9 ms·
Family turned a former Freemason temple in Indiana into a home
- justaman 7y agoThose antique pool tables that came with the place could be restored and sold for several thousand dollars. What a steal.
- phkahler 7y agoBut why?
- jerf 7y agoI think the point may just be that the price was pretty aggressive, not that it should necessarily be done. I was also wondering if the pipe organ works, or is close to working. I don't even have an estimate of what that might be worth but it wouldn't surprise me that it alone would be more than what they paid for the place. Again, I'm not saying I would want them to do that, just that that may be pretty valuable on its own. But on the flip side, I can see why they had a hard time finding a buyer. Even were it ready to live in on day one, it would be a project home nevertheless, just to find something to do with the space. You can get similar problems when selling a church; if there isn't another organization of a similar size and similar needs ready to move in, who is really going to buy it, especially for larger churches?
- DanielleMolloy 7y agoThere is an apparently well preserved masonic library inside as well.
- scottlocklin 7y agoI wonder how they heat the place; Indiana ain't the Bay Area. I used to know a guy who rented part of the Alameda former masonic lodge. The architecture was amazing. The guy who bought it got a real steal (I think during the 2000 downturn).
- mmhsieh 7y agoFriend had a modern 20,000 sqft home in Hillsborough CA; monthly utilities are about $1500.
- BubRoss 7y agoThey probably heat it selectively and still pay a lot in utilities. One of the photos of stairs looks like it has a fairly small HVAC so there are likely multiple systems for the whole building.
- wafflesraccoon 7y agoHeating and cooling costs must be a pain point, I wonder if there is an easy way to zone the AC to just a room.
- TACIXAT 7y agoYou can get wall units in some select areas and that should take care of things. If they previously had a house in San Diego they probably aren't hurting financially. I'm jealous of all the space, it almost seems like too much without putting in a gymnasium and skate park.
- cptskippy 7y ago> If they previously had a house in San Diego they probably aren't hurting financially. That's not necessarily true, it really depends on when they bought their home. Housing prices in California have nearly quadrupled in the last two decades. Families that could afford a house in the 2000s are priced out of the market today. If you entered at the right time you could be paying more in property taxes than mortgage, or living paycheck to paycheck with a three figure salary. The article says they bought it outright and used the equity from the sale of their CA home to fund the initial remodeling costs, and they've put an additional $40k into it. The reddit post says they sold their home in San Diego for $700k, which at that price is a sub 2000 sq ft ranch. Just looking at the photos in the article, there don't appear to be hundreds of thousands of dollars in renovations. In fact most of the living spaces shown appear to have been done on a budget. So if we assume the kitchen was the additional $40k in renovation costs, we can assume they didn't get all that much out of their house in San Diego. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say $150k.
- eigenvalue 7y agoMust get very cold in the winters-- I can't imagine what it would cost to heat most of that space. I'm also impressed at how permissive the local zoning rules are. I guess in parts of the country that are struggling economically and seeing population declines, they can't be too difficult. The property taxes are probably super low as well given then very low purchase price.
- gonzo41 7y agoI'm not going to lie, the very first thing i thought about was the rates they'd be paying. And the utilities any problem they have is at a commercial scale. I'd be interesting to see what their insurance looks like too. Either way. Good for them.
- egb 7y ago"It’s not bad at all!! We have 6 separate central a/c units and 8 separate central heating units. We can pick & choose what parts of the building to heat/cool and to varying temperatures. Our highest gas bill this past winter was $330 and that included almost an entire month of subzero temperatures. The building is incredibly well insulated." https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/e4r2ap/my_house_is_a_20000_sq_ft_1926_former_freemason/f9f8baa/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/e4r2ap/m...
- tylermac1 7y agoThat's incredible. My gas bill in the winter for a 100yo house is more than that. Very jealous.
- LeoTinnitus 7y agoWow, that's awesome! Obviously anytime someone looks at this they wanna get cynical immediately (as I did). One thing I'm curious about is the property taxes. I could find it online if I really wanted to so I truly wonder if they took that into consideration. Also the upkeep. If I were them, I would try to rent out a portion of it and then eventually turn it into a rental property.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
- gwbas1c 7y agoI had a similar opportunity when I last moved, but the giant historic downtown structure was over a million dollars, and had some visible deterioration that made me think I'd spend another million in repairs. It also occupied almost the entire plot of land, which for that downtown area, was unusual. On the other hand, if I bought it, I'd have beachfront property in about 50-100 years once the ice caps melt!
- rublev 7y agoWhat a waste of a beautiful space. Could have become a community center or something and had far more impact.
- notjtrig 7y agoOriginal reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/e4r2ap/my_house_is_a_20000_sq_ft_1926_former_freemason/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/e4r2ap/m...
- BlameKaneda 7y agoCool article! I had a wealthy relative who carried her bag with her so she wouldn't have to travel from one side of her house to the other just to get something, and if I lived at this former temple I'd do the same. "Other times, the children use the [movie] room to play hide and seek, and sometimes they invite the 15 to 20 other kids in the neighborhood over to have a Nerf-gun fight." If I were a kid I'd have a blast here.
- zomg 7y agoThe misinformation about Masonry in the article is very unfortunate. The Freemasons are not a “secret organization” — they are organization of secrets. Big difference. Also, this building isn’t a temple, they’re referred to as lodges. I can go on... The Masons are one of the largest fundraising organizations in the world, who started and fund the Shriners Hospitals, as an example. Would have preferred to see a more positive and realistic perspective on the Freemasonry.
- overthemoon 7y agoWhat does the difference between "secret organization" vs "organization of secrets" mean?
- ragebol 7y agoWell, I know they exist, so if the former was a goal, that failed.
- sangnoir 7y agoI don't think they named the "Secret Service" based on its existence being kept secret either - rather, their business is secret. I don't think that was a goal considering how avidly they plaster Masonry symbols everywhere - including on their temples
- skyyler 7y agoActually, the Secret Service was originally an undercover anti-counterfeiting group. I do believe its existence was kept secret for a time.
- sangnoir 7y agoI'm genuinely curious: may you please provide more information about how it was "undercover"? None of the references I've found suggest that knowledge of its existence was kept under wraps at the time of its founding in 1865[1] - it was merely the federal agency responsible for countering counterfeit currency, and that doesn't require secrecy. I suspect the whole 007-like mystique only arose much later - after it was tasked with protecting the president in 1901/2 1. not-so-fun-fact: Lincoln was assassinated while the legislation to create the USSS was awaiting his signature on his desk
- Dumblydorr 7y agoA decade or so ago, my band mate and a few other folk musicians purchased an old temple in Cumberland, RI. After initial estimates of 75k for renovations, they are 200k in and they've done countless hours of free labor. The result? Talisk, Alasdair Fraser, and Hanneke Cassel are all playing there this spring...three of my musical idols! Let's restore and repair our great spaces, the value and community is incredible! Blackstone River Theater is a great example of the cultural value of this investment.
- CalRobert 7y agoThat's pretty cool! Do you have a link to any sort of pictures, etc?
- WhompingWindows 7y agoYes! Can anyone comment on how tough it'd be for the BRT to have an e-reservation system for tickets? Right now, you have to call, leave a message, then they have to call back and confirm...it's not ideal. BRT, Masonic Temple venue: http://www.riverfolk.org/venue-info/ http://www.riverfolk.org/venue-info/ Alasdair Fraser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08zd3hI87bc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08zd3hI87bc Talisk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9481kEyAPM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9481kEyAPM0 Hanneke Cassel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFD1nURfyMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFD1nURfyMU
- wjnc 7y agoEven tiny parties use eTickets over here. I looked one providor up. It uses Eventix.io
- 52-6F-62 7y agoWow that takes me back. In Southwestern Ontario the Odd Fellows and Freemason halls were often rented out by us as teenagers and young adults for shows. That said, we were also often kicked out of them (bunch of dumb, loud kids were we) and did something of a circle between the Masons, Odd Fellows, Shriners, Kinsmen's, and other community halls and then back again over the years. A few guys from Brantford (ON) eventually got sick of getting kicked out and set up a non-profit that was a little more raw and ragged than your friends' efforts, but it was surely equal of passion! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ford_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ford_Plant] It was a great time... Buying one of those halls was a totally prescient move! There's a major venue downtown Toronto that was once a YMCA, aptly named The Great Hall that sounds similar in operation (though I believe it's for-profit?) [https://www.thegreathall.ca/history/ https://www.thegreathall.ca/history/] Thanks for sharing! I love these kinds of stories
- ropiwqefjnpoa 7y agoThat's awesome. Maybe they open a restaurant or something on the lower floors and recoup some money.
- aequitas 7y agoNot a temple, but maybe just as interesting. This guy bought a dismantled nuclear missile silo and documented the process of recovering it and converting it to a house: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd50A5qLv8FemVufSvDgkCQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd50A5qLv8FemVufSvDgkCQ/vid... The channel has been quiet for a year or two but becoming active again this year it seems.
- empath75 7y agoIn the 90s, a large percentage of LSD manufacture in the US took place in an old nuclear missile silo in Kansas.
- thepaperone 7y agothis still will blowwww your mind man.. hehe..
- theklub 7y agoThe Hamilton's Pharmacopoeia episode on this was one of the best of that show.
- vageli 7y agoWhere can one read more about this?
- empath75 7y agohttps://www.atlasobscura.com/places/wamego-lsd-missile-silo https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/wamego-lsd-missile-silo
- citilife 7y agoI nearly did the same thing in my town. Bit more expensive, but there was a roughly 18k-sqft old fraternity house in town. My wife and I considered purchasing it at $400k, we put an offer in at $350k, but it was declined. Another group bought ($390k) it and completed a remodel (estimated $180k) and it's now worth ~$1.25m and it's beautiful. Kind of regret not purchasing it, but it just wasn't in the cards at that price.
- jnwatson 7y agoI won at auction and helped renovate a 90-year-old former sorority house. We started with an estimate of $300k and ended up at over a million dollars. Every time I hear "we should estimate software like we estimate construction", I tell this story.
- 867-5309 7y agoreminded me of the quote "software are like cathedrals: first we build them, then we pray"
- giarc 7y agoI feel like professionals should have completed this job. The picture of the bathroom is really disheartening. All the pipes are industrial looking and the "taps" are ball valves. The sink is a bucket and the tub is a cattle/agricultural wash basin. I suspect the local historical preservation society has limits on the exterior of old buildings but can't do anything about the interior work.
- linuxftw 7y agoI guess you should have ponied up the $89k and fixed it up how you seen fit.
- jxramos 7y agoHa, the presumption of being able to spend money better than others. Maybe they can; but these folks did it like you indirectly point out.
- bobloblaw45 7y agoYou're right...that's an actually bucket they're using for the sink. It's a little embarrassing to look at.
- Bozzz 7y agoThe bathroom is pretty bad, but the other renovated rooms are decent. The kitchen looks great, the kids room is acceptable, and the library is very classy, although I think the desk may be facing the wrong way...
- awinder 7y agoThe kids room looked like an amazing setup, desk + foosball + a kick ass built-in lofted bed? My inner child was thinking of all that space for the activities
- BubRoss 7y agoThe whole thing sold for the price of tiny ranch house in a bad neighborhood, the fact that anyone is putting effort into it is positive.
- awb 7y agoEven in rural Indiana isn't $89k for a 20k sq.ft. home really cheap?
- ptah 7y agothat was my first thought. the upkeep will be expensive though
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Touche 7y agoYeah but this isn't a home. Most people don't want to buy a 20k masonic template and live it in. Given what the upkeep must be, your most likely buyers probably want to rent out the space to businesses. So it's priced according to what the demand is, which is apparently small.
- SavageBeast 7y agoI grew up in that part of the world and I can safely say nobody there has $89K laying around to make a purchase of this type (renovations aside, imagine heating the place). The absence of qualified buyers drive prices around there. People who have never been to the rural areas of the midwest simply have no perspective on the economics of that region. Its not impossible that the equity from their San Diego home sale made them the richest people in the county (I don't recall the town being mentioned in the article).
- OrangeMango 7y ago> richest people in the county Any farmer who has land passed down through generations is a multi-millionaire. A good friend of mine in high school lived on about 600 acres. His family made almost $10 million selling half of it to Walmart.
- triceratops 7y agoSurely the location of that land matters? Not every farm is worth so much, right?
- zeeone 7y agoHow is this building $89k and not $8.9M?
- sabujp 7y ago> California Masonic membership is open to men age 18 or older who meet the qualifications and standards of character and intention, and who believe in a Supreme Being no one's perfect and I don't believe
- cdubzzz 7y agoTangentially related, anyone in the PNW who doesn’t already know about McMenamins should check out their hotels. They mostly buy old historic buildings and remodel them as hotels/restaurants/pubs/etc. while maintaining interesting aspects of the building histories. E.g. we have stayed at the Kennedy School in Portland where our room was a converted class room. https://www.mcmenamins.com/stay https://www.mcmenamins.com/stay
- geocrasher 7y agoI discovered them a couple of years ago when I went to see a movie (The Greatest Showman) at McMenamins in Centralia, WA. Wow. I twas like going back in time. Oddly, one of my favorite things was the bathroom. Original porcelain from the 1920's or so, and the urinals didn't flush. Instead, wastewater from the sink drained into the urinals and flushed them. Very efficient!
- mynegation 7y agoToronto has a building [1] of a very similar size and internal layout that is used as a concert venue and offices for some IT company with conspicuously generic name. The list of people that performed there looks like Rock-n-Roll Hall of fame and it was one of the most entertaining places to visit during Doors Open Toronto. During the visit I realized that graffiti-style artwork inside was done by someone I know. [1] https://www.888yonge.com/ https://www.888yonge.com/
- otterpro 7y agoThe buyer says that the house seems "haunted" and that there are "paranormal activities". Haunted houses typically have lower values on the housing market, as demonstrated by horror movies like The Shining, etc. All jokes aside, it would've been better to convert it for commercial use, such as an office, rather than for it to be a residential unit, since all that empty space seems to be wasted.
- tartoran 7y agoOr an event hall, or a quirky hotel of sorts
- slap 7y agoThis is the family blog, about the renovation : https://freemasontomansion.wordpress.com/ https://freemasontomansion.wordpress.com/
- motohagiography 7y agoIn Ontario, one of the more popular things to do is convert one room schoolhouses into homes. The same is done with churches, so it makes sense that former fraternity assets are as well. These organizations used to form the fabric of a civil society that persisted underneath the volatility of governments and economic concerns. The liberal aspect of the group created neutral ground for people with different religious convictions to form a civil community outside their churches and temples. When you look at the historical impact of that organization, the best summary I've heard is it has served as a check on hegemony, as the villains of history seem to be the ones most concerned about them.
- jxramos 7y agoThere's some commentary here and with the focus on this article being an old empty temple. Are there a lot of these abandoned temples around? Are these fraternities in decline or something? What was the height of their popularity?
- hokumguru 7y agoHistorically the peaks of Freemasonry in America were around the time of the revolutionary war, civil war, and two world wars. Being a fraternity first and foremost - soldiers abroad found brotherhood and companionship together in freemasonry - their numbers soared around this time as new initiates joined. Since the 70's or so the fraternity has seen a steady decline of membership not to dissimilar to the decline of religious institutions.
- frankus 7y agoOne of the tricky things with a project like this is that banks are very leery of underwriting a mortgage on something that isn't a residence (I ran into this when I briefly flirted with buying an old fire station). Usually the best you can do is a construction loan at a fairly high interest rate. But if you have California equity and are buying at Rust Belt prices (as in this case) you can just pay cash.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago> They bought it in full for $89,000, so they do not have a mortgage and are debt-free after using the money they got from selling their San Diego home. The equity they earned from that sale funded most of the up-front remodel costs at the temple. I suppose that says something about California real estate prices.