16 ms·

As much as I want to believe, I feel like this almost has to be some sort of disinformation campaign, either to cover up some sort of testing that the US milita

As much as I want to believe, I feel like this almost has to be some sort of disinformation campaign, either to cover up some sort of testing that the US military is doing and thinks someone else might have seen, or to make US adversaries think that we've made some sort of fundamental breakthrough and we're ineptly trying to cover it up by calling it a UFO. Probably the latter. Would be interesting to read the article about this in 50 years or so once the political landscape has changed and it's safe to declassify, but I doubt I'll be around then.

sambull 7y ago
There is definitely some sort of disinformation campaign, I guess its aimed at other nations. [0] I'm guessing this is part of the campaign, or else maybe alien tech? [1] I'll assume its to make someone else think we have tech we may not have. [0] https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-aerospace-tech-boss-claims-key-ufo-patent-is-operable https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-a... [1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evjwkw/bob-lazar-says-the-fbi-raided-him-to-seize-area-51s-alien-fuel-the-truth-is-weirder https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evjwkw/bob-lazar-says-the...
- B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
  > aimed at other nations. Does anyone have one of those world heat maps for "belief in UFOs" by country?
- rurban 7y ago
  Why alien tech? It certainly fits the description of modern Russian or Chinese cruise missiles acting in a swarm. But I'm baffled why they would they do this close to enemy territory. Loosing one of those would be the worst case.
awb 7y ago
One of the pilots in this incident was on Rogan saying how they used to fly silently without lights above remote campsites, then once they saw a campfire blast the lights and go straight up. They'd laugh as the UFO reports flowed in. Similarly, the stealth fighter was in operation for 20 years before the public knew about it. It's not unrealistic to consider top secret tech as a possible explanation. One counter point is usually: If we had tech this amazing, we'd be putting it to use commercially. However this tech might be autonomous and might need to be considering the G forces supposedly at play.
- criddell 7y ago
  I don't think they would operate in areas where training is taking place without notifying the pilots in the area that they are also operating there. The risk of collision is too high (and there apparently was at least one very close call).
- dingaling 7y ago
  > Similarly, the stealth fighter was in operation for 20 years before the public knew about it First flew 1981, first official photo released 1988. And plenty of speculation in betwee..
  - nickhalfasleep 7y ago
    I was camping with my father above Tuolumne Meadows near Yosemite in 1986. We just had sleeping bags, no tent. As we bed down for the night, four tiny black diamonds silently flew overhead to the west. Absolutely creepy to see things so abstract and quiet. Didn't make sense until the reveal in 1988, but it was four nighthawks heading from Nevada to the Pacific Ocean.
- CalChris 7y ago
  No, the stealth fighter was not in operation for 20 years before the public knew about it. The F-117 was delivered in 1982 and operational in 1983. It was 'declassified' in 1988 and displayed in 1990. And it wasn't even a fighter. It was for ground attack. https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117.htm
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    I thought maybe the poster was talking about the SR-71, but it too didn't stay classified for very long.
    - gpderetta 7y ago
      A-12 did stay classified for a while.
corporate_shi11 7y ago
Naval patents of far fetched sounding room temperature superconductors and similar things may indeed be part of a disinformation campaign, but that does not mean the sightings of tic-tac shaped objects and other radar and pilot observed anomalies are part of the campaign as well. What could be the case is that the observed tic-tac UFO's are real alien craft, about which word is now leaking out, but the US military is now using the confusion surrounding them for their own purposes. Hey, why not use the confusion for our own advantage.
nradov 7y ago
Any potential adversaries are smart enough to realize that if the US military had really invented a fundamental breakthrough they wouldn't be spending a fortune on the B-21 program.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- all2 7y ago
  This kind of thing is highly compartmentalized. The decision makers for the budget of the B-21 program probably aren't cleared to know about a program developing an engine that ignores inertia.
  - nradov 7y ago
    No that's incorrect. Decisions on programs the size of the B-21 are made by the USAF Chief of Staff, senior members of the Congressional Armed Services committees, and ultimately by the President. Those people are cleared for everything related to procurement. They couldn't do their jobs otherwise.
  - supercheetah 7y ago
    Maybe. Just plain politics is more likely. Decommissioning projects like this very likely touches upon various politicians' pork projects who don't want those to go away. The military brass tried to stop the production of the M1A1 once because they had better tanks, and wanted to buy those instead, but Congress didn't because too many of their districts relied on its production.
- A_Parr 7y ago
  If spending a fortune on the B-21 program ensured no adversaries believed the US invented a fundamental breakthrough in aircraft design, that would be the best reason to do it.
  - dwd 7y ago
    This is a good point. Dropping a program for no apparent reason can be a give away that there is something else... The Boeing X-45 program is a good example: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3889/the-alarming-case-of-the-usafs-mysteriously-missing-unmanned-combat-air-vehicles https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3889/the-alarming-case...
JimmyRuska 7y ago
Wouldn't the boring answer be they made something that can disrupt radar systems into creating fantom objects. Creating fake objects that are remarkable would be useful for when distractions are needed. The final QA would be a real in the field test where the observers are not aware of the experiment.
- wiml 7y ago
  That really does seem like the simplest, most boring explanation to me — some kind of camouflage/countermeasures/stealth technology that makes it really hard to recognize something or to get a reliable indication of its bearing or distance.
  - abnry 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure the observers reported both radar sightings and visual sightings. It wasn't radar alone.
- rnikander 7y ago
  Four people saw it with their eyes. David Fravor has talked the most but there were two planes, each with two pilots.
dvh 7y ago
Here's my theory about the recent influx of UFO footages coming from high places. US military was working on advanced drones. Nothing fancy, think current best tech, add 15 years and billion in r&d, that kind of stuff. Then when it was ready for test they flew it secretly before their own pilots and waited for reports. And waited. And waited some more. Silence. They disabled stealth, added flashlights, nothing. Military pilots didn't reported it. Maybe Venus. Or moonlight bouncing off swamp gas, but not UFO. Why? In past decades whenever military pilot reported UFO they were laughed at, sent to psychologist, evaluated, sent behind the desk. Other pilots knew and when they saw something really weird they have kept it for themselves. Then the higher ups panicked. If they don't report our drones, they will not report Chinese or Russian drones either. We have hundreds and thousands of eyes in the sky but they will not report because they are afraid to speak. So they came up with a campaign. They started to publish official UFO footage and started more openly talk about it to show pilots that it is now ok to talk about UFO. Don't be afraid pilots, if you see something strange jus tell us, we take it seriously now. There are no aliens. Videos you saw are created or modified to look legit, and officially supported or confirmed.
- Roritharr 7y ago
  Why would they wait for reports from their pilots in such a roundabout fashion? Besides that it's the most compelling argument I've read so far, kinda killing the mood for me.
- natalyarostova 7y ago
  While this is probably wrong, it’s a fascinating theory.
  - PopeRigby 7y ago
    Why do you think it's wrong?
    - basch 7y ago
      wouldnt it be a lot simple to just announce "hey if you think you see a ufo, 'its probably us' and we would appreciate a report so we can correlate sightings with our various stealth tests."?
teslatelsa 7y ago
bingo. another disinfo campaign. intelligent aliens are just another made up bullshit story to distract people from other more important storeis and justify huge ass budget increases that go on for multiple decades. there are more than enough idiots and suckers to persuade. this is the problem with democrazy. it's just one method for securing good leadership and it often can be systemically hacked. one way is to dumb down the population and feeed them nonsense. it works.
joe_the_user 7y ago
Most UFO stories are fairly easily debunked. Even if the this particular story was an outlier in apparent credibility, why would any think that a UFO story would be an effective way to spread FUD among US adversaries?

sambull 7y ago

There is definitely some sort of disinformation campaign, I guess its aimed at other nations. [0] I'm guessing this is part of the campaign, or else maybe alien tech? [1] I'll assume its to make someone else think we have tech we may not have. [0] https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-aerospace-tech-boss-claims-key-ufo-patent-is-operable https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29232/navys-advanced-a... [1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evjwkw/bob-lazar-says-the-fbi-raided-him-to-seize-area-51s-alien-fuel-the-truth-is-weirder https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evjwkw/bob-lazar-says-the...

B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
> aimed at other nations. Does anyone have one of those world heat maps for "belief in UFOs" by country?
rurban 7y ago
Why alien tech? It certainly fits the description of modern Russian or Chinese cruise missiles acting in a swarm. But I'm baffled why they would they do this close to enemy territory. Loosing one of those would be the worst case.

awb 7y ago

One of the pilots in this incident was on Rogan saying how they used to fly silently without lights above remote campsites, then once they saw a campfire blast the lights and go straight up. They'd laugh as the UFO reports flowed in. Similarly, the stealth fighter was in operation for 20 years before the public knew about it. It's not unrealistic to consider top secret tech as a possible explanation. One counter point is usually: If we had tech this amazing, we'd be putting it to use commercially. However this tech might be autonomous and might need to be considering the G forces supposedly at play.

criddell 7y ago
I don't think they would operate in areas where training is taking place without notifying the pilots in the area that they are also operating there. The risk of collision is too high (and there apparently was at least one very close call).
dingaling 7y ago
> Similarly, the stealth fighter was in operation for 20 years before the public knew about it First flew 1981, first official photo released 1988. And plenty of speculation in betwee..
- nickhalfasleep 7y ago
  I was camping with my father above Tuolumne Meadows near Yosemite in 1986. We just had sleeping bags, no tent. As we bed down for the night, four tiny black diamonds silently flew overhead to the west. Absolutely creepy to see things so abstract and quiet. Didn't make sense until the reveal in 1988, but it was four nighthawks heading from Nevada to the Pacific Ocean.
CalChris 7y ago
No, the stealth fighter was not in operation for 20 years before the public knew about it. The F-117 was delivered in 1982 and operational in 1983. It was 'declassified' in 1988 and displayed in 1990. And it wasn't even a fighter. It was for ground attack. https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117.htm
- djsumdog 7y ago
  I thought maybe the poster was talking about the SR-71, but it too didn't stay classified for very long.
  - gpderetta 7y ago
    A-12 did stay classified for a while.

corporate_shi11 7y ago

Naval patents of far fetched sounding room temperature superconductors and similar things may indeed be part of a disinformation campaign, but that does not mean the sightings of tic-tac shaped objects and other radar and pilot observed anomalies are part of the campaign as well. What could be the case is that the observed tic-tac UFO's are real alien craft, about which word is now leaking out, but the US military is now using the confusion surrounding them for their own purposes. Hey, why not use the confusion for our own advantage.

nradov 7y ago

Any potential adversaries are smart enough to realize that if the US military had really invented a fundamental breakthrough they wouldn't be spending a fortune on the B-21 program.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
all2 7y ago
This kind of thing is highly compartmentalized. The decision makers for the budget of the B-21 program probably aren't cleared to know about a program developing an engine that ignores inertia.
- nradov 7y ago
  No that's incorrect. Decisions on programs the size of the B-21 are made by the USAF Chief of Staff, senior members of the Congressional Armed Services committees, and ultimately by the President. Those people are cleared for everything related to procurement. They couldn't do their jobs otherwise.
- supercheetah 7y ago
  Maybe. Just plain politics is more likely. Decommissioning projects like this very likely touches upon various politicians' pork projects who don't want those to go away. The military brass tried to stop the production of the M1A1 once because they had better tanks, and wanted to buy those instead, but Congress didn't because too many of their districts relied on its production.
A_Parr 7y ago
If spending a fortune on the B-21 program ensured no adversaries believed the US invented a fundamental breakthrough in aircraft design, that would be the best reason to do it.
- dwd 7y ago
  This is a good point. Dropping a program for no apparent reason can be a give away that there is something else... The Boeing X-45 program is a good example: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3889/the-alarming-case-of-the-usafs-mysteriously-missing-unmanned-combat-air-vehicles https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3889/the-alarming-case...

JimmyRuska 7y ago

Wouldn't the boring answer be they made something that can disrupt radar systems into creating fantom objects. Creating fake objects that are remarkable would be useful for when distractions are needed. The final QA would be a real in the field test where the observers are not aware of the experiment.

wiml 7y ago
That really does seem like the simplest, most boring explanation to me — some kind of camouflage/countermeasures/stealth technology that makes it really hard to recognize something or to get a reliable indication of its bearing or distance.
- abnry 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure the observers reported both radar sightings and visual sightings. It wasn't radar alone.
rnikander 7y ago
Four people saw it with their eyes. David Fravor has talked the most but there were two planes, each with two pilots.

dvh 7y ago

Here's my theory about the recent influx of UFO footages coming from high places. US military was working on advanced drones. Nothing fancy, think current best tech, add 15 years and billion in r&d, that kind of stuff. Then when it was ready for test they flew it secretly before their own pilots and waited for reports. And waited. And waited some more. Silence. They disabled stealth, added flashlights, nothing. Military pilots didn't reported it. Maybe Venus. Or moonlight bouncing off swamp gas, but not UFO. Why? In past decades whenever military pilot reported UFO they were laughed at, sent to psychologist, evaluated, sent behind the desk. Other pilots knew and when they saw something really weird they have kept it for themselves. Then the higher ups panicked. If they don't report our drones, they will not report Chinese or Russian drones either. We have hundreds and thousands of eyes in the sky but they will not report because they are afraid to speak. So they came up with a campaign. They started to publish official UFO footage and started more openly talk about it to show pilots that it is now ok to talk about UFO. Don't be afraid pilots, if you see something strange jus tell us, we take it seriously now. There are no aliens. Videos you saw are created or modified to look legit, and officially supported or confirmed.

Roritharr 7y ago
Why would they wait for reports from their pilots in such a roundabout fashion? Besides that it's the most compelling argument I've read so far, kinda killing the mood for me.
natalyarostova 7y ago
While this is probably wrong, it’s a fascinating theory.
- PopeRigby 7y ago
  Why do you think it's wrong?
  - basch 7y ago
    wouldnt it be a lot simple to just announce "hey if you think you see a ufo, 'its probably us' and we would appreciate a report so we can correlate sightings with our various stealth tests."?

teslatelsa 7y ago

bingo. another disinfo campaign. intelligent aliens are just another made up bullshit story to distract people from other more important storeis and justify huge ass budget increases that go on for multiple decades. there are more than enough idiots and suckers to persuade. this is the problem with democrazy. it's just one method for securing good leadership and it often can be systemically hacked. one way is to dumb down the population and feeed them nonsense. it works.

joe_the_user 7y ago

Most UFO stories are fairly easily debunked. Even if the this particular story was an outlier in apparent credibility, why would any think that a UFO story would be an effective way to spread FUD among US adversaries?