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Extradite him back to Japan. And arrest all that were accomplice to his escape. When did these people think that they are above the law? They made a mockery

Extradite him back to Japan. And arrest all that were accomplice to his escape. When did these people think that they are above the law? They made a mockery of the criminal justice system. And they once again proved that those with money and power are above the law.

jeffrallen 7y ago
National sovereignty is still a thing. If Lebanon thinks that Japan's legal system is not respecting their citizen's human rights, they should not extradite. If Lebanon does nothing within it's own legal system, then you can criticize them if you want for giving rich people impunity.
- aflag 7y ago
  Most countries don't extraditate their own citizens regardless of the crime. I don't even know about a country that would extraditate a citizen in this case.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    It's unusual but Mexico did extradite El Chapo to the US.
  - swarnie_ 7y ago
    Still waiting on Anne Sacoolas, whenever you're ready America.
vxNsr 7y ago
A criminal justice system that wins 100% of the cases it prosecutes makes a mockery of the system. Same way a dictator who wins 100% of the vote.
- blackrock 7y ago
  Criminal prosecutors (District Attorneys) in the United States have a near 100% conviction rate. This is because they selectively choose the cases they want to prosecute. By your logic, are you also saying the United States makes a mockery of the criminal justice system? So if you get convicted of a crime in the US, then you’d better pray to God that it isn’t handled by the DA.
  - fla 7y ago
    The big difference AFAIK is that in USA, most of the cases end up with a deal between parties. In Japan the notion of deal doesn't exist.
    - jacobush 7y ago
      It could be that Japan is lenient and does not prosecute cases which are not cut and dry. I don't know. Anyway I don't know how much you are helping the USA here in your argument. A deal in the US is often like: "Look, kid. With this deal, you get 1 year in prison. If we choose to prosecute, you are looking at 30 years to life. Your call. Remember, you have a [kid|mother|girlfriend]." Who would risk going up in court, even if you maybe didn't even do very much? It's basic economics. The risk is too great that jury is going to hate you, no matter what you did or didn't do. Better take the bargain and cut your losses.
      - raverbashing 7y ago
        The plea bargain for criminal cases (especially for people with reduced access to defense attorneys) is certainly problematic. Settlements, for civil cases, not so much, and I think it's an overall positive.
    - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
      Where the deal is, we don't put you to jail for 50+ years, you agree to be guilty and go for 10 years. With the prospect of ending your life in prision, everyone does a deal.
  - gorgoiler 7y ago
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  I don’t believe the justice of France or USA is any better. Ghosn seems to be discovering how swift the justice is, like in any country. USA has 95% convictions based on plea deals, so the investigation is only complete enough to convince the accused that he is isolated enough in his jail that he won’t be able to build a defense, but the accusation is never formally proved, it’s just the accused who agrees to admit crimes. Examples vary, for example pharmacists who are legally authorized to sell legal cannabis have been convicted because they couldn’t bring proof. In France we have jihadists who get freed, rapists who get away with it because they are recently immigrated and « don’t have the western codes » (true quote from the judge), people who get French nationality after having assaulted a policeman; We also have people in jail for way lighter offenses, but who are public cases with lots of media pressure. Although I’m all for a severe justice system, and process-based justice, I’m not convinced half of the convicts are there with a proven proof from the accusation ; rather, they couldn’t defend themselves.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    It's not swift in France (very slow, actually), and it's not swift either in Japan, apparently. One issue Ghosn mentioned is that his trial(s) was being delayed possibly until next year and beyond with his Japanese lawyer telling him that the whole thing could last up to 5 years. Now, remember that the Japanese judiciary initially wanted to keep him in jail until his trial(s) and that the conditions of his bail were practically 'house arrest' with very limited contacts with his family and the world. If I were 65 years old (as he is) and risked potentially having to stay years in jail/house arrest without trial in a foreign country and then risked up to 10 years in jail after that in a country that has a 99.6% conviction rate I would do whatever I could to get the f# out of there (whether I was guilty or innocent). He had the means to do it and he did it. On a human level I cannot blame him.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    > Although I’m all for a severe justice system Do you have any evidence to support that this is actually a good idea? Or is it just revenge porn you’re after?
- tjpnz 7y ago
  The Japanese criminal justice system doesn't win 100% of the cases it prosecutes. It should also be said that only a relative few even get to that point.
  - josu 7y ago
    Canada: 97% US: 85% https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate
crocal 7y ago
Well, I am no big fan of Gohsn, but judging from the way the Japanese justice system treats suspects, this system deserves to be mocked, rolled in tar and covered with feathers. Ghosn is not asking to escape judgement, he is asking for a fair trial. It’s now pretty obvious no such thing exists today in Japan. Maybe he is guilty, but I find it hard to blame him for escaping, irrespective of his wealth.
- lkramer 7y ago
  I would also love to be able to pick and choose where the trial for my crimes should be held...
  - pintxo 7y ago
    Everyone can, just commit the crime within your preferred jurisdiction. /s
- oefrha 7y ago
  Nice excuse for escaping justice in any jurisdiction that ever existed.
- thonos 7y ago
  There was this AMA on reddit a couple months ago about someone writing about their experience in Japanese detention - https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/cdqx4n/i_spent_20_days_in_japanese_detention_ama/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/cdqx4n/i_spent_20_da... Given how inhumane it is, yeah, I think I would have tried to escape too
ryanlol 7y ago
> And arrest all that were accomplice to his escape. The fuck, why? Not at all obvious that this is illegal, and even if that’s the case it’s not at all obvious that this would be sufficiently illegal to justify arrest (and presumably extradition, which generally requires dual criminality). Would you expect friends helping bail jumpers to be treated like this elsewhere? That’s not usually (ever?) the case.
- droidno9 7y ago
  Harboring a fugitive, obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting [the escape], just to name a few obvious ones. With respect to two US citizens mentioned in the article (and there may be more), they may be extradited should Japan makes the request. The US does have an extradition treaty with Japan and the crimes mentioned above are within the purview of the treaty.[1] [1] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/volume%201203/volume-1203-I-19228-English.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/volume%201203/v...
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    >Harboring a fugitive The federal Harboring statutes do not appear to cover skipping bail (until an arrest warrant is issued). >obstruction of justice Obstruction of justice is a much more complicated topic, but I don't see any statute that would clearly fit this activity. >aiding and abetting [the escape] Would require the escape itself to be a crime in both jurisdictions, punishable with deprivation of liberty of more than one year. IANAL, but I'm curious and able to read. The justice manual on justice.gov is a helpful resource.
    - droidno9 7y ago
      Some specific statutes: - 18 U.S. Code § 1073. Flight to avoid prosecution or giving testimony [1] - 18 U.S. Code § 752. Instigating or assisting escape [2] - 18 U.S. Code § 1071. Concealing person from arrest [3] [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073 [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/752 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/752 [3] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1071 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1071
bureaucrat 7y ago
The fact that the particular "criminal justice system" did not even allow him to contact the media sold me. He can't get a fair trial in Japan because their system is broken.
- jacobush 7y ago
  It's the same in Sweden. You can't have contact with media, family, other inmates, basically anyone except your attorney.
  - Pinus 7y ago
    This does not apply automatically, but it is true that such restrictions are possible, and that there has been criticism that they are applied in too many cases and for too long times.
    - jacobush 7y ago
      Yes, I should have added some qualifier. It's exactly as you say.
mcthrowpants 7y ago
Why don't you read background before knee jerking? Is it that hard to learn why Japan's 'hostage justice' policy is infamous?
ryuukk_ 7y ago
lol, you are either retarded, or got brainwashed deep enough to become a lost cause japan is the bad guy in this story

jeffrallen 7y ago

National sovereignty is still a thing. If Lebanon thinks that Japan's legal system is not respecting their citizen's human rights, they should not extradite. If Lebanon does nothing within it's own legal system, then you can criticize them if you want for giving rich people impunity.

aflag 7y ago
Most countries don't extraditate their own citizens regardless of the crime. I don't even know about a country that would extraditate a citizen in this case.
- philwelch 7y ago
  It's unusual but Mexico did extradite El Chapo to the US.
- swarnie_ 7y ago
  Still waiting on Anne Sacoolas, whenever you're ready America.

vxNsr 7y ago

A criminal justice system that wins 100% of the cases it prosecutes makes a mockery of the system. Same way a dictator who wins 100% of the vote.

blackrock 7y ago
Criminal prosecutors (District Attorneys) in the United States have a near 100% conviction rate. This is because they selectively choose the cases they want to prosecute. By your logic, are you also saying the United States makes a mockery of the criminal justice system? So if you get convicted of a crime in the US, then you’d better pray to God that it isn’t handled by the DA.
- fla 7y ago
  The big difference AFAIK is that in USA, most of the cases end up with a deal between parties. In Japan the notion of deal doesn't exist.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    It could be that Japan is lenient and does not prosecute cases which are not cut and dry. I don't know. Anyway I don't know how much you are helping the USA here in your argument. A deal in the US is often like: "Look, kid. With this deal, you get 1 year in prison. If we choose to prosecute, you are looking at 30 years to life. Your call. Remember, you have a [kid|mother|girlfriend]." Who would risk going up in court, even if you maybe didn't even do very much? It's basic economics. The risk is too great that jury is going to hate you, no matter what you did or didn't do. Better take the bargain and cut your losses.
    - raverbashing 7y ago
      The plea bargain for criminal cases (especially for people with reduced access to defense attorneys) is certainly problematic. Settlements, for civil cases, not so much, and I think it's an overall positive.
  - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
    Where the deal is, we don't put you to jail for 50+ years, you agree to be guilty and go for 10 years. With the prospect of ending your life in prision, everyone does a deal.
- gorgoiler 7y ago
alexis_fr 7y ago
I don’t believe the justice of France or USA is any better. Ghosn seems to be discovering how swift the justice is, like in any country. USA has 95% convictions based on plea deals, so the investigation is only complete enough to convince the accused that he is isolated enough in his jail that he won’t be able to build a defense, but the accusation is never formally proved, it’s just the accused who agrees to admit crimes. Examples vary, for example pharmacists who are legally authorized to sell legal cannabis have been convicted because they couldn’t bring proof. In France we have jihadists who get freed, rapists who get away with it because they are recently immigrated and « don’t have the western codes » (true quote from the judge), people who get French nationality after having assaulted a policeman; We also have people in jail for way lighter offenses, but who are public cases with lots of media pressure. Although I’m all for a severe justice system, and process-based justice, I’m not convinced half of the convicts are there with a proven proof from the accusation ; rather, they couldn’t defend themselves.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  It's not swift in France (very slow, actually), and it's not swift either in Japan, apparently. One issue Ghosn mentioned is that his trial(s) was being delayed possibly until next year and beyond with his Japanese lawyer telling him that the whole thing could last up to 5 years. Now, remember that the Japanese judiciary initially wanted to keep him in jail until his trial(s) and that the conditions of his bail were practically 'house arrest' with very limited contacts with his family and the world. If I were 65 years old (as he is) and risked potentially having to stay years in jail/house arrest without trial in a foreign country and then risked up to 10 years in jail after that in a country that has a 99.6% conviction rate I would do whatever I could to get the f# out of there (whether I was guilty or innocent). He had the means to do it and he did it. On a human level I cannot blame him.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  > Although I’m all for a severe justice system Do you have any evidence to support that this is actually a good idea? Or is it just revenge porn you’re after?
tjpnz 7y ago
The Japanese criminal justice system doesn't win 100% of the cases it prosecutes. It should also be said that only a relative few even get to that point.
- josu 7y ago
  Canada: 97% US: 85% https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

crocal 7y ago

Well, I am no big fan of Gohsn, but judging from the way the Japanese justice system treats suspects, this system deserves to be mocked, rolled in tar and covered with feathers. Ghosn is not asking to escape judgement, he is asking for a fair trial. It’s now pretty obvious no such thing exists today in Japan. Maybe he is guilty, but I find it hard to blame him for escaping, irrespective of his wealth.

lkramer 7y ago
I would also love to be able to pick and choose where the trial for my crimes should be held...
- pintxo 7y ago
  Everyone can, just commit the crime within your preferred jurisdiction. /s
oefrha 7y ago
Nice excuse for escaping justice in any jurisdiction that ever existed.
thonos 7y ago
There was this AMA on reddit a couple months ago about someone writing about their experience in Japanese detention - https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/cdqx4n/i_spent_20_days_in_japanese_detention_ama/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/cdqx4n/i_spent_20_da... Given how inhumane it is, yeah, I think I would have tried to escape too

ryanlol 7y ago

> And arrest all that were accomplice to his escape. The fuck, why? Not at all obvious that this is illegal, and even if that’s the case it’s not at all obvious that this would be sufficiently illegal to justify arrest (and presumably extradition, which generally requires dual criminality). Would you expect friends helping bail jumpers to be treated like this elsewhere? That’s not usually (ever?) the case.

droidno9 7y ago
Harboring a fugitive, obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting [the escape], just to name a few obvious ones. With respect to two US citizens mentioned in the article (and there may be more), they may be extradited should Japan makes the request. The US does have an extradition treaty with Japan and the crimes mentioned above are within the purview of the treaty.[1] [1] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/volume%201203/volume-1203-I-19228-English.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/volume%201203/v...
- FDSGSG 7y ago
  >Harboring a fugitive The federal Harboring statutes do not appear to cover skipping bail (until an arrest warrant is issued). >obstruction of justice Obstruction of justice is a much more complicated topic, but I don't see any statute that would clearly fit this activity. >aiding and abetting [the escape] Would require the escape itself to be a crime in both jurisdictions, punishable with deprivation of liberty of more than one year. IANAL, but I'm curious and able to read. The justice manual on justice.gov is a helpful resource.
  - droidno9 7y ago
    Some specific statutes: - 18 U.S. Code § 1073. Flight to avoid prosecution or giving testimony [1] - 18 U.S. Code § 752. Instigating or assisting escape [2] - 18 U.S. Code § 1071. Concealing person from arrest [3] [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073 [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/752 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/752 [3] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1071 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1071

bureaucrat 7y ago

The fact that the particular "criminal justice system" did not even allow him to contact the media sold me. He can't get a fair trial in Japan because their system is broken.

jacobush 7y ago
It's the same in Sweden. You can't have contact with media, family, other inmates, basically anyone except your attorney.
- Pinus 7y ago
  This does not apply automatically, but it is true that such restrictions are possible, and that there has been criticism that they are applied in too many cases and for too long times.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    Yes, I should have added some qualifier. It's exactly as you say.

mcthrowpants 7y ago

Why don't you read background before knee jerking? Is it that hard to learn why Japan's 'hostage justice' policy is infamous?

ryuukk_ 7y ago

lol, you are either retarded, or got brainwashed deep enough to become a lost cause japan is the bad guy in this story