - pathartl 7y ago
        While I agree with you it's definitely an exaggeration, part of the UX that's a bit of a pain for the purchaser is when the terminal is locked up until the cashier confirms the purchase. Either you're forced to leave your card in or you can't put your card in until they're ready. I really think some messaging to change it from "Please Wait" to "Waiting for cashier" would help the real non-tech-savvy people. My parents almost always have issues with the chip because of this. They'll pull out the card at the wrong time and such.
        kelnos 7y ago
        I think some of this is dependent on the hardware used? At least for Apple/Google Pay, I've noticed that for some merchants (Safeway), I can "pay" at any point while the cashier is still scanning times, while for others (Trader Joe's), I have to wait until the cashier is done and moves the transaction into the payment phase. On the other hand, I don't recall a merchant where I could physically insert my card whenever I wanted, so the A/G Pay option is better in many/most places, even if there are some where you have to wait.
- hrdwdmrbl 7y ago
  IMHO, chip and pin is quite good in Canada. But yes, I too use Apple Pay whenever possible. I feel like I'm doing my small part to drag the industry forward. (Though my secret hope is that Visa and Mastercard get replaced with something else. Hopefully that's easier to do after their intermediated by Apple Pay)
avocado4 7y ago
> Apple Pay accounts for about 5% of global card transactions and is on pace to handle 1-in-10 such payments by 2025, according to recent trend data compiled by Bernstein, a research firm.
avocado4 7y ago
BART and Muni need to start accepting Apple Pay ASAP. You can already do it in the UK and many other countries. Adoption of technologies like NFC payments in public transport is a good metric to see how competent a local government is.
- kelnos 7y ago
  Looks like there are plans for this[0] (both support for a dedicated app and digital wallets); Wikipedia suggest 2021, but I expect it won't be out by next year. I actually assumed Clipper was RFID, but turns out it's NFC after all (the Wikipedia article also notes that it's a common misconception that it uses RFID). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_card#Clipper_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_card#Clipper_2.0
- wikiman 7y ago
  New York is very quickly rolling out OMNY, which does support apple pay. It makes me happy, and I can't wait until I can buy my monthly that way
  - brlewis 7y ago
    Also Portland, Oregon - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207958 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207958 Chicago and Miami are likely to follow suit since they already support Fitbit Pay (disclaimer: my employer, but I don't speak for them) - https://www.fitbit.com/us/technology/fitbit-pay/banks https://www.fitbit.com/us/technology/fitbit-pay/banks
  - jrockway 7y ago
    OMNY is neat. You do not need to turn your phone's screen on to use it, and it works for a while after your phone's battery dies. It is still slower than what I'm used to in Japan, where people have been paying for transit with their phone since 2001 or 2002. (Tokyo also went from 50-ish pilot stations to 500 production stations in just a few months. In New York, I think 2023 is the estimated completion date?)
- cbhl 7y ago
hprotagonist 7y ago
I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's often very hard or not possible to enter discount codes or other special checkout options like "pick up in store" when using the apple pay button(s); when I don't have any codes, I dearly appreciate not having to make an account for that merchant and i'm significantly more likely to spend money at websites that support it.
- needusername 7y ago
  > It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM Nope. That's deliberately confusing Apple marketing. You get one PAN per device. The new "number" is just the EMV unpredictable number. You get that with any EMV card. https://emvlab.org/emvtags/show/t9F37/ https://emvlab.org/emvtags/show/t9F37/ > and not care about skimming. Because the PAN is only valid for online authorized EMV transactions.
  - anamexis 7y ago
    So, yep? They didn't claim it was a unique feature of Apple Pay.
    - needusername 7y ago
      They make it sound like there is a special "Apple sauce" that they built and strongly suggest they generate a new PAN for every transaction. The suggest that a "token" instead of a PAN is used for the transaction. This is very misleading. If you read it very carefully they are not wrong, but for the uninitiated a wrong impression is crated. They are using an industry standard protocol that is 25 years old.
      - reaperducer 7y ago
ksec 7y ago
They will accelerate if they could roll out Apple Card around the world.
- judge2020 7y ago
  I wonder why this is. Maybe it's because there's some limited number of markets outside the US Goldman Sachs can legally do business with? If so, I imagine Apple has to find a card partner for those other markets. Edit: I realize Apple Pay in other markets would be hard if they wanted to keep the 1%/2% daily cash feature due to transaction fee limits, as the other comment has said.
  - babypuncher 7y ago
    Places like the EU put strict limits on processing fees, making perks like Apple Card's 2% cashback non-viable.
- stefan_ 7y ago
  What does the rest of the world want to do with this? Europe doesn't care for >2% transaction fees, and to people in China used to the convenience of sending money around with WeChat, this whole credit card number business must look positively ancient. Plastic cards and P(iece)O(f)S(hit) terminals with a RJ45 connector? No man, you just scan this QR code here.
  - princekolt 7y ago
    You should revisit your concept of what Europe likes. Even in Berlin, the cash-only capital of Europe, I almost never use cash anymore.
    - jon-wood 7y ago
      Europe loves card payments, but you’re much more likely to see people using debit cards because the EU regulates card fees, making it much less common to get credit cards that do cash back or similar reward programs.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mikestew 7y ago
Apple Pay makes many purchases almost an impulse buy for me. "Hmm, that looks interesting...and you take Apple Pay? And I am buying it from someone other than Amazon, without my credit card getting stolen again? Take my money with a single click!"
- Angostura 7y ago
  Wait until you see the rather nifty charity billboards that you can donate by waving your phone at them. Saw a photo of one on a bus shelter in the UK
  - filoleg 7y ago
    That's actually a genius idea. While I strongly believe that everyone should do some research about any charity before they donate to it, the tappable/waveable donation boards would definitely reduce friction to donating (as well as bringing up awareness of the charity to be researched in the first place).
    - fphhotchips 7y ago
      A few hospitals here in Australia have this to donate to their associated foundations, but in the cafe near the payment station. You've just paid for something, and it takes another 3s to donate - it's almost too easy to be nice without thinking!
mrosett 7y ago
I thought Apple pay was really dumb... and then I started using it. Especially with an Apple Watch: when I get to checkout, I can fumble with my wallet, dig out a card, wait ten seconds for the chip to read, and then put the card away.... or I can tap a button on my watch twice and wave it near the reader. Done.
- ghaff 7y ago
  It's nice when traveling with an Apple Watch outside the US. I can do transactions without the whole "sigh, I need to find a pen so this American can sign a receipt." (There's a fairly low limit to Apple Pay transactions for US accounts in some places but it's still nice to pick up a few items in a grocery store.)
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I forgot to pack my traveling cards on a trip once and found myself on the Navajo Nation without any plastic. Apple Pay on my Apple Watch saved my bacon. Hotel, restaurant, gift shop, trading post... every place that takes plastic there take Apple Pay. I think the reason is that because of limited connectivity, they're a little late to the credit card game, so all of their terminals and processes are the new tech. There's no legacy gear or processes to upgrade from. Which is similar for the whole credit card arena in general. People keep posting on here about America being backwards when it comes to credit cards and in the "civilized world" (Is there a more condescending Eurotrash phrase than that?) the banking system is more advanced. The fact is that America has had mass deployment of credit cards for far longer than other nations, so naturally it will take longer to upgrade. Greenfields are always easier to build on.
- grogenaut 7y ago
  When I first got the chip it was like 30 seconds to auth. Now it's about 1-3 seconds, basically put it in, beep, pull it out. Like a less-likely-to-fail swipe.
- danans 7y ago
  Contactless phone payments work great, but I find contactless watch payments to be really physically awkward, for a number of reasons. First, the watch is worn on the wrong side of the hand for conveniently accessing the contactless reader. Second, the contactless reader is itself usually on a counter below requiring me to stoop over to make my wrist reach it. The extra 1 foot of reach you get with a phone is very helpful in this situation. Third, I like seeing the visual feedback confirming on the screen of the payment device, which you can't do with a watch held with it's face to the reader. Sure, it vibrates, but that isn't a great indicator of success IMO.
rb808 7y ago
Wow I always thought this was a gimmick that no one used, I'll have to evaluate. even 5% doesn't sound right to me (of course the headline is an estimate). > Apple Pay accounts for about 5% of global card transactions and is on pace to handle 1-in-10 such payments by 2025,
- ladberg 7y ago
  I find it super convenient from my Apple Watch and use it for most of my payments, but I'd agree that I'm also surprised by 5%. I rarely see anyone else using it even in the Bay Area at stores that have supported it for years.
- JCharante 7y ago
  Do you also think Android Pay (or is it Google Pay now?) is a gimmick? I highly suggest trying it. It certainly was a gimmick several years ago when I had to pay for my schoolmate whenever we went out to an incompatible-store because he was too stubborn to bring his wallet with him since he could use Android Pay instead. Now that gas stations and supermarkets everywhere support it I absolute view it as an essential part of life. I just wish that instead of using NFC technology we had adapted QR code payment systems so that paying at dine-in restaurants wouldn't be awkward.
- snowwrestler 7y ago
  I find Apple Pay more convenient that using a credit card because I usually have my phone more quickly accessible to hand than a credit card. The transaction seems to complete faster as well. That said, facial recognition to pay is a huge step backward. The phone has be held just the right way, the side button double-clicked, and you have to look directly at it... and even then it does not work 100% of the time! The fingerprint reader was way better for paying.
  - walshemj 7y ago
    Actually in the UK I find iPhones are slower than contactless cards for my regular bus commute. Transport in the uk is moving to having electronic tickets on their own rfid cards which you store your ticket on which is even quicker
notJim 7y ago
A big part of this is that apparently US credit card companies decided not to include contactless when they switched over to chip cards, in order to save money. Ironically, contactless was becoming fairly common before the move to EMV, but is now pretty rare. I think about half my cards had it a few years ago, but now none do.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  Contactless is also a security concern on actual cards. It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches. Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket.
  - simonebrunozzi 7y ago
    Much better to use contactless from your iphone. You don't broadcast it, it's via bluetooth and only lasts for a few seconds.
    - _bxg1 7y ago
      And isn't your actual credit card number
    - AceJohnny2 7y ago
      > it's via bluetooth NFC (same as contactless CCs), not Bluetooth.
      - simonebrunozzi 7y ago
        Oh my... I don't even know why I wrote Bluetooth. Of course it's NFC. There are some similarities, but it's obviously two different protocols. I stand corrected.
  - riffraff 7y ago
    my contactless cards need a PIN when used for significant money, don't they all? Is skimming a major issue?
sambroner 7y ago
This is quite impressive, although inconclusive... Apple Pay currently accounts for 5% of credit card payments (from article), but, more importantly, this does not include non-card transactions like WeChat! Still, I think that Apples deep ecosystem integration will ultimately allow them to make a really compelling payments platform. The existing work on the Apple Card is surprisingly compelling. By just offering some basic, but fun bookkeeping (the colors changing on the digital card and a list of purchases), Apple has already made a product many of my peers want to use. I expect peer to peer payments to get more attention and some "Apple Health for Money" product to come out in the medium term future.
- intopieces 7y ago
  >this does not include non-card transactions like WeChat! This is common in these articles. For some reason the west is entirely unaware of WeChat, despite it being massive in terms of userbase. I'm starting to see restaurants in the Bay Area that take either Cash or WeChat... no Apple Pay in sight.
taurath 7y ago
5% at the moment seems like an incredibly high number to me, at least in the US. I looked it up here, where the stats say a different number: https://www.pymnts.com/apple-pay-adoption/ https://www.pymnts.com/apple-pay-adoption/ Also latest is about 51% of merchants have compatible equipment. 1.1% of sales is apple pay. Also usage numbers have gone down from 2018 to 2019. Seems like a puff piece to me?
- Brakenshire 7y ago
  They’re claiming 5% of global card transactions, that surely can’t be true, there are quite a few developed countries where iPhones are not that common, and countries where other contactless payment systems are already widespread. And what about middle income and poor countries?
  - jonathanpierre 7y ago
    I think it might be true on the grounds that credit cards are only king in the US and Latin America, whereas they represent less than 10% of cashless payments in the large markets, namely Asia. Developed countries have more accessible and cheaper systems, like M-Pesa. In China, you generally just scan a QR code to make a payment. Neither of these systems piggyback on the expensive and slow credit card system. So, I think this statistic might be as true as it is misleading. Impressive marketshare, just not as big a market.
  - anthonypasq 7y ago
    The U.S. is notoriously behind on this sort of stuff
    - jdminhbg 7y ago
      The US was way ahead on credit cards to begin with, and was then leapfrogged by countries building payment infrastructure with newer technology. There’s no reason the US couldn’t re-leapfrog with its next generation.
    - rsync 7y ago
inviromentalist 7y ago
Time to start talking about breaking up Apple. And what a wonderful thing that would be.
notJim 7y ago
I honestly love Apple Pay, but I don't use it super often because it makes me self-conscious. I feel like a bit of a dick for some reason. If you try to do something "weird" and it doesn't work, people get annoyed, or it feels like an imposition. Even when it works, people sometimes make some kind of comment. Relatedly, it's unpredictable whether it will work or not. It usually does, as long as the card machine says you can "tap", but sometimes it doesn't. This would all be better if I ever saw anyone else use it, but I don't. Edit: wanted to add that here in Portland, we have the special Apple Pay transit wallet for the bus, which is amazing! I only infrequently take the bus, and it's so nice to never worry about whether I have exact change for the fare.
- yalogin 7y ago
  This used to be the case for me but in my area almost every terminal accepts it and so these days I don’t even carry my wallet to pet places.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  I feel this just a little bit too, when there's an actual cashier. It just sort of screams "tech yuppie". But that alone I can live with; I just always make sure to check that it'll work beforehand, because if it actually holds up the line that's super uncomfortable.
- whalesalad 7y ago
  That's an interesting viewpoint. Where do you live? I would imagine you live somewhere that is not along the coastline in the USA. The only time I have ever run into any kind of social friction (percieved or actual) it was only around the time that it had just rolled out and everyone would groan and say stuff like "yeah, it says we do apple pay but it wont work" But after those initial bumps it is really prevalent and easy to use. I never feel like I am inconveniencing anyone.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I just replied in agreement as a sibling to your question. I live in SF and feel similarly sometimes.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dawnerd 7y ago
I just found out it works at gas stations in Canada where I’d normally have to go inside and have them charge my card and sign for it. It’s made traveling a lot nicer when places support.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >I just found out it works at gas stations in Canada where I’d normally have to go inside and have them charge my card and sign for it. Say what? I live in a rural part of Canada and contactless payments are accepted nearly everywhere, most right at the pump. At worst you're using chip and pin. I can't even remember the last time I had to sign my name for a credit card transaction.
  - dawnerd 7y ago
    US credit cards you do, at least for me. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I travel to Canada frequently and buying gas is one of the most frustrating parts of it. Also today a station actually declined my apple pay and I still had to go in. Guess it's not perfect yet.
bitxbit 7y ago
I love Apple Pay for web. It’s seamless compared to Paypal because all you have to do is touch/faceID. It is also ridiculously easy to implement as a developer. If Apple ever goes for the Paypal/Square/Stripe market, they have some very low hanging fruits to pick.
- ec109685 7y ago
  Given everyone is trying to eek every last percent from their conversation funnel, I am really surprised more sites aren’t integrated with Apple Pay for web. In general, the checkout flow is garbage far too often.
cranekam 7y ago
Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it). I assume this is because there is a thing called TWINT [0] here, which covers several payment concepts (peer to peer transfers, point of sale terminals, online) with an equal degree of mediocrity. It's not ubiquitous, fast, or convenient (derp wait while I scan this QR code instead of using NFC). I'd love to be able to use Apple Pay. [0] https://www.twint.ch/en/ https://www.twint.ch/en/
- snovv_crash 7y ago
  The banks seem to be implementing their own version. Eg. UBS now has an icon on their app that puts it into card-payment mode. Only works on Android though.
- ValentineC 7y ago
  > Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it) I've found the official Apple list [1] to be very accurate. There seems to be quite a few on the Switzerland list that don't have (Credit cards) behind them. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT206637 https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT206637
  - cranekam 7y ago
    Thanks for the list. I suspect it's not accurate (e.g. only credit cards issued by Credit Suisse work with Apple Pay, but it doesn't say that on the list) but I'll try to verify some of the others.
- needusername 7y ago
  > I haven't found a single debit card that works with it Well yeah. Because the banks don't make money with debit cards so they do everything possible to sell you a credit card. That's why in Switzerland you have this special variant of a Meastro which you can't pay online. That's a special deal with Mastercard for Switzerland only because Mastercard generally doesn't allow blocking this.
kelnos 7y ago
Not to hijack, but I'm really curious to see how this compares with Google Pay adoption and growth rate. Devices capable of Google Pay are likely more prevalent (well, maybe; there could be a lot of old Android devices out there that don't support it), but I wonder if there are similar trends as with the Apple App Store and Google Play Store, where customers of the former are much more likely to spend money. It would be interesting to possibly make some generalizations about how much money Apple vs. Android users spend in general, even outside their respective app stores. Maybe not useful generalizations, but I'm interested nonetheless. (I say this as an Android user who loves Google Pay and wishes it were available for web-based payments like Apple Pay is.)
- Marsymars 7y ago
  Devices capable of Google Pay may be more prevalent, but banks are less likely to support Google Pay. (Some of which is due to the fact that on Android, unlike iOS, it's possible to roll your own NFC payment app, so some banks insist on building their own trashy payment apps rather than supporting Google Pay.)
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I'd be curious about that as well: the actual bank support numbers. I'm just one data point, but all of my cards (even my bank's debit card) are supported by GPay, even though all of them also have a dedicated app. I've never tried to use the dedicated apps for NFC payment, though, so I'm not sure if they have that feature.
    - Marsymars 7y ago
      Doesn't cover users per bank, but the Google/Apple support docs are usually thorough. In Canada, Apple Pay has about three times (48) as many supporting banks as Google Pay (15). The Apple support is mostly a longer tail - four of the five largest banks support both. (With TD as the holdout that supports Apple Pay and only their own app on Android.) For me, that works out to 5 banks supporting both Google/Apple Pay, 3 supporting Apple Pay only, 2 supporting nothing. Google Pay: https://support.google.com/pay/answer/7405561?hl=en https://support.google.com/pay/answer/7405561?hl=en Apple Pay: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204916#canada https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204916#canada
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gregdoesit 7y ago
I had dinner with members of the Apple Pay team a year or two back. I asked them, “So, who are your competitors? Google Pay? PayPal?” They laughed. “No, we don’t really track them. We have one main competitor. Credit cards. We care about Apple Pay being better, easier and more convenient to use than any of your credit cards.” And then, finishing dinner, the guy paid with his Apple Watch, using Apple Pay. The waiter was stunned - he’d never seen anything like that before.
- yalogin 7y ago
  You can pay using Apple Pay at restaurants? Has to be a special case right?
  - jonathanbull 7y ago
    I've done this loads of times. Albeit in the UK and Canada, where the card reader is brought to your table.
    - jvzr 7y ago
      Just to add that, at least here in France, it is not at all uncommon to stand up and go pay at the terminal on the way out, instead of waiting at the table. They usually have a card reader anyway, but it's a matter of convenience for the restaurant I think. (Tbf I'm talking about everyday restaurant, not gastronomic experiences)
  - draw_down 7y ago
    Special case in what sense? It's a payment method, you pay for things with it. What's the big deal.
  - needusername 7y ago
    Sure you can. It's not a special case. That's the beauty of Apple Pay. Industry standard protocol. If the merchant accepts contactless credit cards then Apple Pay will work. No need for any special hardware, any special software or any contract changes.
pgm8705 7y ago
I wish restaurants in the midwest would start embracing contactless payments. A local place I frequently visit finally introduced portable terminals that the wait staff brought to your table and I was pumped. They reverted back to the old way a few months later because "people got confused and didn't like having to interact with the terminal."
- ddenisen 7y ago
  This is amusing because having waitstaff bring over a terminal for you to pay with your card is pretty much ubiquitous in a lot of countries, such as Canada and Russia.
Taniwha 7y ago
I bet these numbers don't include WePay/WeChat use in China ....
herpderperator 7y ago
What frustrates me is the way everyone talks about Apple Pay as if it's the standard in mobile payments. Everyone calls contactless payments Apple Pay, which is technology other countries have had for many years built into the cards themselves via an NFC chip. Visa calls it PayWave(TM), because you just wave your credit card over the terminal to pay. I have been taking advantage of the benefits of contactless pay since 2011 with PayWave. Phones later came out with NFC support and now we can emulate this "contactless" signal with the phone's NFC chip rather than those in credit cards. Other than the added security of making up a new card number for your particular credit card when you add it to your digital wallet (read: Google Pay or Apple Pay or Samsung Pay, etc.), and separate accounting, there's no difference from contactless payments that have been around for OVER a decade now. We talk about Apple Pay as if that's the standard. We talk about Apple Pay as if it's what allows you to pay with your watch. It's not. Contactless payments are. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment. The intro paragraph: > Contactless payment systems are credit cards and debit cards, key fobs, smart cards, or other devices, including smartphones and other mobile devices, that use radio-frequency identification (RFID) or near field communication (NFC, e.g. Samsung Pay, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Fitbit Pay, or any bank mobile application that supports contactless) for making secure payments. So as you can see, Google Pay is practically identical to Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, etc. and neither of them are the standard. NFC payments are. And they don't have to be in an Apple device.
- zie 7y ago
  My understanding is Google Pay, Samsung Pay, etc allow Google and friends to track your CC purchases because of the way it's designed, where Apple Pay is designed in such a way that Apple can not tell who you are spending your money with.
  - hu3 7y ago
    What happens when someone asks for a refund?
    - zie 7y ago
m0zg 7y ago
Meanwhile Fred Meyer, Costco and QFC keep resisting. It's ridiculous: I can pay for watered down beer with Apple Pay in a village deep in the bowels of Mother Russia (using my watch, no less), but not in a QFC down the street. Instead, Kroger launched its own "Kroger Pay" which has worse chances of taking off than a lead balloon.
- nottorp 7y ago
  You mean they don't accept contactless payments at all? The seller's terminal does not have to know about Apple Pay for it to work, the phone just pretends it's a card.
Simulacra 7y ago
Now if only I could carry my ID around on my iPhone I wouldn't need to carry a wallet.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Until you drop you phone and break it or it barfs on you in some other way. There was high profile case of an iPhone user who got fined over £600 because the phone died and they could not show the rail ticket to the guard on the train. She was lucky enough to get it picked up by the national press, probably knew someone.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    Rail crimes are one of very few criminal offences in the UK where you don't have to intend to break the law to be convicted. That means if you can't show your ticket to a guard when requested, even if you did have a ticket on your phone, did have a mobile battery pack, did have a spare wifi hotspot for signal, did have a spare phone incase the first failed, and did have a spare finger in case of your finger suddenly falling off, you are still breaking the law, and can still get a criminal record and go to prison for it. And due to the way rail companies are allowed to prosecute you directly rather than involving the police or CPS, you can be sure they will prosecute in these cases.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    > There was high profile case of an iPhone user who got fined over £600 because the phone died and they could not show the rail ticket to the guard on the train. With certain NFC transit cards, the iPhone can now emulate them even when the main OS shut down due to low battery!
  - alteria 7y ago
    The author, Jemima Kelly, is an (excellent) reporter for FT Alphaville. If I remember correctly, her consequential losses were much larger. Not that TfL should care about that, but an example of how things can spiral. FT link (free) [1] FTAlphaville link (registration required, no paywall) [2] [1] https://www.ft.com/content/e8a177d4-dfae-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc https://www.ft.com/content/e8a177d4-dfae-11e9-9743-db5a37048... [2] https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/10/09/1570632197000/When-fintech-goes--disastrously--wrong/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/10/09/1570632197000/When-fi...
georgeburdell 7y ago
Semi-related, but is there a way to setup Apple Pay without disclosing your fingerprint? Unlike passwords, fingerprints are not protected by the 5th Amendment https://time.com/3558936/fingerprint-password-fifth-amendment/ https://time.com/3558936/fingerprint-password-fifth-amendmen...
- antipaul 7y ago
  Pretty sure you can use PIN, including 6-digit and alphanumeric Or FaceID
  - walterbell 7y ago
    It's unfortunate that Apple Pay is tied to iCloud, so you can't use Apple's payment mechanism without also sharing a range of device data with Apple.
- paxys 7y ago
  You can use a regular password or PIN. However your fingerprint (or face profile in case of FaceID) never leaves your device in the first place.
- gruez 7y ago
  > Unlike passwords, fingerprints are not protected by the 5th Amendment what's the threat model here? that law enforcement will force to make apple pay transactions? that law enforcement will request fingerprint data from apple?
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    Probably that law enforcement will force you to unlock your iPhone.
    - gruez 7y ago
      In that case, couldn't you use your toeprint or something?
vinniejames 7y ago
What percentage is Samsung pay, and the rest of the mobile tap to pay market?
- londons_explore 7y ago
  I believe so far they are all zero percent.
crazygringo 7y ago
I use Apple Pay mainly for two reasons (US-based): 1) Because rewards programs can be so lucrative per-category, I wind up using like 5 different credit cards constantly. That's too thick to keep in my wallet, so I never bothered before... but now it's effortless on my phone. Now I basically get 3-5% back on most stuff instead of the old 1-2%. It adds up. 2) Chips seem to degrade after a while, as anything contact-based seems finicky. Apple Pay doesn't always work on the first try... but it always works by the second. Which is more than I can say for credit cards, god only knows why. So now I really just keep one physical credit card on hand -- the one that gives me most rewards dining out, since you need a card to hand them (in the US anyways) -- and to use for the occasional instance a store's terminal doesn't accept Apple Pay (mostly public transit vending machines these days).
- notyourday 7y ago
  > Chips seem to degrade after a while, as anything contact-based seems finicky. Apple Pay doesn't always work on the first try... but it always works by the second. Which is more than I can say for credit cards, god only knows why. This is the most annoying thing. Chips seem to be much less reliable than the mag stripe and not all systems are NFC. On my daily usage cards in 1/3 of the cases it takes 2-3 tries ( ~30-45 seconds per try ) and in 1/2 of those cases it becomes "Use mag stripe" which takes another 30-45 seconds
  - crazygringo 7y ago
    I dunno, mag stripe was pretty bad too. Remember when all the cashiers would keep some kind of plastic film or tape nearby to fold your card into so the mag stripe would read? Nobody knew why it worked, but it fixed the problem half the time. But I still remember having to call my credit card company to send me an early replacement about half the time due to a mag stripe that just didn't work anymore. Chips are just equally bad in their own way. Some machines take an oddly high amount of force to push it in all the way (it feels like it's in earlier but it's not)... and then there's just some kind of wearing down of contact surfaces or something that blocks the connection other times. It's funny, I never would have expected wireless to be more reliable than physical... but because there are no contacts to wear out, it really is over the long term.
notyourday 7y ago
Apple should get itself a sub with a money transmitter license and skip the settlement networks all together.
aggie 7y ago
Apple Pay is great, but I wish it was more universally accepted at point of sale. But in the US we're not even at consistency in any form of POS payment method. Disney World (Florida) notably spent a BILLION dollars implementing a wonderful contactless payments++ system called MagicBand. [1] Last week I was shocked that at Disneyland (California), where they haven't implemented MagicBand, they not only don't accept Apple Pay or other contactless payments, they weren't even consistent about chip vs. mag swipe! During one transaction, after unsuccessfully swiping, the teller told me to insert the chip in a tone like I've been living under a rock. I had defaulted to swipe after the previous 3 transactions had been. There was no post-it note like many businesses resort to. If even Disney can't get this right in their highly-curated-experience theme park, I'm not holding my breath for universal adoption anytime soon. [1] https://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/ https://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/
- Multicomp 7y ago
  The number of integrations between MagicBand and the existing &/or legacy systems must be staggering. At the very least, there is the integration between the MagicBand and FREEDOM-POS, the point of sale software running at Disney parks. It could be as simple as the band functioning as a reference to the built-in EFT account called 'play money', which is a stored value account generated on a POS and assigned to a given serial number (say, a disposable wristband, season pass card number, MagicBand number) and either filled with cash to store and deplete, or linked to a credit card to charge indirectly. It could be as complex as the MagicBand bypassing FREEDOM entirely and interfacing directly with a back-end server that knows the card details, merely racking up charges over time to be periodically charged directly to the customer's card. Either way, I'd love to get a peek behind the curtain at the Disney IT operations, warts and oddities specifically.
  - digsy 7y ago
    Technology wise, Magic Bands are awesome. You can pay with them in the parks (no fishing around for cash or your credit card), it links to your Disney accounts, you can use them as a ticket to get into the parks and it functions as your door key at Disney hotels and cruise ships. And it all just works. The amount of data they collect from this must be staggering.
dangus 7y ago
Probably off topic: I love Apple Pay for online website purchases. So easy to not have to create an account for everything. For IRL transactions, my contactless card is easier than dealing with my phone, double tapping and face authenticating.
- closetohome 7y ago
  I'm developing a terrible habit of only buying things if the site supports PayPal or Apple Pay.
cageface 7y ago
After some initial teething pains Apple Pay & the card are a pretty nice user experience. I'm hesitant to use this too much though because I feel like I already have too many eggs in Apple's basket. Overall I'm a happy customer these days but I'd still rather depend on a bit more diverse array of hardware & software vendors even if it's less convenient and integrated.
fsajkdnjk 7y ago
dumb * giving their private data way for free, what's new
sreeramb93 7y ago
Apple music and now Apple pay. When I look at Apple, I feel big tech needs to break down.
ckdarby 7y ago
If Apple is serious at crushing PayPal it'll purchase Shopify.
- bitxbit 7y ago
  Why would Apple pay $57B for something they can develop (a whole lot better) in less than a month? I really cringe when I see people use Shopify. But I understand why mom and pops use it. The same reason why they used to fork over hundreds a year just to register a domain with a low effort generic website.
dangerboysteve 7y ago
Are the numbers in the article inflated? The app store uses Apple Pay. Are those numbers being lumped in?
cavisne 7y ago
I don't believe the numbers. Apple pay is not useful outside of the US as contactless cards are better (don't need to unlock your phone and play around with a weird UI to make a payment), and prevalent. Weirdly within the US most cards dont have them. Within the US very few places support NFC, and super common workflows like paying at a sit down restaurant never support it (because of tipping). I suspect the research firm's data is very incomplete, or they are calling contactless payments "Apple Pay".
- mns 7y ago
  I’m in Germany where everyone complains about the old school banks, but have been using only Apple Pay for all payments where contactless is supported (In the last years, it’s more and more places). There are still places that only support German “EC” cards (debit cards, because EC cards don’t exist anymore, but it stuck with people).
- rimliu 7y ago
  I am in Europe and Apple Pay is way more convenient, especially with Apple Watch. No need to fish my card from somewhere, double-tap the button and you are done.
taywrobel 7y ago
We really dodged a bullet with contactless EMV winning out over CurrenC - https://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/
godelmachine 7y ago
The headline says 10% of global card transactions. Just for the sake of askance, is Apple Pay a card transaction?
matt-attack 7y ago
So does the merchant get your name/Info when you pay with Apple Pay? Are you afforded my privacy than w a credit card? I care much more about privacy than security.
- pertymcpert 7y ago
  No.
- jeffwilcox 7y ago
  With Apple Pay your name shows up often as "VALUED CUSTOMER". So that's your privacy name!
joeskyyy 7y ago
Apply Pay in stores is amazing and all, but holy cow the integration when you're using it to pay on your phone while using Safari or something (add in Sign in with Apple) is astounding. It's so smooth, no crazy pages or anything to go through, just click, scan, done. I'd love to see more places adopt it on the Mac store fronts as well.
- Tepix 7y ago
  Isn't the ability for Mobile Safari to check for Apple Pay availability disabled by default?
bad_user 7y ago
I'm from Romania and Apple Pay was introduced here as well. It's super convenient — before it I was thinking of switching to Android, once the battery on my iPhone 8 will become unusable, but Apple Pay will probably keep me on iPhone. No other similar service is available for Android yet.
spratzt 7y ago
As far as i can see the limit on Apple Pay is tied to your underlying card limit. I settled a hotel bill for EUR1200.00 using Apple Pay. Totally painless; no card required.
AdamHede 7y ago
In Denmark we've had a public payment card for a couple of decades now (Dankort). It's a no thrills, dump, payment card, but it is universally accepted, has no fees and virtually impossible to get into financial trouble with. I have to admit, I welcome apple pay with a lot of sceptisism. In my perspective, a lot of innovation in payment over the recent years has been towards better ways of extracting value from basic transactions, or selling confusing products to financially illiterate consumer. With the exception of contactless and mobile payments, which our public solution has picked up as quickly as the commercial vendors.
benbristow 7y ago
Apple Pay is great. Use it all the time as I usually have my phone in my hand, not my wallet. Banks in the UK (incl. Monzo) have recently added security restrictions on contactless cards which means after they've been used contactless so many times (up to £100 I think) you have to use chip-and-pin to 'reset' the limit or you'll be declined. Monzo are quite good in the fact they give you a notification when you're due to chip-and-pin but it's still annoying. Apple Pay doesn't have that restriction and is overall more secure with the FaceID/fingerprint security too. Wonder what the stats are for Google Pay too
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
Meanwhile on Google Pay, I'm unable to confirm my Capital One credit card.

351 points by prostoalex 7y ago

5% by transaction count or by value?

I was visiting Sydney earlier this year and could use Apple Pay on the metro/ferry/bus. Rather than wasting time at a ticket machine, inserting a card, etc, I could literally just tap my phone on the turnstile and "ding" I was in. This was really a game changer.

jherdman 7y ago

In Canada we've had contact-less pay with our credit cards for quite some time. Usage of Apple Pay, etc., is near zero here. Frankly there's just no benefit.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Apple is enough of a behemoth to finally drag this industry forward. I use Apple Pay whenever possible. Mostly because it’s fast and secure. And I don’t mean “fast and secure” like a marketer, but actually fast and actually secure. I can’t believe that the best thing the credit industry could come up with was chip and pin. Slow, insecure[1], and awful experience. Begone, parasites. 1. https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/chip-and-pin-cards-insecure/12787/ https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/chip-and-pin-cards-insecure/1...

bradvl 7y ago
The patents underneath Apple Pay are mostly Mastercard...
fierarul 7y ago
In Romania we have Visa PayWave for years. For small amounts you just wave the card in from of the POS and you are done. For bigger amounts you are asked your PIN and I find that reasonable. I don't see how waving my watch in front of the POS would make this easier, it would actually be more cumbersome depending on how the POS is presented.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  In the US it's usually 'insert card into reader, then wait 30-90 seconds'. I don't know where the delay comes from, but Apple Pay is usually faster for me.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    I actually recently realized that my local pharmacy chain (in WA) had that "wave" NFC icon on screen, so I decided to try tapping my credit card. To my surprise, it worked without a hitch, so now i consciously try to spot those. Quite a few places have those now, but they all seem to also support Apple Pay, so it makes more sense to use that for reliability (because all the ones supporting a card tap also support Apple Pay, but the reverse doesn't seem to be true).
  - judge2020 7y ago
    30-90 seconds is a big exaggeration. Using chip without a pin number takes at most 5 seconds, and using a pin only increases the wait for the duration it takes to enter the code.
    - pathartl 7y ago
      While I agree with you it's definitely an exaggeration, part of the UX that's a bit of a pain for the purchaser is when the terminal is locked up until the cashier confirms the purchase. Either you're forced to leave your card in or you can't put your card in until they're ready. I really think some messaging to change it from "Please Wait" to "Waiting for cashier" would help the real non-tech-savvy people. My parents almost always have issues with the chip because of this. They'll pull out the card at the wrong time and such.
      - kelnos 7y ago
        I think some of this is dependent on the hardware used? At least for Apple/Google Pay, I've noticed that for some merchants (Safeway), I can "pay" at any point while the cashier is still scanning times, while for others (Trader Joe's), I have to wait until the cashier is done and moves the transaction into the payment phase. On the other hand, I don't recall a merchant where I could physically insert my card whenever I wanted, so the A/G Pay option is better in many/most places, even if there are some where you have to wait.
hrdwdmrbl 7y ago
IMHO, chip and pin is quite good in Canada. But yes, I too use Apple Pay whenever possible. I feel like I'm doing my small part to drag the industry forward. (Though my secret hope is that Visa and Mastercard get replaced with something else. Hopefully that's easier to do after their intermediated by Apple Pay)

avocado4 7y ago

> Apple Pay accounts for about 5% of global card transactions and is on pace to handle 1-in-10 such payments by 2025, according to recent trend data compiled by Bernstein, a research firm.

avocado4 7y ago

BART and Muni need to start accepting Apple Pay ASAP. You can already do it in the UK and many other countries. Adoption of technologies like NFC payments in public transport is a good metric to see how competent a local government is.

kelnos 7y ago
Looks like there are plans for this[0] (both support for a dedicated app and digital wallets); Wikipedia suggest 2021, but I expect it won't be out by next year. I actually assumed Clipper was RFID, but turns out it's NFC after all (the Wikipedia article also notes that it's a common misconception that it uses RFID). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_card#Clipper_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_card#Clipper_2.0
wikiman 7y ago
New York is very quickly rolling out OMNY, which does support apple pay. It makes me happy, and I can't wait until I can buy my monthly that way
- brlewis 7y ago
  Also Portland, Oregon - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207958 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207958 Chicago and Miami are likely to follow suit since they already support Fitbit Pay (disclaimer: my employer, but I don't speak for them) - https://www.fitbit.com/us/technology/fitbit-pay/banks https://www.fitbit.com/us/technology/fitbit-pay/banks
- jrockway 7y ago
  OMNY is neat. You do not need to turn your phone's screen on to use it, and it works for a while after your phone's battery dies. It is still slower than what I'm used to in Japan, where people have been paying for transit with their phone since 2001 or 2002. (Tokyo also went from 50-ish pilot stations to 500 production stations in just a few months. In New York, I think 2023 is the estimated completion date?)
cbhl 7y ago

hprotagonist 7y ago

I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's often very hard or not possible to enter discount codes or other special checkout options like "pick up in store" when using the apple pay button(s); when I don't have any codes, I dearly appreciate not having to make an account for that merchant and i'm significantly more likely to spend money at websites that support it.

needusername 7y ago
> It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM Nope. That's deliberately confusing Apple marketing. You get one PAN per device. The new "number" is just the EMV unpredictable number. You get that with any EMV card. https://emvlab.org/emvtags/show/t9F37/ https://emvlab.org/emvtags/show/t9F37/ > and not care about skimming. Because the PAN is only valid for online authorized EMV transactions.
- anamexis 7y ago
  So, yep? They didn't claim it was a unique feature of Apple Pay.
  - needusername 7y ago
    They make it sound like there is a special "Apple sauce" that they built and strongly suggest they generate a new PAN for every transaction. The suggest that a "token" instead of a PAN is used for the transaction. This is very misleading. If you read it very carefully they are not wrong, but for the uninitiated a wrong impression is crated. They are using an industry standard protocol that is 25 years old.
    - reaperducer 7y ago

ksec 7y ago

They will accelerate if they could roll out Apple Card around the world.

judge2020 7y ago
I wonder why this is. Maybe it's because there's some limited number of markets outside the US Goldman Sachs can legally do business with? If so, I imagine Apple has to find a card partner for those other markets. Edit: I realize Apple Pay in other markets would be hard if they wanted to keep the 1%/2% daily cash feature due to transaction fee limits, as the other comment has said.
- babypuncher 7y ago
  Places like the EU put strict limits on processing fees, making perks like Apple Card's 2% cashback non-viable.
stefan_ 7y ago
What does the rest of the world want to do with this? Europe doesn't care for >2% transaction fees, and to people in China used to the convenience of sending money around with WeChat, this whole credit card number business must look positively ancient. Plastic cards and P(iece)O(f)S(hit) terminals with a RJ45 connector? No man, you just scan this QR code here.
- princekolt 7y ago
  You should revisit your concept of what Europe likes. Even in Berlin, the cash-only capital of Europe, I almost never use cash anymore.
  - jon-wood 7y ago
    Europe loves card payments, but you’re much more likely to see people using debit cards because the EU regulates card fees, making it much less common to get credit cards that do cash back or similar reward programs.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mikestew 7y ago

Apple Pay makes many purchases almost an impulse buy for me. "Hmm, that looks interesting...and you take Apple Pay? And I am buying it from someone other than Amazon, without my credit card getting stolen again? Take my money with a single click!"

Angostura 7y ago
Wait until you see the rather nifty charity billboards that you can donate by waving your phone at them. Saw a photo of one on a bus shelter in the UK
- filoleg 7y ago
  That's actually a genius idea. While I strongly believe that everyone should do some research about any charity before they donate to it, the tappable/waveable donation boards would definitely reduce friction to donating (as well as bringing up awareness of the charity to be researched in the first place).
  - fphhotchips 7y ago
    A few hospitals here in Australia have this to donate to their associated foundations, but in the cafe near the payment station. You've just paid for something, and it takes another 3s to donate - it's almost too easy to be nice without thinking!

mrosett 7y ago

I thought Apple pay was really dumb... and then I started using it. Especially with an Apple Watch: when I get to checkout, I can fumble with my wallet, dig out a card, wait ten seconds for the chip to read, and then put the card away.... or I can tap a button on my watch twice and wave it near the reader. Done.

ghaff 7y ago
It's nice when traveling with an Apple Watch outside the US. I can do transactions without the whole "sigh, I need to find a pen so this American can sign a receipt." (There's a fairly low limit to Apple Pay transactions for US accounts in some places but it's still nice to pick up a few items in a grocery store.)
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I forgot to pack my traveling cards on a trip once and found myself on the Navajo Nation without any plastic. Apple Pay on my Apple Watch saved my bacon. Hotel, restaurant, gift shop, trading post... every place that takes plastic there take Apple Pay. I think the reason is that because of limited connectivity, they're a little late to the credit card game, so all of their terminals and processes are the new tech. There's no legacy gear or processes to upgrade from. Which is similar for the whole credit card arena in general. People keep posting on here about America being backwards when it comes to credit cards and in the "civilized world" (Is there a more condescending Eurotrash phrase than that?) the banking system is more advanced. The fact is that America has had mass deployment of credit cards for far longer than other nations, so naturally it will take longer to upgrade. Greenfields are always easier to build on.
grogenaut 7y ago
When I first got the chip it was like 30 seconds to auth. Now it's about 1-3 seconds, basically put it in, beep, pull it out. Like a less-likely-to-fail swipe.
danans 7y ago
Contactless phone payments work great, but I find contactless watch payments to be really physically awkward, for a number of reasons. First, the watch is worn on the wrong side of the hand for conveniently accessing the contactless reader. Second, the contactless reader is itself usually on a counter below requiring me to stoop over to make my wrist reach it. The extra 1 foot of reach you get with a phone is very helpful in this situation. Third, I like seeing the visual feedback confirming on the screen of the payment device, which you can't do with a watch held with it's face to the reader. Sure, it vibrates, but that isn't a great indicator of success IMO.

rb808 7y ago

Wow I always thought this was a gimmick that no one used, I'll have to evaluate. even 5% doesn't sound right to me (of course the headline is an estimate). > Apple Pay accounts for about 5% of global card transactions and is on pace to handle 1-in-10 such payments by 2025,

ladberg 7y ago
I find it super convenient from my Apple Watch and use it for most of my payments, but I'd agree that I'm also surprised by 5%. I rarely see anyone else using it even in the Bay Area at stores that have supported it for years.
JCharante 7y ago
Do you also think Android Pay (or is it Google Pay now?) is a gimmick? I highly suggest trying it. It certainly was a gimmick several years ago when I had to pay for my schoolmate whenever we went out to an incompatible-store because he was too stubborn to bring his wallet with him since he could use Android Pay instead. Now that gas stations and supermarkets everywhere support it I absolute view it as an essential part of life. I just wish that instead of using NFC technology we had adapted QR code payment systems so that paying at dine-in restaurants wouldn't be awkward.
snowwrestler 7y ago
I find Apple Pay more convenient that using a credit card because I usually have my phone more quickly accessible to hand than a credit card. The transaction seems to complete faster as well. That said, facial recognition to pay is a huge step backward. The phone has be held just the right way, the side button double-clicked, and you have to look directly at it... and even then it does not work 100% of the time! The fingerprint reader was way better for paying.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Actually in the UK I find iPhones are slower than contactless cards for my regular bus commute. Transport in the uk is moving to having electronic tickets on their own rfid cards which you store your ticket on which is even quicker

notJim 7y ago

A big part of this is that apparently US credit card companies decided not to include contactless when they switched over to chip cards, in order to save money. Ironically, contactless was becoming fairly common before the move to EMV, but is now pretty rare. I think about half my cards had it a few years ago, but now none do.

_bxg1 7y ago
Contactless is also a security concern on actual cards. It only stores a single number (like the stripe, unlike the chips or phone-based NFC), and it effectively "broadcasts" it in a radius of a couple of inches. Very easy to skim even while it's still in your pocket.
- simonebrunozzi 7y ago
  Much better to use contactless from your iphone. You don't broadcast it, it's via bluetooth and only lasts for a few seconds.
  - _bxg1 7y ago
    And isn't your actual credit card number
  - AceJohnny2 7y ago
    > it's via bluetooth NFC (same as contactless CCs), not Bluetooth.
    - simonebrunozzi 7y ago
      Oh my... I don't even know why I wrote Bluetooth. Of course it's NFC. There are some similarities, but it's obviously two different protocols. I stand corrected.
- riffraff 7y ago
  my contactless cards need a PIN when used for significant money, don't they all? Is skimming a major issue?

sambroner 7y ago

This is quite impressive, although inconclusive... Apple Pay currently accounts for 5% of credit card payments (from article), but, more importantly, this does not include non-card transactions like WeChat! Still, I think that Apples deep ecosystem integration will ultimately allow them to make a really compelling payments platform. The existing work on the Apple Card is surprisingly compelling. By just offering some basic, but fun bookkeeping (the colors changing on the digital card and a list of purchases), Apple has already made a product many of my peers want to use. I expect peer to peer payments to get more attention and some "Apple Health for Money" product to come out in the medium term future.

intopieces 7y ago
>this does not include non-card transactions like WeChat! This is common in these articles. For some reason the west is entirely unaware of WeChat, despite it being massive in terms of userbase. I'm starting to see restaurants in the Bay Area that take either Cash or WeChat... no Apple Pay in sight.

taurath 7y ago

5% at the moment seems like an incredibly high number to me, at least in the US. I looked it up here, where the stats say a different number: https://www.pymnts.com/apple-pay-adoption/ https://www.pymnts.com/apple-pay-adoption/ Also latest is about 51% of merchants have compatible equipment. 1.1% of sales is apple pay. Also usage numbers have gone down from 2018 to 2019. Seems like a puff piece to me?

Brakenshire 7y ago
They’re claiming 5% of global card transactions, that surely can’t be true, there are quite a few developed countries where iPhones are not that common, and countries where other contactless payment systems are already widespread. And what about middle income and poor countries?
- jonathanpierre 7y ago
  I think it might be true on the grounds that credit cards are only king in the US and Latin America, whereas they represent less than 10% of cashless payments in the large markets, namely Asia. Developed countries have more accessible and cheaper systems, like M-Pesa. In China, you generally just scan a QR code to make a payment. Neither of these systems piggyback on the expensive and slow credit card system. So, I think this statistic might be as true as it is misleading. Impressive marketshare, just not as big a market.
- anthonypasq 7y ago
  The U.S. is notoriously behind on this sort of stuff
  - jdminhbg 7y ago
    The US was way ahead on credit cards to begin with, and was then leapfrogged by countries building payment infrastructure with newer technology. There’s no reason the US couldn’t re-leapfrog with its next generation.
  - rsync 7y ago

inviromentalist 7y ago

Time to start talking about breaking up Apple. And what a wonderful thing that would be.

notJim 7y ago

I honestly love Apple Pay, but I don't use it super often because it makes me self-conscious. I feel like a bit of a dick for some reason. If you try to do something "weird" and it doesn't work, people get annoyed, or it feels like an imposition. Even when it works, people sometimes make some kind of comment. Relatedly, it's unpredictable whether it will work or not. It usually does, as long as the card machine says you can "tap", but sometimes it doesn't. This would all be better if I ever saw anyone else use it, but I don't. Edit: wanted to add that here in Portland, we have the special Apple Pay transit wallet for the bus, which is amazing! I only infrequently take the bus, and it's so nice to never worry about whether I have exact change for the fare.

yalogin 7y ago
This used to be the case for me but in my area almost every terminal accepts it and so these days I don’t even carry my wallet to pet places.
_bxg1 7y ago
I feel this just a little bit too, when there's an actual cashier. It just sort of screams "tech yuppie". But that alone I can live with; I just always make sure to check that it'll work beforehand, because if it actually holds up the line that's super uncomfortable.
whalesalad 7y ago
That's an interesting viewpoint. Where do you live? I would imagine you live somewhere that is not along the coastline in the USA. The only time I have ever run into any kind of social friction (percieved or actual) it was only around the time that it had just rolled out and everyone would groan and say stuff like "yeah, it says we do apple pay but it wont work" But after those initial bumps it is really prevalent and easy to use. I never feel like I am inconveniencing anyone.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I just replied in agreement as a sibling to your question. I live in SF and feel similarly sometimes.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dawnerd 7y ago

I just found out it works at gas stations in Canada where I’d normally have to go inside and have them charge my card and sign for it. It’s made traveling a lot nicer when places support.

aguyfromnb 7y ago
>I just found out it works at gas stations in Canada where I’d normally have to go inside and have them charge my card and sign for it. Say what? I live in a rural part of Canada and contactless payments are accepted nearly everywhere, most right at the pump. At worst you're using chip and pin. I can't even remember the last time I had to sign my name for a credit card transaction.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  US credit cards you do, at least for me. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I travel to Canada frequently and buying gas is one of the most frustrating parts of it. Also today a station actually declined my apple pay and I still had to go in. Guess it's not perfect yet.

bitxbit 7y ago

I love Apple Pay for web. It’s seamless compared to Paypal because all you have to do is touch/faceID. It is also ridiculously easy to implement as a developer. If Apple ever goes for the Paypal/Square/Stripe market, they have some very low hanging fruits to pick.

ec109685 7y ago
Given everyone is trying to eek every last percent from their conversation funnel, I am really surprised more sites aren’t integrated with Apple Pay for web. In general, the checkout flow is garbage far too often.

cranekam 7y ago

Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it). I assume this is because there is a thing called TWINT [0] here, which covers several payment concepts (peer to peer transfers, point of sale terminals, online) with an equal degree of mediocrity. It's not ubiquitous, fast, or convenient (derp wait while I scan this QR code instead of using NFC). I'd love to be able to use Apple Pay. [0] https://www.twint.ch/en/ https://www.twint.ch/en/

snovv_crash 7y ago
The banks seem to be implementing their own version. Eg. UBS now has an icon on their app that puts it into card-payment mode. Only works on Android though.
ValentineC 7y ago
> Not in Switzerland! Over here pretty much only credit cards work with Apple Pay. I haven't found a single debit card that works with it (other than Revolut, which is only a bank if you squint at it) I've found the official Apple list [1] to be very accurate. There seems to be quite a few on the Switzerland list that don't have (Credit cards) behind them. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT206637 https://support.apple.com/en-sg/HT206637
- cranekam 7y ago
  Thanks for the list. I suspect it's not accurate (e.g. only credit cards issued by Credit Suisse work with Apple Pay, but it doesn't say that on the list) but I'll try to verify some of the others.
needusername 7y ago
> I haven't found a single debit card that works with it Well yeah. Because the banks don't make money with debit cards so they do everything possible to sell you a credit card. That's why in Switzerland you have this special variant of a Meastro which you can't pay online. That's a special deal with Mastercard for Switzerland only because Mastercard generally doesn't allow blocking this.

kelnos 7y ago

Not to hijack, but I'm really curious to see how this compares with Google Pay adoption and growth rate. Devices capable of Google Pay are likely more prevalent (well, maybe; there could be a lot of old Android devices out there that don't support it), but I wonder if there are similar trends as with the Apple App Store and Google Play Store, where customers of the former are much more likely to spend money. It would be interesting to possibly make some generalizations about how much money Apple vs. Android users spend in general, even outside their respective app stores. Maybe not useful generalizations, but I'm interested nonetheless. (I say this as an Android user who loves Google Pay and wishes it were available for web-based payments like Apple Pay is.)

Marsymars 7y ago
Devices capable of Google Pay may be more prevalent, but banks are less likely to support Google Pay. (Some of which is due to the fact that on Android, unlike iOS, it's possible to roll your own NFC payment app, so some banks insist on building their own trashy payment apps rather than supporting Google Pay.)
- kelnos 7y ago
  I'd be curious about that as well: the actual bank support numbers. I'm just one data point, but all of my cards (even my bank's debit card) are supported by GPay, even though all of them also have a dedicated app. I've never tried to use the dedicated apps for NFC payment, though, so I'm not sure if they have that feature.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    Doesn't cover users per bank, but the Google/Apple support docs are usually thorough. In Canada, Apple Pay has about three times (48) as many supporting banks as Google Pay (15). The Apple support is mostly a longer tail - four of the five largest banks support both. (With TD as the holdout that supports Apple Pay and only their own app on Android.) For me, that works out to 5 banks supporting both Google/Apple Pay, 3 supporting Apple Pay only, 2 supporting nothing. Google Pay: https://support.google.com/pay/answer/7405561?hl=en https://support.google.com/pay/answer/7405561?hl=en Apple Pay: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204916#canada https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204916#canada

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

gregdoesit 7y ago

I had dinner with members of the Apple Pay team a year or two back. I asked them, “So, who are your competitors? Google Pay? PayPal?” They laughed. “No, we don’t really track them. We have one main competitor. Credit cards. We care about Apple Pay being better, easier and more convenient to use than any of your credit cards.” And then, finishing dinner, the guy paid with his Apple Watch, using Apple Pay. The waiter was stunned - he’d never seen anything like that before.

yalogin 7y ago
You can pay using Apple Pay at restaurants? Has to be a special case right?
- jonathanbull 7y ago
  I've done this loads of times. Albeit in the UK and Canada, where the card reader is brought to your table.
  - jvzr 7y ago
    Just to add that, at least here in France, it is not at all uncommon to stand up and go pay at the terminal on the way out, instead of waiting at the table. They usually have a card reader anyway, but it's a matter of convenience for the restaurant I think. (Tbf I'm talking about everyday restaurant, not gastronomic experiences)
- draw_down 7y ago
  Special case in what sense? It's a payment method, you pay for things with it. What's the big deal.
- needusername 7y ago
  Sure you can. It's not a special case. That's the beauty of Apple Pay. Industry standard protocol. If the merchant accepts contactless credit cards then Apple Pay will work. No need for any special hardware, any special software or any contract changes.

pgm8705 7y ago

I wish restaurants in the midwest would start embracing contactless payments. A local place I frequently visit finally introduced portable terminals that the wait staff brought to your table and I was pumped. They reverted back to the old way a few months later because "people got confused and didn't like having to interact with the terminal."

ddenisen 7y ago
This is amusing because having waitstaff bring over a terminal for you to pay with your card is pretty much ubiquitous in a lot of countries, such as Canada and Russia.

Taniwha 7y ago

I bet these numbers don't include WePay/WeChat use in China ....

herpderperator 7y ago

What frustrates me is the way everyone talks about Apple Pay as if it's the standard in mobile payments. Everyone calls contactless payments Apple Pay, which is technology other countries have had for many years built into the cards themselves via an NFC chip. Visa calls it PayWave(TM), because you just wave your credit card over the terminal to pay. I have been taking advantage of the benefits of contactless pay since 2011 with PayWave. Phones later came out with NFC support and now we can emulate this "contactless" signal with the phone's NFC chip rather than those in credit cards. Other than the added security of making up a new card number for your particular credit card when you add it to your digital wallet (read: Google Pay or Apple Pay or Samsung Pay, etc.), and separate accounting, there's no difference from contactless payments that have been around for OVER a decade now. We talk about Apple Pay as if that's the standard. We talk about Apple Pay as if it's what allows you to pay with your watch. It's not. Contactless payments are. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment. The intro paragraph: > Contactless payment systems are credit cards and debit cards, key fobs, smart cards, or other devices, including smartphones and other mobile devices, that use radio-frequency identification (RFID) or near field communication (NFC, e.g. Samsung Pay, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Fitbit Pay, or any bank mobile application that supports contactless) for making secure payments. So as you can see, Google Pay is practically identical to Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, etc. and neither of them are the standard. NFC payments are. And they don't have to be in an Apple device.

zie 7y ago
My understanding is Google Pay, Samsung Pay, etc allow Google and friends to track your CC purchases because of the way it's designed, where Apple Pay is designed in such a way that Apple can not tell who you are spending your money with.
- hu3 7y ago
  What happens when someone asks for a refund?
  - zie 7y ago

m0zg 7y ago

Meanwhile Fred Meyer, Costco and QFC keep resisting. It's ridiculous: I can pay for watered down beer with Apple Pay in a village deep in the bowels of Mother Russia (using my watch, no less), but not in a QFC down the street. Instead, Kroger launched its own "Kroger Pay" which has worse chances of taking off than a lead balloon.

nottorp 7y ago
You mean they don't accept contactless payments at all? The seller's terminal does not have to know about Apple Pay for it to work, the phone just pretends it's a card.

Simulacra 7y ago

Now if only I could carry my ID around on my iPhone I wouldn't need to carry a wallet.

walshemj 7y ago
Until you drop you phone and break it or it barfs on you in some other way. There was high profile case of an iPhone user who got fined over £600 because the phone died and they could not show the rail ticket to the guard on the train. She was lucky enough to get it picked up by the national press, probably knew someone.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  Rail crimes are one of very few criminal offences in the UK where you don't have to intend to break the law to be convicted. That means if you can't show your ticket to a guard when requested, even if you did have a ticket on your phone, did have a mobile battery pack, did have a spare wifi hotspot for signal, did have a spare phone incase the first failed, and did have a spare finger in case of your finger suddenly falling off, you are still breaking the law, and can still get a criminal record and go to prison for it. And due to the way rail companies are allowed to prosecute you directly rather than involving the police or CPS, you can be sure they will prosecute in these cases.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  > There was high profile case of an iPhone user who got fined over £600 because the phone died and they could not show the rail ticket to the guard on the train. With certain NFC transit cards, the iPhone can now emulate them even when the main OS shut down due to low battery!
- alteria 7y ago
  The author, Jemima Kelly, is an (excellent) reporter for FT Alphaville. If I remember correctly, her consequential losses were much larger. Not that TfL should care about that, but an example of how things can spiral. FT link (free) [1] FTAlphaville link (registration required, no paywall) [2] [1] https://www.ft.com/content/e8a177d4-dfae-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc https://www.ft.com/content/e8a177d4-dfae-11e9-9743-db5a37048... [2] https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/10/09/1570632197000/When-fintech-goes--disastrously--wrong/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/10/09/1570632197000/When-fi...

georgeburdell 7y ago

Semi-related, but is there a way to setup Apple Pay without disclosing your fingerprint? Unlike passwords, fingerprints are not protected by the 5th Amendment https://time.com/3558936/fingerprint-password-fifth-amendment/ https://time.com/3558936/fingerprint-password-fifth-amendmen...

antipaul 7y ago
Pretty sure you can use PIN, including 6-digit and alphanumeric Or FaceID
- walterbell 7y ago
  It's unfortunate that Apple Pay is tied to iCloud, so you can't use Apple's payment mechanism without also sharing a range of device data with Apple.
paxys 7y ago
You can use a regular password or PIN. However your fingerprint (or face profile in case of FaceID) never leaves your device in the first place.
gruez 7y ago
> Unlike passwords, fingerprints are not protected by the 5th Amendment what's the threat model here? that law enforcement will force to make apple pay transactions? that law enforcement will request fingerprint data from apple?
- Hamuko 7y ago
  Probably that law enforcement will force you to unlock your iPhone.
  - gruez 7y ago
    In that case, couldn't you use your toeprint or something?

vinniejames 7y ago

What percentage is Samsung pay, and the rest of the mobile tap to pay market?

londons_explore 7y ago
I believe so far they are all zero percent.

crazygringo 7y ago

I use Apple Pay mainly for two reasons (US-based): 1) Because rewards programs can be so lucrative per-category, I wind up using like 5 different credit cards constantly. That's too thick to keep in my wallet, so I never bothered before... but now it's effortless on my phone. Now I basically get 3-5% back on most stuff instead of the old 1-2%. It adds up. 2) Chips seem to degrade after a while, as anything contact-based seems finicky. Apple Pay doesn't always work on the first try... but it always works by the second. Which is more than I can say for credit cards, god only knows why. So now I really just keep one physical credit card on hand -- the one that gives me most rewards dining out, since you need a card to hand them (in the US anyways) -- and to use for the occasional instance a store's terminal doesn't accept Apple Pay (mostly public transit vending machines these days).

notyourday 7y ago
> Chips seem to degrade after a while, as anything contact-based seems finicky. Apple Pay doesn't always work on the first try... but it always works by the second. Which is more than I can say for credit cards, god only knows why. This is the most annoying thing. Chips seem to be much less reliable than the mag stripe and not all systems are NFC. On my daily usage cards in 1/3 of the cases it takes 2-3 tries ( ~30-45 seconds per try ) and in 1/2 of those cases it becomes "Use mag stripe" which takes another 30-45 seconds
- crazygringo 7y ago
  I dunno, mag stripe was pretty bad too. Remember when all the cashiers would keep some kind of plastic film or tape nearby to fold your card into so the mag stripe would read? Nobody knew why it worked, but it fixed the problem half the time. But I still remember having to call my credit card company to send me an early replacement about half the time due to a mag stripe that just didn't work anymore. Chips are just equally bad in their own way. Some machines take an oddly high amount of force to push it in all the way (it feels like it's in earlier but it's not)... and then there's just some kind of wearing down of contact surfaces or something that blocks the connection other times. It's funny, I never would have expected wireless to be more reliable than physical... but because there are no contacts to wear out, it really is over the long term.

notyourday 7y ago

Apple should get itself a sub with a money transmitter license and skip the settlement networks all together.

aggie 7y ago

Apple Pay is great, but I wish it was more universally accepted at point of sale. But in the US we're not even at consistency in any form of POS payment method. Disney World (Florida) notably spent a BILLION dollars implementing a wonderful contactless payments++ system called MagicBand. [1] Last week I was shocked that at Disneyland (California), where they haven't implemented MagicBand, they not only don't accept Apple Pay or other contactless payments, they weren't even consistent about chip vs. mag swipe! During one transaction, after unsuccessfully swiping, the teller told me to insert the chip in a tone like I've been living under a rock. I had defaulted to swipe after the previous 3 transactions had been. There was no post-it note like many businesses resort to. If even Disney can't get this right in their highly-curated-experience theme park, I'm not holding my breath for universal adoption anytime soon. [1] https://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/ https://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/

Multicomp 7y ago
The number of integrations between MagicBand and the existing &/or legacy systems must be staggering. At the very least, there is the integration between the MagicBand and FREEDOM-POS, the point of sale software running at Disney parks. It could be as simple as the band functioning as a reference to the built-in EFT account called 'play money', which is a stored value account generated on a POS and assigned to a given serial number (say, a disposable wristband, season pass card number, MagicBand number) and either filled with cash to store and deplete, or linked to a credit card to charge indirectly. It could be as complex as the MagicBand bypassing FREEDOM entirely and interfacing directly with a back-end server that knows the card details, merely racking up charges over time to be periodically charged directly to the customer's card. Either way, I'd love to get a peek behind the curtain at the Disney IT operations, warts and oddities specifically.
- digsy 7y ago
  Technology wise, Magic Bands are awesome. You can pay with them in the parks (no fishing around for cash or your credit card), it links to your Disney accounts, you can use them as a ticket to get into the parks and it functions as your door key at Disney hotels and cruise ships. And it all just works. The amount of data they collect from this must be staggering.

dangus 7y ago

Probably off topic: I love Apple Pay for online website purchases. So easy to not have to create an account for everything. For IRL transactions, my contactless card is easier than dealing with my phone, double tapping and face authenticating.

closetohome 7y ago
I'm developing a terrible habit of only buying things if the site supports PayPal or Apple Pay.

cageface 7y ago

After some initial teething pains Apple Pay & the card are a pretty nice user experience. I'm hesitant to use this too much though because I feel like I already have too many eggs in Apple's basket. Overall I'm a happy customer these days but I'd still rather depend on a bit more diverse array of hardware & software vendors even if it's less convenient and integrated.

fsajkdnjk 7y ago

dumb * giving their private data way for free, what's new

sreeramb93 7y ago

Apple music and now Apple pay. When I look at Apple, I feel big tech needs to break down.

ckdarby 7y ago

If Apple is serious at crushing PayPal it'll purchase Shopify.

bitxbit 7y ago
Why would Apple pay $57B for something they can develop (a whole lot better) in less than a month? I really cringe when I see people use Shopify. But I understand why mom and pops use it. The same reason why they used to fork over hundreds a year just to register a domain with a low effort generic website.

dangerboysteve 7y ago

Are the numbers in the article inflated? The app store uses Apple Pay. Are those numbers being lumped in?

cavisne 7y ago

I don't believe the numbers. Apple pay is not useful outside of the US as contactless cards are better (don't need to unlock your phone and play around with a weird UI to make a payment), and prevalent. Weirdly within the US most cards dont have them. Within the US very few places support NFC, and super common workflows like paying at a sit down restaurant never support it (because of tipping). I suspect the research firm's data is very incomplete, or they are calling contactless payments "Apple Pay".

mns 7y ago
I’m in Germany where everyone complains about the old school banks, but have been using only Apple Pay for all payments where contactless is supported (In the last years, it’s more and more places). There are still places that only support German “EC” cards (debit cards, because EC cards don’t exist anymore, but it stuck with people).
rimliu 7y ago
I am in Europe and Apple Pay is way more convenient, especially with Apple Watch. No need to fish my card from somewhere, double-tap the button and you are done.

taywrobel 7y ago

We really dodged a bullet with contactless EMV winning out over CurrenC - https://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/

godelmachine 7y ago

The headline says 10% of global card transactions. Just for the sake of askance, is Apple Pay a card transaction?

matt-attack 7y ago

So does the merchant get your name/Info when you pay with Apple Pay? Are you afforded my privacy than w a credit card? I care much more about privacy than security.

pertymcpert 7y ago
No.
jeffwilcox 7y ago
With Apple Pay your name shows up often as "VALUED CUSTOMER". So that's your privacy name!

joeskyyy 7y ago

Apply Pay in stores is amazing and all, but holy cow the integration when you're using it to pay on your phone while using Safari or something (add in Sign in with Apple) is astounding. It's so smooth, no crazy pages or anything to go through, just click, scan, done. I'd love to see more places adopt it on the Mac store fronts as well.

Tepix 7y ago
Isn't the ability for Mobile Safari to check for Apple Pay availability disabled by default?

bad_user 7y ago

I'm from Romania and Apple Pay was introduced here as well. It's super convenient — before it I was thinking of switching to Android, once the battery on my iPhone 8 will become unusable, but Apple Pay will probably keep me on iPhone. No other similar service is available for Android yet.

spratzt 7y ago

As far as i can see the limit on Apple Pay is tied to your underlying card limit. I settled a hotel bill for EUR1200.00 using Apple Pay. Totally painless; no card required.

AdamHede 7y ago

In Denmark we've had a public payment card for a couple of decades now (Dankort). It's a no thrills, dump, payment card, but it is universally accepted, has no fees and virtually impossible to get into financial trouble with. I have to admit, I welcome apple pay with a lot of sceptisism. In my perspective, a lot of innovation in payment over the recent years has been towards better ways of extracting value from basic transactions, or selling confusing products to financially illiterate consumer. With the exception of contactless and mobile payments, which our public solution has picked up as quickly as the commercial vendors.

benbristow 7y ago

Apple Pay is great. Use it all the time as I usually have my phone in my hand, not my wallet. Banks in the UK (incl. Monzo) have recently added security restrictions on contactless cards which means after they've been used contactless so many times (up to £100 I think) you have to use chip-and-pin to 'reset' the limit or you'll be declined. Monzo are quite good in the fact they give you a notification when you're due to chip-and-pin but it's still annoying. Apple Pay doesn't have that restriction and is overall more secure with the FaceID/fingerprint security too. Wonder what the stats are for Google Pay too

PopeDotNinja 7y ago

Meanwhile on Google Pay, I'm unable to confirm my Capital One credit card.