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Apple may have to abandon Lightning connector cable

82 points by tartoran 7y ago

voisin 7y ago
Just switch to wireless Qi charging and eliminate cords altogether.
- filoleg 7y ago
  I would be all for it, as long as there was some strong and small magnetic Qi charger that allows you to charge while using the phone at the same time as you hold it in one hand. Maybe it already exists, in which case, great, I am all for it already.
dreamcompiler 7y ago
Good. Wireless Qi charging is too slow, and Apple is still being a dongle diva by constantly inventing its own special connectors.
- spaginal 7y ago
  Then stop buying Apple products.
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    Oh I have. And I had been buying them in large quantities since 1984. But the astonishingly low quality of Apple's hardware and software over the last 5 years has made me stop.
- evilduck 7y ago
  Constantly? Like, twice in twenty years?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    I stand by my comment. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCDDwR2x9k0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCDDwR2x9k0
    - evilduck 7y ago
      So besides lightning and the 40 pin connection, what else in that video is a proprietary Apple connector?
- pwinnski 7y ago
  Apple - 2003: 30-pin connector - 2012: Lightning connector USB - 1998: A/B - 2000: Mini-A/B - 2007: Micro-A/B - (Skipping some that were not used for phones) - 2014: C
SllX 7y ago
Enforcing a mandatory switch to USB-C is moot with Qi charging kicking around and widely supported.
siquick 7y ago
This is a fantastic piece of legislation.
kbrwn 7y ago
To everyone that thinks no ports, Qi only iPhones are the future. What if you want to use your phone while it chargers? Charge your phone in the car? I think we are another 10 years at least from having a device that could last long enough off a single charge to warrant occasionally leaving it on a pad over night as the main charging method.
- zippergz 7y ago
  I would not be a fan of not having a charging port, but I Qi charge my phone in the car every day. It's fine. One of my cars has it built-in to the armrest, and in another I have a third-party mount with an integrated Qi charger.
  - opless 7y ago
    I've almost completely moved to Qi charging my phone. Oddly it took a while for me to find an in car CD mount type, as most of them are air vent types.
- jedberg 7y ago
  My car has an option for a built in Qi charger. It’s in the spot you normally put your phone anyway. That being said, how would you service a portless phone? There would be no more DFU mode.
  - mcgoo 7y ago
    It seems like it’s essential right now at least. The Apple Watch has a hidden lightning port that I have never even seen.
    - jedberg 7y ago
      You’ve never seen it because it doesn’t exist. :) It was an unsubstantiated rumor.
  - danaris 7y ago
    And how would you activate CarPlay? At the moment it's wired-only, and I'm skeptical as to whether it could be made to work over Bluetooth in existing cars. If you bought a new car today with wired CarPlay, you might still be driving it in 5 or even 10 years, and you really wouldn't want to lose the ability to actually use CarPlay in just a year or two.
SamReidHughes 7y ago
So basically some subset of EU Parliament legislators have an opinion about something. In Apple's defense, the lightning connector and previous iPod connector both served as a charging cable and computer interface cable. So it was never the same situation as the old devoted phone chargers. And they invented them without any standard alternatives available. If this passes, the next time you think about inventing an interface and start with all your products and the whole accessory market, remember the EU Parliament might legislate away your right to use it.
- ardit33 7y ago
  They are telling the industry to choose one common connector, and to standardize around it.... They are not dictating which one.... and that the one they choose has to be set in stone (i.e. never change) De facto it is going to probably be USB-C, and I think it is a good move.... If years down the road, there is a new connector called USB-D (or whatever it is called), they can switch to it.... Also, this is for charging, and not data..., so it shouldn't hamper adoption of new data transport protocols.
  - wvenable 7y ago
    But if it's law to use the standard connector than how do you use a different (lets say newer) connection if the law says to use the standard connector. There's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Somebody is going to have to build a device with a connector that isn't standard at some point to make progress.
    - Xixi 7y ago
      It only means that device makers will have to agree on a new standard before they can drop the previous one. I agree that it will slow down things, but there is no chicken and egg problem.
      - wvenable 7y ago
        And what if they can't agree? Maybe apple make a device so thin that even USB-C won't fit and other manufacturers explicitly decide to hobble them by not supporting a thinner connector. This law would be great for anti-competitive practices. Lowest common denominator wins by default.
unlinked_dll 7y ago
Don't most folks speculate they're going to abandon it within the next generation or two? I don't want government telling me what ports I can use in my design to be frank. I get there are issues out there, but this is something that the invisible hand of the market has done a good job of culling. Remember how it used to be with every device having a wack connector? Nowadays you can count on pretty much anything being a common variant of USB.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  The EU seems to be making an environmental argument, which seems credible?
  - Turing_Machine 7y ago
    Not really. As someone pointed out above, cables wear out fast. It's not like you're going to save the planet by buying one cable that will last the rest of your life. Most people go through several cables over the lifespan of a device anyway. What it does sound like a good way to get stuck with an obsolete and substandard cable format forever, because once the One True Cable Design is mandated by government fiat, changing it to something else is going to be hell.
    - GordonS 7y ago
      I think most of the comments I've seen here about cables wearing out fast have been specifically about Apple lightning cables. In my experience, USB cables do not wear out quickly, especially if you buy braided ones. In the past 15 years or so, I think I've had a single cable fail (a cheap, crappy one that came free with something). As a consumer, it benefits me greatly to only need one connector and charger, and the environmental argument makes a lot of sense to me too.
- jyounker 7y ago
  My understanding is that this process was driven largely by pressure from the EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
delecti 7y ago
I mean, it's good to reduce disposable cables, but it's not like Apple is egregious about this. The Lightning port has been in use longer than the time between the release of USB and Mini-USB, Mini-USB and Micro-USB, Micro-USB and USB-C, or USB-C to today. The 30-pin connector was current for 9 years, even longer than Lightning has been around.
- kd913 7y ago
  This is a rather pointless stat though. None of the cables currently available are rated for 9 years and most have a ridiculously short lifespan of 1-2 years anyway. In fact it probably works against Apple as it demonstrates that the churn of innovation doesn't really exist if new advances only occur every 9 years.
  - bjtitus 7y ago
    How is it pointless? The article talks about trying to cut down on electronic waste: > The regulator is determined to cut down on electronic waste being created by obsolete cables, which it estimates generate more than 51,000 tonnes of waste per year. It's surely much less wasteful to extend the life of the cable standard than to ensure longer cable lifespans. Even if you had a cable that lasted 7 years, chances are the standard would have changed and you would be forced to replace it. You can always purchase higher quality cables that do have longer lifespans if Apple's aren't up to your quality standards. > In fact it probably works against Apple as it demonstrates that the churn of innovation doesn't really exist if new advances only occur every 9 years. I think you may have misunderstood the OP statistics. My understanding was that the industry standards have previously been churning at a higher rate than Apple's standards. So Apple's standards are often longer lived than the standard connections.
    - kd913 7y ago
      It's pointless because , the chance of a cable lasting 7 years doesn't happen. Even the phone isn't typically designed to last that long. The cases where people end up replacing their cable because of a new standard is way less frequent than the cable breaking, this has been my experience at least considering the shifting standards which you talk about. It sounds a bit like optimizing some process but ignoring what is actually the bottleneck. The problem in this case is not the standard on top, but the lifetime of the cable. If the goal is to reduce e-waste then surely it makes sense to tackle the approach from a reduce, reuse, recycle perspective in that order and focussing on the EOL for the cable. By shifting to one cable standard, you can reduce/reuse as at least other products can have better utilization as that old cable is still usable with other products. I have been less incentivised to buy new usb C cable for my phone because my switch and headphone cables still work just fine. I can't do anything with a lightning cable if my iphone dies other than to use it for apple products. Just like I can't do anything with my old ipod connectors. That is just straight e-waste. By shifting to one cable standard, we can more easily recycle the cable as there would be more manufacturers who would have the supply-chain/capabilities of recycling these chargers. Contrast that to the lightning cable which only apple and other companies with a lightning connector can handle effectively.
pg_bot 7y ago
If every new phone comes with a charging cable how much are we truly saving?
- RealStickman 7y ago
  You wouldn't need a new charger with every phone then. Why not just let users buy that separately?
DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago
While I'm fraustrated with the connector diversity in my home, I'm not at all keen to have technology design mandated. Would this forbid a certain type of product from using something better, and force new design to be via committees? I mean, it's not like Europe uses all the same mains power plugs. Well, I guess UK leaving will help there.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  I share you concern, but I wonder if a strong law could account for this? "You must use the standard, unless doing so would have a substantial impact on your product's capabilities." (I wrote this in 30 seconds, replace with more legally sound version.) I feel like Apple would have a hard time arguing the lightening is technically more capable than USB-C. But if they want to create something that is a clear improvement, they can go for it... until a standardized version catches up.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    Lightning is smaller, case closed.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Is it meaningfully smaller? Side by side, they look the same size to me.
      - SamReidHughes 7y ago
        Yes? That depends on the device, of course. I think another good argument for phones is that it's surely much easier to clean lint out of a lightning port than a USB C port. Edit: But probably, I'd guess, right now the main reason Apple has stuck to lightning to whatever extent it is is because it's more convenient for its customers. USB C is already the standard, and Apple would benefit from switching to USB C across its product line if its customers would like that more.
brandur 7y ago
Does anyone know if there's any merit to Apple's claim that USB-C isn't compatible with the iPhone's slim dimensions? (From the article: "Apple insisted that its slimmer devices would be unable to fit the then-new USB-C technology ...") Just looking at the tech specs for the iPhone 11 (lightning) [1] versus iPad Pro (USB-C) [2], the former is actually thicker at 8.3 mm compared to 5.9 mm, and yet the iPad Pro can have USB-C. Especially given that it's so prevalent in their other hardware, it almost seems like stubbornness at this point that Apple doesn't want to switch, but admittedly that doesn't pass the test of Hanlon's razor. It seems like there must be a better explanation out there somewhere for why they've desperately clung to lightning for so long (backward cable compatibility within the iPhone ecosystem? inertia in circuit/case design?). --- [1] https://www.apple.com/iphone-11/specs/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-11/specs/ [2] https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/
- koyote 7y ago
  It's bullshit as far as I can see. Most Android flagships with Type-C are either similar or thinner than the iPhone (Samsung S10 for example which is 7.8mm and Moto Z3 is 6.8mm!).
- jankassens 7y ago
  I was thinking they might keep the lightning standard until they would finally remove all connectors from iPhones. But then the whole AirPower charging pad didn’t work out, so not sure why they wouldn’t switch over finally.
- brisance 7y ago
  You can't make a determination of connector dimensions based on device specs, because they're not strongly correlated. The simplest explanation is that Lightning came out before USB-C did, and Apple did not want to risk another PR backlash from getting everyone to move to it after they'd just switched from the 30-pin connector cable.
  - schwartzworld 7y ago
    That's not as simple as "they make more money when you have to buy their peripherals"
DevKoala 7y ago
Please no. Design. by committee, specially political ones, is the worst thing that could happen to innovation.
- lopmotr 7y ago
  But isn't that how USB and lots of standards are designed? Not political but still committees. It might not be perfectly elegant but at least it's a universal standard, which is the main point of it. I don't want the return of Sony Memorysticks and all that nonsense as every company tries to be the winner. 18V powertool batteries currently suffer from pointless brand fragmentation even though they're all basically the same capability.
  - DevKoala 7y ago
    The USB interface isn't perfect. Committees for setting standards should exist, but they should not be the only driving factor for change.
orf 7y ago
iPad Pro already has a USB-C connector, clearly Apple are already in the process of doing this
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  I picked up a pair of AirPods Pro a bit ago, and was surprised to see a Lightning connector. Not only that, but the included cable was USB-C to Lightning. I don’t know why they bothered at all, honestly.
  - mvanbaak 7y ago
    Because most of the people who buy the airpods, have an iphone. So, they can use the cable they use to charge their iphone to charge their airpods and vc versa. The fact that it's an usb-c to lightning is because all their macbooks are usb-c ;-P
    - LyndsySimon 7y ago
      I have an iPhone X, which is the only other device I own with a Lightning port. I use a Qi charger for it. I also have an iPad Pro and a laptop that uses USB-C for power. In fact, I had to look it up and was surprised to see that the iPhone 11 has a Lightning port. Odd.
toasterlovin 7y ago
I think it’s useful to keep in mind that Apple helped design USB-C, so it’s not like they’re shunning the standard. And they were one of the earlier adopters in the PC space, and they’ve adopted it for the iPad Pro. I think the main thing holding them back is a combination of 1) the huge installed base of lightning accessories, and 2) the fact that USB-C adoption has been slow.
freepor 7y ago
Please let’s not have politicians legislate connector hardware. People can vote with their wallets, Android has settled on USB-C and has captured a lot of market share. The market is working here.
planetzero 7y ago
Government mandated technology. What could go wrong?
- flukus 7y ago
  This is exactly the sort of thing governments are good at. Previous successes are things like railway gauges, power connectors, power voltages, measurement units, etc. This is the sort of thing that allows the free market to work efficiently.
  - Turing_Machine 7y ago
    Things like railway gauges are components of a large-scale national network. That is not true of a device connector, which only has to work between the device and the power brick.
    - lokedhs 7y ago
      With a standard connector one can have standardised power bricks too, which may eventually lead to no need for power bricks at all.
      - Turing_Machine 7y ago
        But we already have that. The power brick almost always has a USB connector on it nowadays (even with Apple), and it didn't require setting up a perpetual committee of bureaucrats to feed at the public trough.
        andylynch 7y ago
        As others have noted, this was in large part due to the European Commission’s common external power supply initiative back in 2009, and similar standards in Asia.
        Turing_Machine 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pcr910303 7y ago
Well, FWIW even without these kinds of forcing, Apple still will move on to the USB-C connector... USB-C is literally an Apple designed port. The iPad Pro is adopting USB-C, I suspect that the next generation of iPhones will also adopt USB-C. It's just that the current market of lightning is too big and they weren't prepared for the overhaul yet.
- lokedhs 7y ago
  Apple had engineers on the design team, but it's definitely not their invention. Even an Apple-focused publication agrees with that: https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
hardtke 7y ago
Isn't the issue that Apple charges 3rd party manufacturers a licensing fee to use their proprietary designs? This raises antitrust issues (using dominance in one market to control another market).
- tatersolid 7y ago
  > This raises antitrust issues (using dominance in one market to control another market). No it doesn’t. Patents are a explicitly a time-limited, government-granted monopoly on a particular innovation. Patents were originally established to create a financial reward which encourages investment and invention. Patents are often abused of course, but incentivizing the creation of an innovative tiny and durable connector is exactly what a patent is designed to do.
GhostVII 7y ago
I can't believe this legislation is actually being seriously considered, why would you want the government forcing you to have a certain port on your phone. By all means have regulations for things like electrical outlets and radio frequencies and other protocols that interfere with each other, but when it comes to individual devices it is just going to completely stall any innovation. I don't want a manufacturer to have to lobby the government every time they want to start using some improved charging cable, or when they want to make a device where USB-C doesn't make sense, that's how we end up stuck on old standards for forever. Doesn't seem like the government's business anyways, you are really going to make it illegal for me to produce and purchase devices without USB-C? Seems insane to me, if people don't want a device because it doesn't have USB, they don't have to buy it.
- kovacs_x 7y ago
  why do you think it's a bad idea that all small appliances with power requirements <100w have single type connector? (ie. usb-c) What is you benefit as a consumer to have each appliance have it's own unique cable, generally providing same functionality?
  - jpxw 7y ago
    The benefit is that I prefer the lightning cable. It’s lightweight, small and looks nice. That’s the only reason I should need, but also competition means that in the future we will be able to have better chargers.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
    Cheaper and/or better products in the future that can't use USB C to deliver the same product at that price/performance. For example say I have a small < 100W device that needs to be powered and send data and I'd like to use the same connector for it. But wait, I'm going to put this gadget in an environment where people might knock the cable out so I'm going to use a different connector with a latching mechanism to prevent the cable from coming loose. Oh no, I can't do that because the government says I can't. Like OP said if it bothers you don't buy it. That's the market working for you. Diversity is good for the market and connectors aren't one size fits all, no regulation will change that.
alkonaut 7y ago
That would be pretty bad for anyone with a bunch of apple devices and a bunch of chargers, as during a period of several years you would no longer be able to charge any device using any charger in your home. It’s like the switch from the wide connctor to lightning all over again. I really don’t care what plug Apple uses (their own or something else) but I do want them to use a single one and stick with it.
diebeforei485 7y ago
I think this is dumb. I like the idea of everything using USB-C, but in reality I have found USB-C cables to be unreliable (with power and with data) when used with a device other than the one it came with. You could go on and on about power ratings and spec adherence, but I have never had such issues with Lightning cables.
- pier25 7y ago
  Same here. I've had nothing but bad experiences with USB-C.
eru 7y ago
That seems like pretty pointless regulation. If they don't like cable waste, just slap a Pigovian Tax on cable waste (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax) and let the market sort it out. > The regulator is determined to cut down on electronic waste being created by obsolete cables, which it estimates generate more than 51,000 tonnes of waste per year. Giving a per capita figure would have been helpful.
- FailingNYT 7y ago
  There are apple sheep that stand in snow thinking they are changing history. Market cannot sort out dumb
ksec 7y ago
Would someday they mandate all USB-C cables to support 100W standard to reduce wastage? So we dont have fragmented USB-C cables? For those of us old enough to remember we used to have dozens of different types of cables, We are now basically converging to CatX Ethernet Cables, HDMI, USB-C High Power and Low Power, and Lightning. I dont understand why we need to further mandate this to "one" solution, especially when the "one" solution doesn't seems to be optimal in all situation. We have a few, a little diversity, and it is good enough. Edit: And if Apple were to adopt a new connector I would much rather they adopt the Smart Connector used in iPad Pro. It is magnetic, super simple and easy to use. Fully Sealed and Water Proof by design.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  I'd like that connector to be a bit more secure. Not a lot, just a simple mechanical notch like on RCA would do.
ajonit 7y ago
Apple won't be happy for sure. Among other things, If USB C becomes an standard , Apple would lose the revenues from MFi certification program. (Though I am not sure how much they make using this program alone.)
chadlavi 7y ago
I am by no means a libertarian pry-from-my-cold-dead-hands type, but it's ludicrous to me that this is being legislated. There are way bigger problems to solve, EU. Quite honestly who gives a shit what connector phones use? Most users will stick with the same brand from device to device; I've been using the same chargers since 2013 or so. Ironically, this change would instantly produce a ton of tech waste and user inconvenience when apple customers throw away their old lightning cables.
kovacs_x 7y ago
Hopefully EU will decide on that! Let's be honest- only reason apple has lightning connector is that they can charge the hardware manufacturers. Lighning port should die. Same as the previous 30-pin connector.
DavideNL 7y ago
"No, the EU isn’t asking Apple to kill the Lightning cable" : https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-european-commission-common-charger-lightning-cable-port https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-europea...

82 points by tartoran 7y ago

voisin 7y ago

Just switch to wireless Qi charging and eliminate cords altogether.

filoleg 7y ago
I would be all for it, as long as there was some strong and small magnetic Qi charger that allows you to charge while using the phone at the same time as you hold it in one hand. Maybe it already exists, in which case, great, I am all for it already.

dreamcompiler 7y ago

Good. Wireless Qi charging is too slow, and Apple is still being a dongle diva by constantly inventing its own special connectors.

spaginal 7y ago
Then stop buying Apple products.
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  Oh I have. And I had been buying them in large quantities since 1984. But the astonishingly low quality of Apple's hardware and software over the last 5 years has made me stop.
evilduck 7y ago
Constantly? Like, twice in twenty years?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  I stand by my comment. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCDDwR2x9k0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCDDwR2x9k0
  - evilduck 7y ago
    So besides lightning and the 40 pin connection, what else in that video is a proprietary Apple connector?
pwinnski 7y ago
Apple - 2003: 30-pin connector - 2012: Lightning connector USB - 1998: A/B - 2000: Mini-A/B - 2007: Micro-A/B - (Skipping some that were not used for phones) - 2014: C

SllX 7y ago

Enforcing a mandatory switch to USB-C is moot with Qi charging kicking around and widely supported.

siquick 7y ago

This is a fantastic piece of legislation.

kbrwn 7y ago

To everyone that thinks no ports, Qi only iPhones are the future. What if you want to use your phone while it chargers? Charge your phone in the car? I think we are another 10 years at least from having a device that could last long enough off a single charge to warrant occasionally leaving it on a pad over night as the main charging method.

zippergz 7y ago
I would not be a fan of not having a charging port, but I Qi charge my phone in the car every day. It's fine. One of my cars has it built-in to the armrest, and in another I have a third-party mount with an integrated Qi charger.
- opless 7y ago
  I've almost completely moved to Qi charging my phone. Oddly it took a while for me to find an in car CD mount type, as most of them are air vent types.
jedberg 7y ago
My car has an option for a built in Qi charger. It’s in the spot you normally put your phone anyway. That being said, how would you service a portless phone? There would be no more DFU mode.
- mcgoo 7y ago
  It seems like it’s essential right now at least. The Apple Watch has a hidden lightning port that I have never even seen.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    You’ve never seen it because it doesn’t exist. :) It was an unsubstantiated rumor.
- danaris 7y ago
  And how would you activate CarPlay? At the moment it's wired-only, and I'm skeptical as to whether it could be made to work over Bluetooth in existing cars. If you bought a new car today with wired CarPlay, you might still be driving it in 5 or even 10 years, and you really wouldn't want to lose the ability to actually use CarPlay in just a year or two.

SamReidHughes 7y ago

So basically some subset of EU Parliament legislators have an opinion about something. In Apple's defense, the lightning connector and previous iPod connector both served as a charging cable and computer interface cable. So it was never the same situation as the old devoted phone chargers. And they invented them without any standard alternatives available. If this passes, the next time you think about inventing an interface and start with all your products and the whole accessory market, remember the EU Parliament might legislate away your right to use it.

ardit33 7y ago
They are telling the industry to choose one common connector, and to standardize around it.... They are not dictating which one.... and that the one they choose has to be set in stone (i.e. never change) De facto it is going to probably be USB-C, and I think it is a good move.... If years down the road, there is a new connector called USB-D (or whatever it is called), they can switch to it.... Also, this is for charging, and not data..., so it shouldn't hamper adoption of new data transport protocols.
- wvenable 7y ago
  But if it's law to use the standard connector than how do you use a different (lets say newer) connection if the law says to use the standard connector. There's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Somebody is going to have to build a device with a connector that isn't standard at some point to make progress.
  - Xixi 7y ago
    It only means that device makers will have to agree on a new standard before they can drop the previous one. I agree that it will slow down things, but there is no chicken and egg problem.
    - wvenable 7y ago
      And what if they can't agree? Maybe apple make a device so thin that even USB-C won't fit and other manufacturers explicitly decide to hobble them by not supporting a thinner connector. This law would be great for anti-competitive practices. Lowest common denominator wins by default.

unlinked_dll 7y ago

Don't most folks speculate they're going to abandon it within the next generation or two? I don't want government telling me what ports I can use in my design to be frank. I get there are issues out there, but this is something that the invisible hand of the market has done a good job of culling. Remember how it used to be with every device having a wack connector? Nowadays you can count on pretty much anything being a common variant of USB.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
The EU seems to be making an environmental argument, which seems credible?
- Turing_Machine 7y ago
  Not really. As someone pointed out above, cables wear out fast. It's not like you're going to save the planet by buying one cable that will last the rest of your life. Most people go through several cables over the lifespan of a device anyway. What it does sound like a good way to get stuck with an obsolete and substandard cable format forever, because once the One True Cable Design is mandated by government fiat, changing it to something else is going to be hell.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I think most of the comments I've seen here about cables wearing out fast have been specifically about Apple lightning cables. In my experience, USB cables do not wear out quickly, especially if you buy braided ones. In the past 15 years or so, I think I've had a single cable fail (a cheap, crappy one that came free with something). As a consumer, it benefits me greatly to only need one connector and charger, and the environmental argument makes a lot of sense to me too.
jyounker 7y ago
My understanding is that this process was driven largely by pressure from the EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

delecti 7y ago

I mean, it's good to reduce disposable cables, but it's not like Apple is egregious about this. The Lightning port has been in use longer than the time between the release of USB and Mini-USB, Mini-USB and Micro-USB, Micro-USB and USB-C, or USB-C to today. The 30-pin connector was current for 9 years, even longer than Lightning has been around.

kd913 7y ago
This is a rather pointless stat though. None of the cables currently available are rated for 9 years and most have a ridiculously short lifespan of 1-2 years anyway. In fact it probably works against Apple as it demonstrates that the churn of innovation doesn't really exist if new advances only occur every 9 years.
- bjtitus 7y ago
  How is it pointless? The article talks about trying to cut down on electronic waste: > The regulator is determined to cut down on electronic waste being created by obsolete cables, which it estimates generate more than 51,000 tonnes of waste per year. It's surely much less wasteful to extend the life of the cable standard than to ensure longer cable lifespans. Even if you had a cable that lasted 7 years, chances are the standard would have changed and you would be forced to replace it. You can always purchase higher quality cables that do have longer lifespans if Apple's aren't up to your quality standards. > In fact it probably works against Apple as it demonstrates that the churn of innovation doesn't really exist if new advances only occur every 9 years. I think you may have misunderstood the OP statistics. My understanding was that the industry standards have previously been churning at a higher rate than Apple's standards. So Apple's standards are often longer lived than the standard connections.
  - kd913 7y ago
    It's pointless because , the chance of a cable lasting 7 years doesn't happen. Even the phone isn't typically designed to last that long. The cases where people end up replacing their cable because of a new standard is way less frequent than the cable breaking, this has been my experience at least considering the shifting standards which you talk about. It sounds a bit like optimizing some process but ignoring what is actually the bottleneck. The problem in this case is not the standard on top, but the lifetime of the cable. If the goal is to reduce e-waste then surely it makes sense to tackle the approach from a reduce, reuse, recycle perspective in that order and focussing on the EOL for the cable. By shifting to one cable standard, you can reduce/reuse as at least other products can have better utilization as that old cable is still usable with other products. I have been less incentivised to buy new usb C cable for my phone because my switch and headphone cables still work just fine. I can't do anything with a lightning cable if my iphone dies other than to use it for apple products. Just like I can't do anything with my old ipod connectors. That is just straight e-waste. By shifting to one cable standard, we can more easily recycle the cable as there would be more manufacturers who would have the supply-chain/capabilities of recycling these chargers. Contrast that to the lightning cable which only apple and other companies with a lightning connector can handle effectively.

pg_bot 7y ago

If every new phone comes with a charging cable how much are we truly saving?

RealStickman 7y ago
You wouldn't need a new charger with every phone then. Why not just let users buy that separately?

DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago

While I'm fraustrated with the connector diversity in my home, I'm not at all keen to have technology design mandated. Would this forbid a certain type of product from using something better, and force new design to be via committees? I mean, it's not like Europe uses all the same mains power plugs. Well, I guess UK leaving will help there.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
I share you concern, but I wonder if a strong law could account for this? "You must use the standard, unless doing so would have a substantial impact on your product's capabilities." (I wrote this in 30 seconds, replace with more legally sound version.) I feel like Apple would have a hard time arguing the lightening is technically more capable than USB-C. But if they want to create something that is a clear improvement, they can go for it... until a standardized version catches up.
- deleted 7y ago
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- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Lightning is smaller, case closed.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Is it meaningfully smaller? Side by side, they look the same size to me.
    - SamReidHughes 7y ago
      Yes? That depends on the device, of course. I think another good argument for phones is that it's surely much easier to clean lint out of a lightning port than a USB C port. Edit: But probably, I'd guess, right now the main reason Apple has stuck to lightning to whatever extent it is is because it's more convenient for its customers. USB C is already the standard, and Apple would benefit from switching to USB C across its product line if its customers would like that more.

brandur 7y ago

Does anyone know if there's any merit to Apple's claim that USB-C isn't compatible with the iPhone's slim dimensions? (From the article: "Apple insisted that its slimmer devices would be unable to fit the then-new USB-C technology ...") Just looking at the tech specs for the iPhone 11 (lightning) [1] versus iPad Pro (USB-C) [2], the former is actually thicker at 8.3 mm compared to 5.9 mm, and yet the iPad Pro can have USB-C. Especially given that it's so prevalent in their other hardware, it almost seems like stubbornness at this point that Apple doesn't want to switch, but admittedly that doesn't pass the test of Hanlon's razor. It seems like there must be a better explanation out there somewhere for why they've desperately clung to lightning for so long (backward cable compatibility within the iPhone ecosystem? inertia in circuit/case design?). --- [1] https://www.apple.com/iphone-11/specs/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-11/specs/ [2] https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/

koyote 7y ago
It's bullshit as far as I can see. Most Android flagships with Type-C are either similar or thinner than the iPhone (Samsung S10 for example which is 7.8mm and Moto Z3 is 6.8mm!).
jankassens 7y ago
I was thinking they might keep the lightning standard until they would finally remove all connectors from iPhones. But then the whole AirPower charging pad didn’t work out, so not sure why they wouldn’t switch over finally.
brisance 7y ago
You can't make a determination of connector dimensions based on device specs, because they're not strongly correlated. The simplest explanation is that Lightning came out before USB-C did, and Apple did not want to risk another PR backlash from getting everyone to move to it after they'd just switched from the 30-pin connector cable.
- schwartzworld 7y ago
  That's not as simple as "they make more money when you have to buy their peripherals"

DevKoala 7y ago

Please no. Design. by committee, specially political ones, is the worst thing that could happen to innovation.

lopmotr 7y ago
But isn't that how USB and lots of standards are designed? Not political but still committees. It might not be perfectly elegant but at least it's a universal standard, which is the main point of it. I don't want the return of Sony Memorysticks and all that nonsense as every company tries to be the winner. 18V powertool batteries currently suffer from pointless brand fragmentation even though they're all basically the same capability.
- DevKoala 7y ago
  The USB interface isn't perfect. Committees for setting standards should exist, but they should not be the only driving factor for change.

orf 7y ago

iPad Pro already has a USB-C connector, clearly Apple are already in the process of doing this

LyndsySimon 7y ago
I picked up a pair of AirPods Pro a bit ago, and was surprised to see a Lightning connector. Not only that, but the included cable was USB-C to Lightning. I don’t know why they bothered at all, honestly.
- mvanbaak 7y ago
  Because most of the people who buy the airpods, have an iphone. So, they can use the cable they use to charge their iphone to charge their airpods and vc versa. The fact that it's an usb-c to lightning is because all their macbooks are usb-c ;-P
  - LyndsySimon 7y ago
    I have an iPhone X, which is the only other device I own with a Lightning port. I use a Qi charger for it. I also have an iPad Pro and a laptop that uses USB-C for power. In fact, I had to look it up and was surprised to see that the iPhone 11 has a Lightning port. Odd.

toasterlovin 7y ago

I think it’s useful to keep in mind that Apple helped design USB-C, so it’s not like they’re shunning the standard. And they were one of the earlier adopters in the PC space, and they’ve adopted it for the iPad Pro. I think the main thing holding them back is a combination of 1) the huge installed base of lightning accessories, and 2) the fact that USB-C adoption has been slow.

freepor 7y ago

Please let’s not have politicians legislate connector hardware. People can vote with their wallets, Android has settled on USB-C and has captured a lot of market share. The market is working here.

planetzero 7y ago

Government mandated technology. What could go wrong?

flukus 7y ago
This is exactly the sort of thing governments are good at. Previous successes are things like railway gauges, power connectors, power voltages, measurement units, etc. This is the sort of thing that allows the free market to work efficiently.
- Turing_Machine 7y ago
  Things like railway gauges are components of a large-scale national network. That is not true of a device connector, which only has to work between the device and the power brick.
  - lokedhs 7y ago
    With a standard connector one can have standardised power bricks too, which may eventually lead to no need for power bricks at all.
    - Turing_Machine 7y ago
      But we already have that. The power brick almost always has a USB connector on it nowadays (even with Apple), and it didn't require setting up a perpetual committee of bureaucrats to feed at the public trough.
      - andylynch 7y ago
        As others have noted, this was in large part due to the European Commission’s common external power supply initiative back in 2009, and similar standards in Asia.
        Turing_Machine 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

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pcr910303 7y ago

Well, FWIW even without these kinds of forcing, Apple still will move on to the USB-C connector... USB-C is literally an Apple designed port. The iPad Pro is adopting USB-C, I suspect that the next generation of iPhones will also adopt USB-C. It's just that the current market of lightning is too big and they weren't prepared for the overhaul yet.

lokedhs 7y ago
Apple had engineers on the design team, but it's definitely not their invention. Even an Apple-focused publication agrees with that: https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/

hardtke 7y ago

Isn't the issue that Apple charges 3rd party manufacturers a licensing fee to use their proprietary designs? This raises antitrust issues (using dominance in one market to control another market).

tatersolid 7y ago
> This raises antitrust issues (using dominance in one market to control another market). No it doesn’t. Patents are a explicitly a time-limited, government-granted monopoly on a particular innovation. Patents were originally established to create a financial reward which encourages investment and invention. Patents are often abused of course, but incentivizing the creation of an innovative tiny and durable connector is exactly what a patent is designed to do.

GhostVII 7y ago

I can't believe this legislation is actually being seriously considered, why would you want the government forcing you to have a certain port on your phone. By all means have regulations for things like electrical outlets and radio frequencies and other protocols that interfere with each other, but when it comes to individual devices it is just going to completely stall any innovation. I don't want a manufacturer to have to lobby the government every time they want to start using some improved charging cable, or when they want to make a device where USB-C doesn't make sense, that's how we end up stuck on old standards for forever. Doesn't seem like the government's business anyways, you are really going to make it illegal for me to produce and purchase devices without USB-C? Seems insane to me, if people don't want a device because it doesn't have USB, they don't have to buy it.

kovacs_x 7y ago
why do you think it's a bad idea that all small appliances with power requirements <100w have single type connector? (ie. usb-c) What is you benefit as a consumer to have each appliance have it's own unique cable, generally providing same functionality?
- jpxw 7y ago
  The benefit is that I prefer the lightning cable. It’s lightweight, small and looks nice. That’s the only reason I should need, but also competition means that in the future we will be able to have better chargers.
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  Cheaper and/or better products in the future that can't use USB C to deliver the same product at that price/performance. For example say I have a small < 100W device that needs to be powered and send data and I'd like to use the same connector for it. But wait, I'm going to put this gadget in an environment where people might knock the cable out so I'm going to use a different connector with a latching mechanism to prevent the cable from coming loose. Oh no, I can't do that because the government says I can't. Like OP said if it bothers you don't buy it. That's the market working for you. Diversity is good for the market and connectors aren't one size fits all, no regulation will change that.

alkonaut 7y ago

That would be pretty bad for anyone with a bunch of apple devices and a bunch of chargers, as during a period of several years you would no longer be able to charge any device using any charger in your home. It’s like the switch from the wide connctor to lightning all over again. I really don’t care what plug Apple uses (their own or something else) but I do want them to use a single one and stick with it.

diebeforei485 7y ago

I think this is dumb. I like the idea of everything using USB-C, but in reality I have found USB-C cables to be unreliable (with power and with data) when used with a device other than the one it came with. You could go on and on about power ratings and spec adherence, but I have never had such issues with Lightning cables.

pier25 7y ago
Same here. I've had nothing but bad experiences with USB-C.

eru 7y ago

That seems like pretty pointless regulation. If they don't like cable waste, just slap a Pigovian Tax on cable waste (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax) and let the market sort it out. > The regulator is determined to cut down on electronic waste being created by obsolete cables, which it estimates generate more than 51,000 tonnes of waste per year. Giving a per capita figure would have been helpful.

FailingNYT 7y ago
There are apple sheep that stand in snow thinking they are changing history. Market cannot sort out dumb

ksec 7y ago

Would someday they mandate all USB-C cables to support 100W standard to reduce wastage? So we dont have fragmented USB-C cables? For those of us old enough to remember we used to have dozens of different types of cables, We are now basically converging to CatX Ethernet Cables, HDMI, USB-C High Power and Low Power, and Lightning. I dont understand why we need to further mandate this to "one" solution, especially when the "one" solution doesn't seems to be optimal in all situation. We have a few, a little diversity, and it is good enough. Edit: And if Apple were to adopt a new connector I would much rather they adopt the Smart Connector used in iPad Pro. It is magnetic, super simple and easy to use. Fully Sealed and Water Proof by design.

AstralStorm 7y ago
I'd like that connector to be a bit more secure. Not a lot, just a simple mechanical notch like on RCA would do.

ajonit 7y ago

Apple won't be happy for sure. Among other things, If USB C becomes an standard , Apple would lose the revenues from MFi certification program. (Though I am not sure how much they make using this program alone.)

chadlavi 7y ago

I am by no means a libertarian pry-from-my-cold-dead-hands type, but it's ludicrous to me that this is being legislated. There are way bigger problems to solve, EU. Quite honestly who gives a shit what connector phones use? Most users will stick with the same brand from device to device; I've been using the same chargers since 2013 or so. Ironically, this change would instantly produce a ton of tech waste and user inconvenience when apple customers throw away their old lightning cables.

kovacs_x 7y ago

Hopefully EU will decide on that! Let's be honest- only reason apple has lightning connector is that they can charge the hardware manufacturers. Lighning port should die. Same as the previous 30-pin connector.

DavideNL 7y ago

"No, the EU isn’t asking Apple to kill the Lightning cable" : https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-european-commission-common-charger-lightning-cable-port https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-europea...