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I completely disagree with this prediction. People have been betting against large banks for awhile with record investment in challenger banks, but both Citi an

by tempsy 7y ago

I completely disagree with this prediction. People have been betting against large banks for awhile with record investment in challenger banks, but both Citi and JP Morgan recorded their most profitable quarter in their entire history this morning. And most of the big banks have actually invested very heavily in their IT over the past decade. If you are complaining about their customer service, don't hold your breath when it comes to startup bank customer service. Chime, the largest funded neo bank in the US, had a 3 day outage in the fall when nothing worked (app, transactions, ATM) and could not handle the volume of calls or chat requests at all. People were literally stuck at the grocery store or gas station. That can't be the future of finance, either.

jbverschoor 7y ago
Startup banks (at least 4 of them) have a chat (which needs to work, otherwise tough luck). The chat is operated by unqualified, anonymous people, who's rotate even within the same conversation. They're complete shit. Esp. if your transfer does reach the counterparty...
lol768 7y ago
>but both Citi and JP Morgan recorded their most profitable quarter in their entire history this morning. Does this say anything about their ability to provide a decent user experience, or good customer support though? A few years ago, I had no choice but to use a bank like RBS for my business account. It was rife with unreasonable fees, a terrible website and a ridiculous sign-up process. They got my custom because there was no alternative. Monzo, Starling and e.g. Tide are doing pretty well here as a result of the poor show that other banks have been putting on for years. >If you are complaining about their customer service, don't hold your breath when it comes to startup bank customer service. Chime, the largest funded neo bank in the US, had a 3 day outage in the fall when nothing worked (app, transactions, ATM) and could not handle the volume of calls or chat requests at all. People were literally stuck at the grocery store or gas station. That can't be the future of finance, either. Not all challenger banks are like this, though. I've found Monzo to be much, much more reliable that the various incumbents in the UK (who don't operate a status page, don't inform customers properly when things are broken and _still_ schedule multiple-hour maintenance windows every year when BST begins/ends). Customer support can be variable, unfortunately, but I think this is a problem which has arisen mostly as the bank has grown. It's still better, for me at least, than a legacy bank.
- tempsy 7y ago
  I assume you're not US-based. I'm a long time Chase customer and am completely happy with the user experience and customer service. I've found the Citi, Amex, and Capital One digital experiences to also be good to very good. The app is fast with an intuitive UI and does the job. If you don't believe me check out the app store rating. My understanding is banks outside the US have not invested as heavily in their IT, and totally understand why challenger banks in other countries might have more success there. I've used in the HSBC app once, for example, and it's slow and terrible.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Same experience here for Chase and BofA. BofA is a bit trigger-happy at detecting fraud when I try to buy videogames or computer parts, but otherwise no issues in over a decade.
  - taylortrusty 7y ago
    Fully agree. My experiences with Chase as a small business and personally have been great for over a decade. Local branch bankers get things done if need be; their email support is great and prompt; the app on iOS is fast and works well; transactions clear quickly; ATMs are modern and do everything I need. There's a value to in-person banking when you need it, though I think retail banking has become too prevalent in NYC. No complaints otherwise.
  - manacit 7y ago
    I agree with you completely -- I switched from a local CU to Chase because the experience was, almost uniformly, better: - The iOS app, website and other digital tools are significantly better. My local CU's app is some whitelabeled third party app that barely works - With nationwide set of branches, I'm able to get individualized support for whatever I need in most cities in the USA - Chase offers significantly more functionality in general - wiring money via their website, longer transaction history retention, etc etc OTOH, my local CU's customer support is horrendous, most of their branches don't even deal with cash, and if you're outside of the metro they're based in, you're SOL. I've experienced the same with Amex, Capital One, etc. They were slow to ramp up, but their digital properties and tools are excellent in 2020.
hinkley 7y ago
This is my prediction: People don't like feeling trapped. If they have an out they might take it, or they might not. It depends on the context. I've mentioned a few times recently a particularly memorable job that went from pretty great to head on fire. The moment I decided to start looking for a new job, my stress levels went way down. Even though I didn't even look at job openings or my resume for another three weeks. I ended up staying more than 6 months, in better spirits than I'd been in a couple years. I also discovered at some point that verbalizing that you have a Plan B makes it easier for coworkers to swallow your Plan A. They have a gut feeling that it won't work and it makes them feel better that contingencies are in place. And I have some suspicions that much of the ornateness we accumulate in code is hitting that same button in your brain. We can always swap this out later.
oarsinsync 7y ago
> I completely disagree with this prediction. People have been betting against large banks for awhile with record investment in challenger banks, but both Citi and JP Morgan recorded their most profitable quarter in their entire history this morning. Are you sure those profits are in their retail banking sectors, or in their investment and corporate banking?
- tempsy 7y ago
  literally everything. banks are making money hand over fist right now.
- jdmichal 7y ago
  Looking at JPMorgan Chase's 4Q19 net incomes (numbers in millions): All = $8,5xx CCB = $4,231 (50%) CIB = $2,927 (34%) CB = $ 938 (11%) AWM = $ 785 ( 9%) Those are, in order: * Consumer and Community Banking, aka Chase retail banking. * Corporate and Investment Bank, aka JP Morgan investment banking. * Commercial Banking. * Asset and Wealth Management. (NOTE: The extra 4% above is accounted for in corporate overhead.)
empath75 7y ago
BlackBerry made massive profits after the iPhone was released.

by tempsy 7y ago

jbverschoor 7y ago

Startup banks (at least 4 of them) have a chat (which needs to work, otherwise tough luck). The chat is operated by unqualified, anonymous people, who's rotate even within the same conversation. They're complete shit. Esp. if your transfer does reach the counterparty...

lol768 7y ago

>but both Citi and JP Morgan recorded their most profitable quarter in their entire history this morning. Does this say anything about their ability to provide a decent user experience, or good customer support though? A few years ago, I had no choice but to use a bank like RBS for my business account. It was rife with unreasonable fees, a terrible website and a ridiculous sign-up process. They got my custom because there was no alternative. Monzo, Starling and e.g. Tide are doing pretty well here as a result of the poor show that other banks have been putting on for years. >If you are complaining about their customer service, don't hold your breath when it comes to startup bank customer service. Chime, the largest funded neo bank in the US, had a 3 day outage in the fall when nothing worked (app, transactions, ATM) and could not handle the volume of calls or chat requests at all. People were literally stuck at the grocery store or gas station. That can't be the future of finance, either. Not all challenger banks are like this, though. I've found Monzo to be much, much more reliable that the various incumbents in the UK (who don't operate a status page, don't inform customers properly when things are broken and _still_ schedule multiple-hour maintenance windows every year when BST begins/ends). Customer support can be variable, unfortunately, but I think this is a problem which has arisen mostly as the bank has grown. It's still better, for me at least, than a legacy bank.

tempsy 7y ago
I assume you're not US-based. I'm a long time Chase customer and am completely happy with the user experience and customer service. I've found the Citi, Amex, and Capital One digital experiences to also be good to very good. The app is fast with an intuitive UI and does the job. If you don't believe me check out the app store rating. My understanding is banks outside the US have not invested as heavily in their IT, and totally understand why challenger banks in other countries might have more success there. I've used in the HSBC app once, for example, and it's slow and terrible.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Same experience here for Chase and BofA. BofA is a bit trigger-happy at detecting fraud when I try to buy videogames or computer parts, but otherwise no issues in over a decade.
- taylortrusty 7y ago
  Fully agree. My experiences with Chase as a small business and personally have been great for over a decade. Local branch bankers get things done if need be; their email support is great and prompt; the app on iOS is fast and works well; transactions clear quickly; ATMs are modern and do everything I need. There's a value to in-person banking when you need it, though I think retail banking has become too prevalent in NYC. No complaints otherwise.
- manacit 7y ago
  I agree with you completely -- I switched from a local CU to Chase because the experience was, almost uniformly, better: - The iOS app, website and other digital tools are significantly better. My local CU's app is some whitelabeled third party app that barely works - With nationwide set of branches, I'm able to get individualized support for whatever I need in most cities in the USA - Chase offers significantly more functionality in general - wiring money via their website, longer transaction history retention, etc etc OTOH, my local CU's customer support is horrendous, most of their branches don't even deal with cash, and if you're outside of the metro they're based in, you're SOL. I've experienced the same with Amex, Capital One, etc. They were slow to ramp up, but their digital properties and tools are excellent in 2020.

hinkley 7y ago

This is my prediction: People don't like feeling trapped. If they have an out they might take it, or they might not. It depends on the context. I've mentioned a few times recently a particularly memorable job that went from pretty great to head on fire. The moment I decided to start looking for a new job, my stress levels went way down. Even though I didn't even look at job openings or my resume for another three weeks. I ended up staying more than 6 months, in better spirits than I'd been in a couple years. I also discovered at some point that verbalizing that you have a Plan B makes it easier for coworkers to swallow your Plan A. They have a gut feeling that it won't work and it makes them feel better that contingencies are in place. And I have some suspicions that much of the ornateness we accumulate in code is hitting that same button in your brain. We can always swap this out later.

oarsinsync 7y ago

> I completely disagree with this prediction. People have been betting against large banks for awhile with record investment in challenger banks, but both Citi and JP Morgan recorded their most profitable quarter in their entire history this morning. Are you sure those profits are in their retail banking sectors, or in their investment and corporate banking?

tempsy 7y ago
literally everything. banks are making money hand over fist right now.
jdmichal 7y ago
Looking at JPMorgan Chase's 4Q19 net incomes (numbers in millions): All = $8,5xx CCB = $4,231 (50%) CIB = $2,927 (34%) CB = $ 938 (11%) AWM = $ 785 ( 9%) Those are, in order: * Consumer and Community Banking, aka Chase retail banking. * Corporate and Investment Bank, aka JP Morgan investment banking. * Commercial Banking. * Asset and Wealth Management. (NOTE: The extra 4% above is accounted for in corporate overhead.)

empath75 7y ago

BlackBerry made massive profits after the iPhone was released.