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One good thing to come out of certain rating systems, like Uber and Airbnb, is that the users get rated too. If someone is a terrible customer, then they can pr

One good thing to come out of certain rating systems, like Uber and Airbnb, is that the users get rated too. If someone is a terrible customer, then they can probably make things a lot worse for the driver or host than vice versa, and without these scores, drivers might not be able to warn other drivers about them. I would hope that with other modern customer service jobs, that reverse-ratings are always employed. It is a measurable way to improve the jobs of customer service workers.

aprdm 7y ago
I think there’s a bit of an imbalance as customers can easily create new accounts
- rock_hard 7y ago
  Not really...most of these services require to register with a phone number creating a pretty high barrier to create additional accounts for the common folk
  - xnyan 7y ago
    If you wanted to rent an Airbnb and you couldn’t because your phone number was associated with a negatively reviewed account, anyone who had the ability to get a phone number has the ability to get a second. It may be a minor inconvenience but not a particularly costly one. If I was a renter and wanted to disassociate from bad reviews, I imagine the easiest way to do it would be to transfer overship of the property to a holding company or similar. This is far harder to do and there’s far more cost.
  - gruez 7y ago
    >most of these services require to register with a phone number creating a pretty high barrier to create additional accounts for the common folk getting a prepaid sim is a "high barrier"?
    - jaxn 7y ago
      Absolutely. Do you want to keep that SIM around for the next trip and the next?
    - Godel_unicode 7y ago
      Yes.
asiachick 7y ago
honestly IMO that's a horrible anti-feature. If I get bad service or ripped off I want to be able to tell anyone and everyone "STAY AWAY!" but instead I know that if I do that no one will rent to me. Why would they? They can just make sure to choose only people that never post a bad review.
- Retric 7y ago
  It could be a useful feature as long as the feedback is anonymous. Unfortunately, companies running ranking systems have their own best interests in the forefront which causes issues.
  - leppr 7y ago
    Exactly, it's an incentive game. Airbnb has an incentive to maintain high rankings across the board, because customers compare ratings across platforms as if they're equivalent. If they see a majority of 3/5 on Airbnb, they're just going to go on Booking.com and book a 4.5/5 hotel instead. The only way to avoid this I can imagine is relying on cryptographic zero-knowledge proofs to defer ratings to an external network (ideally decentralized, but a neutral third-party ala TripAdvisor could work too). The platform gives the customer and provider a token when the transaction takes place, and they can use it to anonymously sign a review on the external ratings platform.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
Actually, what I've found on Airbnb is that everyone just rates everyone high to either avoid rating retaliation or to avoiding seeming like a dick / hard customer. I suspect it's the latter -- there really is no upside to being an honest critic. You'll rent a place that ends up being on the noisy highway and the worst rating you'll find is "great for early risers!" The rating system does not work. Airbnb doesn't care about rating inflation because it just makes everything look like 5-star experience. Uber is frustrating for other reasons. I've never made an Uber driver wait for me, I'll greet the driver, and I can't imagine how someone can be a better customer. I have a 4.1 rating and can't get VIP because of my rating. My girlfriend doesn't even believe in getting up to leave the house until the app tells her the Uber is there. She constantly calls uber for large loud drunk groups, redirects her rides, and yammers on her phone the whole ride. She has a 4.8+. Aside, my girlfriend also rates all Uber drivers 3/5 because that's an average rating. They get a 4/5 if they go above and beyond. I actually though 5-star systems had merits until I met her. Now I'm firmly against them.
- jacques_chester 7y ago
  I gave up giving anything other than 5 because if I do that, I get hounded for an explanation. I know they think this "proves" their dedication to excellence!!1!, but it mostly proves that the ratings are essentially bullshit.
  - jdminhbg 7y ago
    I’m in the same boat. I’m not worried about ratings creep for providers; normalizing based on a user’s other ratings is a solved problem. But being forced to write 300 characters about why you gave a 4 instead of a 5 means I only rate less than 5 to legitimately warn the public.
- failuser 7y ago
  Do you have an explanation for this? It sound like something straight from science fiction about dangers of automated society.
  - 7y ago
kevingadd 7y ago
I don't feel like reverse-rating systems are actually a good idea without some checks and balances. You have no way to know how a driver decides whether or not to give a passenger a bad rating. We know from history (both pre-and-post-Uber) that sometimes drivers have an agenda in how they treat their passengers, either due to race, gender, or other factors, just like how sometimes a horrible passenger will mistreat a driver. With driver ratings, I can see my driver's rating and they can see it too. The rating system in Lyft (not sure about Uber) also has buttons you can use to explain why you gave a bad rating or indicate what you liked about a driver, which presumably provides anonymous feedback to the driver on how they could improve their scores. In comparison, a passenger with bad driver ratings gets no feedback or incentive to improve, and it's hard to know whether they could improve at all. If they have a bad rating from drivers they may never know and will just have a bad experience with the app, potentially forever. If you pick up a fare who already has a rating of 1.5/5, are you more likely to negatively interpret their behavior and give them a low score? Psychology is a factor here. An anecdote: On my third ever ride with Uber, the driver told me I had a very, very low passenger score. That means one of my first drivers gave me a low rating, probably a 1 or 2. Why? I have no idea. He didn't know either. Maybe the driver was having a bad day or thought I was rude, or the driver had trouble finding my pick-up location. In the end the only outcome was that it took me longer to get a driver to pick me up afterward because drivers saw my low score. (I use Lyft now instead and have no problems)

aprdm 7y ago

I think there’s a bit of an imbalance as customers can easily create new accounts

rock_hard 7y ago
Not really...most of these services require to register with a phone number creating a pretty high barrier to create additional accounts for the common folk
- xnyan 7y ago
  If you wanted to rent an Airbnb and you couldn’t because your phone number was associated with a negatively reviewed account, anyone who had the ability to get a phone number has the ability to get a second. It may be a minor inconvenience but not a particularly costly one. If I was a renter and wanted to disassociate from bad reviews, I imagine the easiest way to do it would be to transfer overship of the property to a holding company or similar. This is far harder to do and there’s far more cost.
- gruez 7y ago
  >most of these services require to register with a phone number creating a pretty high barrier to create additional accounts for the common folk getting a prepaid sim is a "high barrier"?
  - jaxn 7y ago
    Absolutely. Do you want to keep that SIM around for the next trip and the next?
  - Godel_unicode 7y ago
    Yes.

asiachick 7y ago

honestly IMO that's a horrible anti-feature. If I get bad service or ripped off I want to be able to tell anyone and everyone "STAY AWAY!" but instead I know that if I do that no one will rent to me. Why would they? They can just make sure to choose only people that never post a bad review.

Retric 7y ago
It could be a useful feature as long as the feedback is anonymous. Unfortunately, companies running ranking systems have their own best interests in the forefront which causes issues.
- leppr 7y ago
  Exactly, it's an incentive game. Airbnb has an incentive to maintain high rankings across the board, because customers compare ratings across platforms as if they're equivalent. If they see a majority of 3/5 on Airbnb, they're just going to go on Booking.com and book a 4.5/5 hotel instead. The only way to avoid this I can imagine is relying on cryptographic zero-knowledge proofs to defer ratings to an external network (ideally decentralized, but a neutral third-party ala TripAdvisor could work too). The platform gives the customer and provider a token when the transaction takes place, and they can use it to anonymously sign a review on the external ratings platform.

hombre_fatal 7y ago

Actually, what I've found on Airbnb is that everyone just rates everyone high to either avoid rating retaliation or to avoiding seeming like a dick / hard customer. I suspect it's the latter -- there really is no upside to being an honest critic. You'll rent a place that ends up being on the noisy highway and the worst rating you'll find is "great for early risers!" The rating system does not work. Airbnb doesn't care about rating inflation because it just makes everything look like 5-star experience. Uber is frustrating for other reasons. I've never made an Uber driver wait for me, I'll greet the driver, and I can't imagine how someone can be a better customer. I have a 4.1 rating and can't get VIP because of my rating. My girlfriend doesn't even believe in getting up to leave the house until the app tells her the Uber is there. She constantly calls uber for large loud drunk groups, redirects her rides, and yammers on her phone the whole ride. She has a 4.8+. Aside, my girlfriend also rates all Uber drivers 3/5 because that's an average rating. They get a 4/5 if they go above and beyond. I actually though 5-star systems had merits until I met her. Now I'm firmly against them.

jacques_chester 7y ago
I gave up giving anything other than 5 because if I do that, I get hounded for an explanation. I know they think this "proves" their dedication to excellence!!1!, but it mostly proves that the ratings are essentially bullshit.
- jdminhbg 7y ago
  I’m in the same boat. I’m not worried about ratings creep for providers; normalizing based on a user’s other ratings is a solved problem. But being forced to write 300 characters about why you gave a 4 instead of a 5 means I only rate less than 5 to legitimately warn the public.
failuser 7y ago
Do you have an explanation for this? It sound like something straight from science fiction about dangers of automated society.
- 7y ago

kevingadd 7y ago

I don't feel like reverse-rating systems are actually a good idea without some checks and balances. You have no way to know how a driver decides whether or not to give a passenger a bad rating. We know from history (both pre-and-post-Uber) that sometimes drivers have an agenda in how they treat their passengers, either due to race, gender, or other factors, just like how sometimes a horrible passenger will mistreat a driver. With driver ratings, I can see my driver's rating and they can see it too. The rating system in Lyft (not sure about Uber) also has buttons you can use to explain why you gave a bad rating or indicate what you liked about a driver, which presumably provides anonymous feedback to the driver on how they could improve their scores. In comparison, a passenger with bad driver ratings gets no feedback or incentive to improve, and it's hard to know whether they could improve at all. If they have a bad rating from drivers they may never know and will just have a bad experience with the app, potentially forever. If you pick up a fare who already has a rating of 1.5/5, are you more likely to negatively interpret their behavior and give them a low score? Psychology is a factor here. An anecdote: On my third ever ride with Uber, the driver told me I had a very, very low passenger score. That means one of my first drivers gave me a low rating, probably a 1 or 2. Why? I have no idea. He didn't know either. Maybe the driver was having a bad day or thought I was rude, or the driver had trouble finding my pick-up location. In the end the only outcome was that it took me longer to get a driver to pick me up afterward because drivers saw my low score. (I use Lyft now instead and have no problems)