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It's worth pointing out that since the incident Iran has arrested those responsible for downing the jet - in an attempt to place blame on to individuals - who I

It's worth pointing out that since the incident Iran has arrested those responsible for downing the jet - in an attempt to place blame on to individuals - who I'm certain are devastated at accidentally killing their countryman. I suspect they will be labelled traitors and never seen again. They have also arrested the person who filmed this video [2]. Whilst we might celebrate this investigative journalism, this video changed the course of the narrative and forced Iran to come clean, we should also be aware of the consequences of it. [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51114945 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51114945

boutad 7y ago
Why did BBC put quotes around the word arrested in the title?
- dharmab 7y ago
  BBC's style guide puts quotes around any part of a headline that is reporting on what others have said.
- cavanasm 7y ago
  Probably because there's a dispute over whether anyone was actually arrested, or if they arrested the wrong person, because the journalist who received the video says his source has not been arrested.
- testvox 7y ago
  Generally when newspapers put quotes around a word like that it means they are using a word quoted directly from a source.
chii 7y ago
> we should also be aware of the consequences of it. which is that an authoritarian regime is never a good thing. Society requires that bad actors be publicly visible and called out, as this creates a pressure for them to act sensibly. The first thing an authoritarian regime implements is censorship and apply any chilling effect they can, because they know this is the only way they can hide their acts from the public at large.
- amiga_500 7y ago
  The West is just better at obfuscating via softer power. What's happening with Epstien's case now? Who in the press will continue to follow that up? Some guy might try to keep on it, and then get told at the end of the year that he's been cut due to a profit warning or whatever. Who's going to keep on writing about Prince Andrew not being arrested? Different methods but pretty-much the same lack of visibility.
  - nyolfen 7y ago
    bad timing on this one lol: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/01/16/jeffrey-epstein-virgin-islands-lawsuit/%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2...
    - amiga_500 7y ago
      Let's see. Nobody went to jail for 2008, they just stonewalled it.
      - tnel77 7y ago
        Genuine question: what laws were broken in 2008 (assuming you are referencing the ‘Great Recession’)?
      - koheripbal 7y ago
        In fact, people did go to jail. Here's just one example, but there are others... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/seven-defendants-mortgage-origination-fraud-scheme-indicted-bank-fraud-conspiracy-along-other https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/seven-defendants-mortgage-ori... Also, the CEOs and employees of the banks like Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch in question large portions of their life savings. The CEO of Lehman, for example, lost 50% of his net worth - over 4 Billion dollars. ...and obviously destroyed his reputation. Well deserved, of course, but it's hardly "no punishment". ...the same was true with most if not all senior employees. All of them had large portions of their compensation in equity stock options. I'm, unfortunately, speaking from experience. It's one thing to say the people "responsible" didn't get punished enough - that's true. But most people at these banks definitely suffered, materially.
arwhatever 7y ago
This really strikes me as analogous to a blame-the-programmer situation, when what is really needed is a process improvement or change.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Programmers are no less responsible than architects and craftsmen when building bad things, or even indeterminate things for bad people.
duxup 7y ago
Add Saudi Arabia to that list... who knows how much the folks they're going to execute after the Khashoggi events had anything to do with it / what happens to anyone else approving it. The end result is that particularly with oppressive governments the truth has costs.... but I"m not sure of any other alternative.
boomboomsubban 7y ago
If someone shot a missile at a plane in America they would unquestionably be arrested. You don't need a political motive for this arrest. Additionally, videotaping military actions deemed vital to national security is a crime in the US. I agree that all those arrested are unlikely to get a fair trial, but arresting these people is standard action.
- dontbenebby 7y ago
  >Additionally, videotaping military actions deemed vital to national security is a crime in the US. Interesting, I'm curious which law says filming in a public location the downing of an airliner by the military would be a crime? Can you please give me a link or citation so I can read more about this?
  - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
    In addition, the Grand Parent comment didn't mention that in the article the BBC is saying that the person who filmed the video is SAFE, and that is taking the blame. So Iran has arrested an innocent person in order to shift public anger onto them, for something that shouldn't have been a crime in the first place.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      >So Iran has arrested an innocent person in order to shift public anger onto them, Or they mistakenly arrested the wrong person to ensure the cameraman was not filming the missile at the command of an enemy nation. Arresting an innocent person is a necessary evil worldwide, convicting them would be forcing them to take the blame.
      - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
        You can't "ensure they aren't working for an enemy nation" if it's the wrong person. Your presuming it was an accident they got the wrong person. I'm presuming it wasn't. Both are presumptions, but based on the the rest of their actions it seems like my presumption is more likely.
freetanga 7y ago
Chelsea Manning probably takes comfort that this does not happen in the US

boutad 7y ago

Why did BBC put quotes around the word arrested in the title?

dharmab 7y ago
BBC's style guide puts quotes around any part of a headline that is reporting on what others have said.
cavanasm 7y ago
Probably because there's a dispute over whether anyone was actually arrested, or if they arrested the wrong person, because the journalist who received the video says his source has not been arrested.
testvox 7y ago
Generally when newspapers put quotes around a word like that it means they are using a word quoted directly from a source.

chii 7y ago

> we should also be aware of the consequences of it. which is that an authoritarian regime is never a good thing. Society requires that bad actors be publicly visible and called out, as this creates a pressure for them to act sensibly. The first thing an authoritarian regime implements is censorship and apply any chilling effect they can, because they know this is the only way they can hide their acts from the public at large.

amiga_500 7y ago
The West is just better at obfuscating via softer power. What's happening with Epstien's case now? Who in the press will continue to follow that up? Some guy might try to keep on it, and then get told at the end of the year that he's been cut due to a profit warning or whatever. Who's going to keep on writing about Prince Andrew not being arrested? Different methods but pretty-much the same lack of visibility.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  bad timing on this one lol: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/01/16/jeffrey-epstein-virgin-islands-lawsuit/%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2...
  - amiga_500 7y ago
    Let's see. Nobody went to jail for 2008, they just stonewalled it.
    - tnel77 7y ago
      Genuine question: what laws were broken in 2008 (assuming you are referencing the ‘Great Recession’)?
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      In fact, people did go to jail. Here's just one example, but there are others... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/seven-defendants-mortgage-origination-fraud-scheme-indicted-bank-fraud-conspiracy-along-other https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/seven-defendants-mortgage-ori... Also, the CEOs and employees of the banks like Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch in question large portions of their life savings. The CEO of Lehman, for example, lost 50% of his net worth - over 4 Billion dollars. ...and obviously destroyed his reputation. Well deserved, of course, but it's hardly "no punishment". ...the same was true with most if not all senior employees. All of them had large portions of their compensation in equity stock options. I'm, unfortunately, speaking from experience. It's one thing to say the people "responsible" didn't get punished enough - that's true. But most people at these banks definitely suffered, materially.

arwhatever 7y ago

This really strikes me as analogous to a blame-the-programmer situation, when what is really needed is a process improvement or change.

Jamwinner 7y ago
Programmers are no less responsible than architects and craftsmen when building bad things, or even indeterminate things for bad people.

duxup 7y ago

Add Saudi Arabia to that list... who knows how much the folks they're going to execute after the Khashoggi events had anything to do with it / what happens to anyone else approving it. The end result is that particularly with oppressive governments the truth has costs.... but I"m not sure of any other alternative.

boomboomsubban 7y ago

If someone shot a missile at a plane in America they would unquestionably be arrested. You don't need a political motive for this arrest. Additionally, videotaping military actions deemed vital to national security is a crime in the US. I agree that all those arrested are unlikely to get a fair trial, but arresting these people is standard action.

dontbenebby 7y ago
>Additionally, videotaping military actions deemed vital to national security is a crime in the US. Interesting, I'm curious which law says filming in a public location the downing of an airliner by the military would be a crime? Can you please give me a link or citation so I can read more about this?
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
  In addition, the Grand Parent comment didn't mention that in the article the BBC is saying that the person who filmed the video is SAFE, and that is taking the blame. So Iran has arrested an innocent person in order to shift public anger onto them, for something that shouldn't have been a crime in the first place.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    >So Iran has arrested an innocent person in order to shift public anger onto them, Or they mistakenly arrested the wrong person to ensure the cameraman was not filming the missile at the command of an enemy nation. Arresting an innocent person is a necessary evil worldwide, convicting them would be forcing them to take the blame.
    - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
      You can't "ensure they aren't working for an enemy nation" if it's the wrong person. Your presuming it was an accident they got the wrong person. I'm presuming it wasn't. Both are presumptions, but based on the the rest of their actions it seems like my presumption is more likely.

freetanga 7y ago

Chelsea Manning probably takes comfort that this does not happen in the US