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Russia blocks ProtonMail

359 points by novaRom 7y ago

Lucasoato 7y ago
> implying people would stop sending bomb threats if Proton mail was blocked
Timpy 7y ago
I've been considering leaving Gmail for a privacy focused email service but it seems so difficult to switch. So many accounts and services have my Gmail registered, I don't think I could collect them all. Can anybody using ProtonMail (or any other privacy focused email) recommend it? I feel like choosing an email provider these days is as serious as choosing a bank.
- johnpowell 7y ago
  When I switched from gmail to Fastmail I just slowly switched everything over. It took a few years before I was comfortable killing the gmail account. But I got there.
  - Lucasoato 7y ago
    Is fastmail as reliable as Proton mail?
    - peatmoss 7y ago
      I don’t know how reliable Proton Mail is, but Fastmail has been rock solid for me. That said, Russia banning Proton Mail is one hell of an endorsement for Proton Mail, in my estimation. I want to believe in the dream of ubiquitous end-to-end encrypted email. I don’t know if Proton is the right manifestation of that, but it certainly doesn’t hurt in terms of keeping the dream alive. So, I wouldn’t want to wave anyone off Proton, even though Fastmail is a great service. I think the major problem with any PGP Mail system is that nobody else uses it. I have a semi-technical friend who, for ideological reasons, decided to switch to Proton Mail. I dusted off a GPG-capable email client and provided him with my public key. After some technical headaches we exchanged a couple of emails and promptly went back to organizing the occasional happy hour or movie outing via Signal.
- rapnie 7y ago
  Proton user and content with it overall. Note that you don't need to switch. Make Proton your primary email and keep Gmail alongside. You can do the switching at your own leisure and reconfigure accounts as needed. Can keep Gmail for low-value subscriptions and spamcatcher. Also could automatically forward from Gmail to Proton (or other privacy-aware provider).
- RustyBucket 7y ago
  I am using both Proton Mail and VPN and am quite happy with it. In your case deeper problem is that so much of you digital life depends on a single point of failure - your Gmail account and it can go in a blink of an eye. Trick for a switch is to do one a time. Next time you visit a site, go to setting and set email to your new provider, like timpy+nytimes@protonmail.com or whatever. Also can advise you password manager, like 1Password, that will make switch and maintenance much easier.
- CallMeMarc 7y ago
  Buy a domain and use an email provider which supports custom domains (and maybe catch alls) and use this domain from now on. Makes switching providers way more easy as you don't use their domain in your email everywhere.
- kuroguro 7y ago
  One "downside" is having to run the local bridge application that proxies / decrypts your emails if you want a regular desktop client (say thunderbird) connect to it. Other than that haven't had any problems. Also the android app is really nice and so is the web client. Been running gmail and proton side by side for over a year, slowly moving all accounts and redirecting contacts to my proton address. Really suggest getting a custom domain so moving providers is as easy as changing MX records in the future.
  - samstave 7y ago
    Same, and also +1 to custom domain. However - the local bridge has been crashing over the last several days for unknown reasons. And, there are many sites which will not recognize @protonmail addresses as valid when signing up. I am in the process of weaning off gmail completely - but expect it to take a lot longer than expected. Ive already given up chrome completely on desktop - and run brave and ff. I wish there were a way to just delete my entire online presence and start a new one.
- ashamsjo 7y ago
  I use ProtonMail as my primary email address, I kept my Gmail account (auto-forwarding to Proton), and little by little I've been updating all my newsletters and accounts. Very little mail now passes through my Gmail, but I probably won't ever delete the account just in case.
- privateprofile 7y ago
  I'm moving away from gmail in favour of protonmail, so far I've experienced no issues. I've emailed my contacts informing of the switch, and I'm passively migrating important accounts/services; in fact, this forced me to consider which services are actually important and worth receiving e-mail from. If I go a couple of months without getting e-mails from some service and nothing bad comes from it, then I probably won't ever read it anyway and it's not important. As soon as their mobile app is better, I'll likely switch to their paid service, although a private calendar and a corresponding quality app would make the 5€/month seem like better value for money.
- kubav 7y ago
  It is quite good but I have found several issues which are annoying and solved by competition. Protonmail bridge on linux has problem with attachments bigger than 2 MB and it disconnects a lot. Android app is mediocre at best: - feels really slow - shows notifications for emails already read on web - deleting or moving email to different folder waits for confirmation from backend which is really confusing (you can still see deleted emails but you can't delete them again) I hope they will work on those UX issues otherwise I really like it.
- pablooliva 7y ago
  Can you not forward email from Gmail to ProtonMail? Regardless, use them in tandem and start moving every service over one by one. That is what I did and after a few months, no more Gmail.. and I am very happy that I made the move.
  - Vaslo 7y ago
    Doesn't gmail though still get to see your emails even with the forward?
    - vcavallo 7y ago
      it’s temporary until you’re fully switched over.
- clnhlzmn 7y ago
  I set up auto forwarding from my Gmail to my Protonmail and an auto reply from my Gmail that informs the sender that I have a new address (not including the new address). After a few months of this I had everything switched. I still maintain my Gmail account, but no new mail is going through it.
  - vcavallo 7y ago
    the autoreply is a great addition! i’ll have to add that to my switching process. thanks.
- Vaslo 7y ago
  I use ProtonMail and I still use my Gmail. I put the really important stuff like bank info etc with ProtonMail and keep things like Blog Subscription emails with Gmail.
- vcavallo 7y ago
  i’m doing it. forward all gmail to proton, reply from proton mail only. unsubscribe or more all junk over. eventually you’ll be fully switched over. takes time. definitely use a custom domain so you never have to do this again.
- AdmiralGinge 7y ago
  I use it for my primary email, absolutely no complaints about it. The web interface is nice and clean, the app is pretty good too. I migrated from Gmail about five years ago (after an invite from a friend) and I've not looked back.
- brianzelip 7y ago
  It's been great. Only downside has been some small hiccups with saving drafts via iOS app. The web app seems to be the source of truth and always reliable.
- everdrive 7y ago
  The approach is a lot more flawed than people necessarily realize. If I move my health insurance, my credit cards, banks, and utilities to protonmail, I'm not sure it's changing much. My credit card company is directly selling my information, and it doesn't matter if they emailed me some information or not. The same goes for the utilities. Gmail can't get at the information, which is a bonus, but they might simply be buying the information about you instead of scraping it from your inbox. Everyone else (the financial companies, the utilities, etc) are already selling your information.
- turk73 7y ago
  It's not difficult at all. First, you get the Protonmail account. Second, you set your Gmail acct to auto forward to your new account. Third, over a year or so, you taper off of Gmail or whatever. I also exported all my old Gmail to my computer. I have never once opened that export other than to check it was legit.
- mackrevinack 7y ago
  I switched a few years back. forwarded all mail from gmail then set up a filter that adds a label "GMAIL" in red text. anytime you see that label, go to the site and switch to protonmail. I'm at the point now where I only get see that label every one in a blue moon. I'll probably switch over for good soon enough but I'm not in a rush either
- eatbitseveryday 7y ago
  > so difficult to switch. So many accounts and services have my Gmail registered, I don't think I could collect them all. Register a domain (e.g. something23423.de for 15USD/year) and use that as your primary email address (e.g., name@something23423.de), then connect it to any provider you wish underneath via editing the MX records at the registrar. Many email providers support this and have instructions [1,2,3]. You can have Gmail then forward all emails to your new address, and then each email that arrives from Gmail, you know needs updating to the new address. You do not need to change your email address when switching providers. [1] https://www.fastmail.com/help/receive/domains.html https://www.fastmail.com/help/receive/domains.html [2] https://kb.mailbox.org/display/BMBOKBEN/Using+e-mail+addresses+of+your+domain https://kb.mailbox.org/display/BMBOKBEN/Using+e-mail+address... [3] https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/set-up-a-custom-domain/ https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/set-up-a-custo...
  - outworlder 7y ago
    Note that there's often an additional cost charged on the email provider's side to use custom DNS.
- npteljes 7y ago
  As part of my degoogling plan, I opted for Posteo. Upsides are that they are recommended by the FSF [0], and they run on an open source software stack [1], and were in the business for a good number of years. Changing my old address wasn't as much of a pain as I thought it would be, I personally needed to update around 30 services. After all this was done, I felt better, and still do after 2 years. Not sure of the other aftereffects regarding privacy and such. But I voted with my wallet, that's for sure. [0] https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems [1] https://posteo.de/en/site/about_posteo https://posteo.de/en/site/about_posteo
- eino 7y ago
  I've been using protonmail for the last 3 years, and I've been satisfied with it. For the switch, you don't have to do it at once. I've been migrating services one by one (but I'm quite the procrastinator), and still receive some mail on the gmail account. But I use PM as the primary email for new contacts and new services.
- leshenka 7y ago
  > it seems so difficult to switch I had an experience changing email address in the past and it's not that difficult, it's just time consuming. What I did is said to myself "that's it, I'm using this new address from now on". Then over the course of a year I monitored old email and evaluated each message. If I needed it (online shopping account, banking, etc), I went to whatever service sent it and changed my email. Some services don't support changing emails, in that case I would accept the loss and create a new account. > Can anybody using ProtonMail recommend it? Privacy concerns aside, to me it's not better nor worse than any other email provider. There is a caveat though. On Android (and web app) you can't search through messages' bodies, only by subject/sender/etc. This is because they don't index them. You can do this on desktop if you're using Bridge app with, say, Thunderbird. Thunderbird then will do the indexing.
  - desktop-app 7y ago
    > You can do this on desktop if you're using Bridge app with, say, Thunderbird. Thunderbird then will do the indexing. Bridge is for paid users only, and it's not open source thing. https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail enables full-text search support for free accounts if the "local store" enabled, described in https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail/wiki/FAQ https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail/wiki/FAQ.
mayniac 7y ago
Generally speaking, the type of person who uses ProtonMail is also the type of person who will trivially bypass this block.
- StrLght 7y ago
  Pretty much, but that isn’t the idea behind this block. Someone used ProtonMail to send a lot of different bomb threats to the police. Because of this block police now have some legal ground to ignore those threats.
  - dmos62 7y ago
    Knowing how often Kremlin retreats to shaping public perception through theatrics, it's easy to think of the bomb threats as an inside job.
    - mapcars 7y ago
      There is some information that the threats were sent by a guy who lost ton of money on recently crashed biggest Russian bitcoin exchange.
      - Kinrany 7y ago
        Do you have a source?
        mapcars 7y ago
        yep, it's in Russian though: https://news.mail.ru/society/40378912/ https://news.mail.ru/society/40378912/
        Kinrany 7y ago
        Primary source: https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50956160 https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50956160 (also in Russian) It seems all evidence is based on the emails sent by the author of the bomb threats. I don't think it works as evidence against this being an inside job.
Santosh83 7y ago
It isn't just Russia. Every major country is increasing surveillance drastically. As for smaller countries, well they're probably covertly manipulated by the bigger powers to such an extent that their claim for privacy is valid only so long as you don't cross one of the big powers. And if all else fails, it seems outright bans are being increasingly used. The best way to pushback against this would be if all of us would choose to deliberately use anonymous services. No govt can afford to ban millions of people including businesses. But of course that won't happen, so everyone's privacy is suffering as a result. It is not inconceivable to think of a future where encryption and Internet access as a whole are regulated and licensed out. That'd be the death knell of online anonymity, which I suspect was always just a flash in the pan... it was never going to last when the masses and their govts got their hands on the technology.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  Every country is increasing surveillance, but Russia is one of the few big economies where authorities don't give a shit about laws, even changing the Constitution in a few days to keep the dictator in power.
- philligr 7y ago
  So what options would you recommend? Genuinely curious.
m-p-3 7y ago
There's still Tor, and they have a hidden service as well https://protonirockerxow.onion https://protonirockerxow.onion
- techntoke 7y ago
  Will still not work for email providers who servers are located in Russia.
gfiorav 7y ago
I know it's easy to play conspiracy, but after watching this piece [0] on "active measures", it wouldn't surprise me that FSB finally found a way to hack proton mail, or the way to circumvent the block will expose some part of it. Hence this measure. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-disinformation-fake-news-elections.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-d...
- thenewnewguy 7y ago
  Why would they block a service they found a way to compromise?
  - dariusj18 7y ago
    To draw attention to it and make people think it's the thing to use.
    - generalpass 7y ago
      A honeypot for dissidents.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- krn 7y ago
  > it wouldn't surprise me that FSB finally found a way to hack proton mail Well, I certainly wouldn't consider that such a big achievement[1]: > German security expert Thomas Roth published a video over the weekend showing how he exploited a trivial vulnerability found in ProtonMail's systems: using the Chrome web browser's developer mode, he was able to edit an outgoing message to embed arbitrary JavaScript code, which was executed in a would-be victim's browser when opened within the ProtonMail.ch site. > Roth said he had released the video now because ProtonMail had fixed various flaws he reported back in May via email. However, the Swiss consortium hadn't credited or warned users of his discovery, he claimed, hence his open disclosure of the bugs. > "The reason I posted the video was because they did not communicate the security problems to their users – and did not even notify me when the bugs were patched," Roth told The Register. > The researcher said he had reported five vulnerabilities including a cross-site request forgery bug that apparently allowed an attacker to change victims' email signatures, further opening them to malicious cross-site scripts. [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/07/protonmail_fail_javascript/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/07/protonmail_fail_jav...
foxx-boxx 7y ago
It’s no Russia, but Russian gov’t. Russian population can’t throw this regime out. This government is a lot like Saudis royal family.
- Noughmad 7y ago
  Russia, unlike Saudi Arabia, is a democracy. They have elections. If the Russian people wanted to throw the regime out, they would have. Yes, you could make a good argument about propaganda, freedom of the press, and the unfortunate things that happen to leaders of opposition to Putin. But that is all to make the the population doesn't want to throw the regime out, not that it can't.
  - ChrisRR 7y ago
    A democracy with things that happen to anyone who runs against Putin and anyone who speaks out against Putin is not a democracy.
  - JulianMorrison 7y ago
    An election where the public isn't free to get a real opposition candidate on the ballot, isn't a real election. Even if the rest of it was remotely free which it is not, it doesn't matter if you're offered Hobson's choice. Putin is a dictator. Russia is a dictatorship.
    - konart 7y ago
      And if all of the new edits to the constitution will pass (they will) he will be call The Supreme Ruler.
  - ekvilibrist 7y ago
    > Russia, unlike Saudi Arabia, is a democracy. They have elections. Elections alone aren't the sole definition of a full democracy. Hell, even Iraq under Saddam had elections...
  - alopex_plenus 7y ago
Vaslo 7y ago
"Roskomnadzor said that ProtonMail had refused to provide Russian authorities with information on the owners of email accounts allegedly associated with fake bomb threats." I know ProtonMail is denying they got requests but hopefully this is a good advertisement for their willingness to protect individuals.
- bnt 7y ago
  And if those bomb threats proved right and people get killed? Would you still praise Proton for not working with Law enforcement?
  - cblades 7y ago
    I hope so. When the phone system was manually-operated switch boards, should the phone companies have been responsible for listening to every call and reporting suspicious activity to the police?
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      That's not the same scenario. Your scenario involves listening to everyone. The GP's scenario involves listening to a specific person with probable cause.
      - takeda 7y ago
        Which translates to listening to everyone. Once they expose data of one user they will get requests for others. Patriot act which supposed to protect population from terrorists not only failed to accomplish it, it was used in war on drugs.
        lern_too_spel 7y ago
        > Once they expose data of one user they will get requests for others. How is this any different from phone wiretaps or other surveillance orders outside of email?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pdimitar 7y ago
Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail. And it's not like Russians, Chinese and generally people in countries whose governments are in the habit of censoring the internet aren't used to using Tor and/or VPNs to dodge censorship.
- x12kk1w 7y ago
  > Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail. If you live in Russia, yes. Protonmails's headquarters were in SF and some of their infra in Lithuania last time I looked. Remember Crypto AG...
- Jerry2 7y ago
  > Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail. ... if you live in Russia.
  - throwawaylolx 7y ago
    Not sure why you're getting downvoted: just because ProtonMail allegedly refused to cooperate with Russia, it doesn't mean they must act similarly when the request comes from a nation that can leverege more diplomatic pressure.
    - aksll 7y ago
      Protonmail threads on HN are always highly censored.
    - thinkloop 7y ago
      Yes, but if Russia can't crack it, and needs to go the diplomatic route, that's a good attribute for your privacy software to have regardless of where you live.
    - C14L 7y ago
      They are in Switzerland and Swiss judges are pretty independent.
  - 7y ago
yakireev 7y ago
Many commenters seem to miss the most important point here. If users from Russia can't access ProtonMail - that's not that much of a deal. But if mail from ProtonMail stops reaching Russian email addresses - @mail.ru, @yandex.ru are as common in Russia as @gmail.com - that's a big problem for ProtonMail and its users.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  That is probably more concerning, although ProtonMail is not something I typically see outside of the HN crowd and similar. I met only one total stranger who gave me a ProtonMail email address.
  - yakireev 7y ago
    I was considering moving to ProtonMail (honestly, not being able to send mail to Russian addresses is now a blocker), but if I ever do, I won't give you a @protonmail address either, because I won't have one. If you want to actually own your email address, it should be on your own domain. Then you can change your mail provider without changing your primary email address.
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      I have yet to get told a personalized email address to this day. I want to make a shift to a personalized email domain, but I have yet to go through with it. I want a domain thats easily memorable and easy for almost anybody to type out.
      - WildGreenLeave 7y ago
        This, for me, is the reason why I still give out my personal @gmail.com address because people understand that. It is troublesome enough to explain people how to spell my name correctly, the last thing I need is that I have to spell the part after the @ sign too.
- ryanisnan 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
n4ut 7y ago
I've never been so proud to be a customer of a service; this is how you know they're doing something right.
lug_thro 7y ago
ProtonMail has also been blocked in the Luhansk and the Donetsk People's Republic. Few will notice it. The people who live in those unrecognised states mostly use Yandex Mail, Mail.ru and Gmail.
atatatko 7y ago
It's a nothing more than advertising of a great privacy service, if totalitarian states like TerroRussia and China block it. I'm a happy Premium user. PS It's funny to hear some accusations about terrorism from our state, officially supporting terrorism. Yes, I'm Russian if any.

359 points by novaRom 7y ago

> implying people would stop sending bomb threats if Proton mail was blocked

I've been considering leaving Gmail for a privacy focused email service but it seems so difficult to switch. So many accounts and services have my Gmail registered, I don't think I could collect them all. Can anybody using ProtonMail (or any other privacy focused email) recommend it? I feel like choosing an email provider these days is as serious as choosing a bank.

johnpowell 7y ago
When I switched from gmail to Fastmail I just slowly switched everything over. It took a few years before I was comfortable killing the gmail account. But I got there.
- Lucasoato 7y ago
  Is fastmail as reliable as Proton mail?
  - peatmoss 7y ago
    I don’t know how reliable Proton Mail is, but Fastmail has been rock solid for me. That said, Russia banning Proton Mail is one hell of an endorsement for Proton Mail, in my estimation. I want to believe in the dream of ubiquitous end-to-end encrypted email. I don’t know if Proton is the right manifestation of that, but it certainly doesn’t hurt in terms of keeping the dream alive. So, I wouldn’t want to wave anyone off Proton, even though Fastmail is a great service. I think the major problem with any PGP Mail system is that nobody else uses it. I have a semi-technical friend who, for ideological reasons, decided to switch to Proton Mail. I dusted off a GPG-capable email client and provided him with my public key. After some technical headaches we exchanged a couple of emails and promptly went back to organizing the occasional happy hour or movie outing via Signal.
rapnie 7y ago
Proton user and content with it overall. Note that you don't need to switch. Make Proton your primary email and keep Gmail alongside. You can do the switching at your own leisure and reconfigure accounts as needed. Can keep Gmail for low-value subscriptions and spamcatcher. Also could automatically forward from Gmail to Proton (or other privacy-aware provider).
RustyBucket 7y ago
I am using both Proton Mail and VPN and am quite happy with it. In your case deeper problem is that so much of you digital life depends on a single point of failure - your Gmail account and it can go in a blink of an eye. Trick for a switch is to do one a time. Next time you visit a site, go to setting and set email to your new provider, like timpy+nytimes@protonmail.com or whatever. Also can advise you password manager, like 1Password, that will make switch and maintenance much easier.
CallMeMarc 7y ago
Buy a domain and use an email provider which supports custom domains (and maybe catch alls) and use this domain from now on. Makes switching providers way more easy as you don't use their domain in your email everywhere.
kuroguro 7y ago
One "downside" is having to run the local bridge application that proxies / decrypts your emails if you want a regular desktop client (say thunderbird) connect to it. Other than that haven't had any problems. Also the android app is really nice and so is the web client. Been running gmail and proton side by side for over a year, slowly moving all accounts and redirecting contacts to my proton address. Really suggest getting a custom domain so moving providers is as easy as changing MX records in the future.
- samstave 7y ago
  Same, and also +1 to custom domain. However - the local bridge has been crashing over the last several days for unknown reasons. And, there are many sites which will not recognize @protonmail addresses as valid when signing up. I am in the process of weaning off gmail completely - but expect it to take a lot longer than expected. Ive already given up chrome completely on desktop - and run brave and ff. I wish there were a way to just delete my entire online presence and start a new one.
ashamsjo 7y ago
I use ProtonMail as my primary email address, I kept my Gmail account (auto-forwarding to Proton), and little by little I've been updating all my newsletters and accounts. Very little mail now passes through my Gmail, but I probably won't ever delete the account just in case.
privateprofile 7y ago
I'm moving away from gmail in favour of protonmail, so far I've experienced no issues. I've emailed my contacts informing of the switch, and I'm passively migrating important accounts/services; in fact, this forced me to consider which services are actually important and worth receiving e-mail from. If I go a couple of months without getting e-mails from some service and nothing bad comes from it, then I probably won't ever read it anyway and it's not important. As soon as their mobile app is better, I'll likely switch to their paid service, although a private calendar and a corresponding quality app would make the 5€/month seem like better value for money.
kubav 7y ago
It is quite good but I have found several issues which are annoying and solved by competition. Protonmail bridge on linux has problem with attachments bigger than 2 MB and it disconnects a lot. Android app is mediocre at best: - feels really slow - shows notifications for emails already read on web - deleting or moving email to different folder waits for confirmation from backend which is really confusing (you can still see deleted emails but you can't delete them again) I hope they will work on those UX issues otherwise I really like it.
pablooliva 7y ago
Can you not forward email from Gmail to ProtonMail? Regardless, use them in tandem and start moving every service over one by one. That is what I did and after a few months, no more Gmail.. and I am very happy that I made the move.
- Vaslo 7y ago
  Doesn't gmail though still get to see your emails even with the forward?
  - vcavallo 7y ago
    it’s temporary until you’re fully switched over.
clnhlzmn 7y ago
I set up auto forwarding from my Gmail to my Protonmail and an auto reply from my Gmail that informs the sender that I have a new address (not including the new address). After a few months of this I had everything switched. I still maintain my Gmail account, but no new mail is going through it.
- vcavallo 7y ago
  the autoreply is a great addition! i’ll have to add that to my switching process. thanks.
Vaslo 7y ago
I use ProtonMail and I still use my Gmail. I put the really important stuff like bank info etc with ProtonMail and keep things like Blog Subscription emails with Gmail.
vcavallo 7y ago
i’m doing it. forward all gmail to proton, reply from proton mail only. unsubscribe or more all junk over. eventually you’ll be fully switched over. takes time. definitely use a custom domain so you never have to do this again.
AdmiralGinge 7y ago
I use it for my primary email, absolutely no complaints about it. The web interface is nice and clean, the app is pretty good too. I migrated from Gmail about five years ago (after an invite from a friend) and I've not looked back.
brianzelip 7y ago
It's been great. Only downside has been some small hiccups with saving drafts via iOS app. The web app seems to be the source of truth and always reliable.
everdrive 7y ago
The approach is a lot more flawed than people necessarily realize. If I move my health insurance, my credit cards, banks, and utilities to protonmail, I'm not sure it's changing much. My credit card company is directly selling my information, and it doesn't matter if they emailed me some information or not. The same goes for the utilities. Gmail can't get at the information, which is a bonus, but they might simply be buying the information about you instead of scraping it from your inbox. Everyone else (the financial companies, the utilities, etc) are already selling your information.
turk73 7y ago
It's not difficult at all. First, you get the Protonmail account. Second, you set your Gmail acct to auto forward to your new account. Third, over a year or so, you taper off of Gmail or whatever. I also exported all my old Gmail to my computer. I have never once opened that export other than to check it was legit.
mackrevinack 7y ago
I switched a few years back. forwarded all mail from gmail then set up a filter that adds a label "GMAIL" in red text. anytime you see that label, go to the site and switch to protonmail. I'm at the point now where I only get see that label every one in a blue moon. I'll probably switch over for good soon enough but I'm not in a rush either
eatbitseveryday 7y ago
> so difficult to switch. So many accounts and services have my Gmail registered, I don't think I could collect them all. Register a domain (e.g. something23423.de for 15USD/year) and use that as your primary email address (e.g., name@something23423.de), then connect it to any provider you wish underneath via editing the MX records at the registrar. Many email providers support this and have instructions [1,2,3]. You can have Gmail then forward all emails to your new address, and then each email that arrives from Gmail, you know needs updating to the new address. You do not need to change your email address when switching providers. [1] https://www.fastmail.com/help/receive/domains.html https://www.fastmail.com/help/receive/domains.html [2] https://kb.mailbox.org/display/BMBOKBEN/Using+e-mail+addresses+of+your+domain https://kb.mailbox.org/display/BMBOKBEN/Using+e-mail+address... [3] https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/set-up-a-custom-domain/ https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/set-up-a-custo...
- outworlder 7y ago
  Note that there's often an additional cost charged on the email provider's side to use custom DNS.
npteljes 7y ago
As part of my degoogling plan, I opted for Posteo. Upsides are that they are recommended by the FSF [0], and they run on an open source software stack [1], and were in the business for a good number of years. Changing my old address wasn't as much of a pain as I thought it would be, I personally needed to update around 30 services. After all this was done, I felt better, and still do after 2 years. Not sure of the other aftereffects regarding privacy and such. But I voted with my wallet, that's for sure. [0] https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems [1] https://posteo.de/en/site/about_posteo https://posteo.de/en/site/about_posteo
eino 7y ago
I've been using protonmail for the last 3 years, and I've been satisfied with it. For the switch, you don't have to do it at once. I've been migrating services one by one (but I'm quite the procrastinator), and still receive some mail on the gmail account. But I use PM as the primary email for new contacts and new services.
leshenka 7y ago
> it seems so difficult to switch I had an experience changing email address in the past and it's not that difficult, it's just time consuming. What I did is said to myself "that's it, I'm using this new address from now on". Then over the course of a year I monitored old email and evaluated each message. If I needed it (online shopping account, banking, etc), I went to whatever service sent it and changed my email. Some services don't support changing emails, in that case I would accept the loss and create a new account. > Can anybody using ProtonMail recommend it? Privacy concerns aside, to me it's not better nor worse than any other email provider. There is a caveat though. On Android (and web app) you can't search through messages' bodies, only by subject/sender/etc. This is because they don't index them. You can do this on desktop if you're using Bridge app with, say, Thunderbird. Thunderbird then will do the indexing.
- desktop-app 7y ago
  > You can do this on desktop if you're using Bridge app with, say, Thunderbird. Thunderbird then will do the indexing. Bridge is for paid users only, and it's not open source thing. https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail enables full-text search support for free accounts if the "local store" enabled, described in https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail/wiki/FAQ https://github.com/vladimiry/ElectronMail/wiki/FAQ.

mayniac 7y ago

Generally speaking, the type of person who uses ProtonMail is also the type of person who will trivially bypass this block.

StrLght 7y ago
Pretty much, but that isn’t the idea behind this block. Someone used ProtonMail to send a lot of different bomb threats to the police. Because of this block police now have some legal ground to ignore those threats.
- dmos62 7y ago
  Knowing how often Kremlin retreats to shaping public perception through theatrics, it's easy to think of the bomb threats as an inside job.
  - mapcars 7y ago
    There is some information that the threats were sent by a guy who lost ton of money on recently crashed biggest Russian bitcoin exchange.
    - Kinrany 7y ago
      Do you have a source?
      - mapcars 7y ago
        yep, it's in Russian though: https://news.mail.ru/society/40378912/ https://news.mail.ru/society/40378912/
        Kinrany 7y ago
        Primary source: https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50956160 https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50956160 (also in Russian) It seems all evidence is based on the emails sent by the author of the bomb threats. I don't think it works as evidence against this being an inside job.

Santosh83 7y ago

It isn't just Russia. Every major country is increasing surveillance drastically. As for smaller countries, well they're probably covertly manipulated by the bigger powers to such an extent that their claim for privacy is valid only so long as you don't cross one of the big powers. And if all else fails, it seems outright bans are being increasingly used. The best way to pushback against this would be if all of us would choose to deliberately use anonymous services. No govt can afford to ban millions of people including businesses. But of course that won't happen, so everyone's privacy is suffering as a result. It is not inconceivable to think of a future where encryption and Internet access as a whole are regulated and licensed out. That'd be the death knell of online anonymity, which I suspect was always just a flash in the pan... it was never going to last when the masses and their govts got their hands on the technology.

Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
Every country is increasing surveillance, but Russia is one of the few big economies where authorities don't give a shit about laws, even changing the Constitution in a few days to keep the dictator in power.
philligr 7y ago
So what options would you recommend? Genuinely curious.

m-p-3 7y ago

There's still Tor, and they have a hidden service as well https://protonirockerxow.onion https://protonirockerxow.onion

techntoke 7y ago
Will still not work for email providers who servers are located in Russia.

gfiorav 7y ago

I know it's easy to play conspiracy, but after watching this piece [0] on "active measures", it wouldn't surprise me that FSB finally found a way to hack proton mail, or the way to circumvent the block will expose some part of it. Hence this measure. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-disinformation-fake-news-elections.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-d...

thenewnewguy 7y ago
Why would they block a service they found a way to compromise?
- dariusj18 7y ago
  To draw attention to it and make people think it's the thing to use.
  - generalpass 7y ago
    A honeypot for dissidents.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
krn 7y ago
> it wouldn't surprise me that FSB finally found a way to hack proton mail Well, I certainly wouldn't consider that such a big achievement[1]: > German security expert Thomas Roth published a video over the weekend showing how he exploited a trivial vulnerability found in ProtonMail's systems: using the Chrome web browser's developer mode, he was able to edit an outgoing message to embed arbitrary JavaScript code, which was executed in a would-be victim's browser when opened within the ProtonMail.ch site. > Roth said he had released the video now because ProtonMail had fixed various flaws he reported back in May via email. However, the Swiss consortium hadn't credited or warned users of his discovery, he claimed, hence his open disclosure of the bugs. > "The reason I posted the video was because they did not communicate the security problems to their users – and did not even notify me when the bugs were patched," Roth told The Register. > The researcher said he had reported five vulnerabilities including a cross-site request forgery bug that apparently allowed an attacker to change victims' email signatures, further opening them to malicious cross-site scripts. [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/07/protonmail_fail_javascript/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/07/protonmail_fail_jav...

foxx-boxx 7y ago

It’s no Russia, but Russian gov’t. Russian population can’t throw this regime out. This government is a lot like Saudis royal family.

Noughmad 7y ago
Russia, unlike Saudi Arabia, is a democracy. They have elections. If the Russian people wanted to throw the regime out, they would have. Yes, you could make a good argument about propaganda, freedom of the press, and the unfortunate things that happen to leaders of opposition to Putin. But that is all to make the the population doesn't want to throw the regime out, not that it can't.
- ChrisRR 7y ago
  A democracy with things that happen to anyone who runs against Putin and anyone who speaks out against Putin is not a democracy.
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  An election where the public isn't free to get a real opposition candidate on the ballot, isn't a real election. Even if the rest of it was remotely free which it is not, it doesn't matter if you're offered Hobson's choice. Putin is a dictator. Russia is a dictatorship.
  - konart 7y ago
    And if all of the new edits to the constitution will pass (they will) he will be call The Supreme Ruler.
- ekvilibrist 7y ago
  > Russia, unlike Saudi Arabia, is a democracy. They have elections. Elections alone aren't the sole definition of a full democracy. Hell, even Iraq under Saddam had elections...
- alopex_plenus 7y ago

Vaslo 7y ago

"Roskomnadzor said that ProtonMail had refused to provide Russian authorities with information on the owners of email accounts allegedly associated with fake bomb threats." I know ProtonMail is denying they got requests but hopefully this is a good advertisement for their willingness to protect individuals.

bnt 7y ago
And if those bomb threats proved right and people get killed? Would you still praise Proton for not working with Law enforcement?
- cblades 7y ago
  I hope so. When the phone system was manually-operated switch boards, should the phone companies have been responsible for listening to every call and reporting suspicious activity to the police?
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    That's not the same scenario. Your scenario involves listening to everyone. The GP's scenario involves listening to a specific person with probable cause.
    - takeda 7y ago
      Which translates to listening to everyone. Once they expose data of one user they will get requests for others. Patriot act which supposed to protect population from terrorists not only failed to accomplish it, it was used in war on drugs.
      - lern_too_spel 7y ago
        > Once they expose data of one user they will get requests for others. How is this any different from phone wiretaps or other surveillance orders outside of email?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

pdimitar 7y ago

Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail. And it's not like Russians, Chinese and generally people in countries whose governments are in the habit of censoring the internet aren't used to using Tor and/or VPNs to dodge censorship.

x12kk1w 7y ago
> Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail. If you live in Russia, yes. Protonmails's headquarters were in SF and some of their infra in Lithuania last time I looked. Remember Crypto AG...
Jerry2 7y ago
> Well, that in my eyes is a very solid advertising in favour of ProtonMail. ... if you live in Russia.
- throwawaylolx 7y ago
  Not sure why you're getting downvoted: just because ProtonMail allegedly refused to cooperate with Russia, it doesn't mean they must act similarly when the request comes from a nation that can leverege more diplomatic pressure.
  - aksll 7y ago
    Protonmail threads on HN are always highly censored.
  - thinkloop 7y ago
    Yes, but if Russia can't crack it, and needs to go the diplomatic route, that's a good attribute for your privacy software to have regardless of where you live.
  - C14L 7y ago
    They are in Switzerland and Swiss judges are pretty independent.
- 7y ago

yakireev 7y ago

Many commenters seem to miss the most important point here. If users from Russia can't access ProtonMail - that's not that much of a deal. But if mail from ProtonMail stops reaching Russian email addresses - @mail.ru, @yandex.ru are as common in Russia as @gmail.com - that's a big problem for ProtonMail and its users.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
That is probably more concerning, although ProtonMail is not something I typically see outside of the HN crowd and similar. I met only one total stranger who gave me a ProtonMail email address.
- yakireev 7y ago
  I was considering moving to ProtonMail (honestly, not being able to send mail to Russian addresses is now a blocker), but if I ever do, I won't give you a @protonmail address either, because I won't have one. If you want to actually own your email address, it should be on your own domain. Then you can change your mail provider without changing your primary email address.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    I have yet to get told a personalized email address to this day. I want to make a shift to a personalized email domain, but I have yet to go through with it. I want a domain thats easily memorable and easy for almost anybody to type out.
    - WildGreenLeave 7y ago
      This, for me, is the reason why I still give out my personal @gmail.com address because people understand that. It is troublesome enough to explain people how to spell my name correctly, the last thing I need is that I have to spell the part after the @ sign too.
ryanisnan 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

n4ut 7y ago

I've never been so proud to be a customer of a service; this is how you know they're doing something right.

lug_thro 7y ago

ProtonMail has also been blocked in the Luhansk and the Donetsk People's Republic. Few will notice it. The people who live in those unrecognised states mostly use Yandex Mail, Mail.ru and Gmail.

atatatko 7y ago

It's a nothing more than advertising of a great privacy service, if totalitarian states like TerroRussia and China block it. I'm a happy Premium user. PS It's funny to hear some accusations about terrorism from our state, officially supporting terrorism. Yes, I'm Russian if any.