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Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. And if you have anything shy of a 4.0, you're unlikely to get in. Ask me

Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. And if you have anything shy of a 4.0, you're unlikely to get in. Ask me how I know. :( So, if you have good chances of getting in after high school to such programs, do it. There's no reason to risk your future on community college. Professors at all colleges are a gamble and even a slight misstep can ruin your chances of getting into a good program. (which then leads to better chances of getting good jobs - if you care) That said, if you don't get into the programs after high school then community college could be fine.

docbrown 7y ago
> Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. What type of “top ranked” program are we talking about here? If parent is trying to get into MIT after a long educational hiatus, then, ok, maybe it’d be a bit difficult. But if they’re hoping to obtain an EE or CS degree (for example), these programs—in the states—are usually accredited and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program. There seems to be this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better. Don’t get me wrong, a social science education from Yale or Brown will differ greatly then one at a state school but that is a given. Same goes for the select engineering programs or CS—think Cal, Georgia, MIT, etc.—but something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements so your end goal is practically the same no matter what your alma mater is.
- bradlys 7y ago
  Public schools are what I'm talking about - the ones people would actually transfer to. (UCB, UCLA, UW (where I went), UT Austin - all top ranked CS program schools) Private is much worse. You'll probably never get into a top private school unless you're transferring from another top tier institution - most people I saw transferring into such schools were already from other top tier schools. Stanford, for instance, accepted 27 transfer students last year. 27 - that's it. Same story for many other prestigious colleges. The point of going to a top program isn't that it's a better program academically (maybe it is - maybe it isn't). It's about the resume and other things the university offers. Some of the schools help place you in co-op programs, have catered career fairs, and much more. They can set you far apart from other "lower tier" schools and make you stand out in the overwhelming crowd of new grads. It's mostly about signalling more than anything.
  - oneplane 7y ago
    Sometimes I wonder if signaliing is the real 'value' they offer that people seem to want to work for, the problem isn't as much the education as it is.. everything else.
    - chii 7y ago
      knowledge is knowledge, no matter where you obtained it. However, the connections you make during college is sometimes quite important, as they are the windows of opportunity that aren't available to the non-connected. E.g., if you have a friend in the same class, then they are more likely to refer you to their company if you are in need of a job (later in life). Or if they are already rich and are investors, you are more likely to be considered to be confounders or business partners.
      - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        Shouldn't you learn economics instead of CS if you want to run business?
        pinkfoot 7y ago
        Steve Jobs studied English. Ran multiple companies.
        GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        Consider many people here, who regularly complain about incompetent management.
        jbc1 7y ago
        If you want to run an already very large business your best bet is to go in to management consulting. In that case what you study is less important than getting top grades at a top school and interviewing like a champ. If you want to run a business that isn't but has the potential to maybe be very large then easiest way to do that is to build your own and CS has a very low bar for entrepreneurial activity. If you just want to run any business then no degree necessary. Just work in food service and treat it like a career. Maybe do a bookkeeping course. You'll get to manage a restaurant eventually.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program Did you know that, for example, Stanford’s CS program is not accredited? Do you think people shouldn’t entertain the idea of going to Stanford for CS?! > something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements From what I know accreditation sets a super low bar because it’s all above that bar. What colleges teach varies massively. You definitely can go to a lower ranked but still accredited college and come out with massive gaps in your knowledge compared to an unaccredited program like Stanford that would push you much more.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  > this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better I don’t think that any of us think that, but there are people doing the hiring that do think that. There are jobs you can get if you graduated from MIT that you can’t get if you graduated from Idaho State. Mr. Idaho State will find a job, and it will be a good job, but Mr. MIT will find a better one.
yuliyp 7y ago
You can be perfectly successful without a degree from a top school.
- bradlys 7y ago
  Sure - I'm not disagreeing. In the same way that you don't have to start rich to end up being rich. I'm just saying you will likely have a more difficult time getting to the destination.
  - almost_usual 7y ago
    If someone spent as much time going to a university as teaching themselves how to program and contributing to an open source project they’d be able to apply to most places. I’d actually argue there is more value in being a well known open source contributor than where you went to school in our industry. There are way more candidates that went to X great university than have contributed to X great open source project.
    - commandlinefan 7y ago
      > If someone spent as much time going to a university as teaching themselves how to program and contributing to an open source project they’d be able to apply to most places That's irresponsibly false. Just because you want something to be true, don't repeat it as if it were a fact.
      - Gunax 7y ago
        I actually agree with it. For all of the criticisms tech receives for being elite and sexist--they are actually quite open to diversity of background. Forget about top schools for a second--there are plenty of people at top companies who did not even attend university at all. Compare that to the management consultant industry where one's school is practically the beginning and end of their resume. Of course the reason most students don't contribute to FOSS is that it's hard. Very few just-out-of-high-schoolers could really make inroads to contributing. Colleges and universities are helping hands that guide them to where they need to go.
geomark 7y ago
There are (or were, it was a while ago) rare exceptions. The community college I went to had a deal with CalTech that if a student aced all 4 semester of physics at the CC they did not have to take some of the entrance exams. So it was actually easier to get in.
akhilcacharya 7y ago
I went to a CC during high school and only got into my two state schools - NC State and UNC Chapel Hill. Are you saying I ruined my chances of something? Because if not you should probably rephrase.
- fingerlocks 7y ago
  OP was specifically discussing transfer students, not high-schoolers in accelerated CC programs.
  - akhilcacharya 7y ago
    Ultimately the net effect is identical, since I did get a CC degree out of it.
    - mav3rick 7y ago
      None of those are elite schools.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. And if you have anything shy of a 4.0, you're unlikely to get in. That...depends. There are a number of very highly ranked public universities with transfer agreements with same-state community colleges, in which case it's not all that difficult.
- bradlys 7y ago
  UCLA and UCB do not have those agreements. I don't know if UT Austin has the agreement anymore (they had some agreement about being in the top 10% of your high school or something). UW has no such agreement either. Most of the high ranked public schools afaik have gotten rid of such things because they are impacted heavily on all their programs.
  - compuguy 7y ago
    It does seem to be a trend that state universities are ending transfer agreements to 4 year universities. George Mason University ended their transfer agreement with NVCC 5-ish years ago.

docbrown 7y ago

> Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. What type of “top ranked” program are we talking about here? If parent is trying to get into MIT after a long educational hiatus, then, ok, maybe it’d be a bit difficult. But if they’re hoping to obtain an EE or CS degree (for example), these programs—in the states—are usually accredited and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program. There seems to be this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better. Don’t get me wrong, a social science education from Yale or Brown will differ greatly then one at a state school but that is a given. Same goes for the select engineering programs or CS—think Cal, Georgia, MIT, etc.—but something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements so your end goal is practically the same no matter what your alma mater is.

bradlys 7y ago
Public schools are what I'm talking about - the ones people would actually transfer to. (UCB, UCLA, UW (where I went), UT Austin - all top ranked CS program schools) Private is much worse. You'll probably never get into a top private school unless you're transferring from another top tier institution - most people I saw transferring into such schools were already from other top tier schools. Stanford, for instance, accepted 27 transfer students last year. 27 - that's it. Same story for many other prestigious colleges. The point of going to a top program isn't that it's a better program academically (maybe it is - maybe it isn't). It's about the resume and other things the university offers. Some of the schools help place you in co-op programs, have catered career fairs, and much more. They can set you far apart from other "lower tier" schools and make you stand out in the overwhelming crowd of new grads. It's mostly about signalling more than anything.
- oneplane 7y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if signaliing is the real 'value' they offer that people seem to want to work for, the problem isn't as much the education as it is.. everything else.
  - chii 7y ago
    knowledge is knowledge, no matter where you obtained it. However, the connections you make during college is sometimes quite important, as they are the windows of opportunity that aren't available to the non-connected. E.g., if you have a friend in the same class, then they are more likely to refer you to their company if you are in need of a job (later in life). Or if they are already rich and are investors, you are more likely to be considered to be confounders or business partners.
    - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
      Shouldn't you learn economics instead of CS if you want to run business?
      - pinkfoot 7y ago
        Steve Jobs studied English. Ran multiple companies.
        GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        Consider many people here, who regularly complain about incompetent management.
      - jbc1 7y ago
        If you want to run an already very large business your best bet is to go in to management consulting. In that case what you study is less important than getting top grades at a top school and interviewing like a champ. If you want to run a business that isn't but has the potential to maybe be very large then easiest way to do that is to build your own and CS has a very low bar for entrepreneurial activity. If you just want to run any business then no degree necessary. Just work in food service and treat it like a career. Maybe do a bookkeeping course. You'll get to manage a restaurant eventually.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program Did you know that, for example, Stanford’s CS program is not accredited? Do you think people shouldn’t entertain the idea of going to Stanford for CS?! > something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements From what I know accreditation sets a super low bar because it’s all above that bar. What colleges teach varies massively. You definitely can go to a lower ranked but still accredited college and come out with massive gaps in your knowledge compared to an unaccredited program like Stanford that would push you much more.
commandlinefan 7y ago
> this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better I don’t think that any of us think that, but there are people doing the hiring that do think that. There are jobs you can get if you graduated from MIT that you can’t get if you graduated from Idaho State. Mr. Idaho State will find a job, and it will be a good job, but Mr. MIT will find a better one.

yuliyp 7y ago

You can be perfectly successful without a degree from a top school.

bradlys 7y ago
Sure - I'm not disagreeing. In the same way that you don't have to start rich to end up being rich. I'm just saying you will likely have a more difficult time getting to the destination.
- almost_usual 7y ago
  If someone spent as much time going to a university as teaching themselves how to program and contributing to an open source project they’d be able to apply to most places. I’d actually argue there is more value in being a well known open source contributor than where you went to school in our industry. There are way more candidates that went to X great university than have contributed to X great open source project.
  - commandlinefan 7y ago
    > If someone spent as much time going to a university as teaching themselves how to program and contributing to an open source project they’d be able to apply to most places That's irresponsibly false. Just because you want something to be true, don't repeat it as if it were a fact.
    - Gunax 7y ago
      I actually agree with it. For all of the criticisms tech receives for being elite and sexist--they are actually quite open to diversity of background. Forget about top schools for a second--there are plenty of people at top companies who did not even attend university at all. Compare that to the management consultant industry where one's school is practically the beginning and end of their resume. Of course the reason most students don't contribute to FOSS is that it's hard. Very few just-out-of-high-schoolers could really make inroads to contributing. Colleges and universities are helping hands that guide them to where they need to go.

geomark 7y ago

There are (or were, it was a while ago) rare exceptions. The community college I went to had a deal with CalTech that if a student aced all 4 semester of physics at the CC they did not have to take some of the entrance exams. So it was actually easier to get in.

akhilcacharya 7y ago

I went to a CC during high school and only got into my two state schools - NC State and UNC Chapel Hill. Are you saying I ruined my chances of something? Because if not you should probably rephrase.

fingerlocks 7y ago
OP was specifically discussing transfer students, not high-schoolers in accelerated CC programs.
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Ultimately the net effect is identical, since I did get a CC degree out of it.
  - mav3rick 7y ago
    None of those are elite schools.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. And if you have anything shy of a 4.0, you're unlikely to get in. That...depends. There are a number of very highly ranked public universities with transfer agreements with same-state community colleges, in which case it's not all that difficult.

bradlys 7y ago
UCLA and UCB do not have those agreements. I don't know if UT Austin has the agreement anymore (they had some agreement about being in the top 10% of your high school or something). UW has no such agreement either. Most of the high ranked public schools afaik have gotten rid of such things because they are impacted heavily on all their programs.
- compuguy 7y ago
  It does seem to be a trend that state universities are ending transfer agreements to 4 year universities. George Mason University ended their transfer agreement with NVCC 5-ish years ago.