14 ms·

Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

298 points by thesash 16y ago

divtxt 16y ago
Early in my career, I asked a co-worker why he didn't complain about doing the shitty maintenance coding which no one wanted. His reply in essence: because someone has to do the crappy stuff. My respect for him went up that day, but I discovered the leadership aspect of that attitude only years later when I applied it as a manager. Thank you, Paul!
- jerf 16y ago
  Also, you the Mighty Developer of Mightiness, need to spend some time on the scut work so you can figure how to reduce the need for it.
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
...once. Just show that even you aren't too good to do the hard stuff. Don't waste your time washing dishes when you actually need to be doing other things.
- fefzero 16y ago
  I think the point here isn't just that the CEO was performing a mundane task, but that he was doing work that had to get done, even though it wasn't a desirable task. There was a giant pile of dishes - he cleaned them. The dishes were the thing that needed to get done. If he does it just once, I question his motives. This repeated behavior shows his true conviction.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    CEO's need to lead; exceptional behavior creates a buzz. This is morale building advice, not socialism. His motive? to show that no one is too good to do the hard stuff. Its a stunt, but its a lesson too. Everybody will get that.
    - guptaneil 16y ago
      Honest question: Is it still considered a stunt if nobody even knows that he's doing it? From the post, it seemed like he was just taking care of it with no fanfare or mention to the other employees.
      - scdc 16y ago
        Part of being a good boss is removing barriers so your staff can be productive. So I'd say it's not a stunt at all.
      - sloak 16y ago
        Like Macaulay said, "The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."
    - eftpotrm 16y ago
      For me, CEOs also need to enable their staff to produce their best performance. If the dirty dishes are getting in the way and the staff are honestly pushing to the limit elsewhere, IMHO it's a sensible enabling behaviour for the short term at least, regardless of who sees it. I know if I have a busy few days and the housework starts piling up my heart sinks a little when I get in and see the task ahead; I'm quite sure it'd be the same in an office if I had that problem. That can just as easily be the point of this sort of action.
jrockway 16y ago
Nope, now you're the dishwasher. At least in my experience; if you do something that other people don't want to do, you're now the "that thing" guy for life.
- guptaneil 16y ago
  Only if that's the only thing you're known for. I have a lot of respect for a CEO that runs the entire company and doesn't consider himself too high to do the grunt work too.
  - cosmicray 16y ago
    > doesn't consider himself too high to do the grunt work too go read 'Up the Organization' by Robert Towsend (written many years ago when he was the CEO of Avis Rent-a-car). Everyone at Avis (janitor, receptionist, CEO, all the way down the line) was required to work 1 or 2 days a year at the counter, renting cars. Helped everyone what business they were in, and why they had a job.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      Or, "this is why I don't know anyone smart that works at Avis". No offense, but the day I have to work as a bank teller is the day I stop working for a bank.
      - whatusername 16y ago
        And that is why Bank Teller software sucks.
        jarek 16y ago
        No, bank software "sucks" because it's built on literally decades, plural, of old systems that can not ever be disturbed or lose data.
        jrockway 16y ago
wccrawford 16y ago
The CEO only accomplishes 1 thing by doing the dishes: He shames everyone who sees him doing their job. He doesn't get my respect for it, especially if he does it more than once. It means he failed as a leader to get people to do their job, or even to have someone to do that job. Sometimes, it's necessary to roll up your sleeves and get some work done, but if you are doing other peoples' jobs, it means you aren't doing your own.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- damienkatz 16y ago
  > It means he failed as a leader to get people to do their job, or even to have someone to do that job. No, it means he's trying to get people to do their job and take pride. He's not failed, he just hasn't yet succeeded completely.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  I mostly agree, but not entirely with the last sentence. A CEO's job is to manage the affairs of the company such that it runs well, and if that means doing the dishes multiple times, then that's what that means. I agree that it's a public shaming if he does it right in front of everyone else, but sometimes you just have to buckle down and do what has to be done, even if the work is perceived to be below your station. Obviously work should be invested in hiring a permanent dishwasher, but it is conceivable that occasionally you may not be able to find one, especially if you're intent on abiding immigration laws.
- ajg1977 16y ago
  The point is that nobody has the job of "dishwasher". It's one of those tasks that falls between the cracks of everyone's job description - and if you're a startup those cracks can be pretty damn big. His CEO is showing by example what he expects of his employees - if you see something needs doing, even if it's not "your job", then roll up your sleeves and get it done.
- thesash 16y ago
  What if it isn't anyone's job to do the dishes? Early on in a startup there are a million things that don't fit under anyone's job description, but simply have to get done.
justin_vanw 16y ago
Now you're the dishwasher. You failed 'wanting to be a leader' when you didn't convince anyone to wash the dishes, which is why now you have to do it.
- jschau 16y ago
  Bonaparte had to clean artillery pieces in 1793 and 1796 on his way to Emperor.
trustfundbaby 16y ago
#cheeseAlert That was a pretty profound lesson I just learned.
nhashem 16y ago
All these "now you're the dishwasher, gg idiot" comments I think are taking this too literally. We've all probably been "the nice guy" in some situation that did some mundane/tedious task, ended up being that guy forever, and ended up resentful and vowed never to do it again. I don't think this is the point here though. In my opinion, the easiest way to command respect is to not think about commanding respect. If there's a problem, just solve it, and your peers and subordinates will respect you an order of magnitude more than if you just tried to motivate them with some "problem-solving" Power Point slides. One of my favorite examples I've seen of "washing the dishes:" - At a startup myself and four other engineers wanted attend a conference across town. Our cab was running late and we were in danger of missing the first sessions. The CEO chucked his keys at us (he drove a minivan) and his credit card and said, "take my car, it needs gas though so fill it up with my card on the way back." Did we expect we now had unlimited use of this guy's car forever and abuse it? Of course not. Did we totally respect him for trusting five guys to drive his car and made sure we had enough gas? Yes. Did we notice that he didn't even use the corporate credit card because only about 10% of that full tank of gas would be used for work purposes? Yes.
- tomkarlo 16y ago
  Funny, I had the exact same thing happen at a startup in the 90s - we had to pick someone up from the airport, we were late, so the CEO gave a couple of 22-year-olds the keys to her car to solve the problem. If a CEO won't step up in that way to get the ball moving forward in a company, why should they expect their salaried employees to?
- iamwil 16y ago
  This is rather along the lines of the idea of servant leadership that I've heard of, or some may call it "stepping up to the plate" Just like startups have the myth of the sole person having the million dollar idea in the basement, leadership has the myth of all glamour and charisma. In my first job, I had a boss named Lex. We were out doing a field test in Germany at an airfield. Of course, most of us were pretty busy doing this or that. Lex was overseeing things, but when he had nothing to do, he looked around for something to do, and was often seen with a broom cleaning up after us in the hanger. The idea is that shit needed to get done, and if the rest of us were busy getting shit done, he would do support work to make sure the rest of us would be able to do our jobs, even if that support work wasn't glamourous. In the end, I know he has the group's goals in mind as his intentions indicated through his actions of doing support work--anything to get things done--rather than for his own personal gain or ego. With that in mind, I'm more willing to follow with him at the helm.
j_s 16y ago
My source might stop at "Wash the Dishes" in this age. (Mark 9:35)
brudgers 16y ago
The article isn't "Want to be a CEO, Was the Dishes..." Leadership is facilitation, and being a leader ain't the same as being the boss. If dirty dishes are dragging on the team, taking care of them is just being part of the team. People respect supervisors when they believe the supervisor won't ask anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.
luminarious 16y ago
I do believe humility is a seriously underrated trait. You do the thing that needs to be done, no fanfare necessary.
jiffylu 16y ago
I think people are getting too caught up with the dish washing element of the story. The point of the story is about taking ownership and doing whatever it takes to move the company forward. Early on at Reddit, Alexis Ohanis did all the "bitch" work so that Steve Huffman could focus on coding. But if we must analyze the dishwashing aspect of the story, I think there's an element of "caring for your coworkers / employees" there. If no one washed the dishes, the company wasn't going to go bankrupt, but it would make other people's lives more miserable. As I'm working on my own startup, I can relate to that sentiment, because I not only care about growing the company, I also care about my cofounders' well being.
hammock 16y ago
I don't actually see washing the dishes as a "morale boosting" action. It's more about taking initiative. Dirty dishes is one of those public goods problems, where multiple people's dishes build up in the sink and no one washes them. The one who takes initiative and washes the whole sink as opposed to just his own is looked at as a leader, someone responsible and trustworthy, not necessarily a dishes bitch. Being a real leader is recognizing that there is no glamour in being responsible for the lives and fates of many; that's only a perception that others project onto you. It's a humbling job.
- VladRussian 16y ago
  >The one who takes initiative and washes the whole sink as opposed to just his own is looked at as a leader, someone responsible and trustworthy, not necessarily a dishes bitch A leadership lesson for you : The one who takes initiative and organizes those multiple people to wash the whole sink is looked at as a leader.
dancavallaro11 16y ago
I think this sentiment applies to more than just startups, but really any organization where there's a tendency to say "that's not my job" or "oh, if I don't do it someone else will". I think a lot of organizations could be more successful if more of their members -- employees of a startup, volunteers at a nonprofit, members of a club -- were willing to pitch in above (and below!) and beyond their title, experience, or pay.
TWSS 16y ago
I wonder if this would have been perceived differently if the CEO was a woman.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  I don't think it would be. That woman is the CEO for a reason.
- radu_floricica 16y ago
  Most likely there'd be somebody offering to do the dishes instead. Or so I'd hope.
zefhous 16y ago
It worked for Jesus...
- VladRussian 16y ago
  Do you really wish Jesus's career/fate for yourself or anybody else whom you wish well?
  - pig 16y ago
    Do you see a causation there?
VladRussian 16y ago
such a motto is actually an easy trick that skillfull leaders utilize to make their reports wash the dishes. To maintain its magic, you actually need to promote only one of the 100 dishwashers into a leader once in a 100 years, and fanfare that fact for the rest of the time.
edw519 16y ago
This reminds me of the litmus test my father had in his small business years ago. Every new employee, no matter where they worked, had the same first task: clean the bathroom. Lots of people never made it through the first day. I guess he figured that the best way to have employees who would "wash the dishes when nobody else will" is to only hire those who would.
- arctangent 16y ago
  I assume he wasn't hiring software developers...
- jarek 16y ago
  Maybe it's just my millenial entitlement, but that strikes me as a bad strategy. Unless the business was a cleaning or maintenance company, cleaning the bathroom seems far removed from anything relevant to my work and is in essence busywork. Questions that immediately spring into mind: is this some weird attempt at saving money by having employees do both their job and cleaning? Is this supposed to be some hazing ritual? Will this be representative of my time at the company? Pitching in when it needs to be cleaned? Sure. Boss paying attention to who voluntarily cleans it? Sure. Making employees clean it on their first day? Not so much. - millenial who cleans up after himself in the company kitchen
  - edw519 16y ago
    Did you understand the grandparent? This had nothing to do with relevance, busywork, hazing, saving money, or evaluating talent. It had a single purpose: to determine willingness to do an undesirable job. That's it. Which, interestingly, is just as important in a software start-up as it was in my father's business so many years ago.
    - jarek 16y ago
      I'm much more willing to do an undesirable job related to my position than cleaning. If you make it clear during interviewing that it's a small company and the employee will be expected to help with cleaning, then there's no problem. (For the sake of argument; I actually don't mind cleaning all that much but nevertheless it's not high on my list of things to do at work. I'd prefer fixing hairy old VBScript code.)
clofresh 16y ago
It's funny, when I went to visit a friend at Etsy after work hours, we were chatting in the kitchen and their CEO, Rob Kalin was washing dishes. My friend said to him, "That's awesome that you're the CEO and you're washing the dishes, Rob." And he replied, "Oh, it's better than when I was cleaning the bathrooms."
nuclearsandwich 16y ago
I love to do the dishes. Does this make me a natural born leader? In seriousness though I feel like the best way to manage in situations of ambiguously shared responsibility is not to be afraid of getting stuck with it because the slackers start to feel embarrassed around you and either pitch in or leave. There's little more cathartic in life than actual physical toil and while doing the dishes isn't all that rough, it presents an opportunity to occupy the hands and let the mind wander.
sloak 16y ago
Reminds me about the story of Netflix CEO. From http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/01/netflix-ceo-deflects-criticism-with-humor-in-form-of-albanian-army-dog-tags.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/0... [... Huffington coaxed Hastings to talk about leadership -- and one early experience that informed his leadership style. Hastings recalled how, as a 25-year-old software programmer, he would stay up all night, propelled by coffee. He'd leave an array of mugs on his desk. Once a week, he would discover the cups cleaned. One day, he arrived at work at 4 a.m. and walked into the bathroom to discover the company's CEO, sleeves rolled up, washing the collection of nasty cups. "That whole time, I thought it was the janitor," said Hastings, who said this had been occurring for a year. He asked his boss why. "He said, 'You do so much for this company, this is the only thing I can do for you.' ]
- VladRussian 16y ago
  'You do so much for this company, this is the only thing I can do for you.' Typical lie of a boss. He could have given him more options or a promotion for example.
  - sloak 16y ago
    I think it's a bit of a misquote. I've heard it as the CEO saying something like "since you're under a lot of time press to get the stuff out the door in a week, and I don't know how to code, this is the only thing I can do for you right now"
- bugsy 16y ago
  The real question is how much is the CEO getting paid to wash dishes? It would make more sense to hire someone for minimum wage to clean the bathrooms, empty trash and wash dishes, and free up time for the CEO to do other things.
- sushumna 16y ago
  Thanks for the nice post. as an aspiring startup guy, will definitely inculcate this attitude.
grellas 16y ago
Want to be a great leader? Work hard to develop extraordinary skills. Become an independent thinker and have the courage to follow your ideas. Show respect to others and never think more highly of yourself than you ought. Avoid bad habits of sloth, dissipation, dishonesty, and other qualities that would cause others to lose respect for you. Set goals that challenge you to do your best and follow diligently after them. Apply all this consistently to every part of your life, always striving to better yourself in even the smallest ways while maintaining integrity. In my student days, I worked in restaurants. I worked with a guy who was a Mexican immigrant, who washed dishes with me for several years in a busy restaurant. He worked hard. He was always upbeat. He never complained. And he radiated a sense of joy all about him. Why? Because he was content with what he was doing while obviously striving to improve himself at the same time. He would often sing while he worked. And that was inspiring. That man might never make a mark in the broader society but I could see he would be a fine leader wherever his life circumstances took him. These same qualities can be found in the startup world, as nicely reflected in this piece. But they are by no means limited to those who seek success in business. They are life qualities. It profits us all to follow them.
- Silhouette 16y ago
  I'm with you on most of that, but I think this point is a little dangerous: > Avoid bad habits of sloth, Willingness to pitch in when hard work really is called for is a necessary and valuable trait, of course. However, working hard when you don't have to is wasteful, and too many people confuse the two. Sometimes, a natural inclination to be "lazy" is a lot like trying to avoid unnecessary work by being smart. I would rather work for the boss who identified the problem and bought a dishwasher.
  - shasta 16y ago
    Being seen doing the dishes obviously made an impression on at least one employee. Maybe time optimization isn't the only factor?
    - Silhouette 16y ago
willhf 16y ago
I'm the dishwasher...bitch!
curtiswashngton 16y ago
It sounds like great advice, and it probably is in the right situation. I can tell you that at my current company I behaved in this way for years, and metaphorically, and sometimes literally, washed the dishes and went above and beyond to end up being pushed aside by office politics. When you treat the company as if it were yours or you were its CEO don't forget that it is not yours and you are not the CEO, otherwise you'll be in for a big wake up kick in the butt...
zby 16y ago
Ha ha - compare and contrast with the Gervais Principle!
ajaimk 16y ago
I used to run the student advisory board for our college. We had a new dean and we were hosting an event for the first time since he arrived. After the event, many people left including some of our members and we had 2 rooms to clean up. We all went into the first one cleaned it up and came to the second room to find our dean wiping all the tables. We hadn't asked or expected him (He's the fricking DEAN!!) but he took it on himself to help out. The trust he built in the students carried on and we still have a great relationship. Washing the dishes indeed.
bootload 16y ago
"... Want to be a leader? ..." Don't do what I say, do as I do ~ http://www.eduqna.com/Quotations/792-quotations-11.html http://www.eduqna.com/Quotations/792-quotations-11.html
elq 16y ago
Reminds me of this story - http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/09/guest-post-lessons-in-leadership-from-a-failed-startup/ http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/09/guest-post...
Xrissley 16y ago
Puzzling, the underlying arrogance of most people commenting against the article here. They really seem to have such a high view of themselves, their time, their value, the optimal use of all this by their employers, and a very low level of humility. Sounds like most of them really never had to work (just work, do a job to get money in) hard for food, and are bathed in the comfort of having learned a bit of computer science or something modern that doesn't get you too dirty, being equipped with a well functioning brain, and with all that, theydo really seem to think that it makes them a marvel and a gift to mankind. Wonder how many of them will end up being good leaders. Somehow they haven't motivated me to work for or with them. Guess that is a first clue. (and _I_ am the first to know that _I_ don't have leadership quality. But I have had the chance to observe and work for amazing leaders. Humility always was a key point of their personality)
bugsy 16y ago
When I am a guest at someone's house I always stay and help clean up, and wash dishes. Love to do my share. But it is foolish to be doing janitorial duties at work. A situation a few years ago will serve as an example. As an expert, my time was being billed out to clients at $150/hr and I was getting paid $50 of that. The company did not want to hire more engineers so I was working 60-100 billable hours every week, working massive overtime for which I was not paid since developers are "salary". I had not had a Saturday or Sunday off in over a year. On top of all this, the company decided to save money by firing the janitorial service, which was being paid $15 an hour, and whose workers earned minimum wage. It was announced that engineers would take turns vacuuming, taking out the trash, and cleaning dishes and and even cleaning out the fridge. I quit over that. Obviously because I wasn't a team player, right?
- mcherm 16y ago
  Wrong. Imagine the economy took a downturn and the company was having trouble finding placements for their consultants. Imagine that they decided to hang onto the employees even though they didn't have billable work for them (try hard: you may sprain your imagination). Imagine that the company's finances were in trouble over this, so they stopped the janitorial service. And then they asked you to take out the trash and clean the fridge. THAT is when it would be appropriate, and a team player would pitch in. Abusing employees is abuse whether it's excessive billable hours or excessive fridge-cleaning.
skrish 16y ago
In my first job at a startup, the bathroom was dirty on a rainy day & realised the janitor had not come into office. I knew customers were visiting office in the next hour, so I just cleaned it up and went back to work. Nobody ever knew about it. Similar such events like cleaning up our kitchen sink with lots of coffee cups has happened, but I never realised as if its not my 'job'. It was there to be done & when I realised the person responsible for that was not around I just did it. But later on when I worked for a bigger organization it hit me, how I felt about the company, as if I was running it and was wondering if I would ever do the same in this 'BIG' organization.
OllieJones 16y ago
Right on. Also, clean up the bathrooms when somebody's coming for an interview. Wipe the floor under the urinals and around the crappers. Why make a potential co-worker wonder whether working with you is worth living in filth? But, it's also good leadership to put up a note saying "There's a rumor going around that this kitchen (or bathroom) is magic, and cleans itself. It's false! false! Please do your part!"
jai_vasanthan 16y ago
Great article. In a startup environment, you should always see people taking responsibility whenever there is a crisis. They inspire the people around them to come up with solutions for the pressing issues. If you see someone who doesn't take responsibility and is always trying to run from it, or is always whining and never a part of the solution. Fire Them. Those who take responsibilities and are atleast willing to be part of the solution have the DNA to be in the startup culture.
mcantor 16y ago
I feel like leadership is a balance between two things: 1. Protecting your subordinates from ugly work (like doing dishes, emptying the garbage, or doing laborious maintenance coding) so they can focus on fulfilling their responsibilities 2. Delegating ugly work so you can focus on fulfilling your responsibilities
subbu 16y ago
Slightly off topic. But mundane tasks like dish washing help you unwind. I enjoy dish washing, pressing clothes or cutting vegetables at home because all those activities give me a lot of quite time without needing much effort from brain. The activity becomes even more enjoyable if I am taking a break from a programming task.

298 points by thesash 16y ago

Early in my career, I asked a co-worker why he didn't complain about doing the shitty maintenance coding which no one wanted. His reply in essence: because someone has to do the crappy stuff. My respect for him went up that day, but I discovered the leadership aspect of that attitude only years later when I applied it as a manager. Thank you, Paul!

jerf 16y ago
Also, you the Mighty Developer of Mightiness, need to spend some time on the scut work so you can figure how to reduce the need for it.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

...once. Just show that even you aren't too good to do the hard stuff. Don't waste your time washing dishes when you actually need to be doing other things.

fefzero 16y ago
I think the point here isn't just that the CEO was performing a mundane task, but that he was doing work that had to get done, even though it wasn't a desirable task. There was a giant pile of dishes - he cleaned them. The dishes were the thing that needed to get done. If he does it just once, I question his motives. This repeated behavior shows his true conviction.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  CEO's need to lead; exceptional behavior creates a buzz. This is morale building advice, not socialism. His motive? to show that no one is too good to do the hard stuff. Its a stunt, but its a lesson too. Everybody will get that.
  - guptaneil 16y ago
    Honest question: Is it still considered a stunt if nobody even knows that he's doing it? From the post, it seemed like he was just taking care of it with no fanfare or mention to the other employees.
    - scdc 16y ago
      Part of being a good boss is removing barriers so your staff can be productive. So I'd say it's not a stunt at all.
    - sloak 16y ago
      Like Macaulay said, "The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."
  - eftpotrm 16y ago
    For me, CEOs also need to enable their staff to produce their best performance. If the dirty dishes are getting in the way and the staff are honestly pushing to the limit elsewhere, IMHO it's a sensible enabling behaviour for the short term at least, regardless of who sees it. I know if I have a busy few days and the housework starts piling up my heart sinks a little when I get in and see the task ahead; I'm quite sure it'd be the same in an office if I had that problem. That can just as easily be the point of this sort of action.

jrockway 16y ago

Nope, now you're the dishwasher. At least in my experience; if you do something that other people don't want to do, you're now the "that thing" guy for life.

guptaneil 16y ago
Only if that's the only thing you're known for. I have a lot of respect for a CEO that runs the entire company and doesn't consider himself too high to do the grunt work too.
- cosmicray 16y ago
  > doesn't consider himself too high to do the grunt work too go read 'Up the Organization' by Robert Towsend (written many years ago when he was the CEO of Avis Rent-a-car). Everyone at Avis (janitor, receptionist, CEO, all the way down the line) was required to work 1 or 2 days a year at the counter, renting cars. Helped everyone what business they were in, and why they had a job.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Or, "this is why I don't know anyone smart that works at Avis". No offense, but the day I have to work as a bank teller is the day I stop working for a bank.
    - whatusername 16y ago
      And that is why Bank Teller software sucks.
      - jarek 16y ago
        No, bank software "sucks" because it's built on literally decades, plural, of old systems that can not ever be disturbed or lose data.
      - jrockway 16y ago

wccrawford 16y ago

The CEO only accomplishes 1 thing by doing the dishes: He shames everyone who sees him doing their job. He doesn't get my respect for it, especially if he does it more than once. It means he failed as a leader to get people to do their job, or even to have someone to do that job. Sometimes, it's necessary to roll up your sleeves and get some work done, but if you are doing other peoples' jobs, it means you aren't doing your own.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
damienkatz 16y ago
> It means he failed as a leader to get people to do their job, or even to have someone to do that job. No, it means he's trying to get people to do their job and take pride. He's not failed, he just hasn't yet succeeded completely.
cookiecaper 16y ago
I mostly agree, but not entirely with the last sentence. A CEO's job is to manage the affairs of the company such that it runs well, and if that means doing the dishes multiple times, then that's what that means. I agree that it's a public shaming if he does it right in front of everyone else, but sometimes you just have to buckle down and do what has to be done, even if the work is perceived to be below your station. Obviously work should be invested in hiring a permanent dishwasher, but it is conceivable that occasionally you may not be able to find one, especially if you're intent on abiding immigration laws.
ajg1977 16y ago
The point is that nobody has the job of "dishwasher". It's one of those tasks that falls between the cracks of everyone's job description - and if you're a startup those cracks can be pretty damn big. His CEO is showing by example what he expects of his employees - if you see something needs doing, even if it's not "your job", then roll up your sleeves and get it done.
thesash 16y ago
What if it isn't anyone's job to do the dishes? Early on in a startup there are a million things that don't fit under anyone's job description, but simply have to get done.

justin_vanw 16y ago

Now you're the dishwasher. You failed 'wanting to be a leader' when you didn't convince anyone to wash the dishes, which is why now you have to do it.

jschau 16y ago
Bonaparte had to clean artillery pieces in 1793 and 1796 on his way to Emperor.

trustfundbaby 16y ago

#cheeseAlert That was a pretty profound lesson I just learned.

nhashem 16y ago

All these "now you're the dishwasher, gg idiot" comments I think are taking this too literally. We've all probably been "the nice guy" in some situation that did some mundane/tedious task, ended up being that guy forever, and ended up resentful and vowed never to do it again. I don't think this is the point here though. In my opinion, the easiest way to command respect is to not think about commanding respect. If there's a problem, just solve it, and your peers and subordinates will respect you an order of magnitude more than if you just tried to motivate them with some "problem-solving" Power Point slides. One of my favorite examples I've seen of "washing the dishes:" - At a startup myself and four other engineers wanted attend a conference across town. Our cab was running late and we were in danger of missing the first sessions. The CEO chucked his keys at us (he drove a minivan) and his credit card and said, "take my car, it needs gas though so fill it up with my card on the way back." Did we expect we now had unlimited use of this guy's car forever and abuse it? Of course not. Did we totally respect him for trusting five guys to drive his car and made sure we had enough gas? Yes. Did we notice that he didn't even use the corporate credit card because only about 10% of that full tank of gas would be used for work purposes? Yes.

tomkarlo 16y ago
Funny, I had the exact same thing happen at a startup in the 90s - we had to pick someone up from the airport, we were late, so the CEO gave a couple of 22-year-olds the keys to her car to solve the problem. If a CEO won't step up in that way to get the ball moving forward in a company, why should they expect their salaried employees to?
iamwil 16y ago
This is rather along the lines of the idea of servant leadership that I've heard of, or some may call it "stepping up to the plate" Just like startups have the myth of the sole person having the million dollar idea in the basement, leadership has the myth of all glamour and charisma. In my first job, I had a boss named Lex. We were out doing a field test in Germany at an airfield. Of course, most of us were pretty busy doing this or that. Lex was overseeing things, but when he had nothing to do, he looked around for something to do, and was often seen with a broom cleaning up after us in the hanger. The idea is that shit needed to get done, and if the rest of us were busy getting shit done, he would do support work to make sure the rest of us would be able to do our jobs, even if that support work wasn't glamourous. In the end, I know he has the group's goals in mind as his intentions indicated through his actions of doing support work--anything to get things done--rather than for his own personal gain or ego. With that in mind, I'm more willing to follow with him at the helm.

j_s 16y ago

My source might stop at "Wash the Dishes" in this age. (Mark 9:35)

brudgers 16y ago

The article isn't "Want to be a CEO, Was the Dishes..." Leadership is facilitation, and being a leader ain't the same as being the boss. If dirty dishes are dragging on the team, taking care of them is just being part of the team. People respect supervisors when they believe the supervisor won't ask anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.

luminarious 16y ago

I do believe humility is a seriously underrated trait. You do the thing that needs to be done, no fanfare necessary.

jiffylu 16y ago

I think people are getting too caught up with the dish washing element of the story. The point of the story is about taking ownership and doing whatever it takes to move the company forward. Early on at Reddit, Alexis Ohanis did all the "bitch" work so that Steve Huffman could focus on coding. But if we must analyze the dishwashing aspect of the story, I think there's an element of "caring for your coworkers / employees" there. If no one washed the dishes, the company wasn't going to go bankrupt, but it would make other people's lives more miserable. As I'm working on my own startup, I can relate to that sentiment, because I not only care about growing the company, I also care about my cofounders' well being.

hammock 16y ago

I don't actually see washing the dishes as a "morale boosting" action. It's more about taking initiative. Dirty dishes is one of those public goods problems, where multiple people's dishes build up in the sink and no one washes them. The one who takes initiative and washes the whole sink as opposed to just his own is looked at as a leader, someone responsible and trustworthy, not necessarily a dishes bitch. Being a real leader is recognizing that there is no glamour in being responsible for the lives and fates of many; that's only a perception that others project onto you. It's a humbling job.

VladRussian 16y ago
>The one who takes initiative and washes the whole sink as opposed to just his own is looked at as a leader, someone responsible and trustworthy, not necessarily a dishes bitch A leadership lesson for you : The one who takes initiative and organizes those multiple people to wash the whole sink is looked at as a leader.

dancavallaro11 16y ago

I think this sentiment applies to more than just startups, but really any organization where there's a tendency to say "that's not my job" or "oh, if I don't do it someone else will". I think a lot of organizations could be more successful if more of their members -- employees of a startup, volunteers at a nonprofit, members of a club -- were willing to pitch in above (and below!) and beyond their title, experience, or pay.

TWSS 16y ago

I wonder if this would have been perceived differently if the CEO was a woman.

BrandonM 16y ago
I don't think it would be. That woman is the CEO for a reason.
radu_floricica 16y ago
Most likely there'd be somebody offering to do the dishes instead. Or so I'd hope.

zefhous 16y ago

It worked for Jesus...

VladRussian 16y ago
Do you really wish Jesus's career/fate for yourself or anybody else whom you wish well?
- pig 16y ago
  Do you see a causation there?

VladRussian 16y ago

such a motto is actually an easy trick that skillfull leaders utilize to make their reports wash the dishes. To maintain its magic, you actually need to promote only one of the 100 dishwashers into a leader once in a 100 years, and fanfare that fact for the rest of the time.

edw519 16y ago

This reminds me of the litmus test my father had in his small business years ago. Every new employee, no matter where they worked, had the same first task: clean the bathroom. Lots of people never made it through the first day. I guess he figured that the best way to have employees who would "wash the dishes when nobody else will" is to only hire those who would.

arctangent 16y ago
I assume he wasn't hiring software developers...
jarek 16y ago
Maybe it's just my millenial entitlement, but that strikes me as a bad strategy. Unless the business was a cleaning or maintenance company, cleaning the bathroom seems far removed from anything relevant to my work and is in essence busywork. Questions that immediately spring into mind: is this some weird attempt at saving money by having employees do both their job and cleaning? Is this supposed to be some hazing ritual? Will this be representative of my time at the company? Pitching in when it needs to be cleaned? Sure. Boss paying attention to who voluntarily cleans it? Sure. Making employees clean it on their first day? Not so much. - millenial who cleans up after himself in the company kitchen
- edw519 16y ago
  Did you understand the grandparent? This had nothing to do with relevance, busywork, hazing, saving money, or evaluating talent. It had a single purpose: to determine willingness to do an undesirable job. That's it. Which, interestingly, is just as important in a software start-up as it was in my father's business so many years ago.
  - jarek 16y ago
    I'm much more willing to do an undesirable job related to my position than cleaning. If you make it clear during interviewing that it's a small company and the employee will be expected to help with cleaning, then there's no problem. (For the sake of argument; I actually don't mind cleaning all that much but nevertheless it's not high on my list of things to do at work. I'd prefer fixing hairy old VBScript code.)

clofresh 16y ago

It's funny, when I went to visit a friend at Etsy after work hours, we were chatting in the kitchen and their CEO, Rob Kalin was washing dishes. My friend said to him, "That's awesome that you're the CEO and you're washing the dishes, Rob." And he replied, "Oh, it's better than when I was cleaning the bathrooms."

nuclearsandwich 16y ago

I love to do the dishes. Does this make me a natural born leader? In seriousness though I feel like the best way to manage in situations of ambiguously shared responsibility is not to be afraid of getting stuck with it because the slackers start to feel embarrassed around you and either pitch in or leave. There's little more cathartic in life than actual physical toil and while doing the dishes isn't all that rough, it presents an opportunity to occupy the hands and let the mind wander.

sloak 16y ago

Reminds me about the story of Netflix CEO. From http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/01/netflix-ceo-deflects-criticism-with-humor-in-form-of-albanian-army-dog-tags.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/0... [... Huffington coaxed Hastings to talk about leadership -- and one early experience that informed his leadership style. Hastings recalled how, as a 25-year-old software programmer, he would stay up all night, propelled by coffee. He'd leave an array of mugs on his desk. Once a week, he would discover the cups cleaned. One day, he arrived at work at 4 a.m. and walked into the bathroom to discover the company's CEO, sleeves rolled up, washing the collection of nasty cups. "That whole time, I thought it was the janitor," said Hastings, who said this had been occurring for a year. He asked his boss why. "He said, 'You do so much for this company, this is the only thing I can do for you.' ]

VladRussian 16y ago
'You do so much for this company, this is the only thing I can do for you.' Typical lie of a boss. He could have given him more options or a promotion for example.
- sloak 16y ago
  I think it's a bit of a misquote. I've heard it as the CEO saying something like "since you're under a lot of time press to get the stuff out the door in a week, and I don't know how to code, this is the only thing I can do for you right now"
bugsy 16y ago
The real question is how much is the CEO getting paid to wash dishes? It would make more sense to hire someone for minimum wage to clean the bathrooms, empty trash and wash dishes, and free up time for the CEO to do other things.
sushumna 16y ago
Thanks for the nice post. as an aspiring startup guy, will definitely inculcate this attitude.

grellas 16y ago

Want to be a great leader? Work hard to develop extraordinary skills. Become an independent thinker and have the courage to follow your ideas. Show respect to others and never think more highly of yourself than you ought. Avoid bad habits of sloth, dissipation, dishonesty, and other qualities that would cause others to lose respect for you. Set goals that challenge you to do your best and follow diligently after them. Apply all this consistently to every part of your life, always striving to better yourself in even the smallest ways while maintaining integrity. In my student days, I worked in restaurants. I worked with a guy who was a Mexican immigrant, who washed dishes with me for several years in a busy restaurant. He worked hard. He was always upbeat. He never complained. And he radiated a sense of joy all about him. Why? Because he was content with what he was doing while obviously striving to improve himself at the same time. He would often sing while he worked. And that was inspiring. That man might never make a mark in the broader society but I could see he would be a fine leader wherever his life circumstances took him. These same qualities can be found in the startup world, as nicely reflected in this piece. But they are by no means limited to those who seek success in business. They are life qualities. It profits us all to follow them.

Silhouette 16y ago
I'm with you on most of that, but I think this point is a little dangerous: > Avoid bad habits of sloth, Willingness to pitch in when hard work really is called for is a necessary and valuable trait, of course. However, working hard when you don't have to is wasteful, and too many people confuse the two. Sometimes, a natural inclination to be "lazy" is a lot like trying to avoid unnecessary work by being smart. I would rather work for the boss who identified the problem and bought a dishwasher.
- shasta 16y ago
  Being seen doing the dishes obviously made an impression on at least one employee. Maybe time optimization isn't the only factor?
  - Silhouette 16y ago

willhf 16y ago

I'm the dishwasher...bitch!

curtiswashngton 16y ago

It sounds like great advice, and it probably is in the right situation. I can tell you that at my current company I behaved in this way for years, and metaphorically, and sometimes literally, washed the dishes and went above and beyond to end up being pushed aside by office politics. When you treat the company as if it were yours or you were its CEO don't forget that it is not yours and you are not the CEO, otherwise you'll be in for a big wake up kick in the butt...

zby 16y ago

Ha ha - compare and contrast with the Gervais Principle!

ajaimk 16y ago

I used to run the student advisory board for our college. We had a new dean and we were hosting an event for the first time since he arrived. After the event, many people left including some of our members and we had 2 rooms to clean up. We all went into the first one cleaned it up and came to the second room to find our dean wiping all the tables. We hadn't asked or expected him (He's the fricking DEAN!!) but he took it on himself to help out. The trust he built in the students carried on and we still have a great relationship. Washing the dishes indeed.

bootload 16y ago

"... Want to be a leader? ..." Don't do what I say, do as I do ~ http://www.eduqna.com/Quotations/792-quotations-11.html http://www.eduqna.com/Quotations/792-quotations-11.html

elq 16y ago

Reminds me of this story - http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/09/guest-post-lessons-in-leadership-from-a-failed-startup/ http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/09/guest-post...

Xrissley 16y ago

Puzzling, the underlying arrogance of most people commenting against the article here. They really seem to have such a high view of themselves, their time, their value, the optimal use of all this by their employers, and a very low level of humility. Sounds like most of them really never had to work (just work, do a job to get money in) hard for food, and are bathed in the comfort of having learned a bit of computer science or something modern that doesn't get you too dirty, being equipped with a well functioning brain, and with all that, theydo really seem to think that it makes them a marvel and a gift to mankind. Wonder how many of them will end up being good leaders. Somehow they haven't motivated me to work for or with them. Guess that is a first clue. (and _I_ am the first to know that _I_ don't have leadership quality. But I have had the chance to observe and work for amazing leaders. Humility always was a key point of their personality)

bugsy 16y ago

When I am a guest at someone's house I always stay and help clean up, and wash dishes. Love to do my share. But it is foolish to be doing janitorial duties at work. A situation a few years ago will serve as an example. As an expert, my time was being billed out to clients at $150/hr and I was getting paid $50 of that. The company did not want to hire more engineers so I was working 60-100 billable hours every week, working massive overtime for which I was not paid since developers are "salary". I had not had a Saturday or Sunday off in over a year. On top of all this, the company decided to save money by firing the janitorial service, which was being paid $15 an hour, and whose workers earned minimum wage. It was announced that engineers would take turns vacuuming, taking out the trash, and cleaning dishes and and even cleaning out the fridge. I quit over that. Obviously because I wasn't a team player, right?

mcherm 16y ago
Wrong. Imagine the economy took a downturn and the company was having trouble finding placements for their consultants. Imagine that they decided to hang onto the employees even though they didn't have billable work for them (try hard: you may sprain your imagination). Imagine that the company's finances were in trouble over this, so they stopped the janitorial service. And then they asked you to take out the trash and clean the fridge. THAT is when it would be appropriate, and a team player would pitch in. Abusing employees is abuse whether it's excessive billable hours or excessive fridge-cleaning.

skrish 16y ago

In my first job at a startup, the bathroom was dirty on a rainy day & realised the janitor had not come into office. I knew customers were visiting office in the next hour, so I just cleaned it up and went back to work. Nobody ever knew about it. Similar such events like cleaning up our kitchen sink with lots of coffee cups has happened, but I never realised as if its not my 'job'. It was there to be done & when I realised the person responsible for that was not around I just did it. But later on when I worked for a bigger organization it hit me, how I felt about the company, as if I was running it and was wondering if I would ever do the same in this 'BIG' organization.

OllieJones 16y ago

Right on. Also, clean up the bathrooms when somebody's coming for an interview. Wipe the floor under the urinals and around the crappers. Why make a potential co-worker wonder whether working with you is worth living in filth? But, it's also good leadership to put up a note saying "There's a rumor going around that this kitchen (or bathroom) is magic, and cleans itself. It's false! false! Please do your part!"

jai_vasanthan 16y ago

Great article. In a startup environment, you should always see people taking responsibility whenever there is a crisis. They inspire the people around them to come up with solutions for the pressing issues. If you see someone who doesn't take responsibility and is always trying to run from it, or is always whining and never a part of the solution. Fire Them. Those who take responsibilities and are atleast willing to be part of the solution have the DNA to be in the startup culture.

mcantor 16y ago

I feel like leadership is a balance between two things: 1. Protecting your subordinates from ugly work (like doing dishes, emptying the garbage, or doing laborious maintenance coding) so they can focus on fulfilling their responsibilities 2. Delegating ugly work so you can focus on fulfilling your responsibilities

subbu 16y ago

Slightly off topic. But mundane tasks like dish washing help you unwind. I enjoy dish washing, pressing clothes or cutting vegetables at home because all those activities give me a lot of quite time without needing much effort from brain. The activity becomes even more enjoyable if I am taking a break from a programming task.