8 ms·

NomadBSD

122 points by 1MachineElf 7y ago

ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
> The GPT layout has been changed to MBR. This prevents problems with Lenovo systems that refuse to boot from GPT if "lenovofix" is not set, and systems that hang on boot if "lenovofix" is set. How do I words?
- joshAg 7y ago
  simple. if you words, hang on do. if you don't words, refuse to do.
- eikenberry 7y ago
  What are they even talking about? They talk about this "lenovofix" like we should have some clue what it is.
  - JdeBP 7y ago
    It's an attribute on an EFI partition, according to the user manual. * https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=gpart&sektion=8#ATTRIBUTES https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=gpart&sektion=8#AT...
- h2odragon 7y ago
  seems perfectly clear to me; some lenovo's dont like to boot from GPT, and the workaround isn't functional on all systems, so using the older Master Boot Record seems a reasonable way of avoiding the problem.
wildduck 7y ago
What's window manager they are using? It must be light weight to run on just on 1G of RAM.
- Koshkin 7y ago
  To be fair, WMs do not use much RAM, it’s DEs that do.
  - wildduck 7y ago
    What is the distinction between DEs and WMs?
    - cipherboy 7y ago
      A DE is a desktop environment and includes niceties like text editors, settings applications, music playered, and things that make an ecosystem. Gnome and KDE are the two most popular DEs. WM is a window manager and just handles well, window management. Sometimes that included decoration and styling, usually it includes moving and closing and minimizing them. Think, Mutter, Sway, or fvwm. A WM is a subset of a DE.
    - cat199 7y ago
      wm just manages windows, DE is usually this + a full application suite e.g. preferences UI, File Browser, web browser, photo viewer, etc, etc, etc and some kind of 'component' mechanism so that those pieces can interoperate better (e.g. file browser reads from some settings application to determine what photo app to open things with)
    - Koshkin 7y ago
      A DE manages user’s view of applications and, in general, the overall user experience (usually in the GUI setting); it also provides an API for applications to seamlessly fit that experience. Window management is but a small part of this.
- e12e 7y ago
  Oh wow, now I feel old. I remember compiling and running Java course work on a laptop with 8MB of RAM. The display was monochrome, and the compiler literally took ten minutes to spin up (as go get, and drink a cup of coffee before it's done - probably swapping like mad). But it worked well enough with x11 and fvwm. I see i was on a supercharged "pro" workstation with that much ram, though: http://www.fvwm.org/history/ http://www.fvwm.org/history/ > There were two or three reasons for starting FVWM and RXVT. First, I had a need 33 MHZ 486 laptop PC with only 4 MB of RAM, and I thought linux and X11 were way better than the windows versions of the day. X11 with TWM and xterm would run on my PC, but just barely.
arexxbifs 7y ago
This is great, now I can check if my cheap fringe laptop is usable with BSD. Been itching to switch for a while, but haven’t dared.
- cat199 7y ago
  The major BSD derived operating systems all have 'live' boot media for installs - however this usually means CLI. That said, this should be enough to verify most HW compatibility. I say this because this is FreeBSD based, so you're not going to find out about OpenBSD or NetBSD compatibility this way.
- 1MachineElf 7y ago
  I'm excited too. Up until now, I've been relying on mfsBSD for this - and it only solves the problem for server-like platforms with nothing but the bare CLI. It's still great for SuperMicro's virtual CD-ROM over IPMI.
antipax 7y ago
This is the year of BSD on the desktop. (sorry, had to)
winrid 7y ago
Oooo, I kind of want to get that $200 Pinebook to play with this on. I have a nostalgia for posix like systems on older hardware, I remember when my daily was Ubuntu on a PIII.
- 1MachineElf 7y ago
  I would love to boot something like this on a Pinebook. Unfortunately, the releases are only for amd64 and Apple-specific amd64 hardware. For the Pinebook, maybe a GitHub issue for aarch64 is a good place to start.
uncle_j 7y ago
This is pretty much exactly what I wanted in an OS. Decent lite-weight desktop BSD with a Graphical installer that isn't TrueOS (I don't like it).
- g82918 7y ago
  Why is the graphical installer important to you? Is it to check the GPU is supported? You can usually install a DE after the initial install of the OS easily, and FreeBSD and OpenBSD at least have very nice user friendly installers.
  - uncle_j 7y ago
    Yes I know. I can install it fine. Do I particularly want to use a text based installer than looks like something from the 80s? Nope. I have an Amiga 1200 on my desk and that has a better installer than most BSDs. This is essentially a dead OS that fits on 5 floppy disks has a proper graphical installer and BSD doesn't. Icaros (Amiga clone OS) has a better installer than most BSDs. Like it or not Windows with its spyware is the only Desktop OS that isn't tied to expensive hardware or has the problems of Linux (which will get worse as things become more corporate) and has decent software and hardware support i.e. my Nvidia card is supported (No Radeon cards aren't an option mainly because they tend to be garbage IMO and every card I've owned that been a Radeon has had problems). Also Windows is pretty stable for the most part even with the forced updates and annoyances of having to turn all the garbage off. > You can usually install a DE after the initial install of the OS easily, and FreeBSD and OpenBSD at least have very nice user friendly installers. The partitioning for OpenBSD the last time I bothered looking at it was asking me to work out cylinders and all sorts of other crap. When I was at uni and had free time I didn't mind getting the calculator out and working it all out, now I just do A for auto partition and hope it is okay (which isn't good). I have a ISO somewhere where I scripted everything up and then one of the released broke it and I just gave up and stuck CentOS on the machine and only use OpenBSD now in VMs for hosting.
k_sze 7y ago
FuryBSD also made it to the HN frontpage yesterday. Both FuryBSD and NomadBSD are based on FreeBSD. Is FreeBSD just generally a better desktop OS than OpenBSD? I've never used any *BSD in my life, so I honestly don't know.
- 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
  I'd say that it largely depends on what you consider table stakes for "desktop" these days. OpenBSD has a surprisingly credible and coherent desktop story as far as it goes, though at this point you'll probably be disappointed if you expect anything resembling cutting-edge GPU or Wi-Fi support (they're not sitting still on those fronts, it's just a lot of work to keep up). Gaming in general will be a challenge outside of emulators and other open-source runtimes (ScummVM, fnaify, LWJGL, Ren'Py, etc.).
  - anthk 7y ago
    Most wireless devices will work fine under OpenBSD, and so will do Intel/AMD cards. No Nvidia.
    - 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
      I think I overstated the gap in GPU support. I was under the impression that the amdgpu driver was still not in the default kernel (which in OpenBSD implies not really being supported), but it looks like they added it for 6.6. It's reportedly from Linux 4.19, which is reasonably recent. This should support the RX 500 series, which is the sort of thing that one might actually pick up at Best Buy today.
      - anthk 7y ago
        For graphics and desktop related it's better to run -current. Sometimes it may break inbetween, but it's solved fast over getting a new snapshot and upgrading the packages. OFC if you are like me being paranoid over stability, get -release.
- 7y ago
g82918 7y ago
It is a bit interesting for the future of the product that most of the comments aren't about the actual functionality that this BSD provides. The cool thing here is that you can plug it into any computer like TAILS or a few other Linux distros and use it like your own computer. Most comments seem to focus on the unconventionality of BSD's. A BSD in general is like a linux distro in that they package a kernel and userland together, usually with a package manager or a port system. The great advantage of a BSD is that usually the kernel-libc interface is designed better. For instance FreeBSD used to have a much faster writev implementation compared with Linux(from personal experience and the Advanced Unix Programming Book's test). Edit: I tried using a \star character before BSD which apparently is italics in this editor.
- musicale 7y ago
  The main differentiating feature vs. (free,net,open,whatever)BSD seems to be that it boots from a pluggable external device like a USB flash drive and doesn't perturb the system it's booting on. Seems like something that should just be added to FreeBSD.
  - g82918 7y ago
    So adding that is hard. I mentioned that a bit by alluding to TAILS, storage on USB is interesting since most users just yank it at some point. FSCK and making sure writes complete in nontrivial. Feature detection on boot is interesting as well. Those two points are not things you regularly want. I would prefer my modules compiled into the kernel in Linux terminology.
  - anthk 7y ago
    OpenBSD has that with Fuguita.
  - 1MachineElf 7y ago
    FreeBSD has that with mfsBSD, but it's extremely minimal compared to this NomadBSD project, albeit still quite useful.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

122 points by 1MachineElf 7y ago

> The GPT layout has been changed to MBR. This prevents problems with Lenovo systems that refuse to boot from GPT if "lenovofix" is not set, and systems that hang on boot if "lenovofix" is set. How do I words?

joshAg 7y ago
simple. if you words, hang on do. if you don't words, refuse to do.
eikenberry 7y ago
What are they even talking about? They talk about this "lenovofix" like we should have some clue what it is.
- JdeBP 7y ago
  It's an attribute on an EFI partition, according to the user manual. * https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=gpart&sektion=8#ATTRIBUTES https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=gpart&sektion=8#AT...
h2odragon 7y ago
seems perfectly clear to me; some lenovo's dont like to boot from GPT, and the workaround isn't functional on all systems, so using the older Master Boot Record seems a reasonable way of avoiding the problem.

wildduck 7y ago

What's window manager they are using? It must be light weight to run on just on 1G of RAM.

Koshkin 7y ago
To be fair, WMs do not use much RAM, it’s DEs that do.
- wildduck 7y ago
  What is the distinction between DEs and WMs?
  - cipherboy 7y ago
    A DE is a desktop environment and includes niceties like text editors, settings applications, music playered, and things that make an ecosystem. Gnome and KDE are the two most popular DEs. WM is a window manager and just handles well, window management. Sometimes that included decoration and styling, usually it includes moving and closing and minimizing them. Think, Mutter, Sway, or fvwm. A WM is a subset of a DE.
  - cat199 7y ago
    wm just manages windows, DE is usually this + a full application suite e.g. preferences UI, File Browser, web browser, photo viewer, etc, etc, etc and some kind of 'component' mechanism so that those pieces can interoperate better (e.g. file browser reads from some settings application to determine what photo app to open things with)
  - Koshkin 7y ago
    A DE manages user’s view of applications and, in general, the overall user experience (usually in the GUI setting); it also provides an API for applications to seamlessly fit that experience. Window management is but a small part of this.
e12e 7y ago
Oh wow, now I feel old. I remember compiling and running Java course work on a laptop with 8MB of RAM. The display was monochrome, and the compiler literally took ten minutes to spin up (as go get, and drink a cup of coffee before it's done - probably swapping like mad). But it worked well enough with x11 and fvwm. I see i was on a supercharged "pro" workstation with that much ram, though: http://www.fvwm.org/history/ http://www.fvwm.org/history/ > There were two or three reasons for starting FVWM and RXVT. First, I had a need 33 MHZ 486 laptop PC with only 4 MB of RAM, and I thought linux and X11 were way better than the windows versions of the day. X11 with TWM and xterm would run on my PC, but just barely.

arexxbifs 7y ago

This is great, now I can check if my cheap fringe laptop is usable with BSD. Been itching to switch for a while, but haven’t dared.

cat199 7y ago
The major BSD derived operating systems all have 'live' boot media for installs - however this usually means CLI. That said, this should be enough to verify most HW compatibility. I say this because this is FreeBSD based, so you're not going to find out about OpenBSD or NetBSD compatibility this way.
1MachineElf 7y ago
I'm excited too. Up until now, I've been relying on mfsBSD for this - and it only solves the problem for server-like platforms with nothing but the bare CLI. It's still great for SuperMicro's virtual CD-ROM over IPMI.

antipax 7y ago

This is the year of BSD on the desktop. (sorry, had to)

winrid 7y ago

Oooo, I kind of want to get that $200 Pinebook to play with this on. I have a nostalgia for posix like systems on older hardware, I remember when my daily was Ubuntu on a PIII.

1MachineElf 7y ago
I would love to boot something like this on a Pinebook. Unfortunately, the releases are only for amd64 and Apple-specific amd64 hardware. For the Pinebook, maybe a GitHub issue for aarch64 is a good place to start.

uncle_j 7y ago

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted in an OS. Decent lite-weight desktop BSD with a Graphical installer that isn't TrueOS (I don't like it).

g82918 7y ago
Why is the graphical installer important to you? Is it to check the GPU is supported? You can usually install a DE after the initial install of the OS easily, and FreeBSD and OpenBSD at least have very nice user friendly installers.
- uncle_j 7y ago
  Yes I know. I can install it fine. Do I particularly want to use a text based installer than looks like something from the 80s? Nope. I have an Amiga 1200 on my desk and that has a better installer than most BSDs. This is essentially a dead OS that fits on 5 floppy disks has a proper graphical installer and BSD doesn't. Icaros (Amiga clone OS) has a better installer than most BSDs. Like it or not Windows with its spyware is the only Desktop OS that isn't tied to expensive hardware or has the problems of Linux (which will get worse as things become more corporate) and has decent software and hardware support i.e. my Nvidia card is supported (No Radeon cards aren't an option mainly because they tend to be garbage IMO and every card I've owned that been a Radeon has had problems). Also Windows is pretty stable for the most part even with the forced updates and annoyances of having to turn all the garbage off. > You can usually install a DE after the initial install of the OS easily, and FreeBSD and OpenBSD at least have very nice user friendly installers. The partitioning for OpenBSD the last time I bothered looking at it was asking me to work out cylinders and all sorts of other crap. When I was at uni and had free time I didn't mind getting the calculator out and working it all out, now I just do A for auto partition and hope it is okay (which isn't good). I have a ISO somewhere where I scripted everything up and then one of the released broke it and I just gave up and stuck CentOS on the machine and only use OpenBSD now in VMs for hosting.

k_sze 7y ago

FuryBSD also made it to the HN frontpage yesterday. Both FuryBSD and NomadBSD are based on FreeBSD. Is FreeBSD just generally a better desktop OS than OpenBSD? I've never used any *BSD in my life, so I honestly don't know.

0xcde4c3db 7y ago
I'd say that it largely depends on what you consider table stakes for "desktop" these days. OpenBSD has a surprisingly credible and coherent desktop story as far as it goes, though at this point you'll probably be disappointed if you expect anything resembling cutting-edge GPU or Wi-Fi support (they're not sitting still on those fronts, it's just a lot of work to keep up). Gaming in general will be a challenge outside of emulators and other open-source runtimes (ScummVM, fnaify, LWJGL, Ren'Py, etc.).
- anthk 7y ago
  Most wireless devices will work fine under OpenBSD, and so will do Intel/AMD cards. No Nvidia.
  - 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
    I think I overstated the gap in GPU support. I was under the impression that the amdgpu driver was still not in the default kernel (which in OpenBSD implies not really being supported), but it looks like they added it for 6.6. It's reportedly from Linux 4.19, which is reasonably recent. This should support the RX 500 series, which is the sort of thing that one might actually pick up at Best Buy today.
    - anthk 7y ago
      For graphics and desktop related it's better to run -current. Sometimes it may break inbetween, but it's solved fast over getting a new snapshot and upgrading the packages. OFC if you are like me being paranoid over stability, get -release.
7y ago

g82918 7y ago

It is a bit interesting for the future of the product that most of the comments aren't about the actual functionality that this BSD provides. The cool thing here is that you can plug it into any computer like TAILS or a few other Linux distros and use it like your own computer. Most comments seem to focus on the unconventionality of BSD's. A BSD in general is like a linux distro in that they package a kernel and userland together, usually with a package manager or a port system. The great advantage of a BSD is that usually the kernel-libc interface is designed better. For instance FreeBSD used to have a much faster writev implementation compared with Linux(from personal experience and the Advanced Unix Programming Book's test). Edit: I tried using a \star character before BSD which apparently is italics in this editor.

musicale 7y ago
The main differentiating feature vs. (free,net,open,whatever)BSD seems to be that it boots from a pluggable external device like a USB flash drive and doesn't perturb the system it's booting on. Seems like something that should just be added to FreeBSD.
- g82918 7y ago
  So adding that is hard. I mentioned that a bit by alluding to TAILS, storage on USB is interesting since most users just yank it at some point. FSCK and making sure writes complete in nontrivial. Feature detection on boot is interesting as well. Those two points are not things you regularly want. I would prefer my modules compiled into the kernel in Linux terminology.
- anthk 7y ago
  OpenBSD has that with Fuguita.
- 1MachineElf 7y ago
  FreeBSD has that with mfsBSD, but it's extremely minimal compared to this NomadBSD project, albeit still quite useful.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]