5 ms·

Magnetic Levitation can exceed this speed limit. From the FTA: > a Japanese maglev had set a speed record at 581 km/h. The French managers considered it pointl

Magnetic Levitation can exceed this speed limit. From the FTA: > a Japanese maglev had set a speed record at 581 km/h. The French managers considered it pointless as well as prudent to force the experiment to exceed that speed, as they could have entered a kind of “international race” that they did not have much chance of winning. Time would prove them right: in 2015, another L0 series maglev reached 603 km/h on the Yamanashi test line. Chinese maglev seems to run at 431 km/h and brings in losses of more than 1 billion RMBs[1]. So these trains may not be economical. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_maglev_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_maglev_train

jbay808 7y ago
When the Shinkansen was built, it was criticized for being a fancy train that would never make its money back, in a world where the automobile looked like the future. The project managers resigned due to the project exceeding its budget and schedule. Fast forward to today, and the network is practically printing money for JR, while forming part of the backbone of Japan's infrastructure. It takes a long term vision to make this kind of thing work.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Japan's unique situation is probably the only thing that makes the Chuo Shinkansen pencil out. - Unlike most rail networks, the Japanese conventional rail network is narrow gauge while the Shinkansen is standard gauge, eliminating any chance of network effects from speeding up conventional trains on the high speed network as well. - The Chuo route is extremely mountainous, so most of the route is in tunnels, and in tunnels there isn't really an increase in land acquisition costs as you increase curve radii for higher speeds.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    The issue in Japan, though, is that they already have a high-speed network running on the same route, meaning that the extra gain from the maglev will be marginal. It's a bit of a lost opportunity that neither China nor (so far) India tried leapfrogging directly from regular rail to maglev. The costs involved are admittedly staggering, but both countries would have the economies of scale to make them tolerable eventually.
    - azurezyq 7y ago
      I think spending $$$ is not a problem, but spending $$$ on an unproven tech is a real gamble. They are not tens of miles experimental lines... It's 18,000mi.
    - ojii 7y ago
      > The issue in Japan, though, is that they already have a high-speed network running on the same route, meaning that the extra gain from the maglev will be marginal. Tokyo-Osaka in an hour vs the current 2.5h, that's far from marginal, especially if you do a round-trip. Having done that trip a couple of times recently for business, I can't wait for the Chuo Shinkansen to open.
      - nihonde 7y ago
        Tokyo, Nagoya, and Osaka—the big three cities in Japan—will be within an hour of each other. It’s a big win for business activity, I think. Especially if you're comparing to air travel, which has some gnarly trips to and from the airport in all three cities.
        jandrese 7y ago
        That has a major danger of being another Concorde situation, where the second best option is still acceptably fast and much much cheaper. At the end of the day the market for people who are willing to spend an extra $2000 or $4000 to shave an hour and a half off of their travel time isn't very large.
        bobthepanda 7y ago
        Concorde had the issue of extremely high operating costs and low capacity. I don't think maglev has anywhere near the same problem, at least in terms of operating cost.
        jandrese 7y ago
        Nobody has built a maglev system that doesn't have very high operating costs yet. To be fair all of the extant systems are short haul or prototypes but there's still the question of if they will be able to reduce the costs with scale or if they're fundamental to the technology.
hcknwscommenter 7y ago
The actual cost of running the line versus ticket revenue generated is an extremely poor way of analyzing the situation. High speed, frequent, and reliable transportation can be a massive multiplier of economic activity.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
The Chinese maglev is just impractical: it doesn’t go into the city and it’s quicker and about as cheap to just take a cab to the airport. The Japanese maglev is going to be a full blown commuter alternative to the massively successful tokaido Shinkansen.
- ghomrassen 7y ago
  This. They originally wanted to make the maglev line all the way to the other airport (Hongqiao) with a stop in downtown (People's Square). If they just went to People's Square, the amount of people using it would be MUCH greater.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    There were actually complaints about the the dangers have maglev magnetic radiation or something like that. I don’t think they were valid, but even China has to cave into public pressure sometimes. Also, it was just too expensive to build more, so I think they decided to make it a dead end. I took it once (back in 2006) just to experience it. It is fast, just not when compared to the whole trip being made by a taxi.
- melling 7y ago
  China is also build new low-speed maglevs: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-maglev-trains/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-maglev-t... There are many places where 100 mph is sufficiently fast.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    The Changsha HSR-airport maglev is actually useful, but is very much a local transit option. It still doesn’t go into the city, but I’ve had to make that connection before. The Shanghai maglev doesn’t connect to anything more than a subway station.

jbay808 7y ago

When the Shinkansen was built, it was criticized for being a fancy train that would never make its money back, in a world where the automobile looked like the future. The project managers resigned due to the project exceeding its budget and schedule. Fast forward to today, and the network is practically printing money for JR, while forming part of the backbone of Japan's infrastructure. It takes a long term vision to make this kind of thing work.

bobthepanda 7y ago
Japan's unique situation is probably the only thing that makes the Chuo Shinkansen pencil out. - Unlike most rail networks, the Japanese conventional rail network is narrow gauge while the Shinkansen is standard gauge, eliminating any chance of network effects from speeding up conventional trains on the high speed network as well. - The Chuo route is extremely mountainous, so most of the route is in tunnels, and in tunnels there isn't really an increase in land acquisition costs as you increase curve radii for higher speeds.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  The issue in Japan, though, is that they already have a high-speed network running on the same route, meaning that the extra gain from the maglev will be marginal. It's a bit of a lost opportunity that neither China nor (so far) India tried leapfrogging directly from regular rail to maglev. The costs involved are admittedly staggering, but both countries would have the economies of scale to make them tolerable eventually.
  - azurezyq 7y ago
    I think spending $$$ is not a problem, but spending $$$ on an unproven tech is a real gamble. They are not tens of miles experimental lines... It's 18,000mi.
  - ojii 7y ago
    > The issue in Japan, though, is that they already have a high-speed network running on the same route, meaning that the extra gain from the maglev will be marginal. Tokyo-Osaka in an hour vs the current 2.5h, that's far from marginal, especially if you do a round-trip. Having done that trip a couple of times recently for business, I can't wait for the Chuo Shinkansen to open.
    - nihonde 7y ago
      Tokyo, Nagoya, and Osaka—the big three cities in Japan—will be within an hour of each other. It’s a big win for business activity, I think. Especially if you're comparing to air travel, which has some gnarly trips to and from the airport in all three cities.
      - jandrese 7y ago
        That has a major danger of being another Concorde situation, where the second best option is still acceptably fast and much much cheaper. At the end of the day the market for people who are willing to spend an extra $2000 or $4000 to shave an hour and a half off of their travel time isn't very large.
        bobthepanda 7y ago
        Concorde had the issue of extremely high operating costs and low capacity. I don't think maglev has anywhere near the same problem, at least in terms of operating cost.
        jandrese 7y ago
        Nobody has built a maglev system that doesn't have very high operating costs yet. To be fair all of the extant systems are short haul or prototypes but there's still the question of if they will be able to reduce the costs with scale or if they're fundamental to the technology.

hcknwscommenter 7y ago

The actual cost of running the line versus ticket revenue generated is an extremely poor way of analyzing the situation. High speed, frequent, and reliable transportation can be a massive multiplier of economic activity.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

The Chinese maglev is just impractical: it doesn’t go into the city and it’s quicker and about as cheap to just take a cab to the airport. The Japanese maglev is going to be a full blown commuter alternative to the massively successful tokaido Shinkansen.

ghomrassen 7y ago
This. They originally wanted to make the maglev line all the way to the other airport (Hongqiao) with a stop in downtown (People's Square). If they just went to People's Square, the amount of people using it would be MUCH greater.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  There were actually complaints about the the dangers have maglev magnetic radiation or something like that. I don’t think they were valid, but even China has to cave into public pressure sometimes. Also, it was just too expensive to build more, so I think they decided to make it a dead end. I took it once (back in 2006) just to experience it. It is fast, just not when compared to the whole trip being made by a taxi.
melling 7y ago
China is also build new low-speed maglevs: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-maglev-trains/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-driverless-maglev-t... There are many places where 100 mph is sufficiently fast.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  The Changsha HSR-airport maglev is actually useful, but is very much a local transit option. It still doesn’t go into the city, but I’ve had to make that connection before. The Shanghai maglev doesn’t connect to anything more than a subway station.