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I hate smart TVs with a burning passion. They accomplish literally the bare minimum to keep people happy and sometimes not even that. Samsung’s Tizen OS is the

by jchw 7y ago

I hate smart TVs with a burning passion. They accomplish literally the bare minimum to keep people happy and sometimes not even that. Samsung’s Tizen OS is the most genuinely frustrating experience I’ve had with a consumer device outside of printing. Advertisements on my home screen that can’t be disabled, dubious privacy, bugs that require me to reboot my TV, and of course security so bad that they recommend installing a virus scanner? Yeah, that’s great. It’s got a web browser at least, though that’s the only positive thing I can really say about the web browsing experience. Can it run software? If you can find it! There’s no app ecosystem here, just the big apps it absolutely had to have to be worthy of shipping. If you want to watch Twitch.TV streams for example you are SoL. There was an unofficial Twitch app, but it was removed from the store. I tried to set up development for Tizen. Yeah not gonna try that again. I always thought getting started with development on Android or iOS was a little cumbersome but it really doesn’t compare. Even getting into developer mode was challenging since I had trouble finding the instructions that were pertinent to my model of TV, and that was the last thing I accomplished successfully. So I’ve got a desktop computer hooked up to my smart TV and now I am contemplating paying more for a TV so I can get one that doesn’t have any of this dumb crap on it. The only downside? You can’t really run many 10 ft versions of things, and there’s not many good casting solutions. Lame, but every time I run into a new pathological case with the TV OS and its set of subpar apps I reconsider how much it’s even worth to have fancy 10ft interfaces and smart phone integration. (If you are looking for a casting solution for an HTPC running Windows, I tried Reflector 3 briefly and it looks pretty good. But I personally do not run Windows on my own HTPC, so I’m stuck in the dark.)

bagacrap 7y ago
Can't you just remove the smart TV's internet access (no wifi pw, no Ethernet) and treat it as dumb? Then attach a Chromecast or whatever "smart" dongle you think has the best UI.
- jchw 7y ago
  This is definitely one approach, but I would actually just prefer a full computer, because I do sometimes run other software that is simply not available on any dongles. One downside though is that I only have a couple HDMI ports to work with, so between a Nintendo Switch and a full desktop PC I'm already using all of the ports. Also, even though I love the NVIDIA Shield, I find it does not really integrate as well as I hoped via HDMI CEC. It's a bit clunky to be honest, and though it's cool I can use the TV remote over CEC, it is definitely not as good as using the Shield remote, due to latency and some weird behavioral differences. So there are also downsides like that, too...
  - Tyr42 7y ago
    My shield also keeps stealing focus. When I turn on the switch, the TV turns on, then the shield turns on and steals focus from the switch, and I have to go grab the tv remote and turn it back to the Switch again.
    - jaipilot747 7y ago
      Pressing the Home button on the Switch controller automatically changes the input source to the Switch, on my TV.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    Get a Sofabaton u1. Programmable universal ir and Bluetooth remote. You can map the buttons to control both at once.
  - bagacrap 7y ago
    Typically you'd buy a receiver to take all the HDMI inputs and power speakers and control which source went to the TV via a single HDMI cord. My receiver has something like 6 HDMI ports. Smart TVs have attempted to invert this relationship by accepting HDMI and splitting audio out to the receiver, but you don't have to play along.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  Depends, but generally yes, for now. In the near future though you're likely to see smart TV's and similar devices with dedicated SIM cards and cellular modems that can't be disabled.
  - npo9 7y ago
    What do you mean by similar devices?
    - SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
      Other appliances. Set top boxes, refrigerators, washing machines, doorbells, anything someone thinks should be part of the "Internet of Things" product line they sell.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > similar devices with dedicated SIM cards and cellular modems that can't be disabled. All such radios can be disabled, if not by removing the antenna, then by enclosing it in a faraday cage. It is chilling, though, that these things may become necessary for basic things like appliances.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      It also really affects the viewing angle.
- godelski 7y ago
  I remember reading in another of these threads that the TV will try to connect to open networks or neighboring networks that they know the passwords to (like Xfinity). But I can't find any good source through a quick search, so this might just be HN rumors. Keeping the comment in case anyone does have a source. If no response, let's assume rumor.
tmountain 7y ago
Worse yet, Smart TVs often brick themselves due to failed software updates. My last Sony TV did an overnight Android update, and I found it in a state where it'd show the Android boot logo and subsequently shut down. Some Google research showed that this has happened to hundreds of people (youtube videos outlining the problem, etc). Sony refused to do anything due to the TV being out of warranty, and no amount of hackery could get the TV back up and running. The end result--perfectly fine hardware being taken to an electronics recycling facility because the firmware was totally hosed. It's maddening.
- scrumbledober 7y ago
  That sounds incredibly frustrating, and I can't believe Sony is able to get away with that. If it's not under warranty I can understand not replacing it for parts breaking due to wear or user error, but if it's an update the company pushed out that actively broke everyone's TV it seems cut and dry that they should fix or replace them.
- justinclift 7y ago
  > Sony refused to do anything due to the TV being out of warranty. Interestingly, apparently in the UK (or maybe EU?) there's a defined period an appliance is required to work for, to be "fit for purpose". Note - not a warranty thing, it's a consumer goods thing. Not living in the UK any more (thanks Brexit), so don't remember off hand the period of time though.
  - mijoharas 7y ago
    I believe it's at least two years and I thought it was an EU wide thing (though I used it in the UK). I always laugh when I see something say "1 year warranty" as I know two years is required.
  - Nition 7y ago
    Similar in New Zealand, although the exact time isn't defined. The parent comment's case would almost certainly fall under the protection of the Consumer Guarantees Act[1][2] and Sony would have to fix or replace it. Of course, getting a company to actually do something can be harder than just telling them the law. [1] https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer-laws/consumer-guarantees-act/ https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer... [2] http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/24.0/DLM311053.html http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/24.0/DLM...
zeta0134 7y ago
I've long since run with the notion that if you must have Smart TV features, do it with an external box. Last time I checked the Roku devices were decent for this, but there's a bunch of alternatives, and some lovely FOSS stuff (Kodi comes to mind) that is much more privacy focused. The TV itself is a black box of mystery, and does NOT get to go on my network. It doesn't need my wifi password, and I certainly don't want it sending screenshots of my desktop (with sensitive information) off to some advertising agency. No thank you! But far more importantly, the TV will last for years as a dumb monitor, and the external box is usually much cheaper, and can be upgraded and secured separately. This just feels like the correct model.
- scrumbledober 7y ago
  My last TV set I bought, I specifically looked for a non-smart TV. Got it for a bit cheaper than the smart models and there's no bloat. Everything else is handled by either PS4 or laptop via hdmi. I am not sure it's even possible to find non-smart TVs anymore.
  - dvdgsng 7y ago
    impossible indeed. however a recent kickstarter is trying to change this: https://ironcast.tv/ https://ironcast.tv/ lets hope they can deliver.
    - bjelkeman-again 7y ago
      In Europe I buy dumb panels aimed at stores. https://www.swedx.se/#horizontalTab2 https://www.swedx.se/#horizontalTab2
      - dvdgsng 7y ago
        This is great, thanks.
- twelvechairs 7y ago
  Yeah I just link one of those Intel NUC boxes to my TV and do everything through a real OS
duxup 7y ago
My standard operating procedure for TVs is: Setup sound bar. Connect new TV to HDMI switch. Get the TV working with my remote. Throw TV remote in a corner somewhere.... I don't even try to use a smart TV's internal functions anymore. They're just big monitors to me.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Don't some smart tv's scan the local wifi networks and try to find one they can connect back home through? eg no password on it. Guessing they haven't started shipping with a dictionary to try brute forcing the most common passwords. :D
  - duxup 7y ago
    That thought had occurred to me, fortunately I don't have a guest network. I do worry that one day someone is going to buy one of those Comcast modems that has the automatic Xfinity guest networks and it will find that ...
    - ixwt 7y ago
      In my experience, those networks only work if you are a Comcast subscriber. You have to have an account to authenticate. There would be some kind of backlash if those TVs connected to one and was able to phone home. Don't know how bad, probably on the order of the smart TV that was phoning home with the name of the contents of and flash drives you connected.
  - andrewprock 7y ago
    No, they don't. All evidence is that this is an urban legend.
rafaelvasco 7y ago
Never experienced those problems with Tizen but sometimes it lags like hell. After it warms up it's pretty fast; Unfortunately there's no Crunchyroll app yet.
- cpeterso 7y ago
  I have a Tizen Samsung TV. It is super laggy. Like 3+ seconds to respond to a button press on the remote. I found some anti-virus options (?!) deep in the TV settings. Turning real-time anti-virus scanning off made that TV almost usable again.
  - rafaelvasco 7y ago
    Really ? Antivirus ? Jeez. Gonna try to find and disable it as well; Sometimes after you turn the tv off it turns on by itself. Probably another bug;
babypuncher 7y ago
There are set top boxes (Apple TV, Nvidia Shield, etc.) that offer a much better user experience with thriving app ecosystems and regular feature updates, if you don't want the rigamarole of trying to use desktop software in a living room. I used to do the whole HTPC thing but having to use an actual web browser to access half my content felt obnoxious and cumbersome. As for avoiding smart TVs, I found it pretty easy to just ignore the WebOS garbage on my LG. I don't see why I would want to pay more to get rid of a feature I haven't had to interact with since setting the device up.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > There are set top boxes But can any of them be trusted? Serious question...
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Trusted with your viewing history? With a trivially regeneratable netflix password? I like keeping privacy private, but I'm having a hard time imagining what sorts of private data you are concerned with that would be going over a set top box. Or were you more worried about the STB being an attack vector into your home and other machines?
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      Trusted as in not reporting data about my use of the boxes or what I'm watching to anybody other than the sources of the video.
      - munk-a 7y ago
        Almost certainly not, they're very likely collecting viewership data unless not doing that is explicitly called out. But there is some good news! Since you're watching a lot of things that are being served over the interwebs your data has likely already been entirely harvested by the provider companies anyways!
    - rconti 7y ago
Willamin 7y ago
As an alternative to getting a smart tv and treating it dumb, I came across this dumb tv a few weeks ago: ironcast.tv
spaceribs 7y ago
Here's my little suggestion for all those looking for an alternative to "Smart" TVs: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=42+inch+computer+monitor https://www.amazon.com/s?k=42+inch+computer+monitor
- brianzelip 7y ago
  Can the monitor be removed from the stand, and hung on a wall?
  - spaceribs 7y ago
    I guess it depends on the monitor, but wall mounts are a pretty established standard.
  - tesseract 7y ago
    Most monitors, except for the most bare-bones models, will have a standardized mounting hole pattern on the back called a "VESA mount" for which you can obtain a wall mounting bracket. It's the same way you attach a monitor to a desk-mounted arm.
- kbenson 7y ago
  Sure... if you want to pay twice as much as the similar sized TV.[1] I actually just buy 4k TVs and use them as computer monitors instead. As long as you research to find one that has low response times (rtings.com helps with that), it works fine. 1: https://www.vizio.com/tvs/v405g9.html https://www.vizio.com/tvs/v405g9.html
  - spaceribs 7y ago
    Yeah another person brought up that the cost is reduced based on the data their mining for usage. I'd also like to point out that most of the sub-$400 Smart TVs on Amazon don't have any DisplayPorts, and the display is probably of a lower quality than something that's designed to be looked at from a couple of feet away rather than dozens of feet. Bigger than 42", I'd just recommend a projector.
scrollaway 7y ago
> So I’ve got a desktop computer hooked up to my smart TV and now I am contemplating paying more for a TV so I can get one that doesn’t have any of this dumb crap on it. Yeah, call me when you find one… I have an nvidia shield which more than fulfills the "smart tv" needs, and I think that's probably the way it should be and stay. I love this setup and just want to disable all the smart features now. It's not like they're in the way but sometimes the tv does decide that "I see you're watching a movie. Now might be a good time to ask you to reboot for the latest software update innit?"
bookofjoe 7y ago
>I hate smart TVs with a burning passion. Me too! When I bought a new Samsung 32" last year, I went very, very slowly as I set it up, so as not to inadvertently connect it to the internet. I succeeded in not connecting and life is good.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Pretty sure some tv's scan the local wifi networks looking for way to call home. Not sure if Samsung is one of the manufacturers of those though.
  - bookofjoe 7y ago
    Yes! As I recall, a screen came up with a bunch of local wifi networks — including my own two — asking me to put in a password to connect. I was able to move on to the next screen without doing so, and I was home free.
mirimir 7y ago
I hate them too. So I just have a large monitor. > You can’t really run many 10 ft versions of things ... Huh? My media server is in a ventilated closet, so I'm using ~15 meter HDMI, USB and audio cables. It was admittedly an expensive HDMI cable, but it seems to work well enough.
- satyrnein 7y ago
  I believe they're referring to a 10 ft UI, meaning optimized for viewing from 10 feet away (bigger text, not requiring precise mouse clicks, etc).
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Oh, I see -- "10ft UI". Isn't it easy to tweak all that? It is in Debian, anyway.
m-p-3 7y ago
TV makers should stop embedding the Smart TV features, and focus on either bundling an external box on dongle, or establish a standard for smartTV circuit board that you can replace by a third-party or pull out completely when the inevitable happens (system is unsupported/EOL, has some security flaws the manufacturer doesn't take seriously, etc. And more importantly, make the display works without such card.
- jaywalk 7y ago
  How would that benefit the TV manufacturers? Unless average Joes start clamoring for that, all of the cost associated with what you're asking for wouldn't help them sell a significantly larger number of TVs.
- amiga-workbench 7y ago
  Commercial grade NEC digital signage displays use the Open Pluggable Standard. You can insert a number of modules into the OPS slot, from a SDI video receiver, to a nasty Android based media player, or even a full x86 PC. I've said it before here, but I'm getting a second hand NEC commercial display as my next TV. I've used them at work and they are excellent panels.
JohnFen 7y ago
> I hate smart TVs with a burning passion. Yes, me too. I have an old dumb TV, and will use that until it breaks. When that happens, I won't be buying another TV at all, since as near as I can tell, the "smart" kind will be the only kind on the market.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  A few years back I bought a cheap one at a black friday sell and it is plain ol' dumb model. I feed in an HDMI from a laptop and all I use the remote for is on/off and volume.
munk-a 7y ago
A while ago I just rejected the concept of smart TVs (and TVs wholesale) in my residence. Hook a projector up to a computer, have a wireless mouse floating around and either use on-screen key entry or a keyboard to interact with the browser when not just working off of pre-set sources and call it a day. If you wanted to go above and beyond I guess you could set up remote desktop and get into the system from your phone, but I have never felt the need. The computer can be as cheap as the video quality you want to view... and a decent 1080p projector can easily be had for ~300 USD, bump up the computer to gaming specs and run your entertainment off of it and you've got a nice multi-use solution for the house... unless there is competition for resources.
irrational 7y ago
The last time I tried to buy a decent TV, I really wanted a non-smart version. It seems that this is an impossible ask. I was even willing to pay extra. Now that I have a smart TV, I really don't understand most of what it does. Whenever I turn it on it is playing some Soccer (Futbol) station. How? I don't know. I don't have cable or an internet connection to the TV. I assume it must be getting it over the air. Can I turn it off. I don't know. I haven't found anyway to do so so far.
worble 7y ago
This Christmas I finally took the time (which admittedly didn't take long; I was just lazy until now) to set up LibreElec on my pi and hook it up to my TV, and I honestly don't know how I've overlooked this for so many years. It's a DLNA/UPNP client so I can cast anything I want from my media server on my computer to it (Bubble UPNP is a great app to control all this from my phone) and even though it doesn't have "cast" built into apps like Youtube and Twitch, they're all supported as addons so you can still get 90% of the functionality, so I can finally throw away my Chromecasts. Plus you can either use the TV's remote with HDMI-CEC out of the box, or hook up a wireless keyboard. With another pi running TVHeadEnd that I feed my aerial into, I basically don't need any of the builtin TV software anymore, Kodi just controls it all. It's a pretty liberating feeling.
- anderspitman 7y ago
  Sounds cool. How easy is it to do what I talk about in the blog post and send it a URL from my phone?
  - darkwater 7y ago
    With Kodi it's dead easy, actually I was thinking about it while reading your post: "he should use Kodi"
    - anderspitman 7y ago
      I think I probably should. But I also think I shouldn't have to. This is the first time the Roku has let me down.
  - jeroenhd 7y ago
    I use Kodi, and while it probably isn't a complete replacement for Roku (Netflix doesn't work out of the box but I have to admit I haven't looked into getting it to work because it's one of the few "smart" things I let my smart TV do), it's pretty good for showing content. There's a Firefox extension called "Send to Kodi" that I use to quickly cast Youtube videos and other videos from my PC to my Kodi. On my phone I use Kore, which can send a URL to Kodi using the standard Android share menu (hold a link, Share > Play on Kodi). Kodi also supports UPNP so you can use one of the million available apps for that to allow some other media servers as well. It's not perfect, but Kodi has managed to satisfy my video consumption needs quite well. I'm using an outdated version (it's running on my server which runs Debian stable) but I haven't run into problems thus far.
deleted 7y ago
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conception 7y ago
While I agree, and know of all the evil repercussions of smart TVs, Samsung's software is terrible but LG's is pretty good, because I believe it's just WebOS from Palm Days. It's easily been my most positive "TV OS" experience yet. That said, I wish there was a dumb TV option.
satysin 7y ago
I agree with your frustrations about smart TVs but I also like the setup I have with my TV. I bought an LG OLED last summer (a 55" C9) and to be honest I don't hate the software (webOS) on it. However my setup is not really normal. Firstly my TV is connected via Ethernet to my router and is restricted to only Netflix, the LG web store and my internal network. I don't watch live TV, instead my viewing is limited to Netflix and content on my Plex server. Turns out the LG Plex app is very good. The TV supports pretty much every video and audio codec so I can do Direct Play from my Plex server. I mostly have direct Blu-ray streams extracted and remuxed into mkv files so there is no quality difference with using Plex vs. the actual Blu-ray. The rest is a mixture of H.264 and H.265 video with AAC and DTS audio in mp4 or mkv files. Everything plays perfectly with quality on par with or exceeding Netflix to give a comparison. This setup works great for me. I only really interact with the TV OS to switch between Netflix and Plex which isn't a big deal and the picture quality of the OLED panel is incredible with 4K HDR content. The real star of the show is Plex though which is just god damn fantastic. As everything I have is Direct Play compatible I can (and have) run the Plex server on a Raspberry Pi with a USB HDD attached and it works perfectly. Even for 80GB 4K HDR movies (direct Blu-ray remux files are large!) plays back from a Pi running openmediavault and Plex media server in Docker. In the past I have tried a few different solutions such as a HTPC running Windows plugged directly into the TV but nothing gave me as good picture quality with the same flexibility as using the native TV apps. In fact the Plex on a Pi setup works so well for me I set one up for my mother when I visited over the new year. She can watch any content on my Plex server as well as anything I upload to hers (as she often wants things I don't care for so don't want using up my disk space :) If you haven't looked into Plex I highly recommend you check it out. It really does 'just work' which is so nice when you want to sit down and watch a movie without having to deal with all the adverts and junk before the movie on a Blu-ray disc.
- causality0 7y ago
  I fear that soon we're going to need an open-source alternative to Plex. Increasingly aggressive monetization seems to be creeping into the Plex experience. I keep finding things I don't own and don't want showing up on my home screen. "Suggested movies" and "Suggested podcasts" and the like. You can prune them back but a few months later you find some other garbage you don't want.
macjohnmcc 7y ago
I miss the days when my TV didn't need rebooted and didn't crash. I want a TV that is basically just a multiple input dumb monitor. I don't even want a tuner built in.
mijoharas 7y ago
I used to write software for samsung smart tvs along with other TV OSes and games consoles. Samsung/Tizen was one of the worst in my experience (the only thing I found more annoying was PlayStation only giving a windows sdk when the box itself is basically a BSD. Let me develop on Linux dammit!)
moby_click 7y ago
Tizen could be a great OS if Samsung did not lock it down and enabled building from source. It is a lot closer to Linux than Android. I use it on a watch/fitness-tracker and the whole package would be great if the development was not hamstrung by Samsung. You need to sign packages with a certificate you get from Samsung and tie it to your device ids for sideloading. For that, you need Tizen Studio, which is a custom outdated version of eclipse, depending on outdated versions of some external libraries. I tried it in a container, which worked fine, except for the signature generation. So I ran it in a sufficiently outdated VM. Unfortunately, this developer cert will only get you so far and for the complete API, you need a partner level cert. If you put up with all this, there's the documentation[0]. It takes ages to load and you can't easily download the damn thing, because they pull in the content via XHR. Why, Samsung, why? [0]: https://developer.tizen.org/development/api-references/native-application?redirect=https://developer.tizen.org/dev-guide/2.3.1/org.tizen.native.mobile.apireference/index.html https://developer.tizen.org/development/api-references/nativ...
commandersaki 7y ago
I just want a TV that lets me ssh/sftp/scp/VLC. The VLC app would be the "smart tv".
mackal 7y ago
Pretty sure they stopped shipping ads enabled by default a while ago. Pretty sure both of the Samsung smart TVs in the house didn't have them enabled out of the box.
sdinsn 7y ago
I have a dirt cheap TLC smart TV w/ Roku that works great. 55 inch for ~$250 or so.
1auralynn 7y ago
I've had two Samsung smart TVs, neither of which were capable of letting me share my screen from a Samsung Galaxy phone..... (well, technically, I did get it to work once or twice, but I'm very good at troubleshooting and it took me over an hour and three different apps).
shifto 7y ago
> If you want to watch Twitch.TV streams for example you are SoL. There was an unofficial Twitch app, but it was removed from the store. I still get worked up about this. I was able to watch streams on my TV using this app and someone somewhere just decided I shouldn't be able no more. The TV has lost value with this change, to me at least.

by jchw 7y ago

bagacrap 7y ago

Can't you just remove the smart TV's internet access (no wifi pw, no Ethernet) and treat it as dumb? Then attach a Chromecast or whatever "smart" dongle you think has the best UI.

jchw 7y ago
This is definitely one approach, but I would actually just prefer a full computer, because I do sometimes run other software that is simply not available on any dongles. One downside though is that I only have a couple HDMI ports to work with, so between a Nintendo Switch and a full desktop PC I'm already using all of the ports. Also, even though I love the NVIDIA Shield, I find it does not really integrate as well as I hoped via HDMI CEC. It's a bit clunky to be honest, and though it's cool I can use the TV remote over CEC, it is definitely not as good as using the Shield remote, due to latency and some weird behavioral differences. So there are also downsides like that, too...
- Tyr42 7y ago
  My shield also keeps stealing focus. When I turn on the switch, the TV turns on, then the shield turns on and steals focus from the switch, and I have to go grab the tv remote and turn it back to the Switch again.
  - jaipilot747 7y ago
    Pressing the Home button on the Switch controller automatically changes the input source to the Switch, on my TV.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Get a Sofabaton u1. Programmable universal ir and Bluetooth remote. You can map the buttons to control both at once.
- bagacrap 7y ago
  Typically you'd buy a receiver to take all the HDMI inputs and power speakers and control which source went to the TV via a single HDMI cord. My receiver has something like 6 HDMI ports. Smart TVs have attempted to invert this relationship by accepting HDMI and splitting audio out to the receiver, but you don't have to play along.
Enginerrrd 7y ago
Depends, but generally yes, for now. In the near future though you're likely to see smart TV's and similar devices with dedicated SIM cards and cellular modems that can't be disabled.
- npo9 7y ago
  What do you mean by similar devices?
  - SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
    Other appliances. Set top boxes, refrigerators, washing machines, doorbells, anything someone thinks should be part of the "Internet of Things" product line they sell.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > similar devices with dedicated SIM cards and cellular modems that can't be disabled. All such radios can be disabled, if not by removing the antenna, then by enclosing it in a faraday cage. It is chilling, though, that these things may become necessary for basic things like appliances.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    It also really affects the viewing angle.
godelski 7y ago
I remember reading in another of these threads that the TV will try to connect to open networks or neighboring networks that they know the passwords to (like Xfinity). But I can't find any good source through a quick search, so this might just be HN rumors. Keeping the comment in case anyone does have a source. If no response, let's assume rumor.

tmountain 7y ago

Worse yet, Smart TVs often brick themselves due to failed software updates. My last Sony TV did an overnight Android update, and I found it in a state where it'd show the Android boot logo and subsequently shut down. Some Google research showed that this has happened to hundreds of people (youtube videos outlining the problem, etc). Sony refused to do anything due to the TV being out of warranty, and no amount of hackery could get the TV back up and running. The end result--perfectly fine hardware being taken to an electronics recycling facility because the firmware was totally hosed. It's maddening.

scrumbledober 7y ago
That sounds incredibly frustrating, and I can't believe Sony is able to get away with that. If it's not under warranty I can understand not replacing it for parts breaking due to wear or user error, but if it's an update the company pushed out that actively broke everyone's TV it seems cut and dry that they should fix or replace them.
justinclift 7y ago
> Sony refused to do anything due to the TV being out of warranty. Interestingly, apparently in the UK (or maybe EU?) there's a defined period an appliance is required to work for, to be "fit for purpose". Note - not a warranty thing, it's a consumer goods thing. Not living in the UK any more (thanks Brexit), so don't remember off hand the period of time though.
- mijoharas 7y ago
  I believe it's at least two years and I thought it was an EU wide thing (though I used it in the UK). I always laugh when I see something say "1 year warranty" as I know two years is required.
- Nition 7y ago
  Similar in New Zealand, although the exact time isn't defined. The parent comment's case would almost certainly fall under the protection of the Consumer Guarantees Act[1][2] and Sony would have to fix or replace it. Of course, getting a company to actually do something can be harder than just telling them the law. [1] https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer-laws/consumer-guarantees-act/ https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/consumer... [2] http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/24.0/DLM311053.html http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/24.0/DLM...

zeta0134 7y ago

I've long since run with the notion that if you must have Smart TV features, do it with an external box. Last time I checked the Roku devices were decent for this, but there's a bunch of alternatives, and some lovely FOSS stuff (Kodi comes to mind) that is much more privacy focused. The TV itself is a black box of mystery, and does NOT get to go on my network. It doesn't need my wifi password, and I certainly don't want it sending screenshots of my desktop (with sensitive information) off to some advertising agency. No thank you! But far more importantly, the TV will last for years as a dumb monitor, and the external box is usually much cheaper, and can be upgraded and secured separately. This just feels like the correct model.

scrumbledober 7y ago
My last TV set I bought, I specifically looked for a non-smart TV. Got it for a bit cheaper than the smart models and there's no bloat. Everything else is handled by either PS4 or laptop via hdmi. I am not sure it's even possible to find non-smart TVs anymore.
- dvdgsng 7y ago
  impossible indeed. however a recent kickstarter is trying to change this: https://ironcast.tv/ https://ironcast.tv/ lets hope they can deliver.
  - bjelkeman-again 7y ago
    In Europe I buy dumb panels aimed at stores. https://www.swedx.se/#horizontalTab2 https://www.swedx.se/#horizontalTab2
    - dvdgsng 7y ago
      This is great, thanks.
twelvechairs 7y ago
Yeah I just link one of those Intel NUC boxes to my TV and do everything through a real OS

duxup 7y ago

My standard operating procedure for TVs is: Setup sound bar. Connect new TV to HDMI switch. Get the TV working with my remote. Throw TV remote in a corner somewhere.... I don't even try to use a smart TV's internal functions anymore. They're just big monitors to me.

justinclift 7y ago
Don't some smart tv's scan the local wifi networks and try to find one they can connect back home through? eg no password on it. Guessing they haven't started shipping with a dictionary to try brute forcing the most common passwords. :D
- duxup 7y ago
  That thought had occurred to me, fortunately I don't have a guest network. I do worry that one day someone is going to buy one of those Comcast modems that has the automatic Xfinity guest networks and it will find that ...
  - ixwt 7y ago
    In my experience, those networks only work if you are a Comcast subscriber. You have to have an account to authenticate. There would be some kind of backlash if those TVs connected to one and was able to phone home. Don't know how bad, probably on the order of the smart TV that was phoning home with the name of the contents of and flash drives you connected.
- andrewprock 7y ago
  No, they don't. All evidence is that this is an urban legend.

rafaelvasco 7y ago

Never experienced those problems with Tizen but sometimes it lags like hell. After it warms up it's pretty fast; Unfortunately there's no Crunchyroll app yet.

cpeterso 7y ago
I have a Tizen Samsung TV. It is super laggy. Like 3+ seconds to respond to a button press on the remote. I found some anti-virus options (?!) deep in the TV settings. Turning real-time anti-virus scanning off made that TV almost usable again.
- rafaelvasco 7y ago
  Really ? Antivirus ? Jeez. Gonna try to find and disable it as well; Sometimes after you turn the tv off it turns on by itself. Probably another bug;

babypuncher 7y ago

There are set top boxes (Apple TV, Nvidia Shield, etc.) that offer a much better user experience with thriving app ecosystems and regular feature updates, if you don't want the rigamarole of trying to use desktop software in a living room. I used to do the whole HTPC thing but having to use an actual web browser to access half my content felt obnoxious and cumbersome. As for avoiding smart TVs, I found it pretty easy to just ignore the WebOS garbage on my LG. I don't see why I would want to pay more to get rid of a feature I haven't had to interact with since setting the device up.

JohnFen 7y ago
> There are set top boxes But can any of them be trusted? Serious question...
- munk-a 7y ago
  Trusted with your viewing history? With a trivially regeneratable netflix password? I like keeping privacy private, but I'm having a hard time imagining what sorts of private data you are concerned with that would be going over a set top box. Or were you more worried about the STB being an attack vector into your home and other machines?
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    Trusted as in not reporting data about my use of the boxes or what I'm watching to anybody other than the sources of the video.
    - munk-a 7y ago
      Almost certainly not, they're very likely collecting viewership data unless not doing that is explicitly called out. But there is some good news! Since you're watching a lot of things that are being served over the interwebs your data has likely already been entirely harvested by the provider companies anyways!
  - rconti 7y ago

Willamin 7y ago

As an alternative to getting a smart tv and treating it dumb, I came across this dumb tv a few weeks ago: ironcast.tv

spaceribs 7y ago

Here's my little suggestion for all those looking for an alternative to "Smart" TVs: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=42+inch+computer+monitor https://www.amazon.com/s?k=42+inch+computer+monitor

brianzelip 7y ago
Can the monitor be removed from the stand, and hung on a wall?
- spaceribs 7y ago
  I guess it depends on the monitor, but wall mounts are a pretty established standard.
- tesseract 7y ago
  Most monitors, except for the most bare-bones models, will have a standardized mounting hole pattern on the back called a "VESA mount" for which you can obtain a wall mounting bracket. It's the same way you attach a monitor to a desk-mounted arm.
kbenson 7y ago
Sure... if you want to pay twice as much as the similar sized TV.[1] I actually just buy 4k TVs and use them as computer monitors instead. As long as you research to find one that has low response times (rtings.com helps with that), it works fine. 1: https://www.vizio.com/tvs/v405g9.html https://www.vizio.com/tvs/v405g9.html
- spaceribs 7y ago
  Yeah another person brought up that the cost is reduced based on the data their mining for usage. I'd also like to point out that most of the sub-$400 Smart TVs on Amazon don't have any DisplayPorts, and the display is probably of a lower quality than something that's designed to be looked at from a couple of feet away rather than dozens of feet. Bigger than 42", I'd just recommend a projector.

scrollaway 7y ago

> So I’ve got a desktop computer hooked up to my smart TV and now I am contemplating paying more for a TV so I can get one that doesn’t have any of this dumb crap on it. Yeah, call me when you find one… I have an nvidia shield which more than fulfills the "smart tv" needs, and I think that's probably the way it should be and stay. I love this setup and just want to disable all the smart features now. It's not like they're in the way but sometimes the tv does decide that "I see you're watching a movie. Now might be a good time to ask you to reboot for the latest software update innit?"

bookofjoe 7y ago

>I hate smart TVs with a burning passion. Me too! When I bought a new Samsung 32" last year, I went very, very slowly as I set it up, so as not to inadvertently connect it to the internet. I succeeded in not connecting and life is good.

justinclift 7y ago
Pretty sure some tv's scan the local wifi networks looking for way to call home. Not sure if Samsung is one of the manufacturers of those though.
- bookofjoe 7y ago
  Yes! As I recall, a screen came up with a bunch of local wifi networks — including my own two — asking me to put in a password to connect. I was able to move on to the next screen without doing so, and I was home free.

mirimir 7y ago

I hate them too. So I just have a large monitor. > You can’t really run many 10 ft versions of things ... Huh? My media server is in a ventilated closet, so I'm using ~15 meter HDMI, USB and audio cables. It was admittedly an expensive HDMI cable, but it seems to work well enough.

satyrnein 7y ago
I believe they're referring to a 10 ft UI, meaning optimized for viewing from 10 feet away (bigger text, not requiring precise mouse clicks, etc).
- mirimir 7y ago
  Oh, I see -- "10ft UI". Isn't it easy to tweak all that? It is in Debian, anyway.

m-p-3 7y ago

TV makers should stop embedding the Smart TV features, and focus on either bundling an external box on dongle, or establish a standard for smartTV circuit board that you can replace by a third-party or pull out completely when the inevitable happens (system is unsupported/EOL, has some security flaws the manufacturer doesn't take seriously, etc. And more importantly, make the display works without such card.

jaywalk 7y ago
How would that benefit the TV manufacturers? Unless average Joes start clamoring for that, all of the cost associated with what you're asking for wouldn't help them sell a significantly larger number of TVs.
amiga-workbench 7y ago
Commercial grade NEC digital signage displays use the Open Pluggable Standard. You can insert a number of modules into the OPS slot, from a SDI video receiver, to a nasty Android based media player, or even a full x86 PC. I've said it before here, but I'm getting a second hand NEC commercial display as my next TV. I've used them at work and they are excellent panels.

JohnFen 7y ago

> I hate smart TVs with a burning passion. Yes, me too. I have an old dumb TV, and will use that until it breaks. When that happens, I won't be buying another TV at all, since as near as I can tell, the "smart" kind will be the only kind on the market.

SkyBelow 7y ago
A few years back I bought a cheap one at a black friday sell and it is plain ol' dumb model. I feed in an HDMI from a laptop and all I use the remote for is on/off and volume.

munk-a 7y ago

A while ago I just rejected the concept of smart TVs (and TVs wholesale) in my residence. Hook a projector up to a computer, have a wireless mouse floating around and either use on-screen key entry or a keyboard to interact with the browser when not just working off of pre-set sources and call it a day. If you wanted to go above and beyond I guess you could set up remote desktop and get into the system from your phone, but I have never felt the need. The computer can be as cheap as the video quality you want to view... and a decent 1080p projector can easily be had for ~300 USD, bump up the computer to gaming specs and run your entertainment off of it and you've got a nice multi-use solution for the house... unless there is competition for resources.

irrational 7y ago

The last time I tried to buy a decent TV, I really wanted a non-smart version. It seems that this is an impossible ask. I was even willing to pay extra. Now that I have a smart TV, I really don't understand most of what it does. Whenever I turn it on it is playing some Soccer (Futbol) station. How? I don't know. I don't have cable or an internet connection to the TV. I assume it must be getting it over the air. Can I turn it off. I don't know. I haven't found anyway to do so so far.

worble 7y ago

This Christmas I finally took the time (which admittedly didn't take long; I was just lazy until now) to set up LibreElec on my pi and hook it up to my TV, and I honestly don't know how I've overlooked this for so many years. It's a DLNA/UPNP client so I can cast anything I want from my media server on my computer to it (Bubble UPNP is a great app to control all this from my phone) and even though it doesn't have "cast" built into apps like Youtube and Twitch, they're all supported as addons so you can still get 90% of the functionality, so I can finally throw away my Chromecasts. Plus you can either use the TV's remote with HDMI-CEC out of the box, or hook up a wireless keyboard. With another pi running TVHeadEnd that I feed my aerial into, I basically don't need any of the builtin TV software anymore, Kodi just controls it all. It's a pretty liberating feeling.

anderspitman 7y ago
Sounds cool. How easy is it to do what I talk about in the blog post and send it a URL from my phone?
- darkwater 7y ago
  With Kodi it's dead easy, actually I was thinking about it while reading your post: "he should use Kodi"
  - anderspitman 7y ago
    I think I probably should. But I also think I shouldn't have to. This is the first time the Roku has let me down.
- jeroenhd 7y ago
  I use Kodi, and while it probably isn't a complete replacement for Roku (Netflix doesn't work out of the box but I have to admit I haven't looked into getting it to work because it's one of the few "smart" things I let my smart TV do), it's pretty good for showing content. There's a Firefox extension called "Send to Kodi" that I use to quickly cast Youtube videos and other videos from my PC to my Kodi. On my phone I use Kore, which can send a URL to Kodi using the standard Android share menu (hold a link, Share > Play on Kodi). Kodi also supports UPNP so you can use one of the million available apps for that to allow some other media servers as well. It's not perfect, but Kodi has managed to satisfy my video consumption needs quite well. I'm using an outdated version (it's running on my server which runs Debian stable) but I haven't run into problems thus far.

deleted 7y ago

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conception 7y ago

While I agree, and know of all the evil repercussions of smart TVs, Samsung's software is terrible but LG's is pretty good, because I believe it's just WebOS from Palm Days. It's easily been my most positive "TV OS" experience yet. That said, I wish there was a dumb TV option.

satysin 7y ago

I agree with your frustrations about smart TVs but I also like the setup I have with my TV. I bought an LG OLED last summer (a 55" C9) and to be honest I don't hate the software (webOS) on it. However my setup is not really normal. Firstly my TV is connected via Ethernet to my router and is restricted to only Netflix, the LG web store and my internal network. I don't watch live TV, instead my viewing is limited to Netflix and content on my Plex server. Turns out the LG Plex app is very good. The TV supports pretty much every video and audio codec so I can do Direct Play from my Plex server. I mostly have direct Blu-ray streams extracted and remuxed into mkv files so there is no quality difference with using Plex vs. the actual Blu-ray. The rest is a mixture of H.264 and H.265 video with AAC and DTS audio in mp4 or mkv files. Everything plays perfectly with quality on par with or exceeding Netflix to give a comparison. This setup works great for me. I only really interact with the TV OS to switch between Netflix and Plex which isn't a big deal and the picture quality of the OLED panel is incredible with 4K HDR content. The real star of the show is Plex though which is just god damn fantastic. As everything I have is Direct Play compatible I can (and have) run the Plex server on a Raspberry Pi with a USB HDD attached and it works perfectly. Even for 80GB 4K HDR movies (direct Blu-ray remux files are large!) plays back from a Pi running openmediavault and Plex media server in Docker. In the past I have tried a few different solutions such as a HTPC running Windows plugged directly into the TV but nothing gave me as good picture quality with the same flexibility as using the native TV apps. In fact the Plex on a Pi setup works so well for me I set one up for my mother when I visited over the new year. She can watch any content on my Plex server as well as anything I upload to hers (as she often wants things I don't care for so don't want using up my disk space :) If you haven't looked into Plex I highly recommend you check it out. It really does 'just work' which is so nice when you want to sit down and watch a movie without having to deal with all the adverts and junk before the movie on a Blu-ray disc.

causality0 7y ago
I fear that soon we're going to need an open-source alternative to Plex. Increasingly aggressive monetization seems to be creeping into the Plex experience. I keep finding things I don't own and don't want showing up on my home screen. "Suggested movies" and "Suggested podcasts" and the like. You can prune them back but a few months later you find some other garbage you don't want.

macjohnmcc 7y ago

I miss the days when my TV didn't need rebooted and didn't crash. I want a TV that is basically just a multiple input dumb monitor. I don't even want a tuner built in.

mijoharas 7y ago

I used to write software for samsung smart tvs along with other TV OSes and games consoles. Samsung/Tizen was one of the worst in my experience (the only thing I found more annoying was PlayStation only giving a windows sdk when the box itself is basically a BSD. Let me develop on Linux dammit!)

moby_click 7y ago

Tizen could be a great OS if Samsung did not lock it down and enabled building from source. It is a lot closer to Linux than Android. I use it on a watch/fitness-tracker and the whole package would be great if the development was not hamstrung by Samsung. You need to sign packages with a certificate you get from Samsung and tie it to your device ids for sideloading. For that, you need Tizen Studio, which is a custom outdated version of eclipse, depending on outdated versions of some external libraries. I tried it in a container, which worked fine, except for the signature generation. So I ran it in a sufficiently outdated VM. Unfortunately, this developer cert will only get you so far and for the complete API, you need a partner level cert. If you put up with all this, there's the documentation[0]. It takes ages to load and you can't easily download the damn thing, because they pull in the content via XHR. Why, Samsung, why? [0]: https://developer.tizen.org/development/api-references/native-application?redirect=https://developer.tizen.org/dev-guide/2.3.1/org.tizen.native.mobile.apireference/index.html https://developer.tizen.org/development/api-references/nativ...

commandersaki 7y ago

I just want a TV that lets me ssh/sftp/scp/VLC. The VLC app would be the "smart tv".

mackal 7y ago

Pretty sure they stopped shipping ads enabled by default a while ago. Pretty sure both of the Samsung smart TVs in the house didn't have them enabled out of the box.

sdinsn 7y ago

I have a dirt cheap TLC smart TV w/ Roku that works great. 55 inch for ~$250 or so.

1auralynn 7y ago

I've had two Samsung smart TVs, neither of which were capable of letting me share my screen from a Samsung Galaxy phone..... (well, technically, I did get it to work once or twice, but I'm very good at troubleshooting and it took me over an hour and three different apps).

shifto 7y ago

> If you want to watch Twitch.TV streams for example you are SoL. There was an unofficial Twitch app, but it was removed from the store. I still get worked up about this. I was able to watch streams on my TV using this app and someone somewhere just decided I shouldn't be able no more. The TV has lost value with this change, to me at least.