9 ms·

Netflix original series no longer get time to breathe

88 points by smacktoward 7y ago

eganist 7y ago
Among other reasons I canceled my subscription last night, Netflix's current data-driven culture is driving: • Good shows to shut down, • Terrible, Awful, No Good, Very Bad concepts ("The Goop Lab") to be approved—actually, this was the named reason for why I canceled; I actually wrote "The Goop Lab" in the Other cancellation box. https://globalnews.ca/news/6488433/goop-uk-health-warning-gwyneth-paltrow/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6488433/goop-uk-health-warning-gw... • Blockbusters to lapse, • Fillers to be licensed. It's just not worth the 15.99/mo I've been paying them anymore, which is unfortunate. Five years ago, originals had serious promise.
- zyang 7y ago
  I was about to close my account and realized there was a lower tier, $8/mon.
  - eganist 7y ago
    You're not wrong, but in standard def for one device, it doesn't work with my use case (laptop/tablet). Works on phones/smaller screens for sure.
tpmx 7y ago
I would have shut down my Netflix subscription two months ago, but since I'm sharing it with my 70+ mom who's still enjoying it for some reason, I'm keeping it going for now. Otherwise, for me (~40 yo male in Sweden), Netflix isn't very interesting at all. I think its data-driven culture is awesome at creating shows that are fascinating to its California-based execs. Also: I wish they'd tone down the politics. I'm with Bill Burr on this: Not every single fxxing thing has to be about politics. We get it. We're onboard. We don't need to be preached at in every singly fxxking show though. Remember, we're paying for a service here. We expect being entertained. Not getting preached at.
- eganist 7y ago
  You have the power.
  - tpmx 7y ago
    This isn't a complaint.
    - cambalache 7y ago
      This happens all the time here and to be honest, HN is one of the best sites regarding censorship. It is pretty scary how in the last 5 or so years the policing of online discourse has ramped up and it is accelerating. I know, I know if you don't like it, spin up your own mastodon instance. If you don't want to seat back on the bus, create your own bus service and so on.
    - ravenstine 7y ago
      The voting system on HN is a joke. To some degree it does work for an audience of intellectuals, but it wouldn't work at all with a general audience. Everyone just downvotes what offends their sensibilities, but because messages get greyed out, moved down the page, and eventually hidden with relatively few downvotes, they're effectively saying "nobody should hear your opinion", no matter how civil your language. Just take the downvotes as a badge of pride. I expect this very comment to get downvoted and those same voters won't even bother to tell me why I'm wrong.
      - jimktrains2 7y ago
        I've always felt that as a general rule across all platforms, downvotes should be required to come with a hand typed, not selected from a drop-down, comment of at least 50 characters. Sure, I could just hold down 'r' and be done with it, but I feel like the mods could easily clean that up.
        dang 7y ago
        Comments about downvotes are among the lowest-quality comments that get posted here. Requiring more of them would be a big mistake. If a user has something meaningful to say about how they disagree with another comment, they already can—and do—reply. If they don't have anything substantial to say, and downvoting prevents them from saying it, that's a feature not a bug. It's tempting to imagine that placing hurdles in front of users could solve the quality problem, but IMO that's a fantasy. There are no easy ways to do that and no technical fixes for it.
pkorzeniewski 7y ago
I had Netflix for a brief moment and all their original series felt really dull, I couldn't find one that would hook me for longer than several episodes, I was almost forcing myself to watch them - I much prefer old stuff, maybe not so stunning visually, but with much more substance, that's why I switched to HBO GO.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  Funny. I can't stand most of the stuff on HBO. I had it for a few months to watch GoT, but I couldn't find anything else I wanted to watch. Although recently Watchmen was really good. I love a ton of stuff from Netflix: Ozark, Unbelievable, Witcher, Lost In Space, Altered Carbon, and a lot more stuff I can't think of at the moment.
  - crocodiletears 7y ago
    If you have a Prime subscription, you might appreciate HBO's Rome. But I do agree that their catalogue can be pretty hit or miss.
frank086 7y ago
I moved back to DVD.com, 9.99 for one disc at a time and you can get Blurays (with 7.1 sound, something no one seems to stream) of the stuff Netflix can't stream because it went to Disney+, Hulu, etc. They also still have a reasonably priced 3 disc program if you trend more toward TV binge watching than movies. Plus add in MakeMKV and Plex and there is a nice little ecosystem. Not as convenient as the golden age of Netflix, but now that everyone wants their own streaming service, I'd rather just cycle through a couple discs a week than do the whole lets get Disney+ for the Mandalorian, okay bingd watched that now lets get Netflix for Witcher, oh now Season 2 of the Mandalorian is out, back to Disney, oh look HBO has a new thing, etc.
- eganist 7y ago
  Before anyone says anything: DVD.com is owned by Netflix. And honestly, if you're hooked on the availability of content and don't want to ditch the Netflix pipeline completely, switching to DVD.com probably makes sense. The revenue shift from Netflix to DVD.com will have the same net impact on spending decisions.
  - frank086 7y ago
    Yeah, they even have a bundle deal to have DVDs and some level of streaming. It is interesting because at one point Netflix was trying to sell of the disc shipping business because physical media was dead and the whole service felt neglected. Now that mailing you a disc is the only way they can get you certain content, the service is back closer to the level it was when they were killing Blockbuster.
- Hamuko 7y ago
  >but now that everyone wants their own streaming service Well, everyone wants their own subscription service, whether it be video-on-demand or a calendar app.
  - theklr 7y ago
    I don’t think that everyone “wants” their own subscription service, it’s that it’s become the only sustainable business model to meet the demands of operating.
Guest0918231 7y ago
Sometimes I wonder why Netflix doesn't produce more content with small creators. What I'm imagining... 1. Produce some fitness content. Yoga, stretching, meditation, calisthenics, etc. I get the impression there are countless talented fitness trainers that would love to produce regular content while being cheap to hire. Look at Peloton, they charge $40/mo to live stream classes after people spend thousands on a bike. I imagine a lot of people would watch live or prerecorded fitness classes on Netflix, become loyal to the trainers and stay subscribed for their content. 2. Hire some YouTubers. I spend more time on YouTube than Netflix. Lots of great comedy, educational, travel, and tech content there. Most of them are also struggling for money and would jump on an exclusive Netflix partnership for a fraction of what Netflix pays for other content. 3. Daily news. Find a few entertaining personalities and journalists that can report on the daily news. Why can't I switch on Netflix today to get the latest on coronavirus? Lastly... let me search the content. Why can't I just browse comedy movies released in the last few years, or horror movies sorted by release date? I find Netflix such a terrible and frustrating interface and I have to scroll past the same movie or series a dozen times as I go through the content. I've had Netflix for years, and I still feel like I have no idea what is actually on there because it's so annoying to browse. I think I'll likely cancel next year.
- dudus 7y ago
  News specifically would be fantastic. I currently struggle to find good news sources. The sites I used to go to now all lock up after X articles and I'm not willing to sign up for every single one of them while there's not one that deliver all the news I want. I used to have youtubeTV just for the news channels, but ended up cancelling because I felt I was way overpaying since sports HAD to be baked in.
- baddox 7y ago
  I’m not sure why any popular YouTuber would go to Netflix. I doubt it could ever make financial sense. The distribution must be so much lower on Netflix. I would be worried if any of my favorite YouTubers went to Netflix because I would be afraid that’s where their content would go to die. Netflix discovery is absolutely terrible.
MobileVet 7y ago
Netflix is definitely pursuing the quantity over quality strategy, which doesn’t appeal to me. That said, there are some really strong offerings hidden in the noise. The shift to originals over licensed is hurting the average quality level... but it definitely makes sense as a long term play. It still makes sense for me and I am happy support the many gambles they take with content... even if most are lackluster.
- dorfsmay 7y ago
  I feel the world is splitting in two: One half watching YouTube at 1.5 speed and skipping the first Wadsworth constant minutes of it, reading Wikipedia and looking for more ways to get directly at the essence of things. The other half who wants to pay a fixed monthly price for somebody (Netflix today) to keep them "entertained" for hours while filling up their non-working hours.
  - RandomGuyDTB 7y ago
    It's always been like that, since when television was mostly free and you watched the same four channels every day unless you preferred the library because you could browse encyclopediae and find one or two specialized books about a topic you were interested in. The 'Net just made us more aware of the latter category.
    - dorfsmay 7y ago
      The big difference is that Netflix partly replace cinemas for some people but they are adding less and less movies and more and more series.
  - MobileVet 7y ago
    Are you not entertained!
    - MobileVet 7y ago
      Down voting a movie reference in a thread about Netflix... rough day.
RHSeeger 7y ago
I feel like the odd man out, with everyone shitting on Netflix and it's original content. I love my Netflix subscription. There's tons for my (young) daughter to watch. There's tons for my wife and I to watch (Sabrina, Daybreak, Magicions, Badlands). There's tons for me to watch without my wife (mostly anime, etc). Sure, some of the shows are cheesy, but some aren't, and I like the mix. They don't have every movie I want to see, but they're also not my only source for entertainment. As one source of multiple, I think they're great. I can't think of any service that would be good for a single source of entertainment. I honestly just don't understand the hate.
- 7thaccount 7y ago
  The Magicians is such an amazing show. Modern gritty, but awesomely fun adult fantasy series. It is one of a few recent shows from ScyFy that they got right (Magicians, The Expanse, Killjoys)...etc.
  - ianai 7y ago
    Yep, Magicians made a connection with me that few shows have in a long time. There’s just something so human about every season, but still out there and fun/funny. I hope if they end this batch of storylines that they start up a new sequel to the show. But back on topic, Magicians isn’t a Netflix show. But they’d be smart to purchase it from SyFy if that were to become possible.
    - RHSeeger 7y ago
      I watched the first couple seasons of it on Netflix. I only figured out it wasn't a Netflix show after that. Same thing happened with The Good Place (which is amazing).
      - ianai 7y ago
        I did the same for the good place. Good point. Netflix can and does act as a springboard to that kind of stuff - some could miss out on the magicians or the good place and other such shows if they didn’t find them first on Netflix.
ravenstine 7y ago
This is isn't just about Netflix, though I'm sure there were some people who saw Netflix as a bastion for good TV. At this point, entertainment is all about quantity of mediocrity and CGI spectacle. They have the formula to keep most people watching while putting in the least amount of effort in terms of storytelling. If you can psychoanalyze your audience, you can keep them hooked and feed them whatever messages you want. All Netflix needed was to set up people's expectations and then gradually reduce their excellence so the audience continues to watch despite the mediocre quality. If more people besides those on HN cancel their Netflix subscriptions, that will be a good thing because maybe they'll stop "binge watching" with pride and start doing other things with their time. I'm pessimistic on both fronts because I don't think the average person is going to cancel their Netflix, and even if they did I think they'll continue to vegetate while watching Amazon Prime, Disney+, Hulu, CBS All Access, etc.
mathattack 7y ago
We barely watch it but even if we see one movie a month it’s much cheaper than the theater. Factor in concessions and it’s a steal.
aguyfromnb 7y ago
I'm actually surprised that anyone thought that Netflix would ever end up as anything but a "TV Network", albeit with a nice interface. The business model is what it is. All the hype, the stratospheric share price, the prognostications of "disruption" (which they certainly did) don't change the fact that it's all about the content. And in that sense, Netflix doesn't really have any advantages. Creators will go where the pay is best, which leaves less for the distributor; winner's curse and all that.
- segmondy 7y ago
  Netflix is bigger than any TV Network, the only thing missing is live shows but not all TV networks carry live shows. If Netflix decided to push content instead of allowing it to be pulled, they have enough content to have 50+ channels.
SirensOfTitan 7y ago
I had hoped Netflix would usher in another golden age of film: throwing small budgets at innovative content creators (like Binging with Babish), up-and-coming auteurs (think like early 80s David Lynch). That didn’t happen. The data driven approach regresses content to the mean and I worry stifles creativity. Netflix doesn’t seem to get that I’m not going to invest my time in a show that likely won’t get a second season, and if it doe almost certainly never a third. I find it mildly heartbreaking when I get invested in characters just enough and then I never get to see their archs finished. I’m still so sad they canceled The OA.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  > Netflix doesn’t seem to get that I’m not going to invest my time in a show that likely won’t get a second season, and if it doe almost certainly never a third. Do you think that they don't get this, or that it's not true for most of their audience and thus not relevant? Ie, they don't need to cater to your specific individual preference unless it's shared relatively widely, and I'm not convinced that it is. A lot of people just watch TV to have something "good enough" on while they vegetate. Netflix has always fit that niche a lot more than it's fit the "deep connection with prestige show" niche.
  - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
    Ok well I went through a period of intense depression a while back and then I guess I wanted things to vegetate in front of, but normally if I have had a hard day at work I want something that I can still think about and something that won't be renewed seems like something that thinking about isn't worth the time.
- dorfsmay 7y ago
  I'm the opposit. What can be so detailed that it needs more than a 90 mins film? Some super complicated thing where every detail count and that lasted several decades in real life? Ok, make it one season, and let say 5 or 6 episodes max. What in the world could be so intersting that it needs to be several season? By the time you're done you could have done a PhD and know absolutely everything about a particular subject!
adjkant 7y ago
> Cindy Holland, Netflix’s VP of content, said in 2019 that critical acclaim is important, “but we’re really about trying to stretch our investment dollars as far as we can and make good on our investors’ money — it’s theirs, not ours.” This is a huge red flag signal to me. A VP of content should be focused on the quality of shows and the editorial philosophy of a platform. That's not to say that Netflix shouldn't care about money, but that pressure should not be felt so strongly in that specific department IMO. While some cancellations make sense (Sense8, as much as I love it, the budget was a real reason), others are completely nonsensical (The OA, Tuca and Bertie, Santa Clarita Diet to name a few). It really is a shame that Netflix simply doesn't seem to have a philosophy anymore. They make good content still, but only because they do enough things that not everything can be a miss. I think we all know we are exiting the golden era of streaming, but I think when we look back, Netflix straying from its original principles may be seen as a notable part of that downfall. The sudden growth of separated streaming services was probably unavoidable, but I can't help but wonder that if Netflix stuck to its philosophy, the quality of the service may have kept other potential competitors around longer.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > A VP of content should be focused on the quality of shows The sole purpose of Netflix is to make money. That’s all it’s there for. So that the owners (which includes thousands of normal working class employees) can buy food for their families. Everyone should be focused on that goal, surely?
  - adjkant 7y ago
    > The sole purpose of Netflix is to make money. No, that's the capitalist investors view. The problem is that Netflix now sees it as theirs. I'd bet quite a good sum of money that was not the goal when it started. I'd be surprised if that was the goal in 2010-2015 even. > So that the owners (which includes thousands of normal working class employees) can buy food for their families. If that were true, they would not be trying so hard to turn these excess profits. With how Netflix pays I don't think you can really call their employees "normal working class" either. Netflix is a classic case of greed and profit corrupting art. In some ways inevitable, but it's sad to see there's not even an internal tension between finance and content. That should be a battle that is waged daily in order to balance multiple purposes: both making money to support its employees and investors, and the art of shows and movies, among others.
lihaciudaniel 7y ago
This was probably the best show that I've ever watched.
MobileVet 7y ago
For those griping about quality... Emmy wins and nominations would refute your personal bias. Content doesn’t appeal to everyone but critics have been very impressed with some of the content on Netflix. https://deadline.com/2019/09/2019-emmys-wins-network-shows-scorecards-1202742071/ https://deadline.com/2019/09/2019-emmys-wins-network-shows-s...
- casefields 7y ago
  Award shows are merely popularity contests after a certain threshold of quality is met. Source: the Emmy and NAACP award sitting on my shelf.
Lammy 7y ago
It's super weird that there isn't a single result when I Ctrl+F this page for the word "union". Bojack's animators unionized, and four months later their show was canceled. A story in two headlines: https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/bojack-horsemans-animators-have-voted-to-unionize.html https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/bojack-horsemans-animators-h... https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/raphael-bob-waksberg-bojack-horseman-ending-interview.html https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/raphael-bob-waksberg-bojack-...
Mountain_Skies 7y ago
AMC on the other hand seems to take the opposite approach, at times stretching a series out for seasons after it has run out of energy and material. Wonder if the difference in the approaches is due to differences in the subscription versus advertising revenue models.

88 points by smacktoward 7y ago

Among other reasons I canceled my subscription last night, Netflix's current data-driven culture is driving: • Good shows to shut down, • Terrible, Awful, No Good, Very Bad concepts ("The Goop Lab") to be approved—actually, this was the named reason for why I canceled; I actually wrote "The Goop Lab" in the Other cancellation box. https://globalnews.ca/news/6488433/goop-uk-health-warning-gwyneth-paltrow/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6488433/goop-uk-health-warning-gw... • Blockbusters to lapse, • Fillers to be licensed. It's just not worth the 15.99/mo I've been paying them anymore, which is unfortunate. Five years ago, originals had serious promise.

zyang 7y ago
I was about to close my account and realized there was a lower tier, $8/mon.
- eganist 7y ago
  You're not wrong, but in standard def for one device, it doesn't work with my use case (laptop/tablet). Works on phones/smaller screens for sure.

tpmx 7y ago

I would have shut down my Netflix subscription two months ago, but since I'm sharing it with my 70+ mom who's still enjoying it for some reason, I'm keeping it going for now. Otherwise, for me (~40 yo male in Sweden), Netflix isn't very interesting at all. I think its data-driven culture is awesome at creating shows that are fascinating to its California-based execs. Also: I wish they'd tone down the politics. I'm with Bill Burr on this: Not every single fxxing thing has to be about politics. We get it. We're onboard. We don't need to be preached at in every singly fxxking show though. Remember, we're paying for a service here. We expect being entertained. Not getting preached at.

eganist 7y ago
You have the power.
- tpmx 7y ago
  This isn't a complaint.
  - cambalache 7y ago
    This happens all the time here and to be honest, HN is one of the best sites regarding censorship. It is pretty scary how in the last 5 or so years the policing of online discourse has ramped up and it is accelerating. I know, I know if you don't like it, spin up your own mastodon instance. If you don't want to seat back on the bus, create your own bus service and so on.
  - ravenstine 7y ago
    The voting system on HN is a joke. To some degree it does work for an audience of intellectuals, but it wouldn't work at all with a general audience. Everyone just downvotes what offends their sensibilities, but because messages get greyed out, moved down the page, and eventually hidden with relatively few downvotes, they're effectively saying "nobody should hear your opinion", no matter how civil your language. Just take the downvotes as a badge of pride. I expect this very comment to get downvoted and those same voters won't even bother to tell me why I'm wrong.
    - jimktrains2 7y ago
      I've always felt that as a general rule across all platforms, downvotes should be required to come with a hand typed, not selected from a drop-down, comment of at least 50 characters. Sure, I could just hold down 'r' and be done with it, but I feel like the mods could easily clean that up.
      - dang 7y ago
        Comments about downvotes are among the lowest-quality comments that get posted here. Requiring more of them would be a big mistake. If a user has something meaningful to say about how they disagree with another comment, they already can—and do—reply. If they don't have anything substantial to say, and downvoting prevents them from saying it, that's a feature not a bug. It's tempting to imagine that placing hurdles in front of users could solve the quality problem, but IMO that's a fantasy. There are no easy ways to do that and no technical fixes for it.

pkorzeniewski 7y ago

I had Netflix for a brief moment and all their original series felt really dull, I couldn't find one that would hook me for longer than several episodes, I was almost forcing myself to watch them - I much prefer old stuff, maybe not so stunning visually, but with much more substance, that's why I switched to HBO GO.

PopeDotNinja 7y ago
Funny. I can't stand most of the stuff on HBO. I had it for a few months to watch GoT, but I couldn't find anything else I wanted to watch. Although recently Watchmen was really good. I love a ton of stuff from Netflix: Ozark, Unbelievable, Witcher, Lost In Space, Altered Carbon, and a lot more stuff I can't think of at the moment.
- crocodiletears 7y ago
  If you have a Prime subscription, you might appreciate HBO's Rome. But I do agree that their catalogue can be pretty hit or miss.

frank086 7y ago

I moved back to DVD.com, 9.99 for one disc at a time and you can get Blurays (with 7.1 sound, something no one seems to stream) of the stuff Netflix can't stream because it went to Disney+, Hulu, etc. They also still have a reasonably priced 3 disc program if you trend more toward TV binge watching than movies. Plus add in MakeMKV and Plex and there is a nice little ecosystem. Not as convenient as the golden age of Netflix, but now that everyone wants their own streaming service, I'd rather just cycle through a couple discs a week than do the whole lets get Disney+ for the Mandalorian, okay bingd watched that now lets get Netflix for Witcher, oh now Season 2 of the Mandalorian is out, back to Disney, oh look HBO has a new thing, etc.

eganist 7y ago
Before anyone says anything: DVD.com is owned by Netflix. And honestly, if you're hooked on the availability of content and don't want to ditch the Netflix pipeline completely, switching to DVD.com probably makes sense. The revenue shift from Netflix to DVD.com will have the same net impact on spending decisions.
- frank086 7y ago
  Yeah, they even have a bundle deal to have DVDs and some level of streaming. It is interesting because at one point Netflix was trying to sell of the disc shipping business because physical media was dead and the whole service felt neglected. Now that mailing you a disc is the only way they can get you certain content, the service is back closer to the level it was when they were killing Blockbuster.
Hamuko 7y ago
>but now that everyone wants their own streaming service Well, everyone wants their own subscription service, whether it be video-on-demand or a calendar app.
- theklr 7y ago
  I don’t think that everyone “wants” their own subscription service, it’s that it’s become the only sustainable business model to meet the demands of operating.

Guest0918231 7y ago

Sometimes I wonder why Netflix doesn't produce more content with small creators. What I'm imagining... 1. Produce some fitness content. Yoga, stretching, meditation, calisthenics, etc. I get the impression there are countless talented fitness trainers that would love to produce regular content while being cheap to hire. Look at Peloton, they charge $40/mo to live stream classes after people spend thousands on a bike. I imagine a lot of people would watch live or prerecorded fitness classes on Netflix, become loyal to the trainers and stay subscribed for their content. 2. Hire some YouTubers. I spend more time on YouTube than Netflix. Lots of great comedy, educational, travel, and tech content there. Most of them are also struggling for money and would jump on an exclusive Netflix partnership for a fraction of what Netflix pays for other content. 3. Daily news. Find a few entertaining personalities and journalists that can report on the daily news. Why can't I switch on Netflix today to get the latest on coronavirus? Lastly... let me search the content. Why can't I just browse comedy movies released in the last few years, or horror movies sorted by release date? I find Netflix such a terrible and frustrating interface and I have to scroll past the same movie or series a dozen times as I go through the content. I've had Netflix for years, and I still feel like I have no idea what is actually on there because it's so annoying to browse. I think I'll likely cancel next year.

dudus 7y ago
News specifically would be fantastic. I currently struggle to find good news sources. The sites I used to go to now all lock up after X articles and I'm not willing to sign up for every single one of them while there's not one that deliver all the news I want. I used to have youtubeTV just for the news channels, but ended up cancelling because I felt I was way overpaying since sports HAD to be baked in.
baddox 7y ago
I’m not sure why any popular YouTuber would go to Netflix. I doubt it could ever make financial sense. The distribution must be so much lower on Netflix. I would be worried if any of my favorite YouTubers went to Netflix because I would be afraid that’s where their content would go to die. Netflix discovery is absolutely terrible.

MobileVet 7y ago

Netflix is definitely pursuing the quantity over quality strategy, which doesn’t appeal to me. That said, there are some really strong offerings hidden in the noise. The shift to originals over licensed is hurting the average quality level... but it definitely makes sense as a long term play. It still makes sense for me and I am happy support the many gambles they take with content... even if most are lackluster.

dorfsmay 7y ago
I feel the world is splitting in two: One half watching YouTube at 1.5 speed and skipping the first Wadsworth constant minutes of it, reading Wikipedia and looking for more ways to get directly at the essence of things. The other half who wants to pay a fixed monthly price for somebody (Netflix today) to keep them "entertained" for hours while filling up their non-working hours.
- RandomGuyDTB 7y ago
  It's always been like that, since when television was mostly free and you watched the same four channels every day unless you preferred the library because you could browse encyclopediae and find one or two specialized books about a topic you were interested in. The 'Net just made us more aware of the latter category.
  - dorfsmay 7y ago
    The big difference is that Netflix partly replace cinemas for some people but they are adding less and less movies and more and more series.
- MobileVet 7y ago
  Are you not entertained!
  - MobileVet 7y ago
    Down voting a movie reference in a thread about Netflix... rough day.

RHSeeger 7y ago

I feel like the odd man out, with everyone shitting on Netflix and it's original content. I love my Netflix subscription. There's tons for my (young) daughter to watch. There's tons for my wife and I to watch (Sabrina, Daybreak, Magicions, Badlands). There's tons for me to watch without my wife (mostly anime, etc). Sure, some of the shows are cheesy, but some aren't, and I like the mix. They don't have every movie I want to see, but they're also not my only source for entertainment. As one source of multiple, I think they're great. I can't think of any service that would be good for a single source of entertainment. I honestly just don't understand the hate.

7thaccount 7y ago
The Magicians is such an amazing show. Modern gritty, but awesomely fun adult fantasy series. It is one of a few recent shows from ScyFy that they got right (Magicians, The Expanse, Killjoys)...etc.
- ianai 7y ago
  Yep, Magicians made a connection with me that few shows have in a long time. There’s just something so human about every season, but still out there and fun/funny. I hope if they end this batch of storylines that they start up a new sequel to the show. But back on topic, Magicians isn’t a Netflix show. But they’d be smart to purchase it from SyFy if that were to become possible.
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    I watched the first couple seasons of it on Netflix. I only figured out it wasn't a Netflix show after that. Same thing happened with The Good Place (which is amazing).
    - ianai 7y ago
      I did the same for the good place. Good point. Netflix can and does act as a springboard to that kind of stuff - some could miss out on the magicians or the good place and other such shows if they didn’t find them first on Netflix.

ravenstine 7y ago

This is isn't just about Netflix, though I'm sure there were some people who saw Netflix as a bastion for good TV. At this point, entertainment is all about quantity of mediocrity and CGI spectacle. They have the formula to keep most people watching while putting in the least amount of effort in terms of storytelling. If you can psychoanalyze your audience, you can keep them hooked and feed them whatever messages you want. All Netflix needed was to set up people's expectations and then gradually reduce their excellence so the audience continues to watch despite the mediocre quality. If more people besides those on HN cancel their Netflix subscriptions, that will be a good thing because maybe they'll stop "binge watching" with pride and start doing other things with their time. I'm pessimistic on both fronts because I don't think the average person is going to cancel their Netflix, and even if they did I think they'll continue to vegetate while watching Amazon Prime, Disney+, Hulu, CBS All Access, etc.

mathattack 7y ago

We barely watch it but even if we see one movie a month it’s much cheaper than the theater. Factor in concessions and it’s a steal.

aguyfromnb 7y ago

I'm actually surprised that anyone thought that Netflix would ever end up as anything but a "TV Network", albeit with a nice interface. The business model is what it is. All the hype, the stratospheric share price, the prognostications of "disruption" (which they certainly did) don't change the fact that it's all about the content. And in that sense, Netflix doesn't really have any advantages. Creators will go where the pay is best, which leaves less for the distributor; winner's curse and all that.

segmondy 7y ago
Netflix is bigger than any TV Network, the only thing missing is live shows but not all TV networks carry live shows. If Netflix decided to push content instead of allowing it to be pulled, they have enough content to have 50+ channels.

SirensOfTitan 7y ago

I had hoped Netflix would usher in another golden age of film: throwing small budgets at innovative content creators (like Binging with Babish), up-and-coming auteurs (think like early 80s David Lynch). That didn’t happen. The data driven approach regresses content to the mean and I worry stifles creativity. Netflix doesn’t seem to get that I’m not going to invest my time in a show that likely won’t get a second season, and if it doe almost certainly never a third. I find it mildly heartbreaking when I get invested in characters just enough and then I never get to see their archs finished. I’m still so sad they canceled The OA.

wutbrodo 7y ago
> Netflix doesn’t seem to get that I’m not going to invest my time in a show that likely won’t get a second season, and if it doe almost certainly never a third. Do you think that they don't get this, or that it's not true for most of their audience and thus not relevant? Ie, they don't need to cater to your specific individual preference unless it's shared relatively widely, and I'm not convinced that it is. A lot of people just watch TV to have something "good enough" on while they vegetate. Netflix has always fit that niche a lot more than it's fit the "deep connection with prestige show" niche.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  Ok well I went through a period of intense depression a while back and then I guess I wanted things to vegetate in front of, but normally if I have had a hard day at work I want something that I can still think about and something that won't be renewed seems like something that thinking about isn't worth the time.
dorfsmay 7y ago
I'm the opposit. What can be so detailed that it needs more than a 90 mins film? Some super complicated thing where every detail count and that lasted several decades in real life? Ok, make it one season, and let say 5 or 6 episodes max. What in the world could be so intersting that it needs to be several season? By the time you're done you could have done a PhD and know absolutely everything about a particular subject!

adjkant 7y ago

> Cindy Holland, Netflix’s VP of content, said in 2019 that critical acclaim is important, “but we’re really about trying to stretch our investment dollars as far as we can and make good on our investors’ money — it’s theirs, not ours.” This is a huge red flag signal to me. A VP of content should be focused on the quality of shows and the editorial philosophy of a platform. That's not to say that Netflix shouldn't care about money, but that pressure should not be felt so strongly in that specific department IMO. While some cancellations make sense (Sense8, as much as I love it, the budget was a real reason), others are completely nonsensical (The OA, Tuca and Bertie, Santa Clarita Diet to name a few). It really is a shame that Netflix simply doesn't seem to have a philosophy anymore. They make good content still, but only because they do enough things that not everything can be a miss. I think we all know we are exiting the golden era of streaming, but I think when we look back, Netflix straying from its original principles may be seen as a notable part of that downfall. The sudden growth of separated streaming services was probably unavoidable, but I can't help but wonder that if Netflix stuck to its philosophy, the quality of the service may have kept other potential competitors around longer.

chrisseaton 7y ago
> A VP of content should be focused on the quality of shows The sole purpose of Netflix is to make money. That’s all it’s there for. So that the owners (which includes thousands of normal working class employees) can buy food for their families. Everyone should be focused on that goal, surely?
- adjkant 7y ago
  > The sole purpose of Netflix is to make money. No, that's the capitalist investors view. The problem is that Netflix now sees it as theirs. I'd bet quite a good sum of money that was not the goal when it started. I'd be surprised if that was the goal in 2010-2015 even. > So that the owners (which includes thousands of normal working class employees) can buy food for their families. If that were true, they would not be trying so hard to turn these excess profits. With how Netflix pays I don't think you can really call their employees "normal working class" either. Netflix is a classic case of greed and profit corrupting art. In some ways inevitable, but it's sad to see there's not even an internal tension between finance and content. That should be a battle that is waged daily in order to balance multiple purposes: both making money to support its employees and investors, and the art of shows and movies, among others.

lihaciudaniel 7y ago

This was probably the best show that I've ever watched.

MobileVet 7y ago

For those griping about quality... Emmy wins and nominations would refute your personal bias. Content doesn’t appeal to everyone but critics have been very impressed with some of the content on Netflix. https://deadline.com/2019/09/2019-emmys-wins-network-shows-scorecards-1202742071/ https://deadline.com/2019/09/2019-emmys-wins-network-shows-s...

casefields 7y ago
Award shows are merely popularity contests after a certain threshold of quality is met. Source: the Emmy and NAACP award sitting on my shelf.

Lammy 7y ago

It's super weird that there isn't a single result when I Ctrl+F this page for the word "union". Bojack's animators unionized, and four months later their show was canceled. A story in two headlines: https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/bojack-horsemans-animators-have-voted-to-unionize.html https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/bojack-horsemans-animators-h... https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/raphael-bob-waksberg-bojack-horseman-ending-interview.html https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/raphael-bob-waksberg-bojack-...

Mountain_Skies 7y ago

AMC on the other hand seems to take the opposite approach, at times stretching a series out for seasons after it has run out of energy and material. Wonder if the difference in the approaches is due to differences in the subscription versus advertising revenue models.