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Vancouverite here. When major tech companies started setting up satellite offices here, I assumed it'd be a temporary situation, and that we'd be at the mercy o

Vancouverite here. When major tech companies started setting up satellite offices here, I assumed it'd be a temporary situation, and that we'd be at the mercy of any change in the U.S. immigration process. The longer there's an immigration bottleneck though, the more entrenched these companies become here. There are more senior roles opening up here all the time, and salaries are increasing in this competitive market. From my experience on the media / marketing side of things, a lot of people moving here that didn't consider the U.S. as an option. For some roles, our entire crop of interviewees have moved to Canada from other countries. Yes, the U.S. immigration situation is helping the Canadian tech scene, but cities like Vancouver and Toronto are more than a mere crashpad for people waiting to move to SV. There's real momentum here as well.

petre 7y ago
Also better healthcare. My parents have friends that moved from the US to Canada due to this and the very competitive job market in the US with virtually no employee rights. They weren't working in tech but banking/services.
- amatecha 7y ago
  In some ways, perhaps. The fact we frequently have to pay for prescribed medication is mind-blowingly ridiculous. Even with medical insurance (through your employer or paying for the plan yourself), you're usually forced to use generic medications if you want coverage - even when your doctor signs a Special Authority[0] form to have your medication covered. And yes, there can be pretty substantial differences between name brand and generic. [0] https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/practitioner-professional-resources/pharmacare/prescribers/special-authority https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/practitioner-profe...
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    > substantial differences between name brand and generic I was under the impression generics are molecular identical? How do they differ when the name brand version says on the pack, for example, temazepam 10mg, and the generic version says the same thing?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - mehrdadn 7y ago
      Layman here, but I recall reading their inactive ingredients can make a difference. (Inactive != unimportant)
      - refurb 7y ago
        Not sure why you’re being downvoted, but this true. For most people the inactive ingredients have no impact, but for some people they do.
    - throw63835 7y ago
      Lolwut? Two products produced by two different companies, expected to be of the same caliber? Nonsense. Utter nonsense. Look into the "Warning Letters" database for generics producers vs. branded. It's ridiculous the amount of things generics producers get away with (contaminated product, improper facility maintenance, improper purity and potency oversight, poor quality control). They're not the same thing. No matter how many laymen -- or worse actual medical professionals who think they know pharma just because they sell pills -- parrot the "fillers causing side-effects" bullshit. The only thing generics providers need to do is establish a very loose bioequivalency through self-tested experiments (the FDA doesn't conduct the experiments or oversees them, only reviews the results and methodology). Once accepted, shady decisions are easy to cover up, since the FDA only does visits infrequently. It's like buying on Amazon. You could get the original brand's product or some knock-off. Except in this case, the knock-off is state-supported.
      - Scoundreller 7y ago
        > The only thing generics providers need to do is establish a very loose bioequivalency through self-tested experiments (the FDA doesn't conduct the experiments or oversees them, only reviews the results and methodology) Though buying brand may not protect you from this. Brand name companies change up plants, processes, API suppliers, etc. without notifying end-users. They just do the same kind of testing a generic supplier may. They have the same pressures to reduce cost as much as a generic manufacturer does.
- briandear 7y ago
  Working for a Silicon Valley tech company, you typically have extremely good health insurance and a vastly higher salary than anything in Canada. Salaries north of the border are a pittance compared to what you could earn in even a mid-tiered US city. I remember about 3 years ago being offered a “senior” “lead” rails developer position in Toronto paying $C30 per hour. And a non-lead was paying $C25 per hour. Ridiculous. And Toronto isn’t a cheap city. I made triple that working remotely for a Kansas City company. Canada is a nice place, live there if you want, but “competitive compensation” is definitely not a reason.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    Eventually most people work out there is value in not being stabbed for the $5 in your wallet and having to walk around in shit covered streets.
    - toephu2 7y ago
      Yes, because every tech worker in SF gets stabbed for $5 in their wallet and everyday they walk through poo on their way to work. On a more serious note, you should learn about how the media works. One person gets stabbed in SF for $5 and it makes the news, and then people like you believe that every one of the 884k people living in SF get stabbed. You probably also believe that all Teslas easily catch on fire? Cause you saw it on the news? Please learn about statistics and sensationalist media.
    - refurb 7y ago
      Have you been to East Hastings in Vancouver? It rivals anything I’ve seen in SF.
  - aprdm 7y ago
    Using a single experience to invalidate a whole country as a place to have a competitive compensation is a bit unfair. Am sure you can find people paying even less than that for lead web developers in the USA. If you look at levels.fyi Amazon seems to be paying around 180k TC for SD2 in Vancouver. I would rather live in Vancouver with 180K than in the US with 250k. (Am talking local currencies as when I am living in a country I spend the money in local currency.)
amatecha 7y ago
Yup, most ppl I know who've moved here for a tech job have no desire to move to the US for a similar role, even if it pays more.
- LadyCailin 7y ago
  I went the opposite way. Native US, but moved to Europe, cause the living conditions are better. Pay is worse, and cost of living is higher, but my standard of living has gone way up. Funniest thing is, I still work for an American company anyways.
tathougies 7y ago
I can't imagine the political shit show if the United States attempted to set up a points-based migration system like Canada.
gumby 7y ago
This is how the film industry moved to California from New York. Back then it was far enough away not to worry about Edison patent lawsuits. By the time the rail improved and the patents expired, Hollywood (they tried Fremond and Tanforan first) was entrenched. There's really nothing like working in the Valley but not everyone likes it and if there's a solid alternative I suspect that Vancouver and Toronto will continue to prosper no matter what the US policies end up being.
- xsmasher 7y ago
  I just learned about the Niles Film Museum a few weeks ago; I think it was on the bay area podcast? http://nilesfilmmuseum.org http://nilesfilmmuseum.org Edit: "Bay Curious" podcast https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  > This is how the film industry moved to California from New York. I would think the great weather for filming and access to many kinds of terrain would is benefit New York can’t offer.
  - omarhaneef 7y ago
    I wonder if the subject matter changes to match the weather. It goes from Film Noir, dark rainy detective scenes to Westerns with expansive outdoor scenes.
    - tssva 7y ago
      Film Noir's heyday was the 1940s and 50s. Almost all film production had moved to Hollywood by the early 1930s with most having moved well before then. Some of the classics of American Film Noir are actually set in LA. Even before the move to Hollywood the center of the US film industry wasn't New York, but just across the river in Fort Lee, NJ.
  - gumby 7y ago
    I believe weather is why the industry moved south to the then minor city of Los Angeles, but many early films were filmed on stage sets anyway. Plus NYC had financing, actors, culture, etc unlike the boondocks of California There’s a lot of historical analysis of this.
jammygit 7y ago
The really important thing would be if more Canadian founders were able to create massive companies successfully. The jobs are certainly welcome but I want to hear about more successful companies owned by Canadians
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  Of all places there are a few rather successful companies coming out of Saskatoon.
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    I wish SaskTel was nationwide.
- Maximus9000 7y ago
  There have been a few big Canadian success stories - Shopify being the latest.
  - oiasdjfoiasd 7y ago
    WealthSimple also.
- agilebyte 7y ago
  Owned by Canadians and registered in Canada are two different things. There's a lot more investment in US hence why a lot of the companies are registered there and you see them as "American".
jbarham 7y ago
I've also lived in Toronto and Vancouver. Did the obligatory move to work as a software dev in California and now live in Australia. The fact is that tech salaries in Canada are still much lower than the US while the cost of living, especially housing, is still very high, for Vancouver and Toronto in particular. Not to mention the lousy winters. Spend any time browsing /r/vancouver or /r/toronto and you'll quickly realize that the cost of living is a huge problem. The Vancouver housing market in particular has been absurdly inflated by out of control money laundering. Local salaries and house prices are totally out of whack. Follow https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/ https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/ to see what money laundering has done to the Vancouver housing market. https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1221315000897163264 https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1221315000897163264 is a particularly amusing recent thread showing where a would-be landlord writes: "This home is in rough shape and needs painting, and TLC. Looking for long term tenant willing to put labour in while landlord covers all material costs." All this for only $5650/month!
- endgame 7y ago
  You left Canada because the housing market was a rort, and chose to come to AUSTRALIA!?
  - linkregister 7y ago
    The median salary in Vancouver is substantially lower than Sydney, and its property values are similar. Vancouver salaries are also lower than almost all of Canada's metros, while having the highest property costs. Vancouver also has the best weather. The Canadian metro with the best opportunity and lowest comparative costs is Montreal.
    - kazinator 7y ago
      > The median salary in Vancouver is substantially lower than Sydney, and its property values are similar. Not that you actually own that property value in Vancouver. If you run away and go work somewhere else for a year, and don't rent it, you owe Vancouver a hefty empty home tax.
zerr 7y ago
I view Canada as mix of good things from US (spacious streets, houses, landscape, partly English-speaking) and Europe (universal healthcare, education). If only it had a better climate... :)
- wenc 7y ago
  > If only it had a better climate... :) Well, the climate in the populated parts of Canada parallels the northern United States, i.e. Chicago (9.5m in metro area) and Toronto (6.4m in metro area) have similar climate, as well as Vancouver and Seattle. There are huge populations in these areas who are used to northern climate and have no trouble with it. I live in Chicago and really love the four seasons, prefer the cold to the heat and would never move to anywhere south of say North Carolina. Climate preferences can vary quite a bit, I would say.
brailsafe 7y ago
Vancouverite also here. I am happy to see regular salary listings at much higher than they used to be, and if this is the reason, that's cool with me! I believe Microsoft and Amazon are opening huge secondary locations here soon.
- pitterpatter 7y ago
  Microsoft has long since had offices in Vancouver. It's only a few hours drive from headquarters down in Redmond. And another choice for employees that lose the H1B lottery.
  - brailsafe 7y ago
    They are opening new offices in Van alongside their existing ones.
- ripley12 7y ago
  This is a strange comment to read as a Vancouverite. Amazon’s has thousands of employees for years now, they had 600 jobs open last I checked. Microsoft’s main downtown office has one of the most prominent locations in the city, plus a huge sign. Those huge secondary locations are already here.
  - brailsafe 7y ago
    I meant secondary to the offices that you mentioned. So two main Vancouver offices and two Amazon Vancouver offices total.
    - ripley12 7y ago
      Ah. Amazon has had multiple offices downtown for a long time, and Microsoft has 2 large ones (the City Centre one and the Yaletown one near BC Place). But yes, they are still expanding.
      - brailsafe 7y ago
sampo 7y ago
How's the housing policy in Vancouver and Toronto? If new tech companies and new tech workers keep coming, are the cities willing to allow for construction of lots of new homes? Or are there signs that the housing policies would turn as anti-growth and hostile to newcomers as happened in the Bay Area?
- agilebyte 7y ago
  The demand outpaces supply currently in Toronto (where I live), Vancouver, and the prices are high. Everyone talks about affordability and so far it's been tackled by extending rent control and adding a foreign buyer tax.
- Tiktaalik 7y ago
  Vancouver and Toronto both build quite a bit. Some will argue not enough, and there is the usual NIMBYism, but it's not comparable to the disfunction of SF.
- teunispeters 7y ago
  It's cheaper and easier to build in SF than Vancouver BC and region now. Hoping that to change - I moved to Saskatchewan to get away from that. (Alberta wasn't far enough - real estate there is effected too by the ease of international tax evaders and money launderers to buy property to "hold" their assets).
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > How's the housing policy in Vancouver and Toronto? Toronto has more construction towers (120) than any other city in North America (49 in SFO and LAX): * https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/08/toronto-tops-crane-count-list https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/0... It's still not keeping up with demand.
commandlinefan 7y ago
> the U.S. immigration situation is helping the Canadian tech scene Well, India and China have even fewer immigration restrictions on Indian and Chinese workers than Canada does... why would Vancouver take San Francisco’s place rather than Mumbai or Shanghai?
- unishark 7y ago
  Shanghai is practically topped-out already, there's a huge amount of VC funding being spent and it's quite hard to emigrate there. Though I don't think it's about US policy so much as just good success at reproducing the Hong Kong business environment.
Tiktaalik 7y ago
I'd echo this as a Vancouverite. People coming here from elsewhere are here for Vancouver itself. It's not a stopping point on the way south. In fact in the last few years I've even been seeing young people coming up from the USA to live here for lifestyle reasons. IMO the dominant thing propelling tech in Vancouver forward isn't the immigration law situation, but rather the low Canadian dollar makes our companies cheap to work with for SF giants.

petre 7y ago

Also better healthcare. My parents have friends that moved from the US to Canada due to this and the very competitive job market in the US with virtually no employee rights. They weren't working in tech but banking/services.

amatecha 7y ago
In some ways, perhaps. The fact we frequently have to pay for prescribed medication is mind-blowingly ridiculous. Even with medical insurance (through your employer or paying for the plan yourself), you're usually forced to use generic medications if you want coverage - even when your doctor signs a Special Authority[0] form to have your medication covered. And yes, there can be pretty substantial differences between name brand and generic. [0] https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/practitioner-professional-resources/pharmacare/prescribers/special-authority https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/practitioner-profe...
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  > substantial differences between name brand and generic I was under the impression generics are molecular identical? How do they differ when the name brand version says on the pack, for example, temazepam 10mg, and the generic version says the same thing?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - mehrdadn 7y ago
    Layman here, but I recall reading their inactive ingredients can make a difference. (Inactive != unimportant)
    - refurb 7y ago
      Not sure why you’re being downvoted, but this true. For most people the inactive ingredients have no impact, but for some people they do.
  - throw63835 7y ago
    Lolwut? Two products produced by two different companies, expected to be of the same caliber? Nonsense. Utter nonsense. Look into the "Warning Letters" database for generics producers vs. branded. It's ridiculous the amount of things generics producers get away with (contaminated product, improper facility maintenance, improper purity and potency oversight, poor quality control). They're not the same thing. No matter how many laymen -- or worse actual medical professionals who think they know pharma just because they sell pills -- parrot the "fillers causing side-effects" bullshit. The only thing generics providers need to do is establish a very loose bioequivalency through self-tested experiments (the FDA doesn't conduct the experiments or oversees them, only reviews the results and methodology). Once accepted, shady decisions are easy to cover up, since the FDA only does visits infrequently. It's like buying on Amazon. You could get the original brand's product or some knock-off. Except in this case, the knock-off is state-supported.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      > The only thing generics providers need to do is establish a very loose bioequivalency through self-tested experiments (the FDA doesn't conduct the experiments or oversees them, only reviews the results and methodology) Though buying brand may not protect you from this. Brand name companies change up plants, processes, API suppliers, etc. without notifying end-users. They just do the same kind of testing a generic supplier may. They have the same pressures to reduce cost as much as a generic manufacturer does.
briandear 7y ago
Working for a Silicon Valley tech company, you typically have extremely good health insurance and a vastly higher salary than anything in Canada. Salaries north of the border are a pittance compared to what you could earn in even a mid-tiered US city. I remember about 3 years ago being offered a “senior” “lead” rails developer position in Toronto paying $C30 per hour. And a non-lead was paying $C25 per hour. Ridiculous. And Toronto isn’t a cheap city. I made triple that working remotely for a Kansas City company. Canada is a nice place, live there if you want, but “competitive compensation” is definitely not a reason.
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  Eventually most people work out there is value in not being stabbed for the $5 in your wallet and having to walk around in shit covered streets.
  - toephu2 7y ago
    Yes, because every tech worker in SF gets stabbed for $5 in their wallet and everyday they walk through poo on their way to work. On a more serious note, you should learn about how the media works. One person gets stabbed in SF for $5 and it makes the news, and then people like you believe that every one of the 884k people living in SF get stabbed. You probably also believe that all Teslas easily catch on fire? Cause you saw it on the news? Please learn about statistics and sensationalist media.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Have you been to East Hastings in Vancouver? It rivals anything I’ve seen in SF.
- aprdm 7y ago
  Using a single experience to invalidate a whole country as a place to have a competitive compensation is a bit unfair. Am sure you can find people paying even less than that for lead web developers in the USA. If you look at levels.fyi Amazon seems to be paying around 180k TC for SD2 in Vancouver. I would rather live in Vancouver with 180K than in the US with 250k. (Am talking local currencies as when I am living in a country I spend the money in local currency.)

amatecha 7y ago

Yup, most ppl I know who've moved here for a tech job have no desire to move to the US for a similar role, even if it pays more.

LadyCailin 7y ago
I went the opposite way. Native US, but moved to Europe, cause the living conditions are better. Pay is worse, and cost of living is higher, but my standard of living has gone way up. Funniest thing is, I still work for an American company anyways.

tathougies 7y ago

I can't imagine the political shit show if the United States attempted to set up a points-based migration system like Canada.

gumby 7y ago

This is how the film industry moved to California from New York. Back then it was far enough away not to worry about Edison patent lawsuits. By the time the rail improved and the patents expired, Hollywood (they tried Fremond and Tanforan first) was entrenched. There's really nothing like working in the Valley but not everyone likes it and if there's a solid alternative I suspect that Vancouver and Toronto will continue to prosper no matter what the US policies end up being.

xsmasher 7y ago
I just learned about the Niles Film Museum a few weeks ago; I think it was on the bay area podcast? http://nilesfilmmuseum.org http://nilesfilmmuseum.org Edit: "Bay Curious" podcast https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious
lotsofpulp 7y ago
> This is how the film industry moved to California from New York. I would think the great weather for filming and access to many kinds of terrain would is benefit New York can’t offer.
- omarhaneef 7y ago
  I wonder if the subject matter changes to match the weather. It goes from Film Noir, dark rainy detective scenes to Westerns with expansive outdoor scenes.
  - tssva 7y ago
    Film Noir's heyday was the 1940s and 50s. Almost all film production had moved to Hollywood by the early 1930s with most having moved well before then. Some of the classics of American Film Noir are actually set in LA. Even before the move to Hollywood the center of the US film industry wasn't New York, but just across the river in Fort Lee, NJ.
- gumby 7y ago
  I believe weather is why the industry moved south to the then minor city of Los Angeles, but many early films were filmed on stage sets anyway. Plus NYC had financing, actors, culture, etc unlike the boondocks of California There’s a lot of historical analysis of this.

jammygit 7y ago

The really important thing would be if more Canadian founders were able to create massive companies successfully. The jobs are certainly welcome but I want to hear about more successful companies owned by Canadians

52-6F-62 7y ago
Of all places there are a few rather successful companies coming out of Saskatoon.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  I wish SaskTel was nationwide.
Maximus9000 7y ago
There have been a few big Canadian success stories - Shopify being the latest.
- oiasdjfoiasd 7y ago
  WealthSimple also.
agilebyte 7y ago
Owned by Canadians and registered in Canada are two different things. There's a lot more investment in US hence why a lot of the companies are registered there and you see them as "American".

jbarham 7y ago

I've also lived in Toronto and Vancouver. Did the obligatory move to work as a software dev in California and now live in Australia. The fact is that tech salaries in Canada are still much lower than the US while the cost of living, especially housing, is still very high, for Vancouver and Toronto in particular. Not to mention the lousy winters. Spend any time browsing /r/vancouver or /r/toronto and you'll quickly realize that the cost of living is a huge problem. The Vancouver housing market in particular has been absurdly inflated by out of control money laundering. Local salaries and house prices are totally out of whack. Follow https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/ https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/ to see what money laundering has done to the Vancouver housing market. https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1221315000897163264 https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1221315000897163264 is a particularly amusing recent thread showing where a would-be landlord writes: "This home is in rough shape and needs painting, and TLC. Looking for long term tenant willing to put labour in while landlord covers all material costs." All this for only $5650/month!

endgame 7y ago
You left Canada because the housing market was a rort, and chose to come to AUSTRALIA!?
- linkregister 7y ago
  The median salary in Vancouver is substantially lower than Sydney, and its property values are similar. Vancouver salaries are also lower than almost all of Canada's metros, while having the highest property costs. Vancouver also has the best weather. The Canadian metro with the best opportunity and lowest comparative costs is Montreal.
  - kazinator 7y ago
    > The median salary in Vancouver is substantially lower than Sydney, and its property values are similar. Not that you actually own that property value in Vancouver. If you run away and go work somewhere else for a year, and don't rent it, you owe Vancouver a hefty empty home tax.

zerr 7y ago

I view Canada as mix of good things from US (spacious streets, houses, landscape, partly English-speaking) and Europe (universal healthcare, education). If only it had a better climate... :)

wenc 7y ago
> If only it had a better climate... :) Well, the climate in the populated parts of Canada parallels the northern United States, i.e. Chicago (9.5m in metro area) and Toronto (6.4m in metro area) have similar climate, as well as Vancouver and Seattle. There are huge populations in these areas who are used to northern climate and have no trouble with it. I live in Chicago and really love the four seasons, prefer the cold to the heat and would never move to anywhere south of say North Carolina. Climate preferences can vary quite a bit, I would say.

brailsafe 7y ago

Vancouverite also here. I am happy to see regular salary listings at much higher than they used to be, and if this is the reason, that's cool with me! I believe Microsoft and Amazon are opening huge secondary locations here soon.

pitterpatter 7y ago
Microsoft has long since had offices in Vancouver. It's only a few hours drive from headquarters down in Redmond. And another choice for employees that lose the H1B lottery.
- brailsafe 7y ago
  They are opening new offices in Van alongside their existing ones.
ripley12 7y ago
This is a strange comment to read as a Vancouverite. Amazon’s has thousands of employees for years now, they had 600 jobs open last I checked. Microsoft’s main downtown office has one of the most prominent locations in the city, plus a huge sign. Those huge secondary locations are already here.
- brailsafe 7y ago
  I meant secondary to the offices that you mentioned. So two main Vancouver offices and two Amazon Vancouver offices total.
  - ripley12 7y ago
    Ah. Amazon has had multiple offices downtown for a long time, and Microsoft has 2 large ones (the City Centre one and the Yaletown one near BC Place). But yes, they are still expanding.
    - brailsafe 7y ago

sampo 7y ago

How's the housing policy in Vancouver and Toronto? If new tech companies and new tech workers keep coming, are the cities willing to allow for construction of lots of new homes? Or are there signs that the housing policies would turn as anti-growth and hostile to newcomers as happened in the Bay Area?

agilebyte 7y ago
The demand outpaces supply currently in Toronto (where I live), Vancouver, and the prices are high. Everyone talks about affordability and so far it's been tackled by extending rent control and adding a foreign buyer tax.
Tiktaalik 7y ago
Vancouver and Toronto both build quite a bit. Some will argue not enough, and there is the usual NIMBYism, but it's not comparable to the disfunction of SF.
teunispeters 7y ago
It's cheaper and easier to build in SF than Vancouver BC and region now. Hoping that to change - I moved to Saskatchewan to get away from that. (Alberta wasn't far enough - real estate there is effected too by the ease of international tax evaders and money launderers to buy property to "hold" their assets).
throw0101a 7y ago
> How's the housing policy in Vancouver and Toronto? Toronto has more construction towers (120) than any other city in North America (49 in SFO and LAX): * https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/08/toronto-tops-crane-count-list https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/0... It's still not keeping up with demand.

commandlinefan 7y ago

> the U.S. immigration situation is helping the Canadian tech scene Well, India and China have even fewer immigration restrictions on Indian and Chinese workers than Canada does... why would Vancouver take San Francisco’s place rather than Mumbai or Shanghai?

unishark 7y ago
Shanghai is practically topped-out already, there's a huge amount of VC funding being spent and it's quite hard to emigrate there. Though I don't think it's about US policy so much as just good success at reproducing the Hong Kong business environment.

Tiktaalik 7y ago

I'd echo this as a Vancouverite. People coming here from elsewhere are here for Vancouver itself. It's not a stopping point on the way south. In fact in the last few years I've even been seeing young people coming up from the USA to live here for lifestyle reasons. IMO the dominant thing propelling tech in Vancouver forward isn't the immigration law situation, but rather the low Canadian dollar makes our companies cheap to work with for SF giants.