19 ms·

Show HN: Tired of mobile games with IAP and ads, I made No-Bullshit Games

520 points by StavrosK 7y ago

bathtub365 7y ago
The table that has the game list in it doesn't work very well on my iPhone. I have to scroll horizontally.
splatcollision 7y ago
Thanks! Awesome idea. My son and I have started our own "game studio" for iOS, and I've submitted our first game, Barrel of DNA: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barrel-of-dna/id1460483070?ls=1 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barrel-of-dna/id1460483070?ls=... One of our main design principles is to charge a fair price and never do any ads, tracking or IAP's. The idea is to be contrary to the vast swathes of crap that is out there...
empath75 7y ago
A bit of ui advice — you can tell what phone I’m browsing on from user agent screen. You should default to showing me the right games right on the landing page.
- quaice 7y ago
  I personally liked that I could pick. I was browsing HN on Android but wanted to see what games were available for my kids iOS device. I liked that the decision was mine and that it was presented clearly rather than being forced to see a pre-filtered list.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thanks for the feedback, I think it would be better if I let the user choose since I personally want to look at both lists sometimes (or I'm on the PC). Besides, it's very easy to just bookmark the platform you want and go there, but I will consider it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- shakna 7y ago
  Parsing the user agent to determine something is, most of the time, a massive mistake. It isn't reliable, and it will frustrate users the moment you get it wrong.
mittermayr 7y ago
Top idea. Really really nice. I recently loaded up a blank Android phone with dozens and dozens of games, pretty much anything I could find for a 12h flight, only to realize most of them were an absolute horror show of IAPs and requiring internet connectivity for no apparent reason. So after you've grown this list (and it already looks amazing, excellent work!) maybe worthwhile considering to add an additional "works offline" flag, including the first start of the game. That would've been amazing to have. Either way — you've cracked the secret: make something people want (and saves them a lot of time).
- StavrosK 7y ago
  This is a great idea that lots of people have requested, and it's easy to add technically, the problem is in the messaging. The only way I get feedback now is through the "add new game" form, and in that you can tell me the reason for adding the game. However, "works offline" is a nice bit of info rather than a reason to add the game, so I don't exactly know where to ask for that...
  - johnrackles 7y ago
    Maybe just include a checkbox where people submit the info?
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Good idea, thanks! I'll add that soon.
franga2000 7y ago
Haven't had time to look through the list, but this is exactly what I've been looking for. While I don't play mobile games myself, my (older) relatives do a lot, but since something like the 10th time a scam ad almost got my grandmother to lose 300€, I no longer install anything with ads on their devices. It took me almost an hour to find a bullshit-free solitaire game in the Play Store. It took exactly 3 seconds here.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thanks, I'm glad you like it! I was expecting to have to curate this list myself and that people wouldn't submit much, but I've found a bunch of amazing games just by reviewing the submissions (including the Solitaire game you're talking about, if I'm not mistaken).
- me_me_me 7y ago
  The curated list by android team used to be my goto to find some games, but it deteriorated into useless list. All other top playstore list are garbage too. Finding anything good that isn't crippled by predatory practices is downright impossible. I don't mind paying for mobile games but this isn't as profitable as hook-line-sinker micro transaction model. I will give this list a go back home.
- Farbklex 7y ago
  Damn, this Solitair game isn't available in Germany.
- Krssst 7y ago
  When I am looking for a no-bullshit app or game on Android, I usually go to f-droid to look for an open source one. It has usually worked pretty well.
aphit 7y ago
Any reason why the Genre filter field is a text input rather than a dropdown? I went to look at the Genres available to see which ones I might like but the only way I can see to do this is by scrolling through the pages to look at the available options.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Yes, Apple games can belong in multiple genres and it was easier to do it this way, but I'm probably going to make it a dropdown since it's more usable.
  - PenguinCoder 7y ago
    Possibly make it a tag selector for easy multiple selection. You could then leave it a text input that sort of auto completes a tag name and adds it to the search filter
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      That's a good idea, but then I worry that it would narrow the results too much. Not that big a deal, since you can just remove a tag again, but I'll have to play around with it and see.
  - throwaway_ocr 7y ago
    A multi-select box for this would be nice. Select2 should be easy enough to implement, as you're already using jquery.
    - teddyh 7y ago
      Even HTML 4.01 had <select multiple>, no jQuery required: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/select https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/se...
tomclive 7y ago
Great idea. I really enjoyed Angry Birds when it first came out and when my children asked about to install it on their devices I said this was fine. I couldn't find the original Angry Birds so installed Angry Birds 2. What an awful convoluted mess it was. Instead of a simple, fun physics-based game it's full of lives, spells, bad level design and in-app purchases.
- jmuhlich 7y ago
  And it flat out refuses to run without an internet connection to fetch ads!
  - lostgame 7y ago
    When the recent Sonic the Hedgehog re-release from SEGA did this I just deleted it off my phone. shrugs
    - kfarr 7y ago
      Same! Instant delete. I hope game publishers start to get the message
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Oops, is it any of these? https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=sonic https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=sonic I was told they only contain DLC.
      - lostgame 7y ago
        The issue is that there is no offline play until you purchase - furthermore SEGA still advertises their own games if you're connected to the internet. Any app, IMHO, that requires to be connected to the internet to play so it can deliver you ads doesn't belong on this list. Sonic 1, 2 and CD at least behave like this atm.
        StavrosK 7y ago
Nothorized 7y ago
I recently changed my relation with video games. I used to play a lot of FIFA (or Football Manager), which are games who are just here to entertain yourself, but there is no backstory at all. Now I see video games as reading a book, or watching a great movie: focus on the story, the art design, the sound design, and the experience in general. I still play a bit of FIFA, but I reserve it to my social time (even though I find that FIFA create a lot of tensions, while Mario Kart is funnier to play, and the level to be competent is lower). The problem with most of IAP games are that they are in the same category than FIFA or FM. There is little backstory. While paying upfront for a game (on mobile, a dozen of great games exists, and you can play some of them during short period of time like Limbo...) create a sense of connection with the game, because you invest money in it, and you are ready to really invest time in it. On the opposite, IAP are games where the goal is to make you play as much as possible, to pay as much as possible.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  There are different kinds of IAP, some are free demos and you unlock the full game with an IAP, some let you buy extra content in the form of DLC, some remove ads, and some just want to get thousands of dollars out of you. I call the latter "bullshit" to differentiate from the former, which are OK to me.
  - soylentcola 7y ago
    Games that follow the old shareware model (free to try out, choose whether or not to pay for full game/disable ads) are my preference for sure. I don't mind paying $5 (or more) for a good mobile game, but with so much crap out there, it's tough to justify unless I am lucky enough to run across a trusted review or it's something from a developer that has earned my trust through previous offerings. Looking back, the games I buy/unlock tend to be the ones where I get to try them out first. If I play the first 10 levels or 1/5th of the story and really enjoy it, I'm eager to pay in-app to continue the game.
- pdpi 7y ago
  I'm in a similar place. A corollary to this is: I'm pickier about how the stories are told. Games are neither books nor films, and I'll pay a premium for games that find a way to tell their stories in ways that are distinct from those mediums.
mattcdrake 7y ago
Thanks for making this, really. Phone games seem to be a sort of gateway drug for video games and it's a shame that most of them are so laden with microtransactions and attention-hacks. Anything that can steer people away from heroin-adjacent mobile games toward games with substance is a great product in my book. Nice job.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thank you! I got fed up and made this the other day, after playing Head Ball 2 which is basically "Crack cocaine: the mobile game" in how predatory and insidious it is.
- ansible 7y ago
  I think it would make a fascinating study on how mobile gaming turned into this, when PC and console gaming (while suffering from some of this) is still viable for people who just want to buy a game and play it without shenanigans.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    I recall hearing back in the day iPhones were newer and dedicated mobile webpages were a functional matter, and the iPhone lacked serious competitors some web storefronts would abuse browser charge higher prices for iPhone browsers because they read it as a signal for more disposable income/willingness to pay more. The "luxury start" for a non-dedicated game device combined with the payment platform intergration of an app store was likely the original sin which turned the mobile game development culture that particular flavor of toxic. Of course that was also probably partly what got them developer buy in to their niche platform - the money.
chrisBob 7y ago
Do you have a way to filter duplicates? I just took a look at the iOS list and there are a few games that are on all 3 of the first 3 pages. I love the idea, and will use this to help find games for our family iPad.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Hmm, there should be no duplicates, something is iffy. Do you know which games?
  - devaler 7y ago
    I see The Room series of games multiple times.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Oops, that seems to be a pagination problem (they're only in the database once, as you can see here: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=room https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=room). I will investigate, thank you. EDIT: iOS games have a rating that's quantized 0.5 apart, so all the 5-star games were sorting unstably. Sorting by "-rating, -reviews" seems to have fixed that (and is more useful), thanks.
      - jldugger 7y ago
        Are you sure about that? You report Bacon the Game as a 5, but https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bacon-the-game/id1413085106 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bacon-the-game/id1413085106 lists it as 4.8 out of 5.
        StavrosK 7y ago
        Unfortunately, yes: https://itunes.apple.com/lookup?id=1413085106 https://itunes.apple.com/lookup?id=1413085106 However, since that API is very barebones and I'm scraping the page anyway, I'll scrape the rating as well, thank you for the heads up.
cableshaft 7y ago
Clever idea. I'm curious why you decided to allow games with DLC though. That's technically an In-App Purchase. I get it's not a Consumable IAP, but it's still IAP. Also you can probably add just about any modern (i.e. non-Hasbro) board game conversion to this list. Almost all of them charge a fee up front and won't have anything more than some DLC for their expansions. Like Ticket to Ride, Carcassonne, Through the Ages, etc. I'm actually working on a mobile game in my spare time right now, and while I normally like to charge money for them I thought I'd try the IAP route this time, but I wasn't planning on making it anywhere near as obnoxious as most IAP games. Ads you can pay a few bucks to remove, then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design), that's about it. I'm not looking to make all of the money in the world like these big companies are, just hopefully enough to make some side income and maybe eventually switch to making games full time. I tried playing a Jeopardy game recently, and it just bombards you with screens of crap constantly. Here's a screen where you can pay to add an item for a round! Use your items to help you answer a question slightly easier! Oh you won! Let's update your win streak! (or Oh no! you lost, you're about to go to 0 on your win streak, but if you pay, you can keep it up, and you'll get a reward if you keep it going enough!), then here's some special event that earns you some random nonsense for getting a question right! here's a level up screen! here's a screen that pesters you about something else (I don't know, I lost track after awhile). Just on and on, and in your face. I can't believe people will spend money for these stupid win streaks and whatnot. So yeah, I'm hoping mine doesn't come across as obnoxious (obviously it wouldn't qualify for the No-Bullshit list, though). And if it doesn't do well, at least it helped me get back in the swing of making mobile games again (it's been like 6 years). Good luck with your website, it looks nice! If you can add a few extra filters to it, you might have better discoverability than the Apple App Store, which has been too "Winner-Take-All because we refuse to highlight more than a handful of games or give proper filtering options" for forever.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  > Clever idea. I'm curious why you decided to allow games with DLC though. That's technically an In-App Purchase. I get it's not a Consumable IAP, but it's still IAP. That's why I called it "No-Bullshit Games" instead of "No-IAP games" :P > Ads you can pay a few bucks to remove That's fine by me. > then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design) That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. That said, it doesn't sound nearly as annoying as some of the crap I've installed. > yeah, I'm hoping mine doesn't come across as obnoxious (obviously it wouldn't qualify for the No-Bullshit list, though). Oh, I didn't read this far before starting the reply :P I hope so too, and yeah, it probably wouldn't qualify. Good luck with the game, I hope it goes well!
k__ 7y ago
Cool! Sorting by release time would be nice to see new stuff.
givinguflac 7y ago
This is why I’ve embraced Apple Arcade... it’s inexpensive and no games have in app purchases or ads it’s great
- splatcollision 7y ago
  I would love to hear some news about how the financials for Apple Arcade break down for game developers. I've got an awesome game in development and it's tempting to apply to include it in Arcade, but typically Apple they are super-light on details.
- have_faith 7y ago
  All they need now is some non-throwaway games.
- nottorp 7y ago
  Too bad it's not targeted towards gamers :)
  - ssully 7y ago
    What do you mean?
    - nottorp 7y ago
      I've taken a look at their launch list and it's 90% casual stuff with very simple mechanics that I'm not interested in. My main entertainment has been video games for more than 30 years so I either need a story, complex systems i can mess with or maybe a reflex challenge. Edit: Say, where can I find a complete list of the games they offer? I just checked their page and they seem very secretive about it. Another sign that it's targeted at parents buying something for the kids to shut them up :)
      - MattRix 7y ago
        Most kids would have a hard time playing Card of Darkness (for example), which is a fairly tough card-roguelike thing. Grindstone is also really good. There are a ton of great games on Apple Arcade. I will completely agree that Apple is bad about promoting it though, they don't really seem to understand how to talk about games at all.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
exikyut 7y ago
This is awesome, but I'm going to forget it exists, so: please take my email address and feed me notifications about when new games get added. (I might want to be notified immediately, weekly, or every N months.) Besides that, some minor nitpicks: - Infinite scrolling would be very nice to have - The ability to sort the columns by clicking the headers (eg, reviews) might be useful - I have some, uh, really old devices here that I continue to use. One is on Android 5. There are probably only like 4 people out there that will appreciate seeing a game's minimum Android version, but they'll really appreciate it - I kind of think surfacing screenshots or description info might be interesting, but that's probably because I'm on 256k slowed internet right now and am loathe to click links (lol) but want to compare/get more info about each game Also: something interesting is going on with the rating filtering. If I type in "4.8" and select Free under Android, I see 3 items; trying "4.7" gets me a total of 6 4.8-rated items.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thank you! > please take my email address and feed me notifications about when new games get added Hmm, that might be a bit spammy, do you have an RSS reader? Maybe I could add a feed. > Infinite scrolling would be very nice to have I had something similar before but people complained that they lost their place when clicking on apps to go to the store. Maybe that's fine now that they open in a new tab, I'll rethink that. > The ability to sort the columns by clicking the headers (eg, reviews) might be useful Yep, that's something I removed when I added the filtering system and that I need to add back, thanks. > something interesting is going on with the rating filtering. If I type in "4.8" and select Free under Android, I see 3 items Hmm, that's odd. I will investigate, thanks!
  - exikyut 7y ago
    I never ended up using RSS, but it seems a lot of others do, so perhaps this is a good idea. As for email, considering the general "success" (???) of signup boxes on websites, I get the impression (not having added such a box anywhere yet) that maybe this is the lowest common denominator solution for notifications in non- to semi-technical situations. Maybe a free email solution could be used to test the waters here, with the send rate options limited to every 1-2 months. And perhaps infinite scrolling could be combined with history.replaceState() (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History/replaceState https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History/rep...) to keep the URL in sync.
Marsymars 7y ago
I like this a lot. For a few years now I've wanted something like "No-Bullshit Podcasts" which does the same thing - lists podcasts that are either ad-free or that can be made ad-free via purchase, and that don't require a proprietary player.
- HenryBemis 7y ago
  All the BBC podcasts are ad-free, but I get them from within the UK. I am not sure if they have ads if served in other countries.
  - AndrewStephens 7y ago
    They do have ads outside the UK but they tend to be less intrusive (only at the start and maybe near the end) than other podcasts.
    - JNRowe 7y ago
      For others that are predictable like this, I push my downloads through a script before they hit my player. Back of the envelope zsh example to scrub first and last minute: for f (*.mp3) { mp3splt -d new -o @f $f 1.00 EOF-1.00 } mp3splt¹ doesn't re-encode files, and as such is neither lossy or slow. 1. http://mp3splt.sourceforge.net/ http://mp3splt.sourceforge.net/
  - JNRowe 7y ago
    Hmm, at what point do all the trailers for other shows tip in to the advert category? I wouldn't want to try counting how many times I heard a trailer about 13 Minutes to the Moon last year, which I'm picking on specifically because I actually enjoyed it to make the point that the bucket choice can be very subjective.
    - HenryBemis 7y ago
      The Brexitcast doesn't have ads. The Infinite Monkey Cage has a 10-15seconds clip in the end where they promote other science-y podcasts (which I always fast-forward anyway). I also listen to the weekly "SecurityNow", in which out of the 2h there should be at least 10-15mins where Leo reads out his ads. Leo also tries to push SpinRite, but since SR has saved many disks in my lifetime, I gladly listen to that bit (finally we'll have a faster performing version soon-ish).
neogodless 7y ago
I feel dumb so I don't know if it's a UI thing or just my weird brain, but I loaded this page on my phone, on Firefox and and Chrome, and I incorrectly assumed it was just broken. Where was the list of games?! Finally I read "choose your platform" and realized it was saying that not for adding games or any other reason, but to see one of the lists! D'oh!
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Hmm, I might have to do something about that, yes. Currently it's too much text on that page.
- fileeditview 7y ago
  You are not alone.. I also needed to visit the site 2-3 times until I realized that the Android logo is the door to the list I am interested in :)
twoquestions 7y ago
Joining the chorus of this being a wonderful idea. Maybe link to Metacritic or other respected reviewers? Thank you very much for this!
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thank you! Is there a way to find the Metacritic review automatically from the app ID?
  - twoquestions 7y ago
    Doesn't look like it at first glance, if I absolutely had to I'd screen-scrape the advanced search page for the link, which is a less than great way to do it. I donno.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  I've previously done some filtering based on whether a game was a PC port. It's much harder to add BS into a game with solid fundamentals, so I expect much more from ports of the Supergiant games, dead cells, oxenfree, etc than games that were created to be native mobile titles. The flipside is that those games might have awkward controls or performance issues or not be well suited to short play sessions. But it might be interesting to have a column linking to the Steam page for games that were ported in either direction.
d4n3 7y ago
Great idea... I don't mind paying for good games, but what i do mind is games that try to squeeze as much money out of you for just playing it, which fits your definition of bullshit games. So unlockable DLC and removable ads are fine, but endless pay-to-win consumables aren't. Sorting by number of reviews would be great - it's a better indicator of popularity than the review score
giarc 7y ago
I echo the others here, Thanks! I have young kids and we let them use tablets on long trips, vacations, airplane rides. Finding games for them is impossible. They are too young to understand when characters, levels, items are locked. It seems like every 2 minutes they get stuck on some ad screen with a hidden X. I just want a game that when I pay $4, I get the full game. It doesn't even have to be a big, intensive game. My kids would be happy with a finger painting game, as long as all the colouring sheets and paint brushes are available.
- awinder 7y ago
  I don't know how young is young, but finding this PBS app was great: https://pbskids.org/apps/pbs-kids-games.html https://pbskids.org/apps/pbs-kids-games.html No ads, works disconnected from the internet, and games are pretty simple and not driven towards some kind of monetary business system.
- celticmusic 7y ago
  As an adult I downloaded some tower building game and then eventually realized I had to pay to be able to keep playing it reasonably. It was my first experience ever with pay-to-play. I just deleted it and flat don't play mobile games anymore.
- hamaluik 7y ago
  Sago Mini might work for you if you’re willing to pay and your kids are the right age: https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sago-mini-world/id874425722 https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sago-mini-world/id874425722
  - madoublet 7y ago
    It says it has IAPs.
- gregmac 7y ago
  Yes, exactly this. I don't have any issue with paying for worthwhile games, but I do have an issue with games that try to continually extract more money from me -- you could spend hundreds of dollars on some of those "free-to-play" type games, and sorry, but the value just isn't there. You often can't even see this until you're into the game already (which I'm quite sure is by design), or read through some of the negative reviews. A 5-year-old who just wants to play that game with the characters they know doesn't understand this, and honestly, it's just easier to avoid entirely.
eps 7y ago
Good coverage, well done! At least for the iOS games. Few more to add: Tiny Bang PDTA (please don't touch anything) <- absolutely awesome btw! Carcassone Tokaido Miracle Merchant Alchemy 2 Supertype Ordinary puzzles Auralux, Auralux 2
- eps 7y ago
  PS. Feature-wise I think this could use a grouping of game series, e.g. Journey the Down - there are 3 parts, but it'd make sense to show them as a single meta-item.
- abnry 7y ago
  There are a lot of good board game apps. The only thing you buy in app is expansions to the games.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thank you! Could you add them via the form? That way I can keep the feedback in one place.
  - eps 7y ago
    Ah, found the form... but it was on the landing page that serves no other purpose but to forward people to the iOS or Android sections. So there's no real reason to ever go back to it. Perhaps link the form from the actual listing pages?
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Yes, I need to split it off to another page and add an "Add a game" button.
franze 7y ago
Here is my contribution (a webapp, a.k.a. a website) http://lalo.li/lsd/ http://lalo.li/lsd/ coded it years ago mostly drunk on an island in Thailand, I now like to play it again on my iPad with iPencil. Github: https://github.com/franzenzenhofer/lsd https://github.com/franzenzenhofer/lsd (Warning: a single, dependency less CoffeeScript source file)
- huhtenberg 7y ago
  How is it in any way relevant to OP's project being shown?
  - idclip 7y ago
    Social behavior, i wouldn't be too harsh on it. Nice game, it doesnt really take away from the op imo
    - tudorw 7y ago
      Agree, happy to see a list of no-bullshit games go up here, this is a tough crowd so it has to make the grade :)
  - somesortofsystm 7y ago
    Its a no-bullshit game, f'shiznit.
  - reificator 7y ago
    Presumably because it's a mobile game with no IAP or ads.
- joshstrange 7y ago
  Reminds me a bit of Jezzball (old game that shipped with windows) [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD6GQJxHh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD6GQJxHh7E
  - asdf21 7y ago
Fr33maan 7y ago
No IAP and no ads? How does a game studio should earn money then? Knowing the fact that business model of games are moving to free to play and than players are now reluctant more than ever to pay a decent price for a game but prefer spend 5x more little by little? Do you intend to reverse the trend? Real question, no trolling. How a game studio can make money with a F2P game? Or how can we make money from a free 2 play NoBullshit™ game. Disclaimer: I'm a game developer, I make a MMO F2P mobile game with IAP and ads. EDIT: I'm not trying to discuss why a F2P with IAP and ads is not always a Bullshit game, you guess that I'm trying to do things well.
- someone7x 7y ago
  You say the business model is moving to F2P but that is only part of the story. In the complete opposite direction we have Kickstarter et al. Now perhaps the “get filthy rich” business model is only sustainable by freemium addiction (they pay 5x!). At this point it’s more about greed/entitlement than than it is starving artists getting their bone.
  - Fr33maan 7y ago
    Thanks for your answer. Factually, kickstarter is not a business model, it's a way to get some seed money from future players. Once the game goes out you still need to have a business model. Making a game can be an artist job but it also can be a business which is expected to grow, fast and strong as any business. I found the use of the word "greed" extremely opinionated. Is CEO of Amazon greed ? Greed let suppose that it's accumulating money in a selfish way, which seems to be a pretty bad stuff. I might not understand the nuance as I'm not a native english speaker but I find really strange to link the desire of making money with the "greed" word. You are maybe right, maybe it's only possible to consider video games as a sustainable business with freemium addiction. I really ask the question
    - someone7x 7y ago
      > Strange to link the desire of money with the “greed” word. Is it? I didn’t even go full avarice. There is desire for fair compensation and there is greed. Diluting a product with IAP and Ads is to treat your players like serfs to be squeezed for “LTV”. Imagine buying a car where increasing the fuel economy for the next n hours required an “in-dashboard-payment”? It’s dilution to make money, aka greed.
mangoman 7y ago
Honestly, I wouldn't mind ads if they weren't so obtrusive. a simple ad on a loading screen isn't the end of the world to me. What's annoying is trying to tap a tiny 'x', unskippable video ads, ads that try to fingerprint my device, ads that slow down my machine, ads with volume, time limiting play unless you buy an IAP (when there's no option for just buying unlimited time for a reasonable price) I want game devs to be able to make a living, but there's a difference between game devs who responsibly put in monetization and game devs just trying to squeeze every last cent through deceit and manipulation.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I want devs to be able to make a living too, that's why I have ad-supported games on the list, as long as you can disable every single ad with a payment. What I hate is devs seeing me as a wallet to wring as much money out of as possible by preying on my addiction/impulses.
  - csours 7y ago
    I love to see games that have one-time payments to permanently remove ads. This lets the creators provide a free-ish demo, but also may provide some residual income. It also allows players with less money support the creators.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      They are in the list, marked with "One-time purchase".
      - vehementi 7y ago
        Can you put that one time purchase price in the price column? So it's not just listed as "free"
        StavrosK 7y ago
        I don't always know it, unfortunately.
CGamesPlay 7y ago
I like the list! I wish it was more usable on my actual mobile, though. There’s lots of inefficient use of space and strange word wrapping. Good start in any case!
nottorp 7y ago
Sometimes I hate that I can give only one upvote to a story. Back when the iPad 1 was new, I was actually playing games on mine. Then everything turned into a mess of IAP bullshit and now I don't even look at mobile game releases any more. Hopefully this site will help me find something to play.
offsky 7y ago
I built a site that’s adjacent to this idea (www.darkpattern.games). It catalogs the dark patterns found in mobile games. Premium currency and ads are two of them but there are many more. The idea is that you could educate yourself so the dark patterns have less power over you and also you can browse the site to find good games that don’t have dark patterns.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  That is extremely useful to me so I can define my guidelines better, thank you!
- grawprog 7y ago
  Thank you for making this. I've used this site before while trying to explain to my friend how Mobile Legends gets kids hooked on gambling and is basically digital crack. That game might as well have used your site as a manual. It is fun though, but damn, the constant and never ending Skinner boxes, gambling, and dark patterns to suck out money and time are over the top. I think that game covers just about every single point on your site.
- cableshaft 7y ago
  That's a pretty well done site, thanks for taking the time to make it. I don't think that all 'dark patterns' are necessarily always bad, especially after seeing everything that made your list, as you have "Complete the Collection" as an example. While I think that it can definitely be abused and does belong on the list, I do think collecting things can be part of the fun of games for people, and that's been in games pretty much since games moved from the arcades into the home consoles. Like platform games are often 'Collectathons', and one of my favorite games of all time, Yoshi's Island on Super Nintendo, has 5 collectible flowers and 20 red coins (and you have to do it with full health at the end of the level) to get up to 100 points for every single level. One of the things I love to do in that game is try to get the full 100 points in as many levels as possible. Another one is Badges, which is similar to Collections, but you're collecting the completion of goals instead. Personally I loved when Xbox 360 introduced Achievements, and I still wish the Switch offered them. When done right, it can leave a lasting demonstration of how much I enjoyed the game. Of course there's some stupid, grindy, super time consuming garbage that borderlines on player abuse for them, so I agree they qualify as a dark pattern, but I don't think they're inherently or always a bad thing and something game developers should always avoid if they want to make a game that wouldn't make the bad side of your list. A lot of these dark patterns I do think are probably always annoying and a bad experience, though, like "Wait to Play".
bpg_92 7y ago
Awesome website! Great work, it would be nice to have a sort parameter to sort by score or price.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thanks! Yes, I really need to add sorting... I'll do that next, thank you.
aloukissas 7y ago
I love seeing this become a project after seeing the tweet that (maybe?) started it. Good job SK!
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Thanks! If I remember correctly, that tweet was probably nearer the end, though my threshold for building something after complaining about it is rather low these days
  - ryanisnan 7y ago
    Stavros you read my mind with this app. <3
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      <3
zwegner 7y ago
Cool list! I'll throw in one I made for myself and never really showed to anyone. It's a clone of Unblock Me/Rush Hour, but with no ads and undo+redo support. It's only a website since I don't want to bother with app stores (I just save the page to my home screen). https://zwegner.github.io/slidey-blocky-thingy/base.html https://zwegner.github.io/slidey-blocky-thingy/base.html The puzzle variety isn't great, my generation method sorta sucks. I had started to build an exhaustive generator after reading Michael Fogleman's article[1] on it, but haven't finished. https://www.michaelfogleman.com/rush/ https://www.michaelfogleman.com/rush/
- severine 7y ago
  What's the objective of the game? I haven't played Unblock Me or Rush Hour.
  - zwegner 7y ago
    Ah yes, this would be kind of confusing in that case :) Simply put, it's to move the blue-greenish block off the right side of the grid. You clear the path by moving all the other pieces around as necessary. Each piece can only slide horizontally or vertically, depending on its orientation (they move along their longer dimension).
    - severine 7y ago
      Haha cool! I'm on puzzle 5 with a lousy record, thanks for the fun.
      - severine 7y ago
        Puzzle 10, 5 elevens :)
japhyr 7y ago
I would like to build an app that's a series of games, that are all related. I want to use the freemium model, with a one-time payment. No ads, no subscriptions; once you pay, you own the entire game. What's a better model for this? A single app with a one-time IAP; or two apps, where one is free with no ads or IAPs, but there's a link to a separate paid app with no IAPs? It seems there's no way to distinguish easily when you're looking at the App Store whether IAP means a reasonable one time purchase for the full game, or a series of predatory IAPs. So having any IAP at all seems to turn off a lot of people. But I'm not sure two separate apps is the best approach either.
- nubb 7y ago
  The Life Is Strange PC series does something similar. They release in episodes and you can choose to buy one ep, or the whole game upfront. I think they're pretty successful with it but I don't think it would be as successful in mobile games.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  The App Store does list the possible IAPs on the page, so if I see "Full game unlock: $3.99" I'm fine with it. Others may look at "offers IAP" and be turned off< I'm afraid I can't speak for them, but the "demo with IAP unlock" seems like the best of both worlds to me.
- awill 7y ago
  the obvious downside is to the consumer. For apps with IAP, pricing is almost always confusing. You often have to dig through comments. 2, IAPs don't allow the family account to work. I love buying premium games and having them work on all our family's phones.
- fbmac 7y ago
  I hate the one-time premium IAP option, because I lost it in some app after reinstall, and it's not compatible with Android's family library. I'll ignore anything that is shown to have any IAP.
  - cableshaft 7y ago
otikik 7y ago
Nice idea, thanks!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
xojoc 7y ago
Shameless plug: I also made some games built with TypeScript/Phaser: https://xojoc.pw/games2d/ https://xojoc.pw/games2d/ The code is on GitHub: https://github.com/xojoc/games2d https://github.com/xojoc/games2d It's a PWA[1] too, so it can be installed on some OSes. I wrote about the experience here: https://xojoc.pw/blog/experience-pwa https://xojoc.pw/blog/experience-pwa [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...
- VRay 7y ago
  Hey dude, your games look pretty fun, sorry you're getting downvoted here I miss the simple, fun, free linux games of the 90s/00s. And other apps, for that matter. Somehow nowadays everyone thinks that cobbling together an RSS reader or a Solitaire game should entitle them to a permanent passive income or make them into a millionaire CEO
bencollier49 7y ago
You should set up your own game store with only the listed games on it. Would be great.
awill 7y ago
I feel this is a google/apple problem. They need to celebrate and advertise premium games more. Instead, we're stuck in a world where most games are fremium with tons of ads or IAPs, or subscriptions..... It sucks to be a gamer. I've seen some games that are on both Switch and Android. The Android one has ridiculous IAPs, and Switch is a one-time purchase. I get that it isn't the developer's fault. Premium games don't sell well on Android. But it sucks none the less. Remember how Angry birds and Cut the Rope used to be good? Now they're a disgrace, full of video ads. And for most of them you cannot pay a single fee to remove.
- thebigspacefuck 7y ago
  Some games like Churchill Solitaire require you to pay $5 for the game, but then it doesn't unlock all of the campaign, you have to pay $1 for every 25 after that, then you have to pay to UNDO A MOVE or even get a hint. Then daily games are another $5 a month. So much BS even if you want to buy the game.
Zenst 7y ago
The ability to sort by rating alone is a gesture Google lacks, that alone makes this a joy.
csours 7y ago
Its awesome to see kitten game[0] on here! I had no idea it was released as an app. For stuff like this, I'll buy it even if I never plan to play it on the device, to support the creator for the time I've spent on the free version. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nuclearunicorn.kittensgame https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nuclearuni...
anonymousab 7y ago
Reminds me of Honest Android Games.
jedberg 7y ago
I’ve found in most cases putting the phone into airplane mode before loading the game makes them playable. Sometimes you miss out on hints and whatnot but overall it lets me play the game with my kids without worrying about inappropriate ads.
farisjarrah 7y ago
Would you be open to adding other Genre's of applications in there? iPad has no built in Calculater application and it has been a beyond infuriating experience simply finding a non-bullshit one without any adds or anything.
makecheck 7y ago
Measuring popularity is potentially an issue here, since: - Every game’s popularity measure is competing against all other games in stores, which definitely includes all the “bullshit” games (and there are probably way more of those). - One form of “bullshit” is gaming the review system itself, e.g. finding ways to generate thousands of “reviews”. - It is very difficult to get users to submit reviews.
nwsm 7y ago
Columns can only be sorted descending. https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?s=price https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?s=price
- StavrosK 7y ago
  They're actually only sorted in one way, descending or ascending, depending on the column. I aim to fix that soon.
riantogo 7y ago
I would request you to consider web apps as well. I tried submitting http://arcadejack.com http://arcadejack.com but no luck. Here is what I had entered as comment: "Consider this no-bullshit math game to help kids practice math. Free, no iap, no login. Everything is stored locally." Edit: Still super early in dev and pin for "grown up" tab is 1222
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I'm afraid that's next to impossible as it would require too much manual work, but thanks for the recommendation!
ducaale 7y ago
Would a game with ads that can be turned off for free count? Its called Snowpounce and here is a video about its development https://youtu.be/7ZYkCOmF0yc https://youtu.be/7ZYkCOmF0yc Disclaimer: the game is not mine
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Yes, if you can turn them off completely forever, certainly.
tareqak 7y ago
I really, really like this idea 'StavrosK, so thanks for making this site. I contributed the iOS version of Seedship: I played it a few weeks ago, and it had no IAP or in-game currency to speak of [0]. I only have an iPhone, so I cannot test the Android version [1]. I strongly suspect that the answer is no given that the two web versions do not have those things [2][3]. This project did give me follow on idea though that others here mentioned and/or alluded to in this this thread: content blockers for the App Store/Play Store. Apple and Google only check for a number of things when reviewing app submissions: malware checks, conformance with local laws, major performance issues, certain security issues etc. What if a user could download content blockers to block apps that they don’t want to see? Apple and Google get to free themselves of having to break ties between content curation and being a censor. Users who want use apps that are vetted by a third-party of their choosing to achieve some purpose would be able to do so e.g. apps for children. I’m not sure exactly what Apple or Google would have to accomplish this, but I think they could some of their organization app policy logic combined with a few other things e.g. forbidding side-loading, or adding additional content-blocker specific app signatures that an app could optionally have. There is a good chance that this would hurt advertising, so there would be the appropriate and proportional pushback. However, I consider that to be an expression of what the market wants. [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/seedship/id1340497640 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/seedship/id1340497640 [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.johnayliff.seedship&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.johnayliff... [2] https://johnayliff.itch.io/seedship https://johnayliff.itch.io/seedship [3] https://philome.la/johnayliff/seedship/play/index.html https://philome.la/johnayliff/seedship/play/index.html
jlv2 7y ago
Really nice idea! I added a few. But one that I added didn't make it to the list and I don't know why: Spaceteam https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sleepingbeastgames.spaceteam https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sleepingbe... It has no ads. The IAP it has seems to fit your definition of acceptable: it's only cosmetic and goes to support the developer. So my suggestion would be this: include another list of rejected games, which some reason why they didn't meet the criteria for the No-BS list.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Oooh I love Spaceteam, thanks for the submission. Basically, the way it works is that games are automatically added once an hour if they have no ads or iap and are semi-popular, otherwise if you leave a comment telling me why the IAP they have is fine, they go into a review queue. I then eventually review the queue and whitelist the games accordingly. Spaceteam should be up in a few minutes, thanks again!
speeder 7y ago
Are my games eligible? I own a game company named Kidoteca, our target market is small kids so we never put ads or IAP. The closest thing to ads is a section to see our other apps, but it is hidden (requires reading, to figure out how to get to it, while we expect most of our users are kids that can't read).
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Sure, if they have no ads or IAP, check out the guidelines and add them.
apinstein 7y ago
This is great! As a parent I try to screen for good apps but I definitely prefer a database. I’d love to share this with my kids but would prefer a profanity-free site to share...
JohnFen 7y ago
Those are games I might actually try! When I see "in app purchases" in an app description, I don't install the app.
irjustin 7y ago
Man, I miss the days of simple tabled listing, relevant information and scroll. thanks for this!
stevage 7y ago
Strong suggestion: define "IAP" I'm always amazed how many sites like this make wild assumptions about the domain knowledege of all the people that might come across the site. I think "IAP" is "in-app purchases", but just make that clear. And a better statement about what constitutes "bullshit" and whis is the correct definition would help a lot. Also, why not also include mobile web games like 2048?
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Done, thanks! Mobile web games are harder to include because there's no app store to get data from.
tdalaa 7y ago
Huge huge upvote from me. So dead tired of IAP for my 7 year old daughter.. The amount of money wasted on crap in Toca world or similar.. Thank you!
- tdalaa 7y ago
  Please add an "added date" and ability to sort by that date to only see new entries. I've just looked through 10 pages of games. When I come back next time, I want to view only the ones added recently, so I don't have to look at all the same ones again. :-)
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    It's not in the UI yet (because I can't spare a column), but you can get it if you change the URL: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/android/?s=added https://nobsgames.stavros.io/android/?s=added
indigodaddy 7y ago
Nice job. This is awesome.
mjevans 7y ago
Are there more options for a Solitaire game that fit on this list? My retired father could use something familiar (more like the Windows 95 solitaire, minesweeper, and 'mahjong solitaire' tile matching) games that probably still occupy some floorspace in that grey-matter. I'd also like some games that might help both younger kids and the elderly by exercising memory matching, pattern deduction, and basic math skills. It wasn't clear how to pick such titles out of the list.
Can_Not 7y ago
I think you should broaden your categorization logic. One app idea I've never had time to start was to make (basically your project) but with also the intent to help filter by specific attributes like: - offline play - ads - ads removable by IAP - no gambling via IAP - multiplayer - 2 player online (1v1) - 2 player online (co op) - 2 player same device - asynchronous multiplayer (like modern play by email, e.g. words with friends) - not a farmville clone (almost all games trying to catch simcity SEO on android are actually farmville clone shitware). - no paywalls - no pay to win - native of html5 - turn based - real time - board game - 2d - 3d The problem is it's really hard to find good games in the android store because every search result is littered with child gambling addiction shitware, or the specific detail isn't isn't indexed at all anywhere.
casid 7y ago
My contribution is a tower defense I've been working on over the last 7 years and that I'm still regularily playing myself: https://mazebert.com/ https://mazebert.com/ The graphics are pretty bad (I'm drawing them myself, heh), but there's a lot of depth and content to it. There are three optional, one-time in app purchases, where you can tip me with a cookie, beer or whisky and get a cosmetic card in return.
GuB-42 7y ago
I see many games on the list are free with "One-time purchase". I find these to be pretty annoying, at least on the Android Play Store. The concept is good: free demo, you pay for the full game. The problem is that it hides the actual price of the game. Maybe an "actual price" field could be added to the site.
sandos 7y ago
Wow, I was thinking about why its still impossible to find honest games on android! This is just what I need!
sci_prog 7y ago
I made something similar a few years ago although for Android only. playworthy.io

520 points by StavrosK 7y ago

The table that has the game list in it doesn't work very well on my iPhone. I have to scroll horizontally.

Thanks! Awesome idea. My son and I have started our own "game studio" for iOS, and I've submitted our first game, Barrel of DNA: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barrel-of-dna/id1460483070?ls=1 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barrel-of-dna/id1460483070?ls=... One of our main design principles is to charge a fair price and never do any ads, tracking or IAP's. The idea is to be contrary to the vast swathes of crap that is out there...

empath75 7y ago

A bit of ui advice — you can tell what phone I’m browsing on from user agent screen. You should default to showing me the right games right on the landing page.

quaice 7y ago
I personally liked that I could pick. I was browsing HN on Android but wanted to see what games were available for my kids iOS device. I liked that the decision was mine and that it was presented clearly rather than being forced to see a pre-filtered list.
StavrosK 7y ago
Thanks for the feedback, I think it would be better if I let the user choose since I personally want to look at both lists sometimes (or I'm on the PC). Besides, it's very easy to just bookmark the platform you want and go there, but I will consider it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
shakna 7y ago
Parsing the user agent to determine something is, most of the time, a massive mistake. It isn't reliable, and it will frustrate users the moment you get it wrong.

mittermayr 7y ago

Top idea. Really really nice. I recently loaded up a blank Android phone with dozens and dozens of games, pretty much anything I could find for a 12h flight, only to realize most of them were an absolute horror show of IAPs and requiring internet connectivity for no apparent reason. So after you've grown this list (and it already looks amazing, excellent work!) maybe worthwhile considering to add an additional "works offline" flag, including the first start of the game. That would've been amazing to have. Either way — you've cracked the secret: make something people want (and saves them a lot of time).

StavrosK 7y ago
This is a great idea that lots of people have requested, and it's easy to add technically, the problem is in the messaging. The only way I get feedback now is through the "add new game" form, and in that you can tell me the reason for adding the game. However, "works offline" is a nice bit of info rather than a reason to add the game, so I don't exactly know where to ask for that...
- johnrackles 7y ago
  Maybe just include a checkbox where people submit the info?
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Good idea, thanks! I'll add that soon.

franga2000 7y ago

Haven't had time to look through the list, but this is exactly what I've been looking for. While I don't play mobile games myself, my (older) relatives do a lot, but since something like the 10th time a scam ad almost got my grandmother to lose 300€, I no longer install anything with ads on their devices. It took me almost an hour to find a bullshit-free solitaire game in the Play Store. It took exactly 3 seconds here.

StavrosK 7y ago
Thanks, I'm glad you like it! I was expecting to have to curate this list myself and that people wouldn't submit much, but I've found a bunch of amazing games just by reviewing the submissions (including the Solitaire game you're talking about, if I'm not mistaken).
me_me_me 7y ago
The curated list by android team used to be my goto to find some games, but it deteriorated into useless list. All other top playstore list are garbage too. Finding anything good that isn't crippled by predatory practices is downright impossible. I don't mind paying for mobile games but this isn't as profitable as hook-line-sinker micro transaction model. I will give this list a go back home.
Farbklex 7y ago
Damn, this Solitair game isn't available in Germany.
Krssst 7y ago
When I am looking for a no-bullshit app or game on Android, I usually go to f-droid to look for an open source one. It has usually worked pretty well.

aphit 7y ago

Any reason why the Genre filter field is a text input rather than a dropdown? I went to look at the Genres available to see which ones I might like but the only way I can see to do this is by scrolling through the pages to look at the available options.

StavrosK 7y ago
Yes, Apple games can belong in multiple genres and it was easier to do it this way, but I'm probably going to make it a dropdown since it's more usable.
- PenguinCoder 7y ago
  Possibly make it a tag selector for easy multiple selection. You could then leave it a text input that sort of auto completes a tag name and adds it to the search filter
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    That's a good idea, but then I worry that it would narrow the results too much. Not that big a deal, since you can just remove a tag again, but I'll have to play around with it and see.
- throwaway_ocr 7y ago
  A multi-select box for this would be nice. Select2 should be easy enough to implement, as you're already using jquery.
  - teddyh 7y ago
    Even HTML 4.01 had <select multiple>, no jQuery required: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/select https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/se...

tomclive 7y ago

Great idea. I really enjoyed Angry Birds when it first came out and when my children asked about to install it on their devices I said this was fine. I couldn't find the original Angry Birds so installed Angry Birds 2. What an awful convoluted mess it was. Instead of a simple, fun physics-based game it's full of lives, spells, bad level design and in-app purchases.

jmuhlich 7y ago
And it flat out refuses to run without an internet connection to fetch ads!
- lostgame 7y ago
  When the recent Sonic the Hedgehog re-release from SEGA did this I just deleted it off my phone. shrugs
  - kfarr 7y ago
    Same! Instant delete. I hope game publishers start to get the message
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Oops, is it any of these? https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=sonic https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=sonic I was told they only contain DLC.
    - lostgame 7y ago
      The issue is that there is no offline play until you purchase - furthermore SEGA still advertises their own games if you're connected to the internet. Any app, IMHO, that requires to be connected to the internet to play so it can deliver you ads doesn't belong on this list. Sonic 1, 2 and CD at least behave like this atm.
      - StavrosK 7y ago

Nothorized 7y ago

I recently changed my relation with video games. I used to play a lot of FIFA (or Football Manager), which are games who are just here to entertain yourself, but there is no backstory at all. Now I see video games as reading a book, or watching a great movie: focus on the story, the art design, the sound design, and the experience in general. I still play a bit of FIFA, but I reserve it to my social time (even though I find that FIFA create a lot of tensions, while Mario Kart is funnier to play, and the level to be competent is lower). The problem with most of IAP games are that they are in the same category than FIFA or FM. There is little backstory. While paying upfront for a game (on mobile, a dozen of great games exists, and you can play some of them during short period of time like Limbo...) create a sense of connection with the game, because you invest money in it, and you are ready to really invest time in it. On the opposite, IAP are games where the goal is to make you play as much as possible, to pay as much as possible.

StavrosK 7y ago
There are different kinds of IAP, some are free demos and you unlock the full game with an IAP, some let you buy extra content in the form of DLC, some remove ads, and some just want to get thousands of dollars out of you. I call the latter "bullshit" to differentiate from the former, which are OK to me.
- soylentcola 7y ago
  Games that follow the old shareware model (free to try out, choose whether or not to pay for full game/disable ads) are my preference for sure. I don't mind paying $5 (or more) for a good mobile game, but with so much crap out there, it's tough to justify unless I am lucky enough to run across a trusted review or it's something from a developer that has earned my trust through previous offerings. Looking back, the games I buy/unlock tend to be the ones where I get to try them out first. If I play the first 10 levels or 1/5th of the story and really enjoy it, I'm eager to pay in-app to continue the game.
pdpi 7y ago
I'm in a similar place. A corollary to this is: I'm pickier about how the stories are told. Games are neither books nor films, and I'll pay a premium for games that find a way to tell their stories in ways that are distinct from those mediums.

mattcdrake 7y ago

Thanks for making this, really. Phone games seem to be a sort of gateway drug for video games and it's a shame that most of them are so laden with microtransactions and attention-hacks. Anything that can steer people away from heroin-adjacent mobile games toward games with substance is a great product in my book. Nice job.

StavrosK 7y ago
Thank you! I got fed up and made this the other day, after playing Head Ball 2 which is basically "Crack cocaine: the mobile game" in how predatory and insidious it is.
ansible 7y ago
I think it would make a fascinating study on how mobile gaming turned into this, when PC and console gaming (while suffering from some of this) is still viable for people who just want to buy a game and play it without shenanigans.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  I recall hearing back in the day iPhones were newer and dedicated mobile webpages were a functional matter, and the iPhone lacked serious competitors some web storefronts would abuse browser charge higher prices for iPhone browsers because they read it as a signal for more disposable income/willingness to pay more. The "luxury start" for a non-dedicated game device combined with the payment platform intergration of an app store was likely the original sin which turned the mobile game development culture that particular flavor of toxic. Of course that was also probably partly what got them developer buy in to their niche platform - the money.

chrisBob 7y ago

Do you have a way to filter duplicates? I just took a look at the iOS list and there are a few games that are on all 3 of the first 3 pages. I love the idea, and will use this to help find games for our family iPad.

StavrosK 7y ago
Hmm, there should be no duplicates, something is iffy. Do you know which games?
- devaler 7y ago
  I see The Room series of games multiple times.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Oops, that seems to be a pagination problem (they're only in the database once, as you can see here: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=room https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?name=room). I will investigate, thank you. EDIT: iOS games have a rating that's quantized 0.5 apart, so all the 5-star games were sorting unstably. Sorting by "-rating, -reviews" seems to have fixed that (and is more useful), thanks.
    - jldugger 7y ago
      Are you sure about that? You report Bacon the Game as a 5, but https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bacon-the-game/id1413085106 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bacon-the-game/id1413085106 lists it as 4.8 out of 5.
      - StavrosK 7y ago
        Unfortunately, yes: https://itunes.apple.com/lookup?id=1413085106 https://itunes.apple.com/lookup?id=1413085106 However, since that API is very barebones and I'm scraping the page anyway, I'll scrape the rating as well, thank you for the heads up.

cableshaft 7y ago

Clever idea. I'm curious why you decided to allow games with DLC though. That's technically an In-App Purchase. I get it's not a Consumable IAP, but it's still IAP. Also you can probably add just about any modern (i.e. non-Hasbro) board game conversion to this list. Almost all of them charge a fee up front and won't have anything more than some DLC for their expansions. Like Ticket to Ride, Carcassonne, Through the Ages, etc. I'm actually working on a mobile game in my spare time right now, and while I normally like to charge money for them I thought I'd try the IAP route this time, but I wasn't planning on making it anywhere near as obnoxious as most IAP games. Ads you can pay a few bucks to remove, then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design), that's about it. I'm not looking to make all of the money in the world like these big companies are, just hopefully enough to make some side income and maybe eventually switch to making games full time. I tried playing a Jeopardy game recently, and it just bombards you with screens of crap constantly. Here's a screen where you can pay to add an item for a round! Use your items to help you answer a question slightly easier! Oh you won! Let's update your win streak! (or Oh no! you lost, you're about to go to 0 on your win streak, but if you pay, you can keep it up, and you'll get a reward if you keep it going enough!), then here's some special event that earns you some random nonsense for getting a question right! here's a level up screen! here's a screen that pesters you about something else (I don't know, I lost track after awhile). Just on and on, and in your face. I can't believe people will spend money for these stupid win streaks and whatnot. So yeah, I'm hoping mine doesn't come across as obnoxious (obviously it wouldn't qualify for the No-Bullshit list, though). And if it doesn't do well, at least it helped me get back in the swing of making mobile games again (it's been like 6 years). Good luck with your website, it looks nice! If you can add a few extra filters to it, you might have better discoverability than the Apple App Store, which has been too "Winner-Take-All because we refuse to highlight more than a handful of games or give proper filtering options" for forever.

StavrosK 7y ago
> Clever idea. I'm curious why you decided to allow games with DLC though. That's technically an In-App Purchase. I get it's not a Consumable IAP, but it's still IAP. That's why I called it "No-Bullshit Games" instead of "No-IAP games" :P > Ads you can pay a few bucks to remove That's fine by me. > then a couple of consumables that are optional and you can earn during a game anyway if you're lucky, but can buy more if you want (it's a push your luck game, so luck is part of the design) That's where I kind of start to consider the game "bullshit", I want to play and enjoy myself, not have constant FOMO of what could be if only I'd spent some more money. That said, it doesn't sound nearly as annoying as some of the crap I've installed. > yeah, I'm hoping mine doesn't come across as obnoxious (obviously it wouldn't qualify for the No-Bullshit list, though). Oh, I didn't read this far before starting the reply :P I hope so too, and yeah, it probably wouldn't qualify. Good luck with the game, I hope it goes well!

k__ 7y ago

Cool! Sorting by release time would be nice to see new stuff.

givinguflac 7y ago

This is why I’ve embraced Apple Arcade... it’s inexpensive and no games have in app purchases or ads it’s great

splatcollision 7y ago
I would love to hear some news about how the financials for Apple Arcade break down for game developers. I've got an awesome game in development and it's tempting to apply to include it in Arcade, but typically Apple they are super-light on details.
have_faith 7y ago
All they need now is some non-throwaway games.
nottorp 7y ago
Too bad it's not targeted towards gamers :)
- ssully 7y ago
  What do you mean?
  - nottorp 7y ago
    I've taken a look at their launch list and it's 90% casual stuff with very simple mechanics that I'm not interested in. My main entertainment has been video games for more than 30 years so I either need a story, complex systems i can mess with or maybe a reflex challenge. Edit: Say, where can I find a complete list of the games they offer? I just checked their page and they seem very secretive about it. Another sign that it's targeted at parents buying something for the kids to shut them up :)
    - MattRix 7y ago
      Most kids would have a hard time playing Card of Darkness (for example), which is a fairly tough card-roguelike thing. Grindstone is also really good. There are a ton of great games on Apple Arcade. I will completely agree that Apple is bad about promoting it though, they don't really seem to understand how to talk about games at all.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

exikyut 7y ago

This is awesome, but I'm going to forget it exists, so: please take my email address and feed me notifications about when new games get added. (I might want to be notified immediately, weekly, or every N months.) Besides that, some minor nitpicks: - Infinite scrolling would be very nice to have - The ability to sort the columns by clicking the headers (eg, reviews) might be useful - I have some, uh, really old devices here that I continue to use. One is on Android 5. There are probably only like 4 people out there that will appreciate seeing a game's minimum Android version, but they'll really appreciate it - I kind of think surfacing screenshots or description info might be interesting, but that's probably because I'm on 256k slowed internet right now and am loathe to click links (lol) but want to compare/get more info about each game Also: something interesting is going on with the rating filtering. If I type in "4.8" and select Free under Android, I see 3 items; trying "4.7" gets me a total of 6 4.8-rated items.

StavrosK 7y ago
Thank you! > please take my email address and feed me notifications about when new games get added Hmm, that might be a bit spammy, do you have an RSS reader? Maybe I could add a feed. > Infinite scrolling would be very nice to have I had something similar before but people complained that they lost their place when clicking on apps to go to the store. Maybe that's fine now that they open in a new tab, I'll rethink that. > The ability to sort the columns by clicking the headers (eg, reviews) might be useful Yep, that's something I removed when I added the filtering system and that I need to add back, thanks. > something interesting is going on with the rating filtering. If I type in "4.8" and select Free under Android, I see 3 items Hmm, that's odd. I will investigate, thanks!
- exikyut 7y ago
  I never ended up using RSS, but it seems a lot of others do, so perhaps this is a good idea. As for email, considering the general "success" (???) of signup boxes on websites, I get the impression (not having added such a box anywhere yet) that maybe this is the lowest common denominator solution for notifications in non- to semi-technical situations. Maybe a free email solution could be used to test the waters here, with the send rate options limited to every 1-2 months. And perhaps infinite scrolling could be combined with history.replaceState() (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History/replaceState https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History/rep...) to keep the URL in sync.

Marsymars 7y ago

I like this a lot. For a few years now I've wanted something like "No-Bullshit Podcasts" which does the same thing - lists podcasts that are either ad-free or that can be made ad-free via purchase, and that don't require a proprietary player.

HenryBemis 7y ago
All the BBC podcasts are ad-free, but I get them from within the UK. I am not sure if they have ads if served in other countries.
- AndrewStephens 7y ago
  They do have ads outside the UK but they tend to be less intrusive (only at the start and maybe near the end) than other podcasts.
  - JNRowe 7y ago
    For others that are predictable like this, I push my downloads through a script before they hit my player. Back of the envelope zsh example to scrub first and last minute: for f (*.mp3) { mp3splt -d new -o @f $f 1.00 EOF-1.00 } mp3splt¹ doesn't re-encode files, and as such is neither lossy or slow. 1. http://mp3splt.sourceforge.net/ http://mp3splt.sourceforge.net/
- JNRowe 7y ago
  Hmm, at what point do all the trailers for other shows tip in to the advert category? I wouldn't want to try counting how many times I heard a trailer about 13 Minutes to the Moon last year, which I'm picking on specifically because I actually enjoyed it to make the point that the bucket choice can be very subjective.
  - HenryBemis 7y ago
    The Brexitcast doesn't have ads. The Infinite Monkey Cage has a 10-15seconds clip in the end where they promote other science-y podcasts (which I always fast-forward anyway). I also listen to the weekly "SecurityNow", in which out of the 2h there should be at least 10-15mins where Leo reads out his ads. Leo also tries to push SpinRite, but since SR has saved many disks in my lifetime, I gladly listen to that bit (finally we'll have a faster performing version soon-ish).

neogodless 7y ago

I feel dumb so I don't know if it's a UI thing or just my weird brain, but I loaded this page on my phone, on Firefox and and Chrome, and I incorrectly assumed it was just broken. Where was the list of games?! Finally I read "choose your platform" and realized it was saying that not for adding games or any other reason, but to see one of the lists! D'oh!

StavrosK 7y ago
Hmm, I might have to do something about that, yes. Currently it's too much text on that page.
fileeditview 7y ago
You are not alone.. I also needed to visit the site 2-3 times until I realized that the Android logo is the door to the list I am interested in :)

twoquestions 7y ago

Joining the chorus of this being a wonderful idea. Maybe link to Metacritic or other respected reviewers? Thank you very much for this!

StavrosK 7y ago
Thank you! Is there a way to find the Metacritic review automatically from the app ID?
- twoquestions 7y ago
  Doesn't look like it at first glance, if I absolutely had to I'd screen-scrape the advanced search page for the link, which is a less than great way to do it. I donno.
mikepurvis 7y ago
I've previously done some filtering based on whether a game was a PC port. It's much harder to add BS into a game with solid fundamentals, so I expect much more from ports of the Supergiant games, dead cells, oxenfree, etc than games that were created to be native mobile titles. The flipside is that those games might have awkward controls or performance issues or not be well suited to short play sessions. But it might be interesting to have a column linking to the Steam page for games that were ported in either direction.

d4n3 7y ago

Great idea... I don't mind paying for good games, but what i do mind is games that try to squeeze as much money out of you for just playing it, which fits your definition of bullshit games. So unlockable DLC and removable ads are fine, but endless pay-to-win consumables aren't. Sorting by number of reviews would be great - it's a better indicator of popularity than the review score

giarc 7y ago

I echo the others here, Thanks! I have young kids and we let them use tablets on long trips, vacations, airplane rides. Finding games for them is impossible. They are too young to understand when characters, levels, items are locked. It seems like every 2 minutes they get stuck on some ad screen with a hidden X. I just want a game that when I pay $4, I get the full game. It doesn't even have to be a big, intensive game. My kids would be happy with a finger painting game, as long as all the colouring sheets and paint brushes are available.

awinder 7y ago
I don't know how young is young, but finding this PBS app was great: https://pbskids.org/apps/pbs-kids-games.html https://pbskids.org/apps/pbs-kids-games.html No ads, works disconnected from the internet, and games are pretty simple and not driven towards some kind of monetary business system.
celticmusic 7y ago
As an adult I downloaded some tower building game and then eventually realized I had to pay to be able to keep playing it reasonably. It was my first experience ever with pay-to-play. I just deleted it and flat don't play mobile games anymore.
hamaluik 7y ago
Sago Mini might work for you if you’re willing to pay and your kids are the right age: https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sago-mini-world/id874425722 https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sago-mini-world/id874425722
- madoublet 7y ago
  It says it has IAPs.
gregmac 7y ago
Yes, exactly this. I don't have any issue with paying for worthwhile games, but I do have an issue with games that try to continually extract more money from me -- you could spend hundreds of dollars on some of those "free-to-play" type games, and sorry, but the value just isn't there. You often can't even see this until you're into the game already (which I'm quite sure is by design), or read through some of the negative reviews. A 5-year-old who just wants to play that game with the characters they know doesn't understand this, and honestly, it's just easier to avoid entirely.

eps 7y ago

Good coverage, well done! At least for the iOS games. Few more to add: Tiny Bang PDTA (please don't touch anything) <- absolutely awesome btw! Carcassone Tokaido Miracle Merchant Alchemy 2 Supertype Ordinary puzzles Auralux, Auralux 2

eps 7y ago
PS. Feature-wise I think this could use a grouping of game series, e.g. Journey the Down - there are 3 parts, but it'd make sense to show them as a single meta-item.
abnry 7y ago
There are a lot of good board game apps. The only thing you buy in app is expansions to the games.
StavrosK 7y ago
Thank you! Could you add them via the form? That way I can keep the feedback in one place.
- eps 7y ago
  Ah, found the form... but it was on the landing page that serves no other purpose but to forward people to the iOS or Android sections. So there's no real reason to ever go back to it. Perhaps link the form from the actual listing pages?
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Yes, I need to split it off to another page and add an "Add a game" button.

franze 7y ago

Here is my contribution (a webapp, a.k.a. a website) http://lalo.li/lsd/ http://lalo.li/lsd/ coded it years ago mostly drunk on an island in Thailand, I now like to play it again on my iPad with iPencil. Github: https://github.com/franzenzenhofer/lsd https://github.com/franzenzenhofer/lsd (Warning: a single, dependency less CoffeeScript source file)

huhtenberg 7y ago
How is it in any way relevant to OP's project being shown?
- idclip 7y ago
  Social behavior, i wouldn't be too harsh on it. Nice game, it doesnt really take away from the op imo
  - tudorw 7y ago
    Agree, happy to see a list of no-bullshit games go up here, this is a tough crowd so it has to make the grade :)
- somesortofsystm 7y ago
  Its a no-bullshit game, f'shiznit.
- reificator 7y ago
  Presumably because it's a mobile game with no IAP or ads.
joshstrange 7y ago
Reminds me a bit of Jezzball (old game that shipped with windows) [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD6GQJxHh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD6GQJxHh7E
- asdf21 7y ago

Fr33maan 7y ago

No IAP and no ads? How does a game studio should earn money then? Knowing the fact that business model of games are moving to free to play and than players are now reluctant more than ever to pay a decent price for a game but prefer spend 5x more little by little? Do you intend to reverse the trend? Real question, no trolling. How a game studio can make money with a F2P game? Or how can we make money from a free 2 play NoBullshit™ game. Disclaimer: I'm a game developer, I make a MMO F2P mobile game with IAP and ads. EDIT: I'm not trying to discuss why a F2P with IAP and ads is not always a Bullshit game, you guess that I'm trying to do things well.

someone7x 7y ago
You say the business model is moving to F2P but that is only part of the story. In the complete opposite direction we have Kickstarter et al. Now perhaps the “get filthy rich” business model is only sustainable by freemium addiction (they pay 5x!). At this point it’s more about greed/entitlement than than it is starving artists getting their bone.
- Fr33maan 7y ago
  Thanks for your answer. Factually, kickstarter is not a business model, it's a way to get some seed money from future players. Once the game goes out you still need to have a business model. Making a game can be an artist job but it also can be a business which is expected to grow, fast and strong as any business. I found the use of the word "greed" extremely opinionated. Is CEO of Amazon greed ? Greed let suppose that it's accumulating money in a selfish way, which seems to be a pretty bad stuff. I might not understand the nuance as I'm not a native english speaker but I find really strange to link the desire of making money with the "greed" word. You are maybe right, maybe it's only possible to consider video games as a sustainable business with freemium addiction. I really ask the question
  - someone7x 7y ago
    > Strange to link the desire of money with the “greed” word. Is it? I didn’t even go full avarice. There is desire for fair compensation and there is greed. Diluting a product with IAP and Ads is to treat your players like serfs to be squeezed for “LTV”. Imagine buying a car where increasing the fuel economy for the next n hours required an “in-dashboard-payment”? It’s dilution to make money, aka greed.

mangoman 7y ago

Honestly, I wouldn't mind ads if they weren't so obtrusive. a simple ad on a loading screen isn't the end of the world to me. What's annoying is trying to tap a tiny 'x', unskippable video ads, ads that try to fingerprint my device, ads that slow down my machine, ads with volume, time limiting play unless you buy an IAP (when there's no option for just buying unlimited time for a reasonable price) I want game devs to be able to make a living, but there's a difference between game devs who responsibly put in monetization and game devs just trying to squeeze every last cent through deceit and manipulation.

StavrosK 7y ago
I want devs to be able to make a living too, that's why I have ad-supported games on the list, as long as you can disable every single ad with a payment. What I hate is devs seeing me as a wallet to wring as much money out of as possible by preying on my addiction/impulses.
- csours 7y ago
  I love to see games that have one-time payments to permanently remove ads. This lets the creators provide a free-ish demo, but also may provide some residual income. It also allows players with less money support the creators.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    They are in the list, marked with "One-time purchase".
    - vehementi 7y ago
      Can you put that one time purchase price in the price column? So it's not just listed as "free"
      - StavrosK 7y ago
        I don't always know it, unfortunately.

CGamesPlay 7y ago

I like the list! I wish it was more usable on my actual mobile, though. There’s lots of inefficient use of space and strange word wrapping. Good start in any case!

nottorp 7y ago

Sometimes I hate that I can give only one upvote to a story. Back when the iPad 1 was new, I was actually playing games on mine. Then everything turned into a mess of IAP bullshit and now I don't even look at mobile game releases any more. Hopefully this site will help me find something to play.

offsky 7y ago

I built a site that’s adjacent to this idea (www.darkpattern.games). It catalogs the dark patterns found in mobile games. Premium currency and ads are two of them but there are many more. The idea is that you could educate yourself so the dark patterns have less power over you and also you can browse the site to find good games that don’t have dark patterns.

StavrosK 7y ago
That is extremely useful to me so I can define my guidelines better, thank you!
grawprog 7y ago
Thank you for making this. I've used this site before while trying to explain to my friend how Mobile Legends gets kids hooked on gambling and is basically digital crack. That game might as well have used your site as a manual. It is fun though, but damn, the constant and never ending Skinner boxes, gambling, and dark patterns to suck out money and time are over the top. I think that game covers just about every single point on your site.
cableshaft 7y ago
That's a pretty well done site, thanks for taking the time to make it. I don't think that all 'dark patterns' are necessarily always bad, especially after seeing everything that made your list, as you have "Complete the Collection" as an example. While I think that it can definitely be abused and does belong on the list, I do think collecting things can be part of the fun of games for people, and that's been in games pretty much since games moved from the arcades into the home consoles. Like platform games are often 'Collectathons', and one of my favorite games of all time, Yoshi's Island on Super Nintendo, has 5 collectible flowers and 20 red coins (and you have to do it with full health at the end of the level) to get up to 100 points for every single level. One of the things I love to do in that game is try to get the full 100 points in as many levels as possible. Another one is Badges, which is similar to Collections, but you're collecting the completion of goals instead. Personally I loved when Xbox 360 introduced Achievements, and I still wish the Switch offered them. When done right, it can leave a lasting demonstration of how much I enjoyed the game. Of course there's some stupid, grindy, super time consuming garbage that borderlines on player abuse for them, so I agree they qualify as a dark pattern, but I don't think they're inherently or always a bad thing and something game developers should always avoid if they want to make a game that wouldn't make the bad side of your list. A lot of these dark patterns I do think are probably always annoying and a bad experience, though, like "Wait to Play".

bpg_92 7y ago

Awesome website! Great work, it would be nice to have a sort parameter to sort by score or price.

StavrosK 7y ago
Thanks! Yes, I really need to add sorting... I'll do that next, thank you.

aloukissas 7y ago

I love seeing this become a project after seeing the tweet that (maybe?) started it. Good job SK!

StavrosK 7y ago
Thanks! If I remember correctly, that tweet was probably nearer the end, though my threshold for building something after complaining about it is rather low these days
- ryanisnan 7y ago
  Stavros you read my mind with this app. <3
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    <3

zwegner 7y ago

Cool list! I'll throw in one I made for myself and never really showed to anyone. It's a clone of Unblock Me/Rush Hour, but with no ads and undo+redo support. It's only a website since I don't want to bother with app stores (I just save the page to my home screen). https://zwegner.github.io/slidey-blocky-thingy/base.html https://zwegner.github.io/slidey-blocky-thingy/base.html The puzzle variety isn't great, my generation method sorta sucks. I had started to build an exhaustive generator after reading Michael Fogleman's article[1] on it, but haven't finished. https://www.michaelfogleman.com/rush/ https://www.michaelfogleman.com/rush/

severine 7y ago
What's the objective of the game? I haven't played Unblock Me or Rush Hour.
- zwegner 7y ago
  Ah yes, this would be kind of confusing in that case :) Simply put, it's to move the blue-greenish block off the right side of the grid. You clear the path by moving all the other pieces around as necessary. Each piece can only slide horizontally or vertically, depending on its orientation (they move along their longer dimension).
  - severine 7y ago
    Haha cool! I'm on puzzle 5 with a lousy record, thanks for the fun.
    - severine 7y ago
      Puzzle 10, 5 elevens :)

japhyr 7y ago

I would like to build an app that's a series of games, that are all related. I want to use the freemium model, with a one-time payment. No ads, no subscriptions; once you pay, you own the entire game. What's a better model for this? A single app with a one-time IAP; or two apps, where one is free with no ads or IAPs, but there's a link to a separate paid app with no IAPs? It seems there's no way to distinguish easily when you're looking at the App Store whether IAP means a reasonable one time purchase for the full game, or a series of predatory IAPs. So having any IAP at all seems to turn off a lot of people. But I'm not sure two separate apps is the best approach either.

nubb 7y ago
The Life Is Strange PC series does something similar. They release in episodes and you can choose to buy one ep, or the whole game upfront. I think they're pretty successful with it but I don't think it would be as successful in mobile games.
StavrosK 7y ago
The App Store does list the possible IAPs on the page, so if I see "Full game unlock: $3.99" I'm fine with it. Others may look at "offers IAP" and be turned off< I'm afraid I can't speak for them, but the "demo with IAP unlock" seems like the best of both worlds to me.
awill 7y ago
the obvious downside is to the consumer. For apps with IAP, pricing is almost always confusing. You often have to dig through comments. 2, IAPs don't allow the family account to work. I love buying premium games and having them work on all our family's phones.
fbmac 7y ago
I hate the one-time premium IAP option, because I lost it in some app after reinstall, and it's not compatible with Android's family library. I'll ignore anything that is shown to have any IAP.
- cableshaft 7y ago

otikik 7y ago

Nice idea, thanks!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

xojoc 7y ago

Shameless plug: I also made some games built with TypeScript/Phaser: https://xojoc.pw/games2d/ https://xojoc.pw/games2d/ The code is on GitHub: https://github.com/xojoc/games2d https://github.com/xojoc/games2d It's a PWA[1] too, so it can be installed on some OSes. I wrote about the experience here: https://xojoc.pw/blog/experience-pwa https://xojoc.pw/blog/experience-pwa [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...

VRay 7y ago
Hey dude, your games look pretty fun, sorry you're getting downvoted here I miss the simple, fun, free linux games of the 90s/00s. And other apps, for that matter. Somehow nowadays everyone thinks that cobbling together an RSS reader or a Solitaire game should entitle them to a permanent passive income or make them into a millionaire CEO

bencollier49 7y ago

You should set up your own game store with only the listed games on it. Would be great.

awill 7y ago

I feel this is a google/apple problem. They need to celebrate and advertise premium games more. Instead, we're stuck in a world where most games are fremium with tons of ads or IAPs, or subscriptions..... It sucks to be a gamer. I've seen some games that are on both Switch and Android. The Android one has ridiculous IAPs, and Switch is a one-time purchase. I get that it isn't the developer's fault. Premium games don't sell well on Android. But it sucks none the less. Remember how Angry birds and Cut the Rope used to be good? Now they're a disgrace, full of video ads. And for most of them you cannot pay a single fee to remove.

thebigspacefuck 7y ago
Some games like Churchill Solitaire require you to pay $5 for the game, but then it doesn't unlock all of the campaign, you have to pay $1 for every 25 after that, then you have to pay to UNDO A MOVE or even get a hint. Then daily games are another $5 a month. So much BS even if you want to buy the game.

Zenst 7y ago

The ability to sort by rating alone is a gesture Google lacks, that alone makes this a joy.

csours 7y ago

Its awesome to see kitten game[0] on here! I had no idea it was released as an app. For stuff like this, I'll buy it even if I never plan to play it on the device, to support the creator for the time I've spent on the free version. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nuclearunicorn.kittensgame https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nuclearuni...

anonymousab 7y ago

Reminds me of Honest Android Games.

jedberg 7y ago

I’ve found in most cases putting the phone into airplane mode before loading the game makes them playable. Sometimes you miss out on hints and whatnot but overall it lets me play the game with my kids without worrying about inappropriate ads.

farisjarrah 7y ago

Would you be open to adding other Genre's of applications in there? iPad has no built in Calculater application and it has been a beyond infuriating experience simply finding a non-bullshit one without any adds or anything.

makecheck 7y ago

Measuring popularity is potentially an issue here, since: - Every game’s popularity measure is competing against all other games in stores, which definitely includes all the “bullshit” games (and there are probably way more of those). - One form of “bullshit” is gaming the review system itself, e.g. finding ways to generate thousands of “reviews”. - It is very difficult to get users to submit reviews.

nwsm 7y ago

Columns can only be sorted descending. https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?s=price https://nobsgames.stavros.io/ios/?s=price

StavrosK 7y ago
They're actually only sorted in one way, descending or ascending, depending on the column. I aim to fix that soon.

riantogo 7y ago

I would request you to consider web apps as well. I tried submitting http://arcadejack.com http://arcadejack.com but no luck. Here is what I had entered as comment: "Consider this no-bullshit math game to help kids practice math. Free, no iap, no login. Everything is stored locally." Edit: Still super early in dev and pin for "grown up" tab is 1222

StavrosK 7y ago
I'm afraid that's next to impossible as it would require too much manual work, but thanks for the recommendation!

ducaale 7y ago

Would a game with ads that can be turned off for free count? Its called Snowpounce and here is a video about its development https://youtu.be/7ZYkCOmF0yc https://youtu.be/7ZYkCOmF0yc Disclaimer: the game is not mine

StavrosK 7y ago
Yes, if you can turn them off completely forever, certainly.

tareqak 7y ago

I really, really like this idea 'StavrosK, so thanks for making this site. I contributed the iOS version of Seedship: I played it a few weeks ago, and it had no IAP or in-game currency to speak of [0]. I only have an iPhone, so I cannot test the Android version [1]. I strongly suspect that the answer is no given that the two web versions do not have those things [2][3]. This project did give me follow on idea though that others here mentioned and/or alluded to in this this thread: content blockers for the App Store/Play Store. Apple and Google only check for a number of things when reviewing app submissions: malware checks, conformance with local laws, major performance issues, certain security issues etc. What if a user could download content blockers to block apps that they don’t want to see? Apple and Google get to free themselves of having to break ties between content curation and being a censor. Users who want use apps that are vetted by a third-party of their choosing to achieve some purpose would be able to do so e.g. apps for children. I’m not sure exactly what Apple or Google would have to accomplish this, but I think they could some of their organization app policy logic combined with a few other things e.g. forbidding side-loading, or adding additional content-blocker specific app signatures that an app could optionally have. There is a good chance that this would hurt advertising, so there would be the appropriate and proportional pushback. However, I consider that to be an expression of what the market wants. [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/seedship/id1340497640 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/seedship/id1340497640 [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.johnayliff.seedship&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.johnayliff... [2] https://johnayliff.itch.io/seedship https://johnayliff.itch.io/seedship [3] https://philome.la/johnayliff/seedship/play/index.html https://philome.la/johnayliff/seedship/play/index.html

jlv2 7y ago

Really nice idea! I added a few. But one that I added didn't make it to the list and I don't know why: Spaceteam https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sleepingbeastgames.spaceteam https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sleepingbe... It has no ads. The IAP it has seems to fit your definition of acceptable: it's only cosmetic and goes to support the developer. So my suggestion would be this: include another list of rejected games, which some reason why they didn't meet the criteria for the No-BS list.

StavrosK 7y ago
Oooh I love Spaceteam, thanks for the submission. Basically, the way it works is that games are automatically added once an hour if they have no ads or iap and are semi-popular, otherwise if you leave a comment telling me why the IAP they have is fine, they go into a review queue. I then eventually review the queue and whitelist the games accordingly. Spaceteam should be up in a few minutes, thanks again!

speeder 7y ago

Are my games eligible? I own a game company named Kidoteca, our target market is small kids so we never put ads or IAP. The closest thing to ads is a section to see our other apps, but it is hidden (requires reading, to figure out how to get to it, while we expect most of our users are kids that can't read).

StavrosK 7y ago
Sure, if they have no ads or IAP, check out the guidelines and add them.

apinstein 7y ago

This is great! As a parent I try to screen for good apps but I definitely prefer a database. I’d love to share this with my kids but would prefer a profanity-free site to share...

JohnFen 7y ago

Those are games I might actually try! When I see "in app purchases" in an app description, I don't install the app.

irjustin 7y ago

Man, I miss the days of simple tabled listing, relevant information and scroll. thanks for this!

stevage 7y ago

Strong suggestion: define "IAP" I'm always amazed how many sites like this make wild assumptions about the domain knowledege of all the people that might come across the site. I think "IAP" is "in-app purchases", but just make that clear. And a better statement about what constitutes "bullshit" and whis is the correct definition would help a lot. Also, why not also include mobile web games like 2048?

StavrosK 7y ago
Done, thanks! Mobile web games are harder to include because there's no app store to get data from.

tdalaa 7y ago

Huge huge upvote from me. So dead tired of IAP for my 7 year old daughter.. The amount of money wasted on crap in Toca world or similar.. Thank you!

tdalaa 7y ago
Please add an "added date" and ability to sort by that date to only see new entries. I've just looked through 10 pages of games. When I come back next time, I want to view only the ones added recently, so I don't have to look at all the same ones again. :-)
- StavrosK 7y ago
  It's not in the UI yet (because I can't spare a column), but you can get it if you change the URL: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/android/?s=added https://nobsgames.stavros.io/android/?s=added

indigodaddy 7y ago

Nice job. This is awesome.

mjevans 7y ago

Are there more options for a Solitaire game that fit on this list? My retired father could use something familiar (more like the Windows 95 solitaire, minesweeper, and 'mahjong solitaire' tile matching) games that probably still occupy some floorspace in that grey-matter. I'd also like some games that might help both younger kids and the elderly by exercising memory matching, pattern deduction, and basic math skills. It wasn't clear how to pick such titles out of the list.

Can_Not 7y ago

I think you should broaden your categorization logic. One app idea I've never had time to start was to make (basically your project) but with also the intent to help filter by specific attributes like: - offline play - ads - ads removable by IAP - no gambling via IAP - multiplayer - 2 player online (1v1) - 2 player online (co op) - 2 player same device - asynchronous multiplayer (like modern play by email, e.g. words with friends) - not a farmville clone (almost all games trying to catch simcity SEO on android are actually farmville clone shitware). - no paywalls - no pay to win - native of html5 - turn based - real time - board game - 2d - 3d The problem is it's really hard to find good games in the android store because every search result is littered with child gambling addiction shitware, or the specific detail isn't isn't indexed at all anywhere.

casid 7y ago

My contribution is a tower defense I've been working on over the last 7 years and that I'm still regularily playing myself: https://mazebert.com/ https://mazebert.com/ The graphics are pretty bad (I'm drawing them myself, heh), but there's a lot of depth and content to it. There are three optional, one-time in app purchases, where you can tip me with a cookie, beer or whisky and get a cosmetic card in return.

GuB-42 7y ago

I see many games on the list are free with "One-time purchase". I find these to be pretty annoying, at least on the Android Play Store. The concept is good: free demo, you pay for the full game. The problem is that it hides the actual price of the game. Maybe an "actual price" field could be added to the site.

sandos 7y ago

Wow, I was thinking about why its still impossible to find honest games on android! This is just what I need!

sci_prog 7y ago

I made something similar a few years ago although for Android only. playworthy.io