6 ms·

What's the worst that could happen with my phone data?

65 points by edward 7y ago

2T1Qka0rEiPr 7y ago
If you want to shock your colleagues into action, one effective way is to plug their email addresses into haveibeenpwned, and tell them: > Alice, YOU were exposed in the XYZ breach. Your $identifiable_information IS publicly available. If you used the same password on XYZ as you do on other services, those services ARE vulnerable. If any of those services allow you to access your email, ALMOST ALL of the services you used are vulnerable. You should change them as soon as possible.
- trashcat 7y ago
  It's a shame that most people will just add a number to their current password though.
  - nothrabannosir 7y ago
    After talking this through with many non technical people, I have become of the opinion the shame is ours. Why do we keep pushing this patently unsafe authentication mechanism? It should never have been allowed in the first place, but now with hardware keys readily available there really is no more excuse. I understand there is a first mover disadvantage to disallowing password-only auth, but that’s on us. Our collective timorous prevaricating is to blame for the misuse of passwords by end users. Because, unlike them, we do know better.
    - kardos 7y ago
      Hardware keys get lost, what is the fix for that?
      - thomk 7y ago
        Hardware keys embedded under your skin. What could possibly go wrong with that? Joking aside, hardware keys will absolutely get lost. Even car keys get lost around here on a fairly regular basis. Fingerprints maybe?
        kardos 7y ago
        Probably not: https://www.csoonline.com/article/3268837/busted-cops-use-fingerprint-pulled-from-a-whatsapp-photo-to-id-drug-dealer.html https://www.csoonline.com/article/3268837/busted-cops-use-fi...
        stevenicr 7y ago
        and when the fingerprint database is stolen and shared with multiple adversarial parties? they now have your password and its gonna be hard to update / change yours. This happened with the opm hack and a big one in India or Indonesia or something not too long ago I think.
      - marcosdumay 7y ago
        Backups. Either in backuping the data, or in enabling several tokens for the same service. The problem is that the first one is frowned upon for good reasons (but maybe not as good as they seem), while nobody supports the second one. So, yes, currently depending on hardware keys is dangerous.
      - nothrabannosir 7y ago
        The same as real keys: you make a copy. If you don’t, you have to call someone to get it fixed, which is an expensive hassle. It’s an intuitive model that everyone already groks. No fragile user re-education necessary.
        kardos 7y ago
        That doesn't seem right: https://support.yubico.com/support/solutions/articles/15000010242-can-i-duplicate-or-back-up-a-yubikey- https://support.yubico.com/support/solutions/articles/150000...
    - 91iejrj20310 7y ago
      It's a shame that operating systems exist with no functioning system-wide API for authentication, let alone storing passwords. That would change things. Just look how Apple now inserts long random passwords in registration forms and immediately saved it. That's how users will use secure authentication. By helping them, not telling them to do better on their own.
  - rolph 7y ago
    go to some random video chat, and record the reactions when you offer full data on some plain nothing to hide person, then show that to those with nothing to hide In my experience there is a realization that its not about hiding your data, its about hiding from a particular type of netizen that amplifies to an extreme
  - enriquto 7y ago
    what is a shame is the mere existence of the password system, in a world where we have public key cryptography.
- sroussey 7y ago
  Yeah, that’s the first step we take with PrivicyPal. Then data brokers, then Google/Facebook et al. While there are others, Troy Hunt’s HIBP is a great resource, and we are indebted to his work there.
- ycombinete 7y ago
  I make a habit of getting friends and family to do this. And, it’s sad to say, but even this doesn’t always elicit the sort of response one would think reasonable
  - ghostpepper 7y ago
    Agreed. The typical response seems to be “what’s the worst that someone could do with that info?” The NYTimes article attempts to answer that question but I’m not sure how successful it is. The gist seems to be that your data affects others, and you may case later about data that you don’t care about now. Nothing about identity theft, answers to secret questions, etc. Some people I talk to already get it, that it’s hard to foresee the abuses, but for most people, if it doesn’t end with a hacker raiding their bank account then it’s not really a problem .
- inetknght 7y ago
  > Alice, YOUR physical address and family names are available in public information aggregation site ABC. Did your bank ask you what your mother's maiden name is "for security"? Did your HR set your password to YourLastName+StreetNumber?
- amelius 7y ago
  > If you want to shock your colleagues into action Another way to shock your colleagues is making them point their browsers at https://myactivity.google.com https://myactivity.google.com (and let them scroll down) Part of the information shown there is likely to be part of what's in their phones.
- jcims 7y ago
  Another way would be to get that 50B location point data that some analysis was done on recently, and send them a list of all of the people that visited their home and all the homes the people in their home visited. Do that enough and you'll likely discover some clandestine activities.
- n3k5 7y ago
  Hmmm … I wonder into what kind of action they'd most likely be shocked. > So you took a private email address I gave you in confidentiality and handed it over to some hacker site which, without making any verification that you own that address, gave you a list of services I'd signed up for? Bob, YOU are now on my shit list. Your face IS punchable. You should get lost as soon as possible. Maybe it would be better to tell them something along the lines of: "I just improved my internet security, and so can you! Check out these resources, plus some background information from trustworthy sources." But which tools and reports should I recommend? In this context, "that talk I saw at Defcon" doesn't cut it. Recommending a site that endorses exactly one password management service also seems questionable; I'm concerned that if I tell colleagues to trust HIBP, I'm priming them to fall for anti-malware protection rackets. How about the venerable NYT? They must have some great stuff. But then there's also content such as TFA, in which a graphics director and a writer from the opinion desk deliver bons mots such as: "None of us really has a choice to participate in tracking or not — the system just serves up location data, usually without us noticing. […] When we participate in this system, we're tacitly endorsing it." On a page that attempts to contact DoubleClick and Google Analytics. (Which I did notice, and, unlike the NYT, chose not to participate in.) When someone asks for advice or I noticed them make a security boo-boo, I can teach them the bare minimum (basic stuff such as how to use unique credentials for every site and service). But when it comes to doing my part in spreading the word about being more proactive than the bare minimum … halp! Edit: Credit where credit is due: I just finished reading TFA and discovered the section "What about The Times?", which has links to "This Article Is Spying on You" [0] and "How The Times Thinks About Privacy" [1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/opinion/data-privacy-tracking.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/opinion/data-privacy-trac... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/opinion/sulzberger-new-york-times-privacy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/opinion/sulzberger-new-yo...
- AndrewKemendo 7y ago
  When I've done something like this in the past, most of the responses I get are shrugs and, "I guess I'll change that password, do you have any tips on good passwords?" A few people will go off with their lighthearted hyperbole "I'm moving to a cabin in the woods!" To which I respond, it's much easier to track a n=1 with a unique heat signature in the middle of nowhere - should someone be so inclined.
quelsolaar 7y ago
When someone asks me why privacy matters, usually followed by "who cares about the details of my life?", or "I have nothing to hide", I ask them if they know who Milly Dowler was. Milly Dowler, was a 13 year old girl who was abducted and murdered on her way back from school. It took months to find her body. During this time her family keep leaving desperate messages on her phones answering service. What they didn't know what that, news papers had hacked her voice mail and listened to and printed their pleas for her to return their calls. When the voice box eventually became full, the reporters deleted messages from the phone service so that they could get new materiel. When the family noticed that the voice box had been emptied, it gave them hope that she was still alive and was listening to her messages. Much later they where devastated to learn the body had been found. If you would have asked anyone in the Dowler family the day before Milly's disappearance if they where worried that some one might hack their voice mail they would probably have replied "No, Not really, we have nothing to hide and who would really care to listen to that?"
- thdrdt 7y ago
  A simpler example is what a blind programmer once posted on HN. As I remember he wanted a job and wanted to hide the fact he is blind because most companies just turned him down immediately.
- stevenicr 7y ago
  Only way I've been able to get older people to pay attention is by telling them that agreeing to the terms along with your other friends and family collectively, you all have gotten your kids to use and accept those terms, now all of your daughters pics are autouploaded to fbook (not just the ones you chose to share, all photos on the device) - you agreed to those terms of access remember? and lots of enginerds get to see them. microsofts drive app autodetects nude and almost nude pics and sends a copy to humans for verification automatically. snap gets lots of pics that your kids are trying to hide, and keeps a copy for thousands of people to access behind closed doors. Same with instagram, which also allows us to buy pics of your kids and use them in ads for dirty dating sites and herpes commercials.. since you don't use signal you are making your children's texts, pics and videos less safe. Oh, and the banks auto sell your shopping buys to groups of us enginerds. we may have you or members of your fam on the list of buyers of 'massagers' from certain stores.. we love those walgreens points cards, and so does google and fbook who also collect your offline purchasing data and share. thanks for participating in our surveillance economy, we love to watch, and we give you cheaper things for letting us. its win win. don't believe me? call your bank and ask them if they share your debit card purchases with me. have a nice day.
Gusen 7y ago
Read the last few updates to this document and see how bad it can be: FBI Director Wray, AG Barr, SoD Shanahan, & SoS Pompeo all raped boys & were paid billions in bribes for a Soros & Koch funded child rape org. So did Trump & his 'impeachment' team Nadler,Schiff,Mueller.So did media moguls Redstone,Murdoch,Moonves. What are they setting up? Who can arrest them? Download the video\audio file, put on headphones and turn up the volume. You will hear these people committing these crimes. Audio was broadcast into my apartment by outdated surveillance equipment illegally embedded within my walls. This very same technology was being used to broadcast me to the internet for five years without my consent. I own this footage. Please use this to prosecute all found within. Note:: I am obliviously speaking throughout the video, and it can be quite loud at times relative to the desired content. The are dozens more links, including these, that can be found in this 139 page PDF doc, last updated four days ago: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ... All members of the "Illuminati"; "....an underground organization of homosexuals and child rapists..." (from page 26: Barack Obama with Jack Dorsey). President Donald Trump: Accepting a $4 billion dollar bribe here at 10:18 am on the 4thJan2019: 3JanCh3_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77YG0Vr/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77... 3JanCh2_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LUmVygl_q0XVs8h2cWr8jZl-24fY0vBB/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LUmVygl_q0XVs8h2cWr8jZl-24f... 3JanCh4_1000-1100.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZpP1pJbJakBgg-y-MWNozTxp3wJojHge/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZpP1pJbJakBgg-y-MWNozTxp3wJ... President Trump rapes and kills a 12 boys, including five5 boys in a who can rape five boys to death the fastest' game: 14JanCh3_600.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ufPmglde9Mep0m6xYMJ9c4TWTjj258zB/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ufPmglde9Mep0m6xYMJ9c4TWTjj... 14JanCh2_600-700.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/136qLJdEn8eCs9tI4QtIxl4opW_Lw_gCF/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/136qLJdEn8eCs9tI4QtIxl4opW_L... Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi: -Accepting a $3 billion dollar bribe at 1033 am on the 17th of Jan 2019 to ensure Asian boys can get through the border at "Monterey" undocumented to be raped: 17JanCh3_949-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1CZUvmE/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1C... 17JanCh4_1017-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-nWEQbempkVZSz230j9wTyduZNjDmnk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-nWEQbempkVZSz230j9wTyduZN... Speaker Nancy Pelosi also "preps" boys with First Lady Melania Trump, defined as in she performs oral sex on the boys’ penis and anus, as a child rapist like Henry Porter would, while trying to remove fecal matter from the boy prior to handing them over to be raped and then subsequently murdered, for Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who apparently decides he would rather just have ten billion dollars instead. US Attorney for Western New York James Kennedy rapes these boys instead: 12JanCh3_1533-1638.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AgFkDsbPbI4b5Xd3Wbz2EVNNx25kW2Oz/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AgFkDsbPbI4b5Xd3Wbz2EVNNx25... Attorney General William Barr with FBI Deputy Director Christopher Wray raped and killed boys for billions in bribes in Buffalo, New York on the 17th Jan 2019 7:50 am: 18JanCh4_700.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UIdZkS5ZVksZdHYsnHk2t5losi0N0Bp7/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UIdZkS5ZVksZdHYsnHk2t5losi0... 18JanCh2_700.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DFK8IAxm5pQVqZv9L518nfgP7_odB2Um/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DFK8IAxm5pQVqZv9L518nfgP7_o... 18JanCh3_725-.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG5ej59Ic8RT9UhbyMdwT0BDcKIifGGm/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG5ej59Ic8RT9UhbyMdwT0BDcKI... Secretary of State Michael Pompeo and Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan raped and killed boys on 5th of Jan2019 17:39 for billions in bribes: 5JanCh3_1600-1800.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ghgmNrQvJ8WfJ2TsDVx1ruDU36hrhx6S/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ghgmNrQvJ8WfJ2TsDVx1ruDU36h... 5JanCh2_1721-1818 mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eSlD4otX4KZqWXboQM92Mu-6J02Mjwrg/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eSlD4otX4KZqWXboQM92Mu-6J02... Leaders of the "impeachment" effort Jerrold Nadler, Robert Mueller, and also with Adam Schiff all rape and kill boys between 11:20pm and 1:10am: 14JanCh4_2300-0000.mp3 Nadler starts at about twenty mins in. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kuvv2Zmbw5Jw7onbRI2hCZ0M8FU66GuU/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kuvv2Zmbw5Jw7onbRI2hCZ0M8FU... 14JanCh2_2304-2359mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nofp5xF-aXXcCSgQVwj30KlzE9WLr1x1/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nofp5xF-aXXcCSgQVwj30KlzE9W... Mueller at 12:25am, and Schiff starts 12:55-ish: 15JanCh2_000-100.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EsmHfguwBuo2PbavJ1WYyhiML62tgCkj/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EsmHfguwBuo2PbavJ1WYyhiML62... 15JanCh2_100-200.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZnWRnBryalNQu2yJmfJUdS2pA_rGSFH/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZnWRnBryalNQu2yJmfJUdS2pA_... 15JanCh4_000-100.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEDJR6jb6ARpcNnWJTokBUKb2J2OQnwZ/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEDJR6jb6ARpcNnWJTokBUKb2J2... 15JanCh4_100-200.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/173aYWvWHH4VGht1h_2nM0IMdw746LeCL/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/173aYWvWHH4VGht1h_2nM0IMdw74... Complete Media Protection: Lester Holt, of NBC Nightly News, apparently a member of the Illuminati since the 1980's, along with ABC Nightly News lead anchor David Muir, stop over to the Porter studio in Buffalo, New York on 14Jan2019 at 5:00 am. They both rape and kill about two dozen boys by 6:00 am. Muir starts around 5:15 am, then Holt about 538 am. Multi-billionaire Rupert Murdoch, owner of News Corp and also Fox Corporation, takes his turn after Holt. Video links below: 14JanCh3_500-601.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX3o7UL/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX... 14JanCh2_530-600.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1RwidV/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1... Adding to the media protection and reason this is not picked up by the media, CBS and Viacom owner Sumner Redstone with Leslie Moonves rape and kill boys following the President. 14JanCh3_700.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXaB4aI0/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXa... 14JanCh2_700-800.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWYKfRDp/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWY... 142pg PDF [last updated on: DEC|27|2019]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ...
heurist 7y ago
I've directly sampled a lot of mobile location data. The data is sparse. Most people do not have their location data distributed, and of those who do most have very few pings, and with Apple/Android now explicitly asking for location permissions the utility of the data which is available will decrease dramatically. Google, Apple, Verizon etc have significantly more due to their centrality in the technology but to my knowledge directly sell none of it. I understand the concern to for privacy but NYT makes the issue seem larger than it is.
- darkkindness 7y ago
  Do you believe the piece linked in the first paragraph[0] describes an outlier in terms of data collection? It shows how location data from a single low-lying location tracking company had enough pings to reliably pinpoint home and work locations of individuals, enough to de-anonymize and interview them. This does not seem like sparse data. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/locat... (discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21833718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21833718)
  - heurist 7y ago
    It's definitely possible, but when I have looked at the movement data myself maybe 0.5% of houses in my city had any pings. Half the time there is no way to tell if the pings come from residents or visitors. So the odds of being one of those people is low. Minimal effort to secure your privacy can prevent you from being one of these people. People should also be aware that their name and addresses are already available without mobile data. My opinion is that the data has tremendous potential to make retail/housing markets more energy efficient and should be available for commercial applications, though maybe sellers/consumers of the data should be licensed. Won't go into detail but I think it will ultimately help in the fight against climate change.
toohotatopic 7y ago
Are most people not worried that at one point, algorithms will understand us on a subconscious level? Like the existing algorithm that can tell if somebody is depressed by the way they are dancing? Life will be like entering an evil cult, where advertisers can abuse our deepest vulnerabilities to the benefit of whoever pays the most.
8bitsrule 7y ago
I'd be very surprised to hear about how to track a particular phone with the battery removed.
- georgeplusplus 7y ago
  The answer However, is not surprising. You add another power source the user doesn’t know about.

65 points by edward 7y ago

If you want to shock your colleagues into action, one effective way is to plug their email addresses into haveibeenpwned, and tell them: > Alice, YOU were exposed in the XYZ breach. Your $identifiable_information IS publicly available. If you used the same password on XYZ as you do on other services, those services ARE vulnerable. If any of those services allow you to access your email, ALMOST ALL of the services you used are vulnerable. You should change them as soon as possible.

trashcat 7y ago
It's a shame that most people will just add a number to their current password though.
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  After talking this through with many non technical people, I have become of the opinion the shame is ours. Why do we keep pushing this patently unsafe authentication mechanism? It should never have been allowed in the first place, but now with hardware keys readily available there really is no more excuse. I understand there is a first mover disadvantage to disallowing password-only auth, but that’s on us. Our collective timorous prevaricating is to blame for the misuse of passwords by end users. Because, unlike them, we do know better.
  - kardos 7y ago
    Hardware keys get lost, what is the fix for that?
    - thomk 7y ago
      Hardware keys embedded under your skin. What could possibly go wrong with that? Joking aside, hardware keys will absolutely get lost. Even car keys get lost around here on a fairly regular basis. Fingerprints maybe?
      - kardos 7y ago
        Probably not: https://www.csoonline.com/article/3268837/busted-cops-use-fingerprint-pulled-from-a-whatsapp-photo-to-id-drug-dealer.html https://www.csoonline.com/article/3268837/busted-cops-use-fi...
      - stevenicr 7y ago
        and when the fingerprint database is stolen and shared with multiple adversarial parties? they now have your password and its gonna be hard to update / change yours. This happened with the opm hack and a big one in India or Indonesia or something not too long ago I think.
    - marcosdumay 7y ago
      Backups. Either in backuping the data, or in enabling several tokens for the same service. The problem is that the first one is frowned upon for good reasons (but maybe not as good as they seem), while nobody supports the second one. So, yes, currently depending on hardware keys is dangerous.
    - nothrabannosir 7y ago
      The same as real keys: you make a copy. If you don’t, you have to call someone to get it fixed, which is an expensive hassle. It’s an intuitive model that everyone already groks. No fragile user re-education necessary.
      - kardos 7y ago
        That doesn't seem right: https://support.yubico.com/support/solutions/articles/15000010242-can-i-duplicate-or-back-up-a-yubikey- https://support.yubico.com/support/solutions/articles/150000...
  - 91iejrj20310 7y ago
    It's a shame that operating systems exist with no functioning system-wide API for authentication, let alone storing passwords. That would change things. Just look how Apple now inserts long random passwords in registration forms and immediately saved it. That's how users will use secure authentication. By helping them, not telling them to do better on their own.
- rolph 7y ago
  go to some random video chat, and record the reactions when you offer full data on some plain nothing to hide person, then show that to those with nothing to hide In my experience there is a realization that its not about hiding your data, its about hiding from a particular type of netizen that amplifies to an extreme
- enriquto 7y ago
  what is a shame is the mere existence of the password system, in a world where we have public key cryptography.
sroussey 7y ago
Yeah, that’s the first step we take with PrivicyPal. Then data brokers, then Google/Facebook et al. While there are others, Troy Hunt’s HIBP is a great resource, and we are indebted to his work there.
ycombinete 7y ago
I make a habit of getting friends and family to do this. And, it’s sad to say, but even this doesn’t always elicit the sort of response one would think reasonable
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  Agreed. The typical response seems to be “what’s the worst that someone could do with that info?” The NYTimes article attempts to answer that question but I’m not sure how successful it is. The gist seems to be that your data affects others, and you may case later about data that you don’t care about now. Nothing about identity theft, answers to secret questions, etc. Some people I talk to already get it, that it’s hard to foresee the abuses, but for most people, if it doesn’t end with a hacker raiding their bank account then it’s not really a problem .
inetknght 7y ago
> Alice, YOUR physical address and family names are available in public information aggregation site ABC. Did your bank ask you what your mother's maiden name is "for security"? Did your HR set your password to YourLastName+StreetNumber?
amelius 7y ago
> If you want to shock your colleagues into action Another way to shock your colleagues is making them point their browsers at https://myactivity.google.com https://myactivity.google.com (and let them scroll down) Part of the information shown there is likely to be part of what's in their phones.
jcims 7y ago
Another way would be to get that 50B location point data that some analysis was done on recently, and send them a list of all of the people that visited their home and all the homes the people in their home visited. Do that enough and you'll likely discover some clandestine activities.
n3k5 7y ago
Hmmm … I wonder into what kind of action they'd most likely be shocked. > So you took a private email address I gave you in confidentiality and handed it over to some hacker site which, without making any verification that you own that address, gave you a list of services I'd signed up for? Bob, YOU are now on my shit list. Your face IS punchable. You should get lost as soon as possible. Maybe it would be better to tell them something along the lines of: "I just improved my internet security, and so can you! Check out these resources, plus some background information from trustworthy sources." But which tools and reports should I recommend? In this context, "that talk I saw at Defcon" doesn't cut it. Recommending a site that endorses exactly one password management service also seems questionable; I'm concerned that if I tell colleagues to trust HIBP, I'm priming them to fall for anti-malware protection rackets. How about the venerable NYT? They must have some great stuff. But then there's also content such as TFA, in which a graphics director and a writer from the opinion desk deliver bons mots such as: "None of us really has a choice to participate in tracking or not — the system just serves up location data, usually without us noticing. […] When we participate in this system, we're tacitly endorsing it." On a page that attempts to contact DoubleClick and Google Analytics. (Which I did notice, and, unlike the NYT, chose not to participate in.) When someone asks for advice or I noticed them make a security boo-boo, I can teach them the bare minimum (basic stuff such as how to use unique credentials for every site and service). But when it comes to doing my part in spreading the word about being more proactive than the bare minimum … halp! Edit: Credit where credit is due: I just finished reading TFA and discovered the section "What about The Times?", which has links to "This Article Is Spying on You" [0] and "How The Times Thinks About Privacy" [1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/opinion/data-privacy-tracking.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/opinion/data-privacy-trac... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/opinion/sulzberger-new-york-times-privacy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/opinion/sulzberger-new-yo...
AndrewKemendo 7y ago
When I've done something like this in the past, most of the responses I get are shrugs and, "I guess I'll change that password, do you have any tips on good passwords?" A few people will go off with their lighthearted hyperbole "I'm moving to a cabin in the woods!" To which I respond, it's much easier to track a n=1 with a unique heat signature in the middle of nowhere - should someone be so inclined.

quelsolaar 7y ago

When someone asks me why privacy matters, usually followed by "who cares about the details of my life?", or "I have nothing to hide", I ask them if they know who Milly Dowler was. Milly Dowler, was a 13 year old girl who was abducted and murdered on her way back from school. It took months to find her body. During this time her family keep leaving desperate messages on her phones answering service. What they didn't know what that, news papers had hacked her voice mail and listened to and printed their pleas for her to return their calls. When the voice box eventually became full, the reporters deleted messages from the phone service so that they could get new materiel. When the family noticed that the voice box had been emptied, it gave them hope that she was still alive and was listening to her messages. Much later they where devastated to learn the body had been found. If you would have asked anyone in the Dowler family the day before Milly's disappearance if they where worried that some one might hack their voice mail they would probably have replied "No, Not really, we have nothing to hide and who would really care to listen to that?"

thdrdt 7y ago
A simpler example is what a blind programmer once posted on HN. As I remember he wanted a job and wanted to hide the fact he is blind because most companies just turned him down immediately.
stevenicr 7y ago
Only way I've been able to get older people to pay attention is by telling them that agreeing to the terms along with your other friends and family collectively, you all have gotten your kids to use and accept those terms, now all of your daughters pics are autouploaded to fbook (not just the ones you chose to share, all photos on the device) - you agreed to those terms of access remember? and lots of enginerds get to see them. microsofts drive app autodetects nude and almost nude pics and sends a copy to humans for verification automatically. snap gets lots of pics that your kids are trying to hide, and keeps a copy for thousands of people to access behind closed doors. Same with instagram, which also allows us to buy pics of your kids and use them in ads for dirty dating sites and herpes commercials.. since you don't use signal you are making your children's texts, pics and videos less safe. Oh, and the banks auto sell your shopping buys to groups of us enginerds. we may have you or members of your fam on the list of buyers of 'massagers' from certain stores.. we love those walgreens points cards, and so does google and fbook who also collect your offline purchasing data and share. thanks for participating in our surveillance economy, we love to watch, and we give you cheaper things for letting us. its win win. don't believe me? call your bank and ask them if they share your debit card purchases with me. have a nice day.

Gusen 7y ago

Read the last few updates to this document and see how bad it can be: FBI Director Wray, AG Barr, SoD Shanahan, & SoS Pompeo all raped boys & were paid billions in bribes for a Soros & Koch funded child rape org. So did Trump & his 'impeachment' team Nadler,Schiff,Mueller.So did media moguls Redstone,Murdoch,Moonves. What are they setting up? Who can arrest them? Download the video\audio file, put on headphones and turn up the volume. You will hear these people committing these crimes. Audio was broadcast into my apartment by outdated surveillance equipment illegally embedded within my walls. This very same technology was being used to broadcast me to the internet for five years without my consent. I own this footage. Please use this to prosecute all found within. Note:: I am obliviously speaking throughout the video, and it can be quite loud at times relative to the desired content. The are dozens more links, including these, that can be found in this 139 page PDF doc, last updated four days ago: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ... All members of the "Illuminati"; "....an underground organization of homosexuals and child rapists..." (from page 26: Barack Obama with Jack Dorsey). President Donald Trump: Accepting a $4 billion dollar bribe here at 10:18 am on the 4thJan2019: 3JanCh3_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77YG0Vr/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77... 3JanCh2_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LUmVygl_q0XVs8h2cWr8jZl-24fY0vBB/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LUmVygl_q0XVs8h2cWr8jZl-24f... 3JanCh4_1000-1100.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZpP1pJbJakBgg-y-MWNozTxp3wJojHge/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZpP1pJbJakBgg-y-MWNozTxp3wJ... President Trump rapes and kills a 12 boys, including five5 boys in a who can rape five boys to death the fastest' game: 14JanCh3_600.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ufPmglde9Mep0m6xYMJ9c4TWTjj258zB/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ufPmglde9Mep0m6xYMJ9c4TWTjj... 14JanCh2_600-700.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/136qLJdEn8eCs9tI4QtIxl4opW_Lw_gCF/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/136qLJdEn8eCs9tI4QtIxl4opW_L... Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi: -Accepting a $3 billion dollar bribe at 1033 am on the 17th of Jan 2019 to ensure Asian boys can get through the border at "Monterey" undocumented to be raped: 17JanCh3_949-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1CZUvmE/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1C... 17JanCh4_1017-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-nWEQbempkVZSz230j9wTyduZNjDmnk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-nWEQbempkVZSz230j9wTyduZN... Speaker Nancy Pelosi also "preps" boys with First Lady Melania Trump, defined as in she performs oral sex on the boys’ penis and anus, as a child rapist like Henry Porter would, while trying to remove fecal matter from the boy prior to handing them over to be raped and then subsequently murdered, for Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who apparently decides he would rather just have ten billion dollars instead. US Attorney for Western New York James Kennedy rapes these boys instead: 12JanCh3_1533-1638.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AgFkDsbPbI4b5Xd3Wbz2EVNNx25kW2Oz/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AgFkDsbPbI4b5Xd3Wbz2EVNNx25... Attorney General William Barr with FBI Deputy Director Christopher Wray raped and killed boys for billions in bribes in Buffalo, New York on the 17th Jan 2019 7:50 am: 18JanCh4_700.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UIdZkS5ZVksZdHYsnHk2t5losi0N0Bp7/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UIdZkS5ZVksZdHYsnHk2t5losi0... 18JanCh2_700.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DFK8IAxm5pQVqZv9L518nfgP7_odB2Um/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DFK8IAxm5pQVqZv9L518nfgP7_o... 18JanCh3_725-.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG5ej59Ic8RT9UhbyMdwT0BDcKIifGGm/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG5ej59Ic8RT9UhbyMdwT0BDcKI... Secretary of State Michael Pompeo and Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan raped and killed boys on 5th of Jan2019 17:39 for billions in bribes: 5JanCh3_1600-1800.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ghgmNrQvJ8WfJ2TsDVx1ruDU36hrhx6S/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ghgmNrQvJ8WfJ2TsDVx1ruDU36h... 5JanCh2_1721-1818 mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eSlD4otX4KZqWXboQM92Mu-6J02Mjwrg/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eSlD4otX4KZqWXboQM92Mu-6J02... Leaders of the "impeachment" effort Jerrold Nadler, Robert Mueller, and also with Adam Schiff all rape and kill boys between 11:20pm and 1:10am: 14JanCh4_2300-0000.mp3 Nadler starts at about twenty mins in. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kuvv2Zmbw5Jw7onbRI2hCZ0M8FU66GuU/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kuvv2Zmbw5Jw7onbRI2hCZ0M8FU... 14JanCh2_2304-2359mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nofp5xF-aXXcCSgQVwj30KlzE9WLr1x1/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nofp5xF-aXXcCSgQVwj30KlzE9W... Mueller at 12:25am, and Schiff starts 12:55-ish: 15JanCh2_000-100.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EsmHfguwBuo2PbavJ1WYyhiML62tgCkj/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EsmHfguwBuo2PbavJ1WYyhiML62... 15JanCh2_100-200.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZnWRnBryalNQu2yJmfJUdS2pA_rGSFH/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZnWRnBryalNQu2yJmfJUdS2pA_... 15JanCh4_000-100.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEDJR6jb6ARpcNnWJTokBUKb2J2OQnwZ/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEDJR6jb6ARpcNnWJTokBUKb2J2... 15JanCh4_100-200.mp3 https://drive.google.com/file/d/173aYWvWHH4VGht1h_2nM0IMdw746LeCL/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/173aYWvWHH4VGht1h_2nM0IMdw74... Complete Media Protection: Lester Holt, of NBC Nightly News, apparently a member of the Illuminati since the 1980's, along with ABC Nightly News lead anchor David Muir, stop over to the Porter studio in Buffalo, New York on 14Jan2019 at 5:00 am. They both rape and kill about two dozen boys by 6:00 am. Muir starts around 5:15 am, then Holt about 538 am. Multi-billionaire Rupert Murdoch, owner of News Corp and also Fox Corporation, takes his turn after Holt. Video links below: 14JanCh3_500-601.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX3o7UL/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX... 14JanCh2_530-600.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1RwidV/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1... Adding to the media protection and reason this is not picked up by the media, CBS and Viacom owner Sumner Redstone with Leslie Moonves rape and kill boys following the President. 14JanCh3_700.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXaB4aI0/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXa... 14JanCh2_700-800.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWYKfRDp/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWY... 142pg PDF [last updated on: DEC|27|2019]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ...

heurist 7y ago

I've directly sampled a lot of mobile location data. The data is sparse. Most people do not have their location data distributed, and of those who do most have very few pings, and with Apple/Android now explicitly asking for location permissions the utility of the data which is available will decrease dramatically. Google, Apple, Verizon etc have significantly more due to their centrality in the technology but to my knowledge directly sell none of it. I understand the concern to for privacy but NYT makes the issue seem larger than it is.

darkkindness 7y ago
Do you believe the piece linked in the first paragraph[0] describes an outlier in terms of data collection? It shows how location data from a single low-lying location tracking company had enough pings to reliably pinpoint home and work locations of individuals, enough to de-anonymize and interview them. This does not seem like sparse data. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/locat... (discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21833718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21833718)
- heurist 7y ago
  It's definitely possible, but when I have looked at the movement data myself maybe 0.5% of houses in my city had any pings. Half the time there is no way to tell if the pings come from residents or visitors. So the odds of being one of those people is low. Minimal effort to secure your privacy can prevent you from being one of these people. People should also be aware that their name and addresses are already available without mobile data. My opinion is that the data has tremendous potential to make retail/housing markets more energy efficient and should be available for commercial applications, though maybe sellers/consumers of the data should be licensed. Won't go into detail but I think it will ultimately help in the fight against climate change.

toohotatopic 7y ago

Are most people not worried that at one point, algorithms will understand us on a subconscious level? Like the existing algorithm that can tell if somebody is depressed by the way they are dancing? Life will be like entering an evil cult, where advertisers can abuse our deepest vulnerabilities to the benefit of whoever pays the most.

8bitsrule 7y ago

I'd be very surprised to hear about how to track a particular phone with the battery removed.

georgeplusplus 7y ago
The answer However, is not surprising. You add another power source the user doesn’t know about.