19 ms·

Living without a SIM card

• MarkusWandel 7y ago
  A reasonable compromise is to just have a SIM card with a basic prepaid phone (and SMS) plan but no data. Lots of people I know do that. Phone is online at home, in the workplace, at restaurants etc, and you can communicate.
• paper-boat 7y ago
  I've also tried going SIM-less for a few years. Wifi hotspots are frequently around you rarely find yourself in a situation needing a data plan. But the main problem is 2FA many services force you to use now. Going without a data plan is wonderful, but every now and then, having a couple minutes are SMS services is great.
  • kome 7y ago
    I lived SIM free basically all my adult life, but I had to buy a SIM last September, because a new European banking regulation that requires 2FA. SMS 2FA is a joke tho.
    • Ayesh 7y ago
      > SMS 2FA is a joke tho. Yes, everyone knows. But it's better than nothing.
      • ryukafalz 7y ago
        Not always. If the provider can be social engineered into granting you access to the account after proving access to that number then I’m not sure “better than nothing” is that solid.
        • jotm 7y ago
          Better than having a strong password bypassed using shoddy recovery procedures.
        • icebraining 7y ago
          Of course, that means it's not 2FA, just 1FA.
        • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
          It's potentially worse than nothing because you can steal someone's sim card and then use that to reset their account password. This is because (as in almost every company that uses text messages for 2fa) you use the sms to authenticate the reset.
      • ferzul 7y ago
        Or these shitty fake 2fa photo tan things they have here in Germany. Something you have (your phone, with saved passwords) and something you have (your wife's phone, or just a device to take a photo of your screen to show it back to your actual phone) isn't 2fa. But it makes it so painfully difficult to do anything that a valid step for security, like quickly contacting the bank to say “my phone is untrustworthy” via another device, becomes unreasonable, difficult and unlikely. (But in general, trying to do anything in Germany is a painful experience. The business culture here seems to be, “if it's beneficial to the customer, it's a cost centre to us so please remove it”.)
  • keverets 7y ago
    For the US and Canada, there is JMP.chat which can be used to 2FA over SMS without a SIM. Uses standard XMPP so can be used from a computer or phone while on WiFi. There are other proprietary services which can do the same for no monetary cost (usually lots of advertising and tracking, though).
    • icebraining 7y ago
      Of course, that means you're giving "Denver Gingerich and others" full access and control over the number and channel used to receive unencrypted authentication tokens.
• acd 7y ago
  Being offline is good for your privacy and training concentration span.
• The_mboga_real 7y ago
  Still feeling the need to share your entire life on the HN. Good job!
• neilkakkar 7y ago
  Not trolling: How does your life feel different knowing your data is not being stored in some database? Losing out on all those conveniences sounds miserable to me.
  • deugtniet 7y ago
    It's called peace of mind. Some people worry about their privacy being violated. Without the sim, there is less tracking, so less to worry about.
    • sarakayakomzin 7y ago
      >It's called peace of mind Is it? because from my perspective you've taken yourself out of a few databases (AT&T / Verizon / Telco) and plopped yourself into a few other databases (2nd Line, Grab) without having a whole lot of benefit.
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  • nicky0 7y ago
    Some of us struggle with having constant connection to the internet in our pocket. Its a distraction at its mildest, and an damaging, health affecting addiction at worst (social media, and 24/7 work/communication expectations especially). Well done to those of you who are able to carry around a smartphone and regulate yourselves but some of us need to take more drastic action to cut it out.
    • danieldk 7y ago
      Get a SIM without a data plan? You can still call or SMS people, get SMS 2FA when required, but you can't use social media apps. I cut my phone use by removing most social media apps. I have also disabled notifications for most remaining apps, except for Facetime and iMessage (since I use them for high signal/noise ratio communication with friends an family).
• melling 7y ago
  When I travel overseas, if I can’t get a cheap SIM and data plan, I’m living for days trying to find public WiFi. Colombia has lots of free WiFi in parks, for example. We should be doing this everywhere.
  • danieldk 7y ago
    I fear things will go in the opposite direction with ubiquitous 4G. Very often 4G is already much faster than most WiFi hot spots, to the point that I don't even bother anymore and just use personal hot spot on my laptop.
  • dtmf-io 7y ago
    The problem is that free public WiFi is wildly variable in quality, whereas 4G is usually quite good. Most of the time I just tether even if there's WiFi available since I can use my data plan in most countries and the WiFi is usually disappointing. Also, many countries now require public hotspots to verify the user by getting them to receive an SMS. In some countries it even has to be a local number, because they have compulsory SIM registration, so requiring a local number lets them tie the Internet usage to an identity.
  • alltakendamned 7y ago
    You can also get 2GB prepaid for 3 weeks for less than 2 USD :)
• Ayesh 7y ago
  If saving money is the reason, go for a prepaid card. German/Dutch prepaid cards have far long credit life. I travel full-time nowadays and I can use my KPN number for less than €1 per year. German Alditalk credit lasts 24 months IIRC, and topping up extends the credit shelf life. Pretty much every SIM card has free incoming SMS when roaming. USSD are also free with some carriers. Losing SIM card is less of a hassle with eSIMs. Perhaps other than tracking concerns, I'm totally not convinced with the reasoning.
  • testis321 7y ago
    > Perhaps other than tracking concerns, I'm totally not convinced with the reasoning. Tracking is not an issue, if you keep your phone in airplane mode (wifi and bluetooth can be enabled on most phones, but mobile network stays disabled), or if you just remove the sim card, and put it back, on those rare occasion when you need it (so you don't have to bother other people)
    • paublyrne 7y ago
      If you have wifi turned on then what's to stop you being tracked. I imagine Google Maps can track you using a combination of GPS and WiFi, as well as working out your likely route between locations for periods you're out of contact.
      • csydas 7y ago
        Precisely. With any outgoing connection, your phone is constantly looking, reporting, and talking. IIRC, didn't Google (or maybe even some Open Initiative) do a huge mapping of routers based just on the MAC and overlays with GoogleMaps or OpenStreet? A connection exposes you to surveillance, and yes, it's worse with SIMs, but having WiFi on just adds a little latency to the same thing. Public Routers that you're discovering do the same thing. I had thought this was the entire point of iOS devices randomizing their MACs when scanning available networks (no idea if this ever got shipped with Android devices). I am probably in the "nutty" quadrant when it comes to concerns about tracking, surveillance concerns, and online privacy, but I also don't really like needlessly inconveniencing myself just to undermine the entire purpose of why the inconvenience is necessary in the first place. Your phone is always talking -- SIM card or not. I'm not even sure modern non-smart phones (flip revivals and such) are wifi free. Such protections are a good ideal, but a lot of people have an unrealistic idea of the threat actors they're trying to protect against.
• valgeirg 7y ago
  use tor, brave, vpn whatever. use prepaid unregistered sim. get online when you want, live :-) or just cut off you leg to fix your toe.
  • AdrianB1 7y ago
    Getting a prepaid unregistered SIM is no longer possible in an increasing number of countries. I think most of Europe requires identification to buy a prepaid SIM.
    • wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
      Have you ever heard of LycaMobile?
      • dtmf-io 7y ago
        Most likely they have heard of the MVNO/"service reseller" LycaMobile, but how does that respond to their comment at all? LycaMobile still require you to register your ID with them in countries that have that rule.
    • dtmf-io 7y ago
      The UK notably doesn't, and most providers are still doing "roam like at home" with the EU despite the UK having left.
    • dannyw 7y ago
      Thankfully this is still possible in the US... for now.
    • simpss 7y ago
      I have not had an issue buying a prepaid sim in eastern europe AND EU is a "free roaming" zone, so if it works in the Eastern parts, it's going to work everywhere else as well.
• hasfhashdahsd 7y ago
  So you freed yourself of the hassle of paying for a SIM, but constantly rely on others who have a SIM to get around? German Freenet Funk offers one-day-one-euro prepaid SIM; you can cancel any day. Satellite.me gives you a German mobile number through an app for free (SMS support is in alpha, though).
• Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  Some of the inconveniences listed aren't really a thing: For example, you can use google services on devices with no sim so long as you have it connected to wifi. I figured this out because i had a new phone that wouldn't accept the SIM size, so I carried both that and the working phone with the sim for a short time. Google Maps and Open street maps works offline, but you need to be online to, say, get driving directions. Google will still give turn-by-turn directions offline, though. It simply won't have the same features of your choice of maps. I think facebook still works so long as you have signed up from a computer, but I might be wrong. I've only considered having it on my tablet (that has never had a sim), but never bothered to install it on my phone. So many things depend more on the device being on the internet (through whatever means) than having the sim card. The main thing you need it for is phone calls, SMS, and roaming internet - and sometimes, banking, but not always. I've realized this because my phone has roaming internet turned off by defaut - I use wifi as my primary phone internet and as it turns out, I pay minimal amounts for the phone (I'm not willing to go without, even though it is rarely used).
  • josteink 7y ago
    > For example, you can use google services on devices with no sim Considering there have been WiFi-only Android tablets since forever this cannot possibly be news to anyone?
    • pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      It's news to me, I thought you needed (in the UK) a phone number to register with Google. They send you a text message as part of onboarding (or did last I tried). That's common to most online social apps now, perhaps all of them?
      • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
        they have a kind of dark login pattern where it looks like you have to use phone number but you don't have to at least in my country.
• goblin89 7y ago
  > …it's the only thing which has prevented me from having to continually make international calls from a friends phone By relying on other people it is possible to do without many things. However, unless you have other ways of signaling sufficient status or wealth (such as being a digital nomad living abroad in a lower income country), people you continuously rely on for essentials might start treating you with a little less respect.
  • njitbew 7y ago
    My sister’s former boyfriend used to carry a phone without a SIM. His mom ended up calling my sister or our landline to check up on her son. It was annoying AF. Feel free to live off the grid, but please make sure you don’t leech off of those around you.
    • thaumasiotes 7y ago
      The example doesn't quite seem to connect to the moral. Maybe he didn't want his mom to call him. If a third party calls you to inquire about me, why is that my problem?
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      • plufz 7y ago
        Because you care about people around you and don’t want them to suffer because of indirect consequences of your actions...?
        • throwaway2_75 7y ago
          You guys have a warped sense of reality if this is suffering to you. Oh noo you had to answer a phone. Fu k me.
• peterburkimsher 7y ago
  I live without 3G on my phone, though I still have a SIM card for receiving "emergency" calls. I haven't topped it up though, so I can't call out. It's been wonderful to make me focus on face to face conversations with people, rather than checking notifications all the time. I ask them to add me on Facebook, or make a note of their email address. If I can get online, I use mbasic.facebook.com with no ads, which loads quickly on an old phone. My phone wakes me up with an alarm, but I'm not flooded with depressing Apple News first thing in the morning. On the bus, I read books (the Bible and others, Edward Snowden's autobiography last year, currently The Shockwave Rider). I also browse offline Wikipedia (personally Wiki2Touch, but I've heard good things about Kiwix). I use Galileo Offline Maps with MOBAC-scraped tiles, without turn by turn directions. Battery life is significantly better without 3G, and makes the old iPhone 4S quite usable. Google Voice is often allowed for 2FA, and I use that when I need to receive SMS (e.g. TransferWise). I could go without a SIM card entirely, but for the rare occasions when I do need to receive a call (e.g. I agree a place and time to meet someone, and they're late), then I still keep it in my phone. It worries me to read that the US immigration department are using anonymised cell tower histories to trace people, but I don't know if removing the SIM card would solve that.
  • pzumk 7y ago
    > It worries me to read that the US immigration department are using anonymised cell tower histories to trace people, It worries me to read you’re still using Facebook even though it looks like you value privacy. Why’s that? (Not trolling, serious question)
    • peterburkimsher 7y ago
      Keeping in touch with friends in other countries. Rarely, there's even targeted ads that I actually want (e.g. bands that are playing concerts nearby). I try to avoid the news feed, and usually just use messages and events. Unlike most other chat apps, Facebook has backwards compatibility for old phones. There's a limited sense of control: I choose when to update my location, employer info, Liked pages, etc. Yes, they know about me, but I also use it to analyse myself [1]. I have no expectation of privacy for the things I post, but I'm therefore more careful about what I post, which Lists I share content with, and what metadata is hidden in that content. [1] https://github.com/peterburk/sortlikes https://github.com/peterburk/sortlikes
• torh 7y ago
  Without a SIM card it would be a lot harder to do my taxes, access my online bank, check my insurance, etc., because the SIM card is used to veriy my identity using a solution called BankID. (https://www.bankid.no/en/company/ https://www.bankid.no/en/company/) It's a lot easier then the alternative with OTP codes, especially since BankID is now supported by a lot of different sites and services. From government, banking, phone companies, etc.
  • pjc50 7y ago
    How has Norway solved the "slamming" problem, where attackers ring the phone company and get a duplicate SIM?
    • kiloreven 7y ago
      The BanID SIM-application has to be installed over the air and activated through online banking. It's bound to one physical SIM, so an attacker would need to get into the online banking in the first place to reinstall the SIM app onto the new card. I believe the auth keys are stored on the SIM as part of this solution, and regenerated every time it's reactivated, invalidating the existing SIM.
      • pjc50 7y ago
        This is .. remarkably sensible, and a good example of using the secure elements of the SIM card for the intended purpose. Makes me wonder why more places don't do this.
        • Aardwolf 7y ago
          Why does this have to involve a SIM card though? Why not use the device itself, e.g. authenticator?
          • TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
            Sweden briefly had a SIM card-based system before scrapping it in favour of a pure smartphone app.
• dmos62 7y ago
  I used a dumb phone until recently. It was only possible, because my partner's phone could fulfil both of our "smart" needs. It's not easy to get around that. If there's just 1 service that requires a smartphone that you can't do without, you have to get one.
  • nicky0 7y ago
    An iPod touch or iPad/Tablet will also suffice to access most "app only" services.
• deleted 7y ago
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• Mike_Andreuzza 7y ago
  I had been living without a sim card for almost 2 years, and just use wifi. Loved it. No I have to because I am starting my own company and have no choice, otherwise I would have removed tphone completely. But I will do it
• NotRealNameObv 7y ago
  > For me getting rid of the SIM was a conscious decision after I caught Telkomsel in Indonesia running MITM attacks to inject ads over HTTP communications If this is bothering you, you shouldn't really be online at all.
• Kipters 7y ago
  For maps: Here Wego (new name for HERE Maps) can work completely offline once you download the necessary maps (even directions). It's been a lifesaver in the pre-EU-roaming era
• joshlk 7y ago
  What the point? It’s so much hassle for no reason. If you want to be not dependent on something then don’t use a smart phone. But having a smart phone without a SIM seems the worse of both worlds.
  • icebraining 7y ago
    Why? Smartphones are just pocket-sized computers. Does a computer really need a cellular modem to be useful?
    • hilbert42 7y ago
      A good point that I've not made in my post above. When people learn that I've no SIM card in my smartphones they inevitably remark why bother having one. The fact is smartphones are excellent computers and I use them as such all the time in applications where cellular modems aren't necessary.
• ppafin 7y ago
  Mobile without cellular and therefore without SIM: https://github.com/xxlsec/proteusdevice/wiki https://github.com/xxlsec/proteusdevice/wiki
• nmstoker 7y ago
  One major advantage is the impact on phone battery life - partly because various services aren't repeatedly pinging over the mobile network (especially in "notspots"), WiFi tends not to burn through battery. And partly because it tends to change your behaviour to do more focused things (the phone isn't constantly trying to distract you as it often can't, so you don't then waste time and power on these distractions). I don't think I'd abandoned a SIM card in the near future but having used my old phone without the SIM as an alternate for my new phone on a few occasions, the old phone battery went from being awful to lasting way longer than my brand new phone of comparable specs.
  • Ayesh 7y ago
    You can always use the phone on flight mode (to turn off radio), and selectively turn on GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc).
    • RupertEisenhart 7y ago
      Flight mode is the only way of living
  • ehnto 7y ago
    I got a smart watch after being staunchly anti-smartwatch, because I can now leave my phone at home. It was a compromise that allowed me to stay connected via phone while not having a distraction-factory in my pocket. I don't have anything but the phone app and weather on there, and I have a whitelist so only friends and family can contact me. I delay text messages 'til I get home if I can, and I get maybe 2 phone calls a week. My biggest issue with the phone was it could distract me with a notification, and I could dive into it for too long after dealing with the notification. That doesn't happen on the watch because frankly, they can't do all that much and they are a pain in the ass to use for anything more than a quick sentence. Could I just "be a better person" and be disciplined with my phone? Totally. But I've tried numerous times, so this is my method and it's been working well.
  • ip26 7y ago
    Cellular really isn't all that power hungry, the problem is really data period, i.e. your phone being awake at all. If you get a 500MB plan, set everything unimportant to restrict background data, and turn off WiFi your phone can last for days.
• Shalle135 7y ago
  He mention the risk of having stuff injected in the header while being connected to an isp. But doesn’t care about public hotspots? Personally I would rather trust a couple ISP’s than random hotspots.
  • madamelic 7y ago
    Nor the fact that they recommend using free services that monetize through ads, especially call and text providers. Any free service should ring major, major alarms for any one advocating for privacy.
    • icebraining 7y ago
      On the other hand, any paid service must be tracking you, at least for billing purposes, whereas you might be able to reduce the tracking that free services do.
• dathinab 7y ago
  My First reaction was that it sounds awesome and I want to try it for a view month. Then I realized that most German delivery services require a phone number and email address (like when you order a new shelf or phone or computer or ...). Then I realized that the messenger I use to communicate with my family bases identity on the phone number (not my choice, but nothing I can easily change). Then I realize that my main relevant usage is to get live information about public transport. Well I guess I'm not quite ready for it yet maybe when I managed to convince everyone to switch to a non phone number based messenger.
  • Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
    > Then I realized that the messenger I use to communicate with my family bases identity on the phone number It is only required upon registration or a change of a phone. Most messengers don't require (nor really have a way of figuring out) whether you have the same simcard in the phone, or whether you have a simcard in it at all.
    • icebraining 7y ago
      In fact, I used to use Whatsapp on a WiFi-only tablet. The Simcard was on a featurephone that didn't have any support for installing apps.
  • mrweasel 7y ago
    Denmark is pretty similar to Germany, in that a ton of services require you to have a phone number. Technically there’s rarely a reason for you to give out your number, and for stuff I don’t care about I’ll enter the number of a loan company or the number of a telcos support. Still, I actually somewhat concerned that you’re basically not allowed to not have a phone. No one will actually call you anymore, but they do want your phone number. I can’t think of a single service that would require you to have a phone, it’s just some weak attempt at “authenticating” you, via someone else.
  • bergie 7y ago
    > most German delivery services require a phone number and email address As somebody who lived years in Germany without having the ability to make or receive calls (there was a SIM with a number, but connected to a data-only tablet)... Most delivery companies lack proper input validation, so you can either enter "n/a" or 00000000000 to the phone field. Never had issues with deliveries because of this
• therealmarv 7y ago
  and how not to be independent. The essence is to be sometimes/often dependent on other people.
• whorleater 7y ago
  This is modern minimalism to its peak: getting rid of your stuff by relying on others
  • luckylion 7y ago
    Wasn't that modern minimalism from the get-go?
    • teddyh 7y ago
      It has been so ever since Thoreau lived at Walden Pond and waxed poetically of self-reliance and living alone, but had his mother take care of washing his clothes.
• eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  Nobody is pointing at the elephant in the room: GSM, WiFi, TCP/IP, SIM cards, debit cards could provide strong privacy for everybody by default. Requiring random, temporary, untracked addresses by law is possible and achievable. Yet, society accepts corporate surveillance for the masses and privacy for the powerful and wealthy.
• markus_zhang 7y ago
  Living without SIM Card is actually quite doable (I haven't made phone calls for a while and non of previous ones was mandatory), and you can always get a number using IP Phone or something else. Living without Internet, on the other hand...
• dangus 7y ago
  To me, the price paid to a cellular provider is actually preferable to relying on other people's WiFi networks. Using someone else's WiFi isn't a security advantage, it's the opposite. You're bumming off of someone's network and not even paying them - so who knows what their motivations might be. Who knows if the network that the SSID claims to be is actually that network. Is Starbucks Free WiFi actually run by Starbucks or is it a malicious router placed in the same vicinity? I don't actually know until I connect. I would suggest the alternative of using a pay-as-you-go plan on a SIM card, something that doesn't cost a lot with low usage. If you want to be more disconnected you can simply turn on airplane mode. In almost any country in the world you can pay less than $10/month to maintain a phone line and SIM card.
  • sandworm101 7y ago
    >> Is Starbucks Free WiFi actually run by Starbucks or is it a malicious router placed in the same vicinity? Both. The Starbuck Free WiFi is also a malicious router. All routers should be seen as malicious. That threat model is why we have secure websites. That's why VPNs are always a good idea, or Tor if you are really worried. But even then, those routers too must be deemed untrustworthy. At no point should one ever trust middlemen, be them routers or used car salesmen.
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    • scarface74 7y ago
      Are there any sites of any importance that don’t use https? What’s the threat model?
    • Nextgrid 7y ago
      The entire Internet is based on routers aka middlemen. Even your VPN provider is a middleman. If I had to choose, I'd trust a known compromised access point that doesn't know my identity over Yet Another VPN provider to whom I paid money and gave valid billing details. Both are shady, at least the first only gets small bits of traffic that happen to be unencrypted here and there and doesn't have my identity and can only snoop when I'm at the location of the AP, the other one has my valid identity and billing details, e-mail address and happens to snoop on me all the time I have the VPN on regardless of my physical location.
• dana321 7y ago
  I first thought this might be about eSIM; the electronic SIM that doesn't require a physical SIM card.
  • smoovb 7y ago
    Your phone sees this as normal SIM and connects to cell towers in the same way, so not sure what this achieves?
• Causality1 7y ago
  >The feeling of moving around without your whereabouts being constantly beamed into a database can feel quite liberating. Hate to break it to you buddy but you're still being tracked and your database updates every time you connect to wifi. Frankly you're being tracked much more precisely than I am with my GPS and wifi turned off.
  • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    Not true if your phone randomizes your mac address. Comes automatically on my phone. The next level is services on your phone logging in an saying "hey this is fred", you have to block that. Which thing were you referring to?
• chewz 7y ago
  I envy the OP. Unfortunately since September 2019 living without SIM card became (practically) illegal in EU. > most online payments above €30 to go through an extra level of verification such as entering a code received via a text message. [2] Most banks unwisely chosen SMS as Strong Customer Authentication providing little choice to customers. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/payment-services-psd-2-directive-eu-2015-2366_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/payment-services-psd-2-directi... [2] https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/psd2 https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/psd2
  • dangus 7y ago
    Unless you summarize the law we don't know what you mean by "practically illegal." When you say "practically illegal" I can only assume you mean "not illegal."
    • chewz 7y ago
      I have edited my answer. Most institutions I know have chosen SMS for Strong Customer Authentication which means sooner or later you in practical life will need your personal SIM card (banking, doctor visit, e-prescription, e-government etc.). Unless you chose to live off the grid for real.
      • dangus 7y ago
        But also, I think you have that situation understood the other way around. SMS was chosen because everyone has it already. So it's not a matter of being forced to have it, it's a matter of "all other alternatives are less widespread." I think there are actually more people globally with access to mobile phones than people who have access to basic sanitation, i.e. flushing toilets. I'm sure that many or most of those organizations have alternative, non-electronic means of interaction - such as phone, paper (writing checks), or in-person. That is the alternative to using a SIM card.
        • chewz 7y ago
          Yes but situation before September was that I could use my account without SIM card. Now access to my account requires having a SIM card and a phone. Now imagine taking all my six SIM cards on vacation to Thailand just because you may be in need to urgently use one of my multiple bank or brokerage accounts ;-)
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• overgard 7y ago
  If it's for privacy, wouldn't a burner phone make more sense? Otherwise leaching off everyone around you to save a bit of money... seems like it would get old pretty quickly
  • smoovb 7y ago
    The 2 device solution seems best. One device for connectivity and essentials, the other device for personal stuff. Prepaid sims are so cheap, can't see how this is about saving money.
    • reportgunner 7y ago
      I have been using this for the past two years and I'm very happy. One dumbphone with 5-7 days battery life that does only SMS and Voice calls. One smartphone that I use for browsing, google authenticator, twitter and some apps and occasionally as a hotspot. Usually the battery dies in either of those, not in both at the same time. This means that when my phone dies I'm left with either only SMS and Voice or only Internet. Both phones have dual SIM support so I can keep swapping the prepaid SIMs when needed.
• grecy 7y ago
  Five years ago I quit my Software Engineering job, and I got rid of my dumb phone. I've not had a SIM since. My sister gave me her ~4 year old HTC One phone, which I take out and power on about once a month to use as an alarm or use google authentication or some such. I'm a person who is a little addicted to the internet, so for me I think of it like an alcoholic not walking into bars - I'd be that guy constantly reaching for my phone in social situations, so it's simply better if I avoid the temptation and just don't have one. A few thoughts: - Yes, I occasionally ask humans for directions. It's actually kind of novel and always starts a conversation. - I had to talk to my bank for an hour to let me use email as my verification option. Works fine now. - I have wifi at home, so I have tons of contact with my family using my laptop and video chat, messenger, etc. I spend more than enough time online. - I have a large social media presence, but it never 'bothers' me. I do it for 15 minutes a day on my laptop, then I put it away and I never get a single notification during the day. - I thoroughly enjoy sitting in a bar or other social setting and looking around the table to see who wants to make eye contact and talk vs. who is staring at their phone. Many times I'm the only person at a large table not using a phone. - Sometimes I miss out on social stuff because friends are organizing on whatsapp or even messenger an I don't open my laptop so I don't see it. I honestly think this wouldn't change if I had a phone, because I'd turn off notifications and only look at it a few times a day. - I've saved a lot of money over the years - It certainly is inconvenient at times, and I'm currently flirting with the idea of getting a SIM for the old HTC so I can take creit card payments. So be it. I probably won't install any apps.
• saint_angels 7y ago
  What if mobile operator can give you a fixed mobile number, and periodically changing ones, that forward SMS/calls to fixed one? Give fixed number to relatives, variable to fb. Would you pay for this service?
  • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    Probably. But the whole thing is, I don't want every service to use my mobile number to track me as I register for my grocery card frequent customer (10 cents of lettuce), I want that to be anonymous. Instead it's not, they must be centralizing that. I want something like a virtual sms provider on my phone that (1) protects my privacy (ha), (2) hands out virtual sms numbers for services. It knows that at say costco I'm sms number 1234, and at safeway I'm sms number 456. I use the app on my phone to manage this. Another user on this service gets a different number at safeway than I do (but it's unique for them). Because there aren't an infinite number of these, the numbers the service has get randomly shared among the users. So someone else would eventually get 456 for a service that use, but it's not "me".
• hilbert42 7y ago
  My smartphones NEVER have SIM cards in them—as I'm not that stupid so as to become just another easy target of surveillance capitalism! Instead, they connect by Wi-Fi to external portable routers that do have SIMs installed in them. As such, these phones can connect to the internet but cannot be used be used to make telephone calls. Thus, there cannot be any cross-reference between my actual telephone number and my internet activity. In addition, my smartphones use LineageOS without any Google Apps (GApps) installed and their browsers always have JavaScript disabled. Right, I have absolutely no need for social media, Facebook etc, and I never use any of Google's services such as Gmail—except perhaps search via an anonymous metasearch engines such as DuckDuckGo. So how do I actually communicate? I use a separate dumb phone that has no internet access. Oh, BTW, I never order stuff online via a smartphone, nor do I use smartphones for email. So, am I a Luddite? Definitely not, I've always been a high tech worker, I was an early adopter of mobile phone technology, and I had one of Motorola's "bricks" the moment they came on the market decades ago. Moreover, if you saw the complex configurations of my smartphones and the ways they have been rooted (with the latest Magisk super-user software, LineageOS and firewall configurations to stop app software phoning home) then you'd realize I'm more a mobile communications platform than a person with a smartphone). You may well ask why do I go to such lengths. It's principle really: as I see it, when I bought my first Motorola "brick" the telephone service was essentially anonymous with the option of users being listed in the telephone directory. Since then governments have deregulated and sold out our phone systems to Big Tech without any of us users ever having had a say in the matter—the damn hide of them! Nowadays, not only has Big Tech (Google, Facebook, Microsoft etc.) usurped our internet but they've also fucked our phone networks by actually integrating their corporations' businesses into our telephone systems—and they've essentially done so without anyone's permission.
  • jhabdas 7y ago
    Best comment in the thread. Thanks for keeping it real, chief.
    • hilbert42 7y ago
      Thank you Sir.
• kaiwen1 7y ago
  I've been without a SIM for over a year. Here are a few more tips: - Google Voice gives you a free number that works anywhere and can be used for texting and 2FA. (There are some exceptions.) - Calling with Google Hangouts is free to some countries, cheap in others, and can be configured to show your Google Voice number as the caller. Unfortunately, the call quality cans be pretty bad, definitely worse than, say, Skype. - Google Maps offline works great on iPhone. It feels liberating to have no SIM. I'm not always reachable, and that's a good thing. I'm not always connected to the internet, also a good thing. I usually near urban or suburban areas, so free WiFi is everywhere. When I want to connect, I connect. Easy. Along with living without SIMs, my family also has a policy of No Screen Day (NSD) once a week. We all put our phones, computers, etc in closet at 11pm and don't touch them until 6am two days later. No TV, no going to movies theaters, no screens of any kind. We love our NSDs. They cause us to do different kinds of things, sometimes just read books. It usually the best day of the week.
  • gormandizer 7y ago
    I'm inclined to argue that ditching a SIM card in favor of Google voice is simply trading one form of "Surveillance Capitalism" for another.
    • jhabdas 7y ago
      The misperception I feel many of us have - myself included - is basic privacy means nondisclosure. I don't personally trust Google, nor do I have a Google account. But if I were to have a Google account I'd rather share my data - whatever it was I chose to share, which should always be opt-in - with Google's nemesis (Huawei?) and let let them pay us to fight over it.
      • TurkishPoptart 7y ago
        Which email service do you prefer? I'd like to transfer away from gmail.
        • 7y ago
• spicyramen 7y ago
  Good luck if you have young kids and a wife
• rook24 7y ago
  What about https://crypton.sh https://crypton.sh? I saw they do SIM cards (also with encrypted storage), servers in Iceland and privacy stuff.
  • jhabdas 7y ago
    "CRYPTOCURRENCIES SUPPORTED", says the page. I cannot wait to try this.
• cproctor 7y ago
  Getting rid of my SIM card is attractive to me for financial and political reasons, but it would not be compatible with my loved ones' expectations that I be reachable in an emergency. Here's a compromise I have been thinking about; I wonder if anyone has experience making it work (or knows why it won't) on an unlocked iPhone 6: - Buy a pay-as-you-go SIM card with support for SMS and data, but no voice, for when I'm not on WIFI. - When I am on WIFI, use VOIP for calling, and SMS and data as usual. Possible challenges/questions I need to research more: - Will iPhone permit a SIM card without voice? - Can I receive SMS via WIFI when connected and via the burner SIM otherwise? - What service should I use for VOIP when connected, and for accepting voicemails when not connected? - I know Apple overlays its iMessages over SMS (which causes terrible headaches when someone switches from iPhone to Android, and no longer receives iMessages). How should I manage this?
  • cproctor 7y ago
    It looks like I can get most of this through Twilio if I'm willing to do some programming. One issue will be that Twilio is blocked from some 2-factor-authentication systems.
• peterwwillis 7y ago
  Oof. I honestly don't know which is less secure: SMS or e-mail confirmation. Probably the former, but the latter is probably easy to downgrade into plaintext, and can/does does go through random middle boxes. You can add mitigations all over the client but I'm not aware of any requirement for strong authn+z in the protocol. As a second factor, SMS is better, unless that 2FA e-mail is allowed to be different from your primary e-mail, and you only every sign into it from your phone.
• T_ADD 7y ago
  Can only wish i could do that but working for a local telco i have to have a "live" SIM all the time. Because i do callouts 24/7
• reportgunner 7y ago
  > Finally, relax. The world isn't going to end if you don't respond to every message instantly. And your friends and family will come to know you weren't actually trying to ignore them when you didn't respond right away. So much this. Applies to IMs as well.
• dktalks 7y ago
  I would say that this does not work in third world countries and the author also mentions this subtly by saying. >>If you're in Southeast Asia and in need a taxi service, you can ask someone to hail you a Grab. I've done this numerous times in Kuala Lumpur by kindly asking Coffee shop baristas. The feeling of moving around without your whereabouts being constantly beamed into a database can be quite liberating. Imagine asking strangers to book you a cab in a country you cannot speak the language of. While these countries and all first world countries have the ability to hail cabs for instance, asking strangers is basically not the way anyone goes because they don't have a sim card. For example, I do use a data-only SIM in a country I am visiting right now from Google Fi just to do basic things like ordering an Uber, checking bus timings etc. However, I cannot without a local number 1. Order Food Online 2. Get Any services which require mobile number valid in the country for any services I am used to doing all this because I have a phone number in my country, but can't do this in another country, because logistics involve delays and they have to be communicated and a local number is the best way to do it. Without wide-spread messaging only services which work out of the box for every app there is no way any establishment can contact you. Everything is a step in the right direction, for example, people would call on WhatsApp/Facebook Messenger etc, but you don't expect micro-economy people in third world countries to have the skills to do that, they will want a phone number to do it.
• runesor 7y ago
  In Norway (and rest of the world for all i know) banks offer ID auth which is linked to your SIM for online banking. Are there any similar service available without SIM?
• thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
  I have plan that only costs me 8$ a month. I get 150 min, 150 text messages and no Data. it's USmobile, they're awesome. i have no affiliation with them other than being a customer.
• jhabdas 7y ago
  Be the burden you wish to see in the world. https://getsession.org/ https://getsession.org/