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Just FYI state schools have generally have good resident tuition rates. You can get a 4 year EE or CS degree for less than $40k (cost of a nice car these days).

Just FYI state schools have generally have good resident tuition rates. You can get a 4 year EE or CS degree for less than $40k (cost of a nice car these days). Those degrees count just as much and they might fill in some gaps you don't know you have.

jessehorne 7y ago
That's a lot better than some tuition-totals I've seen but at the end of the day, my biggest problem with this system is that it's not accessible to the poor/working-class without loans. I attended a state school for around a month or two. I don't think I knew one person that wasn't paying for it with a loan. I think lower cost is a step in the right direction but I also think there's plenty more to do.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  What's wrong with taking out loans in this situation? This is exactly what loans should be for - making a wise investment in your future. This is especially true if you want to get a CS or related degree. There is a lot of consternation regarding student loans because many students are deluded into getting way in over their heads for degrees that won't end up enabling well-paying careers. That's just not the case with a CS/EE degree at a state school.
  - LMYahooTFY 7y ago
    I think a lot of the problems stem from issues tangential to this, e.g. Numerous young people are terrible at managing money, delaying gratification and long term planning, committing to a path (often dealing with choice overload).
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  My local community college is HCC which costs $3,500 a year, and U of H the local university costs $9,500 a year. So $27,000 to get a degree, which is not a lot of money compared to 4 years of time and effort. Assuming you're waiting tables that would be $120,000 in lost wages.
  - kxyvr 7y ago
    Outside of the potential social or philosophical benefits to going to college, a degree can be looked at like an investment. In the case of Houston, UH has good programs hooked into the petrochemical and banking sector in the city. The Bauer College of Business is well regarded and commodities traders start off at around $100k/year in salary and go far higher: https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.html https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.ht... The internship program at the university help facilitate a pathway into these kinds of jobs: https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ Alternatively, the chemical and petrochemical engineering departments are also well regarded. The local paper is only listing the average staring salary salary nationwide, but I recall new local engineering hires making somewhere between $75-$100k: https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting-salary-19178.html https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting... Most seasoned engineers that I know of in the field make in excess of $200k/year and they retire as low millionaires. The point is that $120k in lost wages pales in comparison to the financial security a degree can provide assuming that one has the appetite and ability for that kind of work. UH and HCC get a lot of grief, but it's a reasonable school that produces good people.
    - Gunax 7y ago
      I think in software we have been spoiled. For the most part, degrees are really optional. This is mostly luck as it's possible to do software dev at home (try doing petroleum engineering at home). Most professions require a degree either by legal mandate, or by essence.
  - wasdfff 7y ago
    You can easily work part time even with a full course load, and ramp up to full time or more during summers. It’s what I did.
- learc83 7y ago
  Public loans all qualify for income based repayment. At a state school with in state tuition a CS or engineering degree is almost definitely worth the loans if you're looking for a career change.
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  I don't disagree that we could do more. Stanford is free for the poor / working class if their grades and test scores get them admitted. What I'm saying is that while the student loan crisis is real, and higher education costs at "big name" schools are ridiculous. That narrative has some unnecessary hype in it. Specifically, you don't need to go to a "big name" school to get the jobs, state schools are just as good. And state schools (or even better the combination of community college + state school) are affordable for a lot of people. The $40K number isn't an outrageous amount of money to get on a loan (especially when it is in 8 $5K chunks) If you were going to start a gardening business you could put that down on a used pickup truck and some lawn care equipment. My concern is people who read "College costs $150K? No way could I ever pay that off!" and never look deeper. That narrative makes for a click baity story but it isn't the whole truth.
  - jessehorne 7y ago
    Fine. I'd be comfortable paying $2400 a year for a 4 year degree. That's my final offer. I won't go over that. If that's not possible then I don't think I'm the target audience! Which is a shame, because I'd really love the legitimacy that a degree would give. To be very honest, I've always dreamed about going further than that and getting a PhD, then contributing to a scientific field. It's honestly been a dream of mine for as long as I can remember. But it's stayed a dream. Real life is harder than your $40k sales-pitch. I absolutely think that's it's possible to pay it off and it's a lot more reasonable than some tuition rates. I'm just saying that if I can't get it for less than $2400 a year, I'm not interested.
    - oneplane 7y ago
      You can, but not in the USA.
      - dodobirdlord 7y ago
        Of course you can. An unfunded PhD program in any technical field is a soft rejection.
    - 7y ago
- kick 7y ago
  If you're actually poor/working-class: Degrees at SUNY and CUNY are free for residents of New York, and it doesn't take much to count as a resident.
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Even better deal is to go to community college for 2 years before transferring to a 4 year college. You can get a great education and come out with the exact same credentials for much cheaper.
- bradlys 7y ago
  Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. And if you have anything shy of a 4.0, you're unlikely to get in. Ask me how I know. :( So, if you have good chances of getting in after high school to such programs, do it. There's no reason to risk your future on community college. Professors at all colleges are a gamble and even a slight misstep can ruin your chances of getting into a good program. (which then leads to better chances of getting good jobs - if you care) That said, if you don't get into the programs after high school then community college could be fine.
  - docbrown 7y ago
    > Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. What type of “top ranked” program are we talking about here? If parent is trying to get into MIT after a long educational hiatus, then, ok, maybe it’d be a bit difficult. But if they’re hoping to obtain an EE or CS degree (for example), these programs—in the states—are usually accredited and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program. There seems to be this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better. Don’t get me wrong, a social science education from Yale or Brown will differ greatly then one at a state school but that is a given. Same goes for the select engineering programs or CS—think Cal, Georgia, MIT, etc.—but something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements so your end goal is practically the same no matter what your alma mater is.
    - bradlys 7y ago
      Public schools are what I'm talking about - the ones people would actually transfer to. (UCB, UCLA, UW (where I went), UT Austin - all top ranked CS program schools) Private is much worse. You'll probably never get into a top private school unless you're transferring from another top tier institution - most people I saw transferring into such schools were already from other top tier schools. Stanford, for instance, accepted 27 transfer students last year. 27 - that's it. Same story for many other prestigious colleges. The point of going to a top program isn't that it's a better program academically (maybe it is - maybe it isn't). It's about the resume and other things the university offers. Some of the schools help place you in co-op programs, have catered career fairs, and much more. They can set you far apart from other "lower tier" schools and make you stand out in the overwhelming crowd of new grads. It's mostly about signalling more than anything.
StandardFuture 7y ago
But he said $1200 a year for 4 years as an example of something he would sign up for immediately. $40K is 10x that number.
- jdashg 7y ago
  Somewhere between immediately@5k and never@150k is room for maybe@40k. Is it worth $330/mo for ten years? Depends on the career, but quite likely!
  - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
    > Is it worth $330/mo for ten years? Depends on the career, but quite likely! That depends A LOT on the person though. Some people are really better off learning on their own, and to them that's $330/mo for a piece of paper that says they're cool, while others may actually need that in order to learn effectively.
fredgrott 7y ago
even better if its a school that has bought an online college such as Purdue where the degree is 40k because half the time is spent online at av3ery reduced amount of tuition
commandlinefan 7y ago
> Those degrees count just as much Well, there is some snobbery floating around out there. In my experience those degrees (like the one I have) don’t count just as much, but maybe 80% as much.

jessehorne 7y ago

That's a lot better than some tuition-totals I've seen but at the end of the day, my biggest problem with this system is that it's not accessible to the poor/working-class without loans. I attended a state school for around a month or two. I don't think I knew one person that wasn't paying for it with a loan. I think lower cost is a step in the right direction but I also think there's plenty more to do.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
What's wrong with taking out loans in this situation? This is exactly what loans should be for - making a wise investment in your future. This is especially true if you want to get a CS or related degree. There is a lot of consternation regarding student loans because many students are deluded into getting way in over their heads for degrees that won't end up enabling well-paying careers. That's just not the case with a CS/EE degree at a state school.
- LMYahooTFY 7y ago
  I think a lot of the problems stem from issues tangential to this, e.g. Numerous young people are terrible at managing money, delaying gratification and long term planning, committing to a path (often dealing with choice overload).
JamesBarney 7y ago
My local community college is HCC which costs $3,500 a year, and U of H the local university costs $9,500 a year. So $27,000 to get a degree, which is not a lot of money compared to 4 years of time and effort. Assuming you're waiting tables that would be $120,000 in lost wages.
- kxyvr 7y ago
  Outside of the potential social or philosophical benefits to going to college, a degree can be looked at like an investment. In the case of Houston, UH has good programs hooked into the petrochemical and banking sector in the city. The Bauer College of Business is well regarded and commodities traders start off at around $100k/year in salary and go far higher: https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.html https://work.chron.com/commodity-trader-base-salary-28291.ht... The internship program at the university help facilitate a pathway into these kinds of jobs: https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ https://careercenter.bauer.uh.edu/internships/ Alternatively, the chemical and petrochemical engineering departments are also well regarded. The local paper is only listing the average staring salary salary nationwide, but I recall new local engineering hires making somewhere between $75-$100k: https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting-salary-19178.html https://work.chron.com/average-chemical-engineering-starting... Most seasoned engineers that I know of in the field make in excess of $200k/year and they retire as low millionaires. The point is that $120k in lost wages pales in comparison to the financial security a degree can provide assuming that one has the appetite and ability for that kind of work. UH and HCC get a lot of grief, but it's a reasonable school that produces good people.
  - Gunax 7y ago
    I think in software we have been spoiled. For the most part, degrees are really optional. This is mostly luck as it's possible to do software dev at home (try doing petroleum engineering at home). Most professions require a degree either by legal mandate, or by essence.
- wasdfff 7y ago
  You can easily work part time even with a full course load, and ramp up to full time or more during summers. It’s what I did.
learc83 7y ago
Public loans all qualify for income based repayment. At a state school with in state tuition a CS or engineering degree is almost definitely worth the loans if you're looking for a career change.
ChuckMcM 7y ago
I don't disagree that we could do more. Stanford is free for the poor / working class if their grades and test scores get them admitted. What I'm saying is that while the student loan crisis is real, and higher education costs at "big name" schools are ridiculous. That narrative has some unnecessary hype in it. Specifically, you don't need to go to a "big name" school to get the jobs, state schools are just as good. And state schools (or even better the combination of community college + state school) are affordable for a lot of people. The $40K number isn't an outrageous amount of money to get on a loan (especially when it is in 8 $5K chunks) If you were going to start a gardening business you could put that down on a used pickup truck and some lawn care equipment. My concern is people who read "College costs $150K? No way could I ever pay that off!" and never look deeper. That narrative makes for a click baity story but it isn't the whole truth.
- jessehorne 7y ago
  Fine. I'd be comfortable paying $2400 a year for a 4 year degree. That's my final offer. I won't go over that. If that's not possible then I don't think I'm the target audience! Which is a shame, because I'd really love the legitimacy that a degree would give. To be very honest, I've always dreamed about going further than that and getting a PhD, then contributing to a scientific field. It's honestly been a dream of mine for as long as I can remember. But it's stayed a dream. Real life is harder than your $40k sales-pitch. I absolutely think that's it's possible to pay it off and it's a lot more reasonable than some tuition rates. I'm just saying that if I can't get it for less than $2400 a year, I'm not interested.
  - oneplane 7y ago
    You can, but not in the USA.
    - dodobirdlord 7y ago
      Of course you can. An unfunded PhD program in any technical field is a soft rejection.
  - 7y ago
kick 7y ago
If you're actually poor/working-class: Degrees at SUNY and CUNY are free for residents of New York, and it doesn't take much to count as a resident.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

Even better deal is to go to community college for 2 years before transferring to a 4 year college. You can get a great education and come out with the exact same credentials for much cheaper.

bradlys 7y ago
Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. And if you have anything shy of a 4.0, you're unlikely to get in. Ask me how I know. :( So, if you have good chances of getting in after high school to such programs, do it. There's no reason to risk your future on community college. Professors at all colleges are a gamble and even a slight misstep can ruin your chances of getting into a good program. (which then leads to better chances of getting good jobs - if you care) That said, if you don't get into the programs after high school then community college could be fine.
- docbrown 7y ago
  > Downside is that transferring into competitive top ranked programs is very difficult. What type of “top ranked” program are we talking about here? If parent is trying to get into MIT after a long educational hiatus, then, ok, maybe it’d be a bit difficult. But if they’re hoping to obtain an EE or CS degree (for example), these programs—in the states—are usually accredited and if their engineering program is not accredited, you shouldn’t even entertain the idea of entering that program. There seems to be this constant myth that comes up when talking about higher education and that is a top ranking = better. Don’t get me wrong, a social science education from Yale or Brown will differ greatly then one at a state school but that is a given. Same goes for the select engineering programs or CS—think Cal, Georgia, MIT, etc.—but something like engineering is a program that has to follow strict course requirements so your end goal is practically the same no matter what your alma mater is.
  - bradlys 7y ago
    Public schools are what I'm talking about - the ones people would actually transfer to. (UCB, UCLA, UW (where I went), UT Austin - all top ranked CS program schools) Private is much worse. You'll probably never get into a top private school unless you're transferring from another top tier institution - most people I saw transferring into such schools were already from other top tier schools. Stanford, for instance, accepted 27 transfer students last year. 27 - that's it. Same story for many other prestigious colleges. The point of going to a top program isn't that it's a better program academically (maybe it is - maybe it isn't). It's about the resume and other things the university offers. Some of the schools help place you in co-op programs, have catered career fairs, and much more. They can set you far apart from other "lower tier" schools and make you stand out in the overwhelming crowd of new grads. It's mostly about signalling more than anything.

StandardFuture 7y ago

But he said $1200 a year for 4 years as an example of something he would sign up for immediately. $40K is 10x that number.

jdashg 7y ago
Somewhere between immediately@5k and never@150k is room for maybe@40k. Is it worth $330/mo for ten years? Depends on the career, but quite likely!
- DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
  > Is it worth $330/mo for ten years? Depends on the career, but quite likely! That depends A LOT on the person though. Some people are really better off learning on their own, and to them that's $330/mo for a piece of paper that says they're cool, while others may actually need that in order to learn effectively.

fredgrott 7y ago

even better if its a school that has bought an online college such as Purdue where the degree is 40k because half the time is spent online at av3ery reduced amount of tuition

commandlinefan 7y ago

> Those degrees count just as much Well, there is some snobbery floating around out there. In my experience those degrees (like the one I have) don’t count just as much, but maybe 80% as much.