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>Immediate responsibility, the Navy ruled, rested with Sanchez, his officers and senior sailors. They had been lax, even complacent, in their training of the sa

>Immediate responsibility, the Navy ruled, rested with Sanchez, his officers and senior sailors. They had been lax, even complacent, in their training of the sailors steering the ship. Sanchez had made a critical error in not adding more sailors to stand watch as the McCain navigated the treacherous strait From what I read consistently about the Navy, and hear from veteran friends, any sailors they could have asked to stand watch would have already been overworked and under rested. Everything I read about the U.S. military, and especially the NAVY, seems to indicate a broken culture of bloat and incompetence from the top down. I think we've been too comfortable as the premier unchallenged world superpower and the services have started to rot from within.

magduf 7y ago
It's not just the Navy or military; all kinds of things are breaking down in this country, though most people are completely in denial. Just look at how this country compares to others in terms of: obesity, healthcare costs per capita, transportation infrastructure, housing costs, gap between rich and poor, gun-related deaths, I could go on and on.
- pathseeker 7y ago
  >obesity, healthcare costs per capita Yep, healthcare is garbage. >transportation infrastructure This is subjective. Most Americans care more about roads than public transportation. >housing costs In all but the most expensive metros, US housing is way cheaper per sq ft than most Western European nations. This is partly due to urban sprawl due to the love affair with cars, but it is cheaper. >gap between rich and poor Richer middle class than most other countries. Just because the US is a good place for business and a bad place to be poor says very little about the average experience. >gun-related deaths Yep, that comes with gun ownership. Many people are knowingly making that trade-off. You'd want to compare murder/suicide rates with other countries for any meaningful comparisons.
  - aqme28 7y ago
    > Yep, that comes with gun ownership. Many people are knowingly making that trade-off. You'd want to compare murder/suicide rates with other countries for any meaningful comparisons. And our murder rate is pretty bad, likely thanks to our extremely high rate of gun violence.
    - Retric 7y ago
      While over 2/3 of US Murders involve guns. You can exclude gun violence only from the US numbers and the US still has a higher murder rate than the UK. So, it’s likely a major factor but hardly the root cause.
      - CapricornNoble 7y ago
        Keep in mind that private citizens in the United States possess roughly 35-40% of all small arms ON THE ENTIRE PLANET, with more than double the per capita ownership rate of the #2 country (active warzone Yemen). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/americans-own-nearly-half-worlds-guns-in-civilian-hands-survey-idUSKBN1JE220 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/americans-own-ne...
  - Retric 7y ago
    US road infrastructure in in terrible shape as measured by commute times, gridlock, and even the direct state of the existing infrastructure.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - closeparen 7y ago
      The median commute time in the US is 27 minutes each way [0]. Lower in less dense and more car-oriented geographies. Our system of decentralized, sprawling, unremarkable towns and "cities" has many problems, but those things are fucking great for commute times. Residents of giant world cities with excellent public transit infrastructure spend much more of each day getting around. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/study-states-with-the-longest-and-shortest-commutes.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/study-states-with-the-longes...
- slowhand09 7y ago
  "gun-related deaths": There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths: • 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws. • 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. • 489 (2%) are accidental. So "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but 5,577... 0.0017% of the population. Still too many? Let's look at location: • 298 (5%) - St Louis, MO • 327 (6%) - Detroit, MI • 328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD • 764 (14%) - Chicago, IL That's over 30% of all gun crime in just 4 cities. But what about other deaths each year? • 70,000+ die from a drug overdose. • 49,000 people die per year from the flu. • 37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities. • 250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital! • 610,000 people die per year from heart disease. We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.
  - standeven 7y ago
    Yet gun related deaths in the US are still MUCH higher than other countries[1]. 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws. I beg to differ. Gun laws that reduce the number of firearms in homes, and/or reduce the number of guns sold to those with mental health issues, would almost certainly reduce suicide rates. A gun is a dangerously quick, easy, and effective method that sits in the closets of many Americans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...
    - phendrenad2 7y ago
      That's like saying island countries have more drowning deaths.
      - decebalus1 7y ago
        only if island countries would have the possibility to move to some other inland territories.
hansthehorse 7y ago
I served in the Navy from 74 to 80, school for the first 18 months and at sea for the last 4.5 years. I worked on a nuclear powered cruiser in the engine room. It was not unusual to stand "port and starboard" watches which meant only 2 people were qualified to stand that particular watch and we alternated duty.
- allovernow 7y ago
  Man, they almost got me for Navy nuke in college a few years ago. The older I get the happier I am that I turned it down.
  - hansthehorse 7y ago
    It provided me the chance to walk into a commercial nuclear power job that paid 6 figures on a HS education.
bpodgursky 7y ago
I think the Army works significantly better. Obviously still wildly wasteful, but they've been under pressure to deliver results for a decade, and actually operate in a war theater, so they actually have processes to get things done, given sufficient money thrown into the hole. The Air Force is a huge can of failure with the F35. At least they're standing by the goals of having a reasonable number of combat-worthy planes ready to fly, but the refusal to play ground-support roles and use light-combat airframes sets them up to be replaced by an army-run drone program within a few decades. The Navy, though, hasn't had to do anything more useful than stop Somali pirates for two decades. It shows.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  The Air Force didn't design or manufacture the F35.
  - PostOnce 7y ago
    They didn't go the airplane store and pick one off the shelf either though... Lockheed gets something like 90% of its revenue from the federal government. They're effectively an arm of the Air Force. Besides, it's not like the Air Force did no design at all, they came up with a list of wants and needs, had prototypes made by two contractors, refined their requirements after selecting one of the two competing prototypes, etc...
magicalhippo 7y ago
Norway recently lost one of their five frigates[1], and a significant factor was the officers on the bridge lacking experience and being overworked due to training new personnel. Nine of the fifteen[2] safety recommendations made by the accident investigation board were directed to the Norwegian Navy. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNoMS_Helge_Ingstad_(F313)#Collision_with_oil_tanker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNoMS_Helge_Ingstad_(F313)#Col... [2]: https://www.tu.no/artikler/her-er-konklusjonene-fra-havarikommisjonens-rapport-om-knm-helge-ingstad/478525 https://www.tu.no/artikler/her-er-konklusjonene-fra-havariko...
Balgair 7y ago
I can't find the source [0], but there was another expose'/interview on the USS John McCain where they interviewed darn near the entire crew. My details are fuzzy, but from what I remember the crew has been severely short staffed for years. To the point where 'normal' days were like 18 hours long and sleep for the captain was 2-4 hours a day for years on end. The internal email system for the ship was so broken that they resorted to just using free Gmail addresses, they had to tape over control knobs to keep them from being disturbed, training was completely abandoned, etc. It paints a hell of a bad picture of the Pacific fleet and it's command. [0] I think it was propublica as well, but I can't find the article there.
- mandevil 7y ago
  Your google-fu failed you because it wasn't about the USS John McCain, it was Propublica's article on the other fatal 7th Fleet destroyer collision in 2017, the USS Fitzgerald. The collisions were two months apart. The article you are thinking of is here: https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/ https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgeral...
  - Balgair 7y ago
    Bingo! Thank you!

magduf 7y ago

It's not just the Navy or military; all kinds of things are breaking down in this country, though most people are completely in denial. Just look at how this country compares to others in terms of: obesity, healthcare costs per capita, transportation infrastructure, housing costs, gap between rich and poor, gun-related deaths, I could go on and on.

pathseeker 7y ago
>obesity, healthcare costs per capita Yep, healthcare is garbage. >transportation infrastructure This is subjective. Most Americans care more about roads than public transportation. >housing costs In all but the most expensive metros, US housing is way cheaper per sq ft than most Western European nations. This is partly due to urban sprawl due to the love affair with cars, but it is cheaper. >gap between rich and poor Richer middle class than most other countries. Just because the US is a good place for business and a bad place to be poor says very little about the average experience. >gun-related deaths Yep, that comes with gun ownership. Many people are knowingly making that trade-off. You'd want to compare murder/suicide rates with other countries for any meaningful comparisons.
- aqme28 7y ago
  > Yep, that comes with gun ownership. Many people are knowingly making that trade-off. You'd want to compare murder/suicide rates with other countries for any meaningful comparisons. And our murder rate is pretty bad, likely thanks to our extremely high rate of gun violence.
  - Retric 7y ago
    While over 2/3 of US Murders involve guns. You can exclude gun violence only from the US numbers and the US still has a higher murder rate than the UK. So, it’s likely a major factor but hardly the root cause.
    - CapricornNoble 7y ago
      Keep in mind that private citizens in the United States possess roughly 35-40% of all small arms ON THE ENTIRE PLANET, with more than double the per capita ownership rate of the #2 country (active warzone Yemen). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/americans-own-nearly-half-worlds-guns-in-civilian-hands-survey-idUSKBN1JE220 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns/americans-own-ne...
- Retric 7y ago
  US road infrastructure in in terrible shape as measured by commute times, gridlock, and even the direct state of the existing infrastructure.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - closeparen 7y ago
    The median commute time in the US is 27 minutes each way [0]. Lower in less dense and more car-oriented geographies. Our system of decentralized, sprawling, unremarkable towns and "cities" has many problems, but those things are fucking great for commute times. Residents of giant world cities with excellent public transit infrastructure spend much more of each day getting around. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/study-states-with-the-longest-and-shortest-commutes.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/study-states-with-the-longes...
slowhand09 7y ago
"gun-related deaths": There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths: • 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws. • 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. • 489 (2%) are accidental. So "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but 5,577... 0.0017% of the population. Still too many? Let's look at location: • 298 (5%) - St Louis, MO • 327 (6%) - Detroit, MI • 328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD • 764 (14%) - Chicago, IL That's over 30% of all gun crime in just 4 cities. But what about other deaths each year? • 70,000+ die from a drug overdose. • 49,000 people die per year from the flu. • 37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities. • 250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital! • 610,000 people die per year from heart disease. We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.
- standeven 7y ago
  Yet gun related deaths in the US are still MUCH higher than other countries[1]. 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws. I beg to differ. Gun laws that reduce the number of firearms in homes, and/or reduce the number of guns sold to those with mental health issues, would almost certainly reduce suicide rates. A gun is a dangerously quick, easy, and effective method that sits in the closets of many Americans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...
  - phendrenad2 7y ago
    That's like saying island countries have more drowning deaths.
    - decebalus1 7y ago
      only if island countries would have the possibility to move to some other inland territories.

hansthehorse 7y ago

I served in the Navy from 74 to 80, school for the first 18 months and at sea for the last 4.5 years. I worked on a nuclear powered cruiser in the engine room. It was not unusual to stand "port and starboard" watches which meant only 2 people were qualified to stand that particular watch and we alternated duty.

allovernow 7y ago
Man, they almost got me for Navy nuke in college a few years ago. The older I get the happier I am that I turned it down.
- hansthehorse 7y ago
  It provided me the chance to walk into a commercial nuclear power job that paid 6 figures on a HS education.

bpodgursky 7y ago

I think the Army works significantly better. Obviously still wildly wasteful, but they've been under pressure to deliver results for a decade, and actually operate in a war theater, so they actually have processes to get things done, given sufficient money thrown into the hole. The Air Force is a huge can of failure with the F35. At least they're standing by the goals of having a reasonable number of combat-worthy planes ready to fly, but the refusal to play ground-support roles and use light-combat airframes sets them up to be replaced by an army-run drone program within a few decades. The Navy, though, hasn't had to do anything more useful than stop Somali pirates for two decades. It shows.

whatshisface 7y ago
The Air Force didn't design or manufacture the F35.
- PostOnce 7y ago
  They didn't go the airplane store and pick one off the shelf either though... Lockheed gets something like 90% of its revenue from the federal government. They're effectively an arm of the Air Force. Besides, it's not like the Air Force did no design at all, they came up with a list of wants and needs, had prototypes made by two contractors, refined their requirements after selecting one of the two competing prototypes, etc...

magicalhippo 7y ago

Norway recently lost one of their five frigates[1], and a significant factor was the officers on the bridge lacking experience and being overworked due to training new personnel. Nine of the fifteen[2] safety recommendations made by the accident investigation board were directed to the Norwegian Navy. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNoMS_Helge_Ingstad_(F313)#Collision_with_oil_tanker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNoMS_Helge_Ingstad_(F313)#Col... [2]: https://www.tu.no/artikler/her-er-konklusjonene-fra-havarikommisjonens-rapport-om-knm-helge-ingstad/478525 https://www.tu.no/artikler/her-er-konklusjonene-fra-havariko...

Balgair 7y ago

I can't find the source [0], but there was another expose'/interview on the USS John McCain where they interviewed darn near the entire crew. My details are fuzzy, but from what I remember the crew has been severely short staffed for years. To the point where 'normal' days were like 18 hours long and sleep for the captain was 2-4 hours a day for years on end. The internal email system for the ship was so broken that they resorted to just using free Gmail addresses, they had to tape over control knobs to keep them from being disturbed, training was completely abandoned, etc. It paints a hell of a bad picture of the Pacific fleet and it's command. [0] I think it was propublica as well, but I can't find the article there.

mandevil 7y ago
Your google-fu failed you because it wasn't about the USS John McCain, it was Propublica's article on the other fatal 7th Fleet destroyer collision in 2017, the USS Fitzgerald. The collisions were two months apart. The article you are thinking of is here: https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/ https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgeral...
- Balgair 7y ago
  Bingo! Thank you!