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USB 4.0 [pdf]
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y agoTldr • Two-lane operation using existing USB Type-C® cables and up to 40Gbps operation over 40Gbps certified cables • Multiple data and display protocols that efficiently share the maximum aggregate bandwidth • Backward compatibility with USB 3.2, USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt
- dieselerator 7y agoThank you. I appreciate the summary.
- L0ove1 7y agoTechnology that should begin to be used right now https://www.123movies.supply https://www.123movies.supply
- joecool1029 7y agoThis is from Sep 2019, HN discussed it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20870326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20870326
- chx 7y agoThis needs a 2019 in the title. This is a little more than USB 3.2 2x2 + TB3 but there's one crucial difference: the new, still optional USB 4 Gen 3 (what TB3 was) now carries USB packets as well. Previously TB3 only carried PCI Express and DisplayPort packets and the Intel hubs had USB root hubs in them. This solution worked out so well some PCIe enclosures opted to use two TB3 controllers just to get a problem free USB experience... Also, PCIe was nerfed by Intel in TB3 for unknown reasons to 22Gbps, there's hope it'll be 32Gbps this time for real. You can still run a 3440 x 1440 @ 60 Hz monitor on the remaining bandwidth (or to spew marketing BS, 4k @ 30 Hz).
- crooked-v 7y ago> USB 4 Gen 3 Are they going to do that thing again where they rebrand the existing standards from USB 3 Gen X to USB 4 Gen X?
- justAnotherNET 7y agoThis is design by committee. What’s the worst possible decision you could imagine?
- ksec 7y agoYes they are, at least for now.
- picclex 7y ago>Also, PCIe was nerfed by Intel in TB3 for unknown reasons to 22Gbps, there's hope it'll be 32Gbps this time for real. You can still run a 3440 x 1440 @ 60 Hz monitor on the remaining bandwidth (or to spew marketing BS, 4k @ 30 Hz). I'd just like to clarify, and add some info: - you're not running the video over pcie - ...unless you use an egpu (which has been a mostly problem free experience for me but wow YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY) - the "problem" with pcie-via-tb3 is not bandwidth, but latency. You can run "normal" GPUs on 4x with minimal penalty for most games. - problem free USB experience... if you're using titan ridge with modern drivers - some laptop and enclosure manufacturers ship and include in their built-in updating software old drivers. Get the latest from intel and hope for the best. Alpine ridge is still buggy, and also quite limited in many ways. Fortunately, most laptops sold in 2019 shipped titan ridge. The only way to tell if you have alpine ridge is to count how many tb3 capable usbc ports you have, if the laptop you bought maxed out the usbc ports - which it might not have on an ultraportable. insane. - you can only get the highest speeds (>20Gbps) over a 6inch cable or a USB Type-C Active Cable. Both sides of the cable include a chip which performs clock, sync, and some power negotiation of the link
- crooked-v 7y ago> YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY My biggest issues with my eGPU have been with Windows' weird limitations on addressing space for devices, so if you have 3+ graphics cards (builtin primary, builtin secondary, eGPU card) you end up having to endlessly screw around with disabling and reenabling devices and device buses to change the order they're initialized in, messing with bootloaders to change which PCIe lanes get loaded at startup, etc etc. It's a nightmare. By contrast, all my experiences on Mac have been either "it just works" or "after one reboot it just works". Still not ideal, but not anything close to the 4+ hours it took me to get it working on Windows for the first time (and after which it immediately stopped working again the first time I disconnected the Thunderbolt cable).
- vearwhershuh 7y agoDoes anyone knowledgeable know if a magnetic coupling is coming for USB? I have used volta cables for a while (I preferred the 1.0 to the 2.0) and I'm surprised that this design idea isn't more widely popular, given how user friendly it is.
- CivBase 7y agoThis a hundred times over. Type C is better than micro, but a magnetic port would make much more sense for most mobile consumer devices like laptops and smartphones.
- simlevesque 7y agoType C magnetic cable exist, I have two of them.
- paranoidrobot 7y agoMy understanding is that none of the Type-C magnetic cables support TB3 or high power options. So they can't be used for connecting a laptop to a docking station, for instance.
- Dylan16807 7y agoAmazon has a whole bunch of those cables/adapters that claim to support 100W/5A charging. Something about being "20 pin" instead of "24 pin" makes even the ones that support high speed links not support thunderbolt, but I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly which pins aren't connected. (It might be the two that are never connected, plus the sideband pins? But that would need awkward wiring, so maybe it's sideband and CC? But that would break more things, I think. So maybe some of it is power pins? But there's 8 of those by default, so why would dropping 4 pins cause it to lose thunderbolt support?)
- Holkin 7y agoUSB-IF has no plans to include magnetic retention in the spec for USB. The onus is on manufacturers to implement this on their devices and cables if they wish for this to become a recurring feature on the market. There might be a more detailed reason as to why and if you want, I can seek an official response from the USB-IF team and their association management company, VTM Group.
- Causality1 7y agoGod I miss the days when I could tell what a port was capable of by looking at it.
- Dylan16807 7y agoWhat ports are you thinking of? PS/2, parallel, serial, VGA, HDMI, DisplayPort, Ethernet, USB since 2001... they can all vary in capability. DVI might not? But you have to look really closely to make sure you have the right kind of DVI.
- mmastrac 7y agoDVI is a pain! Is it analog only? Digital only? Dual link capable? So glad that HDMI superceded that one.
- willis936 7y agoHmm? All DVI is digital (except for the analog vsync line).
- azernik 7y agoDVI-A is an analog-only signal that runs over a DVI connector. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface#/media/File:DVI_Connector_Types.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface#/medi...
- zvrba 7y agoYeah, about HDMI... why did DisplayPort get invented?
- akvadrako 7y agohigher performance, simpler, can be used internally and royalty free
- ggm 7y ago
- PaulHoule 7y agoThis particular document doesn't communicate value to the consumer. I have much love for USB 1, 2, 3 and if were not for those USB-C connectors that don't seem well connected to the circuit board I'd be satisfied.
- toastal 7y agoI want to start seeing these USB4 ports in laptops though to free us up from Intel+Thunderbolt.
- teilo 7y agoHuh? Intel invented Thunderbolt. USB4 is Thunderbolt 3.
- cesarb 7y ago> USB4 is Thunderbolt 3 No, USB4 is a successor of Thunderbolt 3 (but similar enough that it can be backwards compatible with Thunderbolt 3). For instance, Thunderbolt 3 tunnels only PCIe and DisplayPort, while USB4 also tunnels USB 3.x.
- DiabloD3 7y agoI agree with this analysis. USB4 is more of a Thunderbolt 4. Not only can it tunnel USB natively, it seems likely to be supporting a newer higher speed higher than TB3's 40gbps (but if it don't, I'm still happy with 40).
- blackrock 7y agoI would actually like a Type C sized USB port that is magnetic. Kind of like the magnetic Apple charger for the older MacBook. Why magnetic? So that I can quickly attach and detach a flash drive to it, without actually plugging it in. And then have an external mechanical locking pin or mechanism, to hold the device or cable in place, if you need to better secure it. Why would this be superior? * You eliminate the actual wear and tear of the USB metal housing. * The external locking mechanism can be easily repaired or replaced when it wears out or breaks. * It would probably help make your computer more waterproof.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoThere's some magnetic USB-c adapters you can get on Amazon. They kinda look like pogo pins
- beagle3 7y agoI was under the impression these only work for usb c power distribution; do they also work for data, display, etc?
- latentpot 7y agoYes. Some have only 2 leads, but the newer ones have all of them.
- tn890 7y agoAny recommendations for a good one? I know the Type C market is rife with poor quality stuff.
- notpeter 7y agoKnaive KD3 [1] has worked well with my MacbookPro. It supports 100watts of USB-PD and USB 3.1 (10gbit). I've had no problems doing 87watts, 1080p @ 60hz HDMI and ethernet/USB over a single cable. USB 3.1 only has bandwidth for 4K @ 60hz w/o USB; so with non-thunderbolt cables (like these magnetic adaptors) it's either Power+4K@60Hz or Power+USB+4K@30Hz. [1]: https://amzn.to/38ZXPVa https://amzn.to/38ZXPVa
- knolax 7y agoI always get a little surprised when I see the new USB logo on things. It just looks so stylistically different from the old trident + "USB" logo that it's jarring.