6 ms·

"No Way To Prevent This", Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_To_Prevent_This,%27_Says_Only_Nation_Wh

"No Way To Prevent This", Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_To_Prevent_This,%27_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_To_Prevent_This,%27_...

slothtrop 7y ago
They've moved the goalpost from this to "the deaths are statistically insignificant".
- alamaslah 7y ago
  Where did they get that idea from? [1] Amusingly... it was likely their opposition. This is why you should hold yourself and those you align with to high standards. It only stengthens your position...even if you are completely wrong (although only a little bit) [1] https://ourworldindata.org/terrorism https://ourworldindata.org/terrorism
ancarda 7y ago
On that thought, is there any way to prevent shootings without making guns harder or impossible for citizens to own? Seems many will not disarm in the US, so should we be exploring other options rather than repeatedly saying the US should be more like other countries?
- jonny_eh 7y ago
  Is it so bad to make guns as hard to own as a car? Simple licensing would go a long way to reduce the risk of guns. https://www.vox.com/2019/9/11/20861019/gun-solution-background-check-licensing https://www.vox.com/2019/9/11/20861019/gun-solution-backgrou...
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    > Is it so bad to make guns as hard to own as a car? The ONLY people that say this are the ones that would be (fucking) horrified if we treated guns like cars. Ok. You are proposing I should be able to buy any gun I want whenever I want regardless of size or capacity, automatic, or loud or silenced for cash without any checks or regulations at all? That the only requirement to use it in public is that I need a license - BUT - that carry license is good in all 50 states? ... that sounds good to me! Let’s do it. Yours is an argument based entirely in ignorance of gun laws. And maybe car laws too.
    - jonny_eh 7y ago
      > Ok. You are proposing I should be able to buy any gun I want whenever I want regardless of size or capacity, automatic, or loud or silenced for cash without any checks or regulations at all? What? No.
      - etrabroline 7y ago
        But that's how loosely cars are regulated, and you said you wanted guns regulated like cars. I think what you meant to say is to regulate guns much more strictly than cars.
      - kortilla 7y ago
        Well that’s how purchasing a car works, so... Maybe you’re confusing purchasing a car with licensing a car?
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      It's not a tradeoff between manufacturing restrictions and licensing restrictions.
    - Seirdy 7y ago
      I believe he was referring to licensing a car, since the following sentence referred to "simple licensing." > regardless of size or capacity Vehicles of different size/capacity do require different qualifications to drive. Certain classes of vehicles require a CDL for their class. See https://driving-tests.org/cdl-classification-licenses/ https://driving-tests.org/cdl-classification-licenses/. You also have to be 21+ in may states to even apply for them in many states.
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
    Last I checked, cars do not require any licensing to own. They require special licensing and often times yearly taxes to operate on public roads (but merely possessing them on public roads does not).
    - jonny_eh 7y ago
      You need to register the car, and that often requires proof of insurance, which requires a driver's license. Either way, my point still stands. You're quibbling over semantics. So few people want to buy a car just to not drive it, that we don't even consider it a problem.
      - kortilla 7y ago
        No, you don’t need to register the car if you don’t intend to drive it on public roads. See farms.
      - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
        > You're quibbling over semantics. Not at all. He’s accurately reflecting gun laws and car laws. You are willfully hand waving the fact that cars are entirely unregulated except for use on public roads. As where guns are regulated in every facet of their existence. You are doing this because you read on a liberal site and heard the liberal talking points that guns are easier to get than a car with is wrong. It’s not semantic, your argument is invalid.
    - mlyle 7y ago
      > and often times yearly taxes to operate on public roads (but merely possessing them on public roads does not). In my jurisdiction one may not "move" or "leave standing" upon a public road an unregistered vehicle, in addition to not being permitted to "drive" it.
      - SkyBelow 7y ago
        Wow, you can't tow an unregistered vehicle? That definitely sounds off, but then I've seen even more silly laws in the past (such as one that forbids minors from playing pinball).
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
Despite the vail of Wikipedia, your source is The Onion. Does the onion’s satirical joke take into account all the places there are no guns but this does still happens? Paris France, and Norway, have both had worse mass and school shootings than any in the USA ever.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Which school shootings in France and Norway have been worse than any in the USA?
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    Paris was the mass shooting I was referencing. 184 dead irrc. Norway, School summer camp in 2011. I suppose it’s not exactly what you think of when you think of skin shooting inside a school building, but the people killed were almost exclusively children. Perpetrator use a rifle that has not been legal in Norway for civilians.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      It wasn't a school summer camp - it was organized by a left-wing political party - and most of the people killed were adults. He used a Ruger Mini-14 and a Glock pistol for which he had a legal license as a civilian (for hunting and sport shooting respectively), purchased in Norway - the country with the second highest legal gun ownership rate in the EU - after he failed to illegally acquire guns in Prague.
      - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
        > He used a Ruger Mini-14 and a Glock pistol for which he had a legal license as a civilian You have a source for that? I understood neither of those guns are to be civilian legal. Also... to the topic. If Norway’s extremely strict (draconian) gun laws didn’t prevent this shooting which was worse than any in US history; why would US benefit from them?

slothtrop 7y ago

They've moved the goalpost from this to "the deaths are statistically insignificant".

alamaslah 7y ago
Where did they get that idea from? [1] Amusingly... it was likely their opposition. This is why you should hold yourself and those you align with to high standards. It only stengthens your position...even if you are completely wrong (although only a little bit) [1] https://ourworldindata.org/terrorism https://ourworldindata.org/terrorism

ancarda 7y ago

On that thought, is there any way to prevent shootings without making guns harder or impossible for citizens to own? Seems many will not disarm in the US, so should we be exploring other options rather than repeatedly saying the US should be more like other countries?

jonny_eh 7y ago
Is it so bad to make guns as hard to own as a car? Simple licensing would go a long way to reduce the risk of guns. https://www.vox.com/2019/9/11/20861019/gun-solution-background-check-licensing https://www.vox.com/2019/9/11/20861019/gun-solution-backgrou...
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  > Is it so bad to make guns as hard to own as a car? The ONLY people that say this are the ones that would be (fucking) horrified if we treated guns like cars. Ok. You are proposing I should be able to buy any gun I want whenever I want regardless of size or capacity, automatic, or loud or silenced for cash without any checks or regulations at all? That the only requirement to use it in public is that I need a license - BUT - that carry license is good in all 50 states? ... that sounds good to me! Let’s do it. Yours is an argument based entirely in ignorance of gun laws. And maybe car laws too.
  - jonny_eh 7y ago
    > Ok. You are proposing I should be able to buy any gun I want whenever I want regardless of size or capacity, automatic, or loud or silenced for cash without any checks or regulations at all? What? No.
    - etrabroline 7y ago
      But that's how loosely cars are regulated, and you said you wanted guns regulated like cars. I think what you meant to say is to regulate guns much more strictly than cars.
    - kortilla 7y ago
      Well that’s how purchasing a car works, so... Maybe you’re confusing purchasing a car with licensing a car?
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    It's not a tradeoff between manufacturing restrictions and licensing restrictions.
  - Seirdy 7y ago
    I believe he was referring to licensing a car, since the following sentence referred to "simple licensing." > regardless of size or capacity Vehicles of different size/capacity do require different qualifications to drive. Certain classes of vehicles require a CDL for their class. See https://driving-tests.org/cdl-classification-licenses/ https://driving-tests.org/cdl-classification-licenses/. You also have to be 21+ in may states to even apply for them in many states.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  Last I checked, cars do not require any licensing to own. They require special licensing and often times yearly taxes to operate on public roads (but merely possessing them on public roads does not).
  - jonny_eh 7y ago
    You need to register the car, and that often requires proof of insurance, which requires a driver's license. Either way, my point still stands. You're quibbling over semantics. So few people want to buy a car just to not drive it, that we don't even consider it a problem.
    - kortilla 7y ago
      No, you don’t need to register the car if you don’t intend to drive it on public roads. See farms.
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      > You're quibbling over semantics. Not at all. He’s accurately reflecting gun laws and car laws. You are willfully hand waving the fact that cars are entirely unregulated except for use on public roads. As where guns are regulated in every facet of their existence. You are doing this because you read on a liberal site and heard the liberal talking points that guns are easier to get than a car with is wrong. It’s not semantic, your argument is invalid.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    > and often times yearly taxes to operate on public roads (but merely possessing them on public roads does not). In my jurisdiction one may not "move" or "leave standing" upon a public road an unregistered vehicle, in addition to not being permitted to "drive" it.
    - SkyBelow 7y ago
      Wow, you can't tow an unregistered vehicle? That definitely sounds off, but then I've seen even more silly laws in the past (such as one that forbids minors from playing pinball).

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago

Despite the vail of Wikipedia, your source is The Onion. Does the onion’s satirical joke take into account all the places there are no guns but this does still happens? Paris France, and Norway, have both had worse mass and school shootings than any in the USA ever.

icebraining 7y ago
Which school shootings in France and Norway have been worse than any in the USA?
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  Paris was the mass shooting I was referencing. 184 dead irrc. Norway, School summer camp in 2011. I suppose it’s not exactly what you think of when you think of skin shooting inside a school building, but the people killed were almost exclusively children. Perpetrator use a rifle that has not been legal in Norway for civilians.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    It wasn't a school summer camp - it was organized by a left-wing political party - and most of the people killed were adults. He used a Ruger Mini-14 and a Glock pistol for which he had a legal license as a civilian (for hunting and sport shooting respectively), purchased in Norway - the country with the second highest legal gun ownership rate in the EU - after he failed to illegally acquire guns in Prague.
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      > He used a Ruger Mini-14 and a Glock pistol for which he had a legal license as a civilian You have a source for that? I understood neither of those guns are to be civilian legal. Also... to the topic. If Norway’s extremely strict (draconian) gun laws didn’t prevent this shooting which was worse than any in US history; why would US benefit from them?