19 ms·

India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

200 points by 0xmohit 7y ago

yumraj 7y ago
To those who are questioning why, this is why (reports from Pakistan's most reputed news paper) https://www.google.com/search?q=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3Adawn.com&oq=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3Adawn.com https://www.google.com/search?q=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3A... Or feel free to search "Hindu girl converted site:dawn.com"
- DefeatFascists 7y ago
  Then why Indian muslims are verifyng their grandfather's identiy now?
- thewhitetulip 7y ago
  You can also Google how Minority Muslims are declared "Non Muslim"
  - yumraj 7y ago
    And you can refer to my comment below where I said that Ahmadis should be included in my opinion.
    - thewhitetulip 7y ago
      The fact that they're not included shows the bias that the government had. It's obvious
      - yumraj 7y ago
        We don't even know how many Ahmadis are even coming to India, but we do know there are millions of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and other minorities. Moreover, Hindu girls are being abducted and being force converted and married away. I have not seen any similar news related to Ahmadis. So, this law is about helping those who need to be helped en masse, Ahmadi cases can be dealt with on a case by case basis under existing laws.
- yumraj 7y ago
  I never question the downvotes because HN frowns on it. But in this instance in genuinely curious why? Above comment points to Pakistan's most reputed English newspaper, not a FUD site. Or do the plight of Hindus don't matter??
quantummkv 7y ago
> For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on improving economic and human-life indicators instead. The government in its election pitch made this one of the major points that they would execute if they came to power. So please don't be under the assumption that the people that voted don't want this to be implemented. Think of it as technical debt in the codebase. It has to be addressed before you can execute a growth strategy on your product or it will come to haunt you later.
- vijaybritto 7y ago
  Genocide is not like technical debt!!
  - quantummkv 7y ago
    I don't really understand where the genocide is coming from. At the worst you will be deported back to your homeland. If your homeland is genociding you it's not India's problem.
    - vijaybritto 7y ago
      Yeah Gujarat 2002 was in Pakistan right/??
      - quantummkv 7y ago
        Considering how you continue to bring up an issue that was disproved multiple times at every level (That too during Congress rule so you cannot accuse Modi of manipulating investigating agencies and courts), It might have been. Continuing to harp on an non-issue like this in public is the reason why the voters keep voting Modi in and the opposition out.
        vijaybritto 7y ago
        cause Our courts never really rule for justice when muslims are in the receiving end. Time and time again. Gujarat riots, babar masjid and many more. This is a non issue for fascists but it is for the victims.
nilsocket 7y ago
For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and stayed in India for certain years, they can become India citizens. How many years: For Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Jain, Buddhist and Parsi 5years. For Muslims 11years. Why segregation based on religion? Because of persecution of minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan. Pakistan, Non-Muslim population fell from 23% to 3%. Bangladesh, Non-Muslim population fell from 22% to 8%. Afghanistan, I don't know. Because, religious minorities from these three countries don't have any other place to go except India. NRC (National Register for Citizens) is aimed at moving illegal immigrants to detention camps or they are free to leave to there actual country. During NRC one(Everybody in India) needs to prove there citizenship. This Bill is applicable only for illegal immigrants(It has got nothing to do with Indian Citizens), If somebody wants to come to India legally, they can come.
- goombastic 7y ago
  Your comment is disingenuous and obfuscates the logic of the issue. The combo of the NRC+CAA ensures that Indians without papers are liable to be in internment camps. If you don't have papers, you are declared an illegal. There are a lot of Indians who don't have formal documentation. There is also a lot of corruption that makes it possible for officials to reject formal documents. You then get declared illegal. Once in an internment camp, you cant go anyplace else. If you are a muslim, you don't have the option of getting out of the camp at all. if you are a poor Indian or a dissenter of any sort, you will face the same logic and all documents you produce will be deemed unfit. A single internment camp costs 40Crores to make. To house just the northeast's so called illegals, you need close to 25K crores. This is a government that has just recently said no to primary education budgets for lack of cash. You think they have the budgets for large scale concentration camps? No. They are building up for a pogrom. This is straight up Nazi policy. The other question I keep asking is how is this a legitimate government if all the voters themselves have been designated illegal/noncitizens by default? Last question and a prediction, why is the government transferring the workload of proving citizenship on to the population? This is to make people protest. Given enough protests, they will flip the policy to say, "hear hear, no, we will find the illegals for you, no need to stand in queues." Once they do that, they will form squads and informers like in Nazi Germany and hunt down the "unwanted."
faissaloo 7y ago
This feels like the bit before they commit genocide.
- silentguy 7y ago
  I don't know why are downvoted and flagged. Here is similar opinion from genocide expert. [Preparation for a genocide under way in India: Dr. Gregory Stanton](https://www.sabrangindia.in/article/preparation-genocide-under-way-india-dr-gregory-stanton https://www.sabrangindia.in/article/preparation-genocide-und...)
reactspa 7y ago
1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islamic states"]) is now automatically granted Indian citizenship. Protestors are worried about loss of jobs and demographic replacement by these new citizens. So, most protestors are not protesting muslim exclusion, they're protesting anyone's inclusion.
- Scipio_Afri 7y ago
  This seems like a really misinformed comment. Why would the protests be occurring most strongly in predominately Muslim areas? This is backed up by numerous international media reports, including comments from people who are protesting. "NEW DELHI—Protests against a new citizenship law favoring non-Muslim immigrants erupted in violence in a Muslim-dominated part of the Indian capital where communal tensions have flared in the past, as the prime minister appealed for calm. “People are opposing this law because it discriminates against the Muslims,” said Chaudhary Mateen Ahmad, a former Congress party legislator in the Delhi Assembly from Seelampur, the northeastern Delhi area where protest violence broke out on Tuesday afternoon. “They are saying the law should treat everyone equally; there should be no discrimination.” The new law eases the path to citizenship for individuals from persecuted religious groups from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan, but only if they aren’t Muslim. That distinction has set off alarm in India’s 200-million strong Muslim community, who say the law, along with a separate national registry, could be used to disenfranchise many Muslims. The law has also alarmed Indians who view its singling out one religious group as betraying the country’s secular tradition of protecting all religious groups. The protests on Tuesday followed weekend demonstrations by students and local residents near the Jamia Millia Islamia University in New Delhi, in which police chased protesters into the campus, fired tear gas and beat them with batons, injuring several students. Students in several Indian cities have been holding protests in support of the Jamia students." https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-protests-against-new-law-spread-to-muslim-area-of-capital-11576596978 https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-protests-against-new-law-...
routerhash 7y ago
This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.
- psankar 7y ago
  oh please. Stop the lies. Even the sons of former president of India are considered illegal immigrants https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhruddin-ali-ahmed-family-again-left-out-of-nrc-list-1594188-2019-09-01 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhr... As per the new law, if there are Hindu immigrants from Bangladesh, they are accepted in India; but not Muslims who were born in India, had their education in India, if they cannot find their ancestor's birth certificates. This is a plan case of religious discrimination by the the Indian hindu rightwing Government which is moving with the support of rich NRI assholes and the religious thugs of Hindustan.
  - sbmthakur 7y ago
    I don't support pan-India NRC. But what makes you think that the requirements for a nationwide NRC will be same as that of Assam?
- goombastic 7y ago
  Well, in every other place in the world, the government doesn't wake up one day and ask citizens to prove they are Citizens. This is what happens if you elect bombastic incapable governments. The government doesn't realize that by their own logic they aren't elected by citizens anymore. By their own logic, they need to hold elections again I guess.
  - routerhash 7y ago
    This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.
goombastic 7y ago
This government is going nuts trying to create a hindu muslim divide. They have effectively asked all Indian citizens to prove they are Indians or otherwise be interned. What kind of reversal of roles is that? Also then they make sure that muslims if interned cannot claim to be a citizen no matter what. If this government now says that everyone has to prove citizenship, how come the results of the general elections are still valid? Also, the Indian economy is in shambles and digging its own grave. Food inflation, unemployement, and all markers of quality of life are down. This is a genocide in the making and the shills on TV and the media are not silent, but complicit. This is the Hitler/China playbook in action and the world needs to oppose this.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  > They have effectively asked all Indian citizens to prove they are Indians or otherwise be interned. I am an Indian citizen in India. Haven't received any such notification.
  - goombastic 7y ago
    Well, you have been notified with the CAA.
    - sbmthakur 7y ago
      CAA doesn't apply to citizens.
      - goombastic 7y ago
        It will become applicable to you or your relatives after the NRC.
  - thewhitetulip 7y ago
    Heard of the NRC? No matter how much you toe govt line, they'll still harass you at NRC centre and the day you'll suffer personally you'll realise how wrong you are.
snowcat8 7y ago
This article is written by vested interest promoting anti indian sentiments. Either way, I sympathize with the poor laborers who are only trying to earn a living. It is always the poor who bear the brunt of it all (e.g. Trump bans Muslims but buddies up with Saudi Arabia)
pm90 7y ago
This is extremely bad but also completely expected. Concrete promises of economic growth are hard to deliver on, so the Politicians will focus on inciting religious differences instead.
- deepGem 7y ago
  This is beyond bad. The government has slowly inched to their religions roots and have made religious segregation their primary mandate. I mean, at this rate, we will be no different from Saudi Arabia or other countries where religion dominates all policy decisions. I don't know if Modi is a hard core religious fanatic or if his hands are just tied down by RSS brass who are most likely inciting this nonsense, especially at a stage when the economy is in near doldrums. The government has also passed the equivalent of patriot act in India. https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-protection-bill-2019/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-protec... CAB + NRC + Data bill => Orwelian fucking dictatorship all around. What an awful time to be in India. Sadly, most people will wake up to the reality later than sooner.
  - dragonsh 7y ago
    It will be shameful to be an Indian and not to oppose it, this is completely against the idea of India and the foundations of India. Today Gandhi and all the martyrs of Indian freedom struggle must be crying in their graves. India turned into a religious dictatorship with a handful of politicians using divide and rule and slowly peeling the democracy one layer at a time (by draconian laws, infringing human rights, infringing right to protest, and forcefully suppress dissent). Hopefully sense will prevail and supreme court rule this development as unconstitutional (not so hopeful though, based on recent judgements).
    - vinni2 7y ago
      You would be surprised how many highly educated Indians even those who live in the west support Modi and all this. I remember in the Bay Area some Indians were campaigning and raising funds for Modi. I was shocked.
webartisan 7y ago
This is especially disappointing considering the time, legal and administrative effort and money will be spent on trialing and detention of alleged non-citizens. For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on improving economic and human-life indicators instead. India still ranks 103 on the world hunger index, even below its less developed neighbour – Pakistan. I hope they don't squander this majority away, but I fear they will.
FpUser 7y ago
This is disgusting and I feel it is a crime. Freedom is of the most precious things living humans have. So maybe progressive part of the world will wake the f.. up and apply some pressure.
- yumraj 7y ago
  Freedom in their own country, not in someone else's country. This is for illegal immigrants. No country in the world blindly accepts illegal immigrants.
  - pavish 7y ago
    Then why would the ruling party express dismay over hindus who were termed as illegal immigrants. They made the process easier, basically providing immediate citizenship for hindus and other minorities, excluding muslims. This is downright unethical and should be regarded as a crime.
    - quantummkv 7y ago
      Because the Hindus are other minorities (Sikhs, Buddihsts, Jians, etc) are historically from India. Its their homeland and they are persecuted elsewhere, mostly in Pakistan (read about what they did in 1971 war in bangladesh. That was a genocide) Israel provides citizenship to any persecuted Jews that come for refuge to their homeland. This has been widely accepted in the world. Then why should it be illegal for India?
      - smt1 7y ago
        How about Farsi/Zoroastrians and Christians? Either you include Muslims, because all south asian muslims can also be claimed as indian ethnicity historically, or you disinclude everyone based on that argument.
        quantummkv 7y ago
        >How about Farsi/Zoroastrians and Christians? The actual bill does include them. > Either you include Muslims, because all south asian muslims can also be claimed as indian ethnicity historically, or you disinclude everyone based on that argument. The Muslims that have been living in India according to the laws of the country won't be affected. Those that willingly went to Pakistan during the Partition got exactly what they wanted so why would they want to come back?
satya71 7y ago
The RSS (which the ruling BJP party draws its members from) was founded in the early twentieth century drawing inspiration from fascism. It's members continue to espouse their admiration for Hitler (source: I personally know some). I fear their aim is to make Muslims (initially, later all non-Hindus) fear for their lives in India.
- nocoder 7y ago
  Not sure why you are being downvoted, maybe IT cell is here too. But it is true, Golwalkar took inspiration from Nazi ideology of racial purity.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh
casouniquo 7y ago
This is bad and I fear that the next thing they are going to do is remove socialist and secular from Preamble which was added in the 42nd amendment in 1976
- yumraj 7y ago
  Secular should never have been there anyway. India was partitioned on the basis of religion, so how did we end up with one (now two) Islamic countries and one secular. Regardless how you look at it, Hindus got the short end of the stick.
  - psankar 7y ago
    What absolute non-sense! There is no such religion called Hinduism. An average Hindu Punjabi has more in common with an average Muslim Pakistani (Language, Food, Music, etc.) than a Hindu Tamilian. But the Punjabi/Rajasthani and Tamilian or both clubbed into a single Hindu religion. A Tamilian sacrifices Goat to his God. But this is not accepted by the Brahminic Hinduism as a way of worship in their temples. But all of these are merged into a false identity of "Hindu". Who is a hindu according to Indian law ? One who is not Muslim or Christian or Jain. Because there is nothing else that commonly unites them. Hindu is a western term for the land beyond Indus and it is not a religion for all these years (until the politicians decided to use it to suit their purposes). Saivam, Vaishnavism, etc. were the original religions of this land. Not this abomination called Hindutva.
    - smt1 7y ago
      Well said. Hinduism has historically always been one of the most diverse and heterogeneous religious on the planet! And that's what made it incredible resilient in the past; it simply reflected whatever local groups worshipped/beleived, and it could vary wildly between village to village. Hindutva is simply a way for a group of people to power grab by forging "us vs them" bugs in human nature.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      Name may be modern, but Hinduism refers to Sanatan Dharm that is indigenous to India. Let's not confuse religion with culture. By the above logic: An average Pakistani has more in common with Hindu/Sikh Punjabi. A Bangladeshi had more in common with Hindu Bengali. Indonesian Muslims have more in common with Malay. Central Asians with watch other than Arabs, Africans with each other. Yet, there is singular Islam. Same goes for every other religion.
jagannathtech 7y ago
People have absolutely no idea what is actually going on and the outrage fuelled (dishonest) media is capitalising on it. Poor country like India cannot afford to take in hordes of illegal migrants from its neighbours. BJP is just fulfilling its poll promises clearly described in its election manifesto of both 2014 and 2019.
- aerodog 7y ago
  Oh they're just fulfilling their promises. That makes it all ok.
  - mlnj 7y ago
    And the sad part is that this is what they had promised. This hate and divide is what the BJP has preached and yet the people voted for them even for a second term. In some ways people are getting what they voted for.
_bxg1 7y ago
Man. What is it with this wave of nationalistic zealotry that seems to be sweeping most of the world? Has it just been long enough since World War 2 that it's already time to re-learn these lessons?
- DefeatFascists 7y ago
  And HN moves any such thread out of frontpage and buries it as soon as possible. I saw this with Australia's demotion of democracy thread. Btw, India's democracy status has been demoted already to 'repressed' before this Act became active. u/dang , I respectfully enquire why this thread and any other thread discussing about democracy, opression, freedom of speech gets demoted quickly? I understand that there could be heated debates in such thread; but I don't see these threads itself as a violation of HN rules.
- whoopdedo 7y ago
  A response to the threat of global warming. Historically major climate events have been a strong indicator of wars. Researchers have been predicting this for a while.
- anovikov 7y ago
  But well, these are mostly really illegal aliens. What's the problem with this? A nation must protect it's borders. I also don't understand the fuss about Trump's wall - only people who could be against it are those who are making money on illegal foreign labor - what can be wrong about border protection? If a nation isn't securing it's borders (and yes shooting on sight those trying to illegally cross is 100% OK), it effectively doesn't exist. This statement may be in doubt about a monoethnic nation-state like say Poland, but for the U.S. which is not just polyethnic, but derives it's main competitive advantage in being so, i can't see any counter-argument. Effectively, this is how U.S. works: by picking best people and letting them in.
  - a_t48 7y ago
    One can be for border security but still against wasteful use of money towards it.
xenocyon 7y ago
I grew up in India and cherish where I came from, but the recent hard lurches towards a fascist ethnostate - often with the enthusiastic support of India's majority (including my family members) - sadden me deeply and make me wonder what the future has in store.
- enugu 7y ago
  India is far from being a fascist ethnostate, unless you have been reading media reports which are filled with false details and crucial ommisions. In fact, there are colonial laws which prevent Hindus from even running temples or schools without being taken over by the state. Also, they are routinely the targets of violence which dont come to prominence in western media reports. One of the outcomes of this post is that the extreme bias in reporting in the media has reached HN. For any Hindus reading this, stop responding emotionally and instead try to document the various kinds of bias in media thoroughly. People like Vamsee Juluri have written about coverage of Hindu issues in prominent western media. Anand Ranganathan has logs of media bias on incidents of violence etc.
pavish 7y ago
For those of you supporting the government's take on this, and their argument that proper documentation is all it takes for being included in the NRC, how do you care to explain that the family of the former president of India 'Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed' was left out of NRC? CAB is just an anti-muslim filter, and it's downright unethical. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhruddin-ali-ahmed-family-again-left-out-of-nrc-list-1594188-2019-09-01 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhr... Edit: If CAB was truly meant only to deny illegal immigrants, which is infact a right move from a country trying to support its citizens, why base it on religion? Arguments that say that other religions are persecuted in the neighbouring states, what about Myanmar? The Rohingya persecution has been going on for years and our government has done nothing notable about it. What about Srilanka and the mass genocide of Tamils? Rohingyas and Srilankan Tamils are mostly Hindus. Why not extend the help to them too? Why focus only upon the Muslim majority nations? The issue that is concerning is the fact that the act specifically makes it harder for Muslims to become citizens. The question here is whether the government is actually trying to prevent illegal immigration or trying to cut down Muslim population in particular.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  You probably forgot about atheists, LGBTQ, Jehovah's witnesses from Russia and Blacks from the US. When it comes to immigrants, India always had a policy to deal with one problem at a time. It's impossible to cover everyone and every problem with one bill. The Government has chosen to tackle the problem of religious persecution in our three neighboring countries that have Islam as their state religion, which is line with the approach. > Arguments that say that other religions are persecuted in the neighbouring states, what about Myanmar? The Rohingya persecution has been going on for years and our government has done nothing notable about it. Myanmar doesn't have a state religion. Not just Rohingya Muslims, even Hindus are persecuted in Myanmar. And they are not covered in the bill. One more thing, Rohingyas are known for some serious violence. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-evidence-reveals-rohingya-armed-group-massacred-scores-in-rakhine-state/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-e... > What about Srilanka and the mass genocide of Tamils? Rohingyas and Srilankan Tamils are mostly Hindus. Why not extend the help to them too? Tamils are victims of linguistic oppression instead of religious one. In the past, India has accepted large number of Sri Lankan Tamils. Heck, they even financed LTTE for a certain period of time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Tamils_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Tamils_in_India > Why focus only upon the Muslim majority nations? Because non-Muslims are being increasingly harassed in those countries and unlike that of refugees from Sri Lanka and Uganda, this problem was never addressed. Edit: Would appreciate counter-points instead of downvotes. This is a sensitive issue. The more hostile we are towards each other, the more hate will increase.
random314 7y ago
I found this image that seems to sum it up https://i.redd.it/52yh38os3b541.jpg https://i.redd.it/52yh38os3b541.jpg
- quantummkv 7y ago
  It's as genuine as the Russian propaganda being spread in the US. The only difference is that it's Pakistan spreading the propaganda here.
  - random314 7y ago
    Yeah sure, it is Pakistan dude. /s
  - mlnj 7y ago
    Sadly, this is no propoganda. One would be astonished at the amount of hate an average voter in this country now has. It is mostly frustration with the state of everyday affairs. Inflation, low wages, unemployment, population density all of it combined with a religious party leading everyone to believe that Muslims are the cause of all this. It is a classic right-wing trope throughout the world. Nothing different here.
    - nilsocket 7y ago
      Your statement goes completely against Indian election results. Re-electing somebody with such a huge majority clearly states, people of India are happy with present government. Don't put up your propaganda as voice Indians. Being an Indian, I'm very happy with BJP, and I'm not Hindu.
      - random314 7y ago
        > and I'm not Hindu. Must be a Hindu atheist
        sbmthakur 7y ago
DefeatFascists 7y ago
This is not about migrants, if so why are Indian muslims waiting in queue right now to verify their identify all of the sudden? Including those whose family has been in India for generations and those whose father/grandfather has fought for independence? This ACT and subsequent measures to enforce this act creates religion as the only identity and muslims being the only major religion being left out of this Act; they are by default forced to verify their identity. How many in India do you think can prove their grandfather's identiy? Especially when they don't know if they can get a dinner today.
tasogare 7y ago
> why base it on religion? Because religion matters. In this case, islam has a millenarian, worldwide record of massacring non-muslims so it doesn’t seem far fetched to impose boundaries based on this criterion. Also the Pakistan+Bangladesh/India partition was made on this religious clivage, so muslims have two others countries to choose from. As someone who almost lost a friend in a jihadist terror attack, I’m really upset when Westerners purposely turn blind on the muslim civilization misdeeds. If almost every other civilization hate them it’s for reasons rooted historically (aggressive expansionism in Middle-East, India and Europe) and killing of innocents people that happen every day around the world because they don’t believe in the muslim god.
- vijaybritto 7y ago
  This insane false fear mongering has to stop
  - shard972 7y ago
    Check your white privilege.
- jjgreen 7y ago
  You know Muslims, Christians and Jews have the same god? It's the prophets that they disagree on. I have no stake in this argument, I am an atheist, but please, a little respect for the beliefs of others.
  - zdkl 7y ago
    I believe the argument isn't so much about divinity identity, but rather about ideological imperialism.
    - mschuster91 7y ago
      > but rather about ideological imperialism Christian history (crusades, Latin America, US history) would like to have a word with you. Most major religions of this world are guilty of imperialism.
imvetri 7y ago
ok. everything US does, India does it too. Fashion - yay yay, lets buy that cloth. Entertainment - did you watch that movie, it got released last friday. Education - Ha ha. lets both go down that road. India survives because in the past ancestors were educated and righteous. Gave Indians good brain. Why? may be meditation? its fine. leave that for now. Medical/pharma - We have lots of lab rats in one country, and we have regulations control board in other country. Shake hands. Business - Goes hand/ under the table. Corruption - We share same mind set. Money is a scam. Anything that it touches, makes a cancer out of it.
vijaybritto 7y ago
This is a monstrous law. The first step is to make millions of people illegal. Next is to give all but Muslims citizenship. Muslims would be stripped off their right to vote. Even hitler would be inspired from such evil plans. (Also from the comments everyone can see how heartless people can be)
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  How is CAA monstrous when it actually expedites the process of gaining citizenship for refugees?
  - vijaybritto 7y ago
    Monstrous cause its about disenfranchising Muslims.
    - fellellor 7y ago
      BS. It is targeted at illegal Bangladeshi migrants and doesn’t touch anyone else.
    - sbmthakur 7y ago
      Could you explain how does it disenfranchise Indian Muslims?
- baud147258 7y ago
  I don't think Hitler ever bothered by passing bills and announcing to the world what he was about to do.
  - vijaybritto 7y ago
    Yeah he would have probably lasted even longer had he followed this path. This is much more devious
  - EliRivers 7y ago
    He did indeed. https://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/decrees.html https://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_pre-war_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_pre...
dessant 7y ago
It's rare to see such rabid government propaganda on HN, like some of the posts in this thread. The activity in this thread is comparable to pro-government posts seen on threads about Chinese internment camps and the Social Credit System. There are plenty of disgusting comments to peruse here, though I'd like to highlight this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823490 > I don't really understand where the genocide is coming from. At the worst you will be deported back to your homeland. If your homeland is genociding you it's not India's problem. I'm really hoping that people who express such sickening views will be banned from HN.
- owaislone 7y ago
  Every time there is a thread about the Indian government doing something questionable, there are people here ready to justify it and defend the government.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    I called out these pro-government accounts pretty heavily in a thread sometime back and my comments got flagged on basis of not providing references and calling their comments as propaganda. How much of references can you provide when you know the person is just sending you on a wild goose chase. And the comments are propaganda, repeating governmental lies. One of the comment declared openly, "I am a Hindu, I am a Nationalist, hence I am a Hindu nationalist" - which is a straight lift-off of Indian PM Modi's interview [1]. BTW Modi conducted 2002 Gujarat massacre and got banned from entering US until he became Indian PM. Read the Reuters interview from 2013 [1], and with remarkable clarity he lays down his religious fundamentalism on table. Now that he runs India, he is acting on these designs quite openly. [1] http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/07/12/interview-with-bjp-leader-narendra-modi/ http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/07/12/interview-with-bjp...
    - yorwba 7y ago
      HN doesn't prohibit people from being wrong or unquestioningly repeating government propaganda so long as they don't exclusively use HN for ideological battle and respect the other rules. So if you want an Xist to get banned, you don't need to provide references that they support X, but that they do so in a way that is against the rules (such as exclusively posting about X). Also, you shouldn't do that in the comments but by emailing hn@ycombinator.com with the relevant facts, so that the mods can decide on the correct action to take without publicly putting anyone on the spot.
sanmon3186 7y ago
> The Goalpara camp is one of at least 10 planned detention centres, according to local media reports. It is around the size of seven football pitches and designed to hold 3,000 people. While I empathize with the people being detained, the headline is really misleading. Above makes it 21 thousands - or of that order.
that70sshow 7y ago
Lol Are you Indian .. the amount of delusion you spout is outstanding.
- vijaybritto 7y ago
  Yeah Indian. I'm talking about the exact same words as spoken by the Home minister on national television. Wtf are you speaking?
azifali 7y ago
As a Muslim immigrant entrepreneur living in the Valley, I had to call my parents to allay their fears of the current law. A community of 200 million feels threatened. I don’t understand how immigrants from India support modi. Is it because he panders to our immigrant egos? We are a minority in this country and as one community we face the continued threat of right wing groups here., despite that I am amazed by the support of the same kind or worse right wing party in India.
jsnider3 7y ago
Welcome to Nazi India.
- iamshs 7y ago
  True. Yesterday Indian PM issued these statement in an election rally: "those creating violence can be identified by their clothes itself". It was a reference towards skull caps that Muslims wear usually, and protests first started inside two historically Muslim University campuses. "... seeing the riots and torching happen, citizens of country are becoming even more resolute that with this law Modi (Indian PM) has saved India". - Terming protests as riots, and saying that Muslims create conditions for violence, and hence excluding them from getting citizenship was the right move.
timbuck2 7y ago
Pre-independence India was divided by political islamists believing Two-Nation theory (that Muslims cannot live with other religions). After bloody partition that killed millions of Hindus, and again the two genocides in Kashmir and Bangladesh - illegals from both countries continue to pour into India. We don't need lectures from other countries on how to handle our problems.
- ninni 7y ago
  Upholding secular values after such a bloody partition is one of the most civilised things our country has ever done. Bharat ka hi zuban hai ye "lectures". Forgetting that is just tragic. Work on empathy.
kiwifan 7y ago
This is horrible treatment and will ruin the lives of millions. How can we not learn from mistakes in our past and grow as a global community
throwaway_0007 7y ago
Islam is a curse on this world.
hprotagonist 7y ago
The enlightenment driven away, The habit-forming pain, Mismanagement and grief: We must suffer them all again.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
The return of the concentration camp: - Ugyers in China - US draconian immigration detention centers - Now India is gettin into the mix Not a lot of hope for the rest of the 21st Century, tbh.
known 7y ago
Indian Judiciary is in pathetic state; 75% rapists are acquitted and 40 million cases are pending in Courts and 80% Judges in India are Brahmin; http://archive.vn/qdQL3 http://archive.vn/qdQL3 https://archive.vn/TIy5h https://archive.vn/TIy5h http://ncrb.gov.in http://ncrb.gov.in https://archive.md/u0PDB https://archive.md/u0PDB https://archive.vn/KThMP https://archive.vn/KThMP
known 7y ago
I suspect Indian PM Narendra Modi 'hates' India; https://archive.vn/WHifO https://archive.vn/WHifO
known 7y ago
Endorsing Citizenship Bill will eventually trickle down to separate countries for Muslim/Sikh/Christian/Parsi/Buddhist/Jain/SC/ST Communities in India aka http://archive.vn/tUrIv http://archive.vn/tUrIv
known 7y ago
And this is why India is the most racist country in the world https://archive.vn/mPsqz https://archive.vn/mPsqz
known 7y ago
If you believe in Secular India protest/oppose CAA/CAB/NRC; Why? Illegal immigrants are granted Indian Citizenship; But Legal immigrants from Muslim community are denied Indian Citizenship; http://archive.vn/lhvHH http://archive.vn/lhvHH
- cmonnow 7y ago
  There is a difference between positive discrimination (affirmative action) and negative discrimination (ill-treatment) If you are new to this issue, and want to understand the CAA/CAB in simple words - https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_simple_words/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_...
silentguy 7y ago
Sequence of events: * Indigenous people of Assam complain about illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. * BJP (party in power) promises to deport illegal immigrants * NRC (National Registry of Citizenship) law is brought to identify and deport illegal immigrants, most of them believed to be Muslims. NRC is applied in Assam for the cost of 16 Billion INR. 1.9 million illegal immigrants are identified. * It is found that 1.2 million immigrants are Hindus. BJP, a pro Hindu party, can't afford to deport 1.2 million Hindus. * CAA (Citizenship Amendment Act) is brought to give citizenship to all but Muslim. * Protests erupt over this act being signed by government.
- fellellor 7y ago
  This entire sequence is incorrect. The sequence dates back to the Assam Accord of 1985 when the current BJP was nowhere close to power. Then there was the Supreme Court mandated NRC process which was decided in 2013. Without mention of these, your so called sequence of events is nothing but a bunch of lies.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  NRC was mandated by Assam Accord that was signed by Rajiv Gandhi in the last century. The NRC was carried out in Assam after the SC verdict in 2013 which directed the Government to do it.
cmonnow 7y ago
There are few misconceptions about the recently enacted CAA, that need to be clarified. Citizenship Amendment Act is a law to fast-track citizenship of 'persecuted religious minorities' in 3 neighboring countries Afghanistan/Pakistan/Bangladesh. It is a case of positive discrimination (affirmative action for the Americans) towards Hindu/Christian/Sikh/Buddhist/Parsi refugees. Here is the reddit thread explaining the Act's intricacies and FAQ - https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_simple_words https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_... It does not affect normal citizens of India. It is also NOT a case of negative discrimination against Muslim refugees, like most detractors claim it to be. Official tweet from India's Home Ministry clarifies this - https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/1207304121960685569 https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/120730412196068556.... The usual waiting period of 11 years stays as it is for them. For minority refugees, it is reduced to 5 years. That's all. Every country has a database of its citizens. India was lagging far behind in this. Due to enormous population, porous borders and poor living conditions, there are a lot more undocumented immigrants in India than probably any other country on earth. The National Register of Citizens is an attempt to set that right.
- goombastic 7y ago
  Again, the above view is the government line and is meant to misguide and create ambiguity. Read the CAA in combination with the NRC to understand how it is similar to the Nuremberg laws. This thread has a lot of government propaganda shills.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't break the HN guidelines by insinuating that commenters you disagree with are shills or astroturfing. After many years investigating this kind of thing on HN I can tell you that it is basically always an imaginary perception, and it degrades discussion badly, so it's not allowed here. Lots more explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... Also, using multiple accounts this way will get your accounts banned on HN, so please don't do that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
opSecularIndia 7y ago
Someone needs to tell anonymous somewhere to help and join India's youth against a fascist government. This is the final straw. India's ban on internet is straight up challenging the Democratic pillars

200 points by 0xmohit 7y ago

To those who are questioning why, this is why (reports from Pakistan's most reputed news paper) https://www.google.com/search?q=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3Adawn.com&oq=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3Adawn.com https://www.google.com/search?q=Hindu+girl+converted+site%3A... Or feel free to search "Hindu girl converted site:dawn.com"

DefeatFascists 7y ago
Then why Indian muslims are verifyng their grandfather's identiy now?
thewhitetulip 7y ago
You can also Google how Minority Muslims are declared "Non Muslim"
- yumraj 7y ago
  And you can refer to my comment below where I said that Ahmadis should be included in my opinion.
  - thewhitetulip 7y ago
    The fact that they're not included shows the bias that the government had. It's obvious
    - yumraj 7y ago
      We don't even know how many Ahmadis are even coming to India, but we do know there are millions of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and other minorities. Moreover, Hindu girls are being abducted and being force converted and married away. I have not seen any similar news related to Ahmadis. So, this law is about helping those who need to be helped en masse, Ahmadi cases can be dealt with on a case by case basis under existing laws.
yumraj 7y ago
I never question the downvotes because HN frowns on it. But in this instance in genuinely curious why? Above comment points to Pakistan's most reputed English newspaper, not a FUD site. Or do the plight of Hindus don't matter??

quantummkv 7y ago

> For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on improving economic and human-life indicators instead. The government in its election pitch made this one of the major points that they would execute if they came to power. So please don't be under the assumption that the people that voted don't want this to be implemented. Think of it as technical debt in the codebase. It has to be addressed before you can execute a growth strategy on your product or it will come to haunt you later.

vijaybritto 7y ago
Genocide is not like technical debt!!
- quantummkv 7y ago
  I don't really understand where the genocide is coming from. At the worst you will be deported back to your homeland. If your homeland is genociding you it's not India's problem.
  - vijaybritto 7y ago
    Yeah Gujarat 2002 was in Pakistan right/??
    - quantummkv 7y ago
      Considering how you continue to bring up an issue that was disproved multiple times at every level (That too during Congress rule so you cannot accuse Modi of manipulating investigating agencies and courts), It might have been. Continuing to harp on an non-issue like this in public is the reason why the voters keep voting Modi in and the opposition out.
      - vijaybritto 7y ago
        cause Our courts never really rule for justice when muslims are in the receiving end. Time and time again. Gujarat riots, babar masjid and many more. This is a non issue for fascists but it is for the victims.

nilsocket 7y ago

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and stayed in India for certain years, they can become India citizens. How many years: For Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Jain, Buddhist and Parsi 5years. For Muslims 11years. Why segregation based on religion? Because of persecution of minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan. Pakistan, Non-Muslim population fell from 23% to 3%. Bangladesh, Non-Muslim population fell from 22% to 8%. Afghanistan, I don't know. Because, religious minorities from these three countries don't have any other place to go except India. NRC (National Register for Citizens) is aimed at moving illegal immigrants to detention camps or they are free to leave to there actual country. During NRC one(Everybody in India) needs to prove there citizenship. This Bill is applicable only for illegal immigrants(It has got nothing to do with Indian Citizens), If somebody wants to come to India legally, they can come.

goombastic 7y ago
Your comment is disingenuous and obfuscates the logic of the issue. The combo of the NRC+CAA ensures that Indians without papers are liable to be in internment camps. If you don't have papers, you are declared an illegal. There are a lot of Indians who don't have formal documentation. There is also a lot of corruption that makes it possible for officials to reject formal documents. You then get declared illegal. Once in an internment camp, you cant go anyplace else. If you are a muslim, you don't have the option of getting out of the camp at all. if you are a poor Indian or a dissenter of any sort, you will face the same logic and all documents you produce will be deemed unfit. A single internment camp costs 40Crores to make. To house just the northeast's so called illegals, you need close to 25K crores. This is a government that has just recently said no to primary education budgets for lack of cash. You think they have the budgets for large scale concentration camps? No. They are building up for a pogrom. This is straight up Nazi policy. The other question I keep asking is how is this a legitimate government if all the voters themselves have been designated illegal/noncitizens by default? Last question and a prediction, why is the government transferring the workload of proving citizenship on to the population? This is to make people protest. Given enough protests, they will flip the policy to say, "hear hear, no, we will find the illegals for you, no need to stand in queues." Once they do that, they will form squads and informers like in Nazi Germany and hunt down the "unwanted."

faissaloo 7y ago

This feels like the bit before they commit genocide.

silentguy 7y ago
I don't know why are downvoted and flagged. Here is similar opinion from genocide expert. [Preparation for a genocide under way in India: Dr. Gregory Stanton](https://www.sabrangindia.in/article/preparation-genocide-under-way-india-dr-gregory-stanton https://www.sabrangindia.in/article/preparation-genocide-und...)

reactspa 7y ago

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islamic states"]) is now automatically granted Indian citizenship. Protestors are worried about loss of jobs and demographic replacement by these new citizens. So, most protestors are not protesting muslim exclusion, they're protesting anyone's inclusion.

Scipio_Afri 7y ago
This seems like a really misinformed comment. Why would the protests be occurring most strongly in predominately Muslim areas? This is backed up by numerous international media reports, including comments from people who are protesting. "NEW DELHI—Protests against a new citizenship law favoring non-Muslim immigrants erupted in violence in a Muslim-dominated part of the Indian capital where communal tensions have flared in the past, as the prime minister appealed for calm. “People are opposing this law because it discriminates against the Muslims,” said Chaudhary Mateen Ahmad, a former Congress party legislator in the Delhi Assembly from Seelampur, the northeastern Delhi area where protest violence broke out on Tuesday afternoon. “They are saying the law should treat everyone equally; there should be no discrimination.” The new law eases the path to citizenship for individuals from persecuted religious groups from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan, but only if they aren’t Muslim. That distinction has set off alarm in India’s 200-million strong Muslim community, who say the law, along with a separate national registry, could be used to disenfranchise many Muslims. The law has also alarmed Indians who view its singling out one religious group as betraying the country’s secular tradition of protecting all religious groups. The protests on Tuesday followed weekend demonstrations by students and local residents near the Jamia Millia Islamia University in New Delhi, in which police chased protesters into the campus, fired tear gas and beat them with batons, injuring several students. Students in several Indian cities have been holding protests in support of the Jamia students." https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-protests-against-new-law-spread-to-muslim-area-of-capital-11576596978 https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-protests-against-new-law-...

routerhash 7y ago

This is not a case of `stripped of citizenship`. India just built detention camps for illegal immigrants in the country. I think every country in the world does this to illegal immigrants (and later deported). The protests that are happening in the eastern part of India is against giving citizenship to illegal immigrants.

psankar 7y ago
oh please. Stop the lies. Even the sons of former president of India are considered illegal immigrants https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhruddin-ali-ahmed-family-again-left-out-of-nrc-list-1594188-2019-09-01 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhr... As per the new law, if there are Hindu immigrants from Bangladesh, they are accepted in India; but not Muslims who were born in India, had their education in India, if they cannot find their ancestor's birth certificates. This is a plan case of religious discrimination by the the Indian hindu rightwing Government which is moving with the support of rich NRI assholes and the religious thugs of Hindustan.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  I don't support pan-India NRC. But what makes you think that the requirements for a nationwide NRC will be same as that of Assam?
goombastic 7y ago
Well, in every other place in the world, the government doesn't wake up one day and ask citizens to prove they are Citizens. This is what happens if you elect bombastic incapable governments. The government doesn't realize that by their own logic they aren't elected by citizens anymore. By their own logic, they need to hold elections again I guess.
- routerhash 7y ago
  This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

goombastic 7y ago

This government is going nuts trying to create a hindu muslim divide. They have effectively asked all Indian citizens to prove they are Indians or otherwise be interned. What kind of reversal of roles is that? Also then they make sure that muslims if interned cannot claim to be a citizen no matter what. If this government now says that everyone has to prove citizenship, how come the results of the general elections are still valid? Also, the Indian economy is in shambles and digging its own grave. Food inflation, unemployement, and all markers of quality of life are down. This is a genocide in the making and the shills on TV and the media are not silent, but complicit. This is the Hitler/China playbook in action and the world needs to oppose this.

sbmthakur 7y ago
> They have effectively asked all Indian citizens to prove they are Indians or otherwise be interned. I am an Indian citizen in India. Haven't received any such notification.
- goombastic 7y ago
  Well, you have been notified with the CAA.
  - sbmthakur 7y ago
    CAA doesn't apply to citizens.
    - goombastic 7y ago
      It will become applicable to you or your relatives after the NRC.
- thewhitetulip 7y ago
  Heard of the NRC? No matter how much you toe govt line, they'll still harass you at NRC centre and the day you'll suffer personally you'll realise how wrong you are.

snowcat8 7y ago

This article is written by vested interest promoting anti indian sentiments. Either way, I sympathize with the poor laborers who are only trying to earn a living. It is always the poor who bear the brunt of it all (e.g. Trump bans Muslims but buddies up with Saudi Arabia)

pm90 7y ago

This is extremely bad but also completely expected. Concrete promises of economic growth are hard to deliver on, so the Politicians will focus on inciting religious differences instead.

deepGem 7y ago
This is beyond bad. The government has slowly inched to their religions roots and have made religious segregation their primary mandate. I mean, at this rate, we will be no different from Saudi Arabia or other countries where religion dominates all policy decisions. I don't know if Modi is a hard core religious fanatic or if his hands are just tied down by RSS brass who are most likely inciting this nonsense, especially at a stage when the economy is in near doldrums. The government has also passed the equivalent of patriot act in India. https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-protection-bill-2019/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/10/india-personal-data-protec... CAB + NRC + Data bill => Orwelian fucking dictatorship all around. What an awful time to be in India. Sadly, most people will wake up to the reality later than sooner.
- dragonsh 7y ago
  It will be shameful to be an Indian and not to oppose it, this is completely against the idea of India and the foundations of India. Today Gandhi and all the martyrs of Indian freedom struggle must be crying in their graves. India turned into a religious dictatorship with a handful of politicians using divide and rule and slowly peeling the democracy one layer at a time (by draconian laws, infringing human rights, infringing right to protest, and forcefully suppress dissent). Hopefully sense will prevail and supreme court rule this development as unconstitutional (not so hopeful though, based on recent judgements).
  - vinni2 7y ago
    You would be surprised how many highly educated Indians even those who live in the west support Modi and all this. I remember in the Bay Area some Indians were campaigning and raising funds for Modi. I was shocked.

webartisan 7y ago

This is especially disappointing considering the time, legal and administrative effort and money will be spent on trialing and detention of alleged non-citizens. For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on improving economic and human-life indicators instead. India still ranks 103 on the world hunger index, even below its less developed neighbour – Pakistan. I hope they don't squander this majority away, but I fear they will.

FpUser 7y ago

This is disgusting and I feel it is a crime. Freedom is of the most precious things living humans have. So maybe progressive part of the world will wake the f.. up and apply some pressure.

yumraj 7y ago
Freedom in their own country, not in someone else's country. This is for illegal immigrants. No country in the world blindly accepts illegal immigrants.
- pavish 7y ago
  Then why would the ruling party express dismay over hindus who were termed as illegal immigrants. They made the process easier, basically providing immediate citizenship for hindus and other minorities, excluding muslims. This is downright unethical and should be regarded as a crime.
  - quantummkv 7y ago
    Because the Hindus are other minorities (Sikhs, Buddihsts, Jians, etc) are historically from India. Its their homeland and they are persecuted elsewhere, mostly in Pakistan (read about what they did in 1971 war in bangladesh. That was a genocide) Israel provides citizenship to any persecuted Jews that come for refuge to their homeland. This has been widely accepted in the world. Then why should it be illegal for India?
    - smt1 7y ago
      How about Farsi/Zoroastrians and Christians? Either you include Muslims, because all south asian muslims can also be claimed as indian ethnicity historically, or you disinclude everyone based on that argument.
      - quantummkv 7y ago
        >How about Farsi/Zoroastrians and Christians? The actual bill does include them. > Either you include Muslims, because all south asian muslims can also be claimed as indian ethnicity historically, or you disinclude everyone based on that argument. The Muslims that have been living in India according to the laws of the country won't be affected. Those that willingly went to Pakistan during the Partition got exactly what they wanted so why would they want to come back?

satya71 7y ago

The RSS (which the ruling BJP party draws its members from) was founded in the early twentieth century drawing inspiration from fascism. It's members continue to espouse their admiration for Hitler (source: I personally know some). I fear their aim is to make Muslims (initially, later all non-Hindus) fear for their lives in India.

nocoder 7y ago
Not sure why you are being downvoted, maybe IT cell is here too. But it is true, Golwalkar took inspiration from Nazi ideology of racial purity.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh

casouniquo 7y ago

This is bad and I fear that the next thing they are going to do is remove socialist and secular from Preamble which was added in the 42nd amendment in 1976

yumraj 7y ago
Secular should never have been there anyway. India was partitioned on the basis of religion, so how did we end up with one (now two) Islamic countries and one secular. Regardless how you look at it, Hindus got the short end of the stick.
- psankar 7y ago
  What absolute non-sense! There is no such religion called Hinduism. An average Hindu Punjabi has more in common with an average Muslim Pakistani (Language, Food, Music, etc.) than a Hindu Tamilian. But the Punjabi/Rajasthani and Tamilian or both clubbed into a single Hindu religion. A Tamilian sacrifices Goat to his God. But this is not accepted by the Brahminic Hinduism as a way of worship in their temples. But all of these are merged into a false identity of "Hindu". Who is a hindu according to Indian law ? One who is not Muslim or Christian or Jain. Because there is nothing else that commonly unites them. Hindu is a western term for the land beyond Indus and it is not a religion for all these years (until the politicians decided to use it to suit their purposes). Saivam, Vaishnavism, etc. were the original religions of this land. Not this abomination called Hindutva.
  - smt1 7y ago
    Well said. Hinduism has historically always been one of the most diverse and heterogeneous religious on the planet! And that's what made it incredible resilient in the past; it simply reflected whatever local groups worshipped/beleived, and it could vary wildly between village to village. Hindutva is simply a way for a group of people to power grab by forging "us vs them" bugs in human nature.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    Name may be modern, but Hinduism refers to Sanatan Dharm that is indigenous to India. Let's not confuse religion with culture. By the above logic: An average Pakistani has more in common with Hindu/Sikh Punjabi. A Bangladeshi had more in common with Hindu Bengali. Indonesian Muslims have more in common with Malay. Central Asians with watch other than Arabs, Africans with each other. Yet, there is singular Islam. Same goes for every other religion.

jagannathtech 7y ago

People have absolutely no idea what is actually going on and the outrage fuelled (dishonest) media is capitalising on it. Poor country like India cannot afford to take in hordes of illegal migrants from its neighbours. BJP is just fulfilling its poll promises clearly described in its election manifesto of both 2014 and 2019.

aerodog 7y ago
Oh they're just fulfilling their promises. That makes it all ok.
- mlnj 7y ago
  And the sad part is that this is what they had promised. This hate and divide is what the BJP has preached and yet the people voted for them even for a second term. In some ways people are getting what they voted for.

_bxg1 7y ago

Man. What is it with this wave of nationalistic zealotry that seems to be sweeping most of the world? Has it just been long enough since World War 2 that it's already time to re-learn these lessons?

DefeatFascists 7y ago
And HN moves any such thread out of frontpage and buries it as soon as possible. I saw this with Australia's demotion of democracy thread. Btw, India's democracy status has been demoted already to 'repressed' before this Act became active. u/dang , I respectfully enquire why this thread and any other thread discussing about democracy, opression, freedom of speech gets demoted quickly? I understand that there could be heated debates in such thread; but I don't see these threads itself as a violation of HN rules.
whoopdedo 7y ago
A response to the threat of global warming. Historically major climate events have been a strong indicator of wars. Researchers have been predicting this for a while.
anovikov 7y ago
But well, these are mostly really illegal aliens. What's the problem with this? A nation must protect it's borders. I also don't understand the fuss about Trump's wall - only people who could be against it are those who are making money on illegal foreign labor - what can be wrong about border protection? If a nation isn't securing it's borders (and yes shooting on sight those trying to illegally cross is 100% OK), it effectively doesn't exist. This statement may be in doubt about a monoethnic nation-state like say Poland, but for the U.S. which is not just polyethnic, but derives it's main competitive advantage in being so, i can't see any counter-argument. Effectively, this is how U.S. works: by picking best people and letting them in.
- a_t48 7y ago
  One can be for border security but still against wasteful use of money towards it.

xenocyon 7y ago

I grew up in India and cherish where I came from, but the recent hard lurches towards a fascist ethnostate - often with the enthusiastic support of India's majority (including my family members) - sadden me deeply and make me wonder what the future has in store.

enugu 7y ago
India is far from being a fascist ethnostate, unless you have been reading media reports which are filled with false details and crucial ommisions. In fact, there are colonial laws which prevent Hindus from even running temples or schools without being taken over by the state. Also, they are routinely the targets of violence which dont come to prominence in western media reports. One of the outcomes of this post is that the extreme bias in reporting in the media has reached HN. For any Hindus reading this, stop responding emotionally and instead try to document the various kinds of bias in media thoroughly. People like Vamsee Juluri have written about coverage of Hindu issues in prominent western media. Anand Ranganathan has logs of media bias on incidents of violence etc.

pavish 7y ago

For those of you supporting the government's take on this, and their argument that proper documentation is all it takes for being included in the NRC, how do you care to explain that the family of the former president of India 'Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed' was left out of NRC? CAB is just an anti-muslim filter, and it's downright unethical. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhruddin-ali-ahmed-family-again-left-out-of-nrc-list-1594188-2019-09-01 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/former-president-fakhr... Edit: If CAB was truly meant only to deny illegal immigrants, which is infact a right move from a country trying to support its citizens, why base it on religion? Arguments that say that other religions are persecuted in the neighbouring states, what about Myanmar? The Rohingya persecution has been going on for years and our government has done nothing notable about it. What about Srilanka and the mass genocide of Tamils? Rohingyas and Srilankan Tamils are mostly Hindus. Why not extend the help to them too? Why focus only upon the Muslim majority nations? The issue that is concerning is the fact that the act specifically makes it harder for Muslims to become citizens. The question here is whether the government is actually trying to prevent illegal immigration or trying to cut down Muslim population in particular.

sbmthakur 7y ago
You probably forgot about atheists, LGBTQ, Jehovah's witnesses from Russia and Blacks from the US. When it comes to immigrants, India always had a policy to deal with one problem at a time. It's impossible to cover everyone and every problem with one bill. The Government has chosen to tackle the problem of religious persecution in our three neighboring countries that have Islam as their state religion, which is line with the approach. > Arguments that say that other religions are persecuted in the neighbouring states, what about Myanmar? The Rohingya persecution has been going on for years and our government has done nothing notable about it. Myanmar doesn't have a state religion. Not just Rohingya Muslims, even Hindus are persecuted in Myanmar. And they are not covered in the bill. One more thing, Rohingyas are known for some serious violence. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-evidence-reveals-rohingya-armed-group-massacred-scores-in-rakhine-state/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-e... > What about Srilanka and the mass genocide of Tamils? Rohingyas and Srilankan Tamils are mostly Hindus. Why not extend the help to them too? Tamils are victims of linguistic oppression instead of religious one. In the past, India has accepted large number of Sri Lankan Tamils. Heck, they even financed LTTE for a certain period of time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Tamils_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Tamils_in_India > Why focus only upon the Muslim majority nations? Because non-Muslims are being increasingly harassed in those countries and unlike that of refugees from Sri Lanka and Uganda, this problem was never addressed. Edit: Would appreciate counter-points instead of downvotes. This is a sensitive issue. The more hostile we are towards each other, the more hate will increase.

random314 7y ago

I found this image that seems to sum it up https://i.redd.it/52yh38os3b541.jpg https://i.redd.it/52yh38os3b541.jpg

quantummkv 7y ago
It's as genuine as the Russian propaganda being spread in the US. The only difference is that it's Pakistan spreading the propaganda here.
- random314 7y ago
  Yeah sure, it is Pakistan dude. /s
- mlnj 7y ago
  Sadly, this is no propoganda. One would be astonished at the amount of hate an average voter in this country now has. It is mostly frustration with the state of everyday affairs. Inflation, low wages, unemployment, population density all of it combined with a religious party leading everyone to believe that Muslims are the cause of all this. It is a classic right-wing trope throughout the world. Nothing different here.
  - nilsocket 7y ago
    Your statement goes completely against Indian election results. Re-electing somebody with such a huge majority clearly states, people of India are happy with present government. Don't put up your propaganda as voice Indians. Being an Indian, I'm very happy with BJP, and I'm not Hindu.
    - random314 7y ago
      > and I'm not Hindu. Must be a Hindu atheist
      - sbmthakur 7y ago

DefeatFascists 7y ago

This is not about migrants, if so why are Indian muslims waiting in queue right now to verify their identify all of the sudden? Including those whose family has been in India for generations and those whose father/grandfather has fought for independence? This ACT and subsequent measures to enforce this act creates religion as the only identity and muslims being the only major religion being left out of this Act; they are by default forced to verify their identity. How many in India do you think can prove their grandfather's identiy? Especially when they don't know if they can get a dinner today.

tasogare 7y ago

> why base it on religion? Because religion matters. In this case, islam has a millenarian, worldwide record of massacring non-muslims so it doesn’t seem far fetched to impose boundaries based on this criterion. Also the Pakistan+Bangladesh/India partition was made on this religious clivage, so muslims have two others countries to choose from. As someone who almost lost a friend in a jihadist terror attack, I’m really upset when Westerners purposely turn blind on the muslim civilization misdeeds. If almost every other civilization hate them it’s for reasons rooted historically (aggressive expansionism in Middle-East, India and Europe) and killing of innocents people that happen every day around the world because they don’t believe in the muslim god.

vijaybritto 7y ago
This insane false fear mongering has to stop
- shard972 7y ago
  Check your white privilege.
jjgreen 7y ago
You know Muslims, Christians and Jews have the same god? It's the prophets that they disagree on. I have no stake in this argument, I am an atheist, but please, a little respect for the beliefs of others.
- zdkl 7y ago
  I believe the argument isn't so much about divinity identity, but rather about ideological imperialism.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    > but rather about ideological imperialism Christian history (crusades, Latin America, US history) would like to have a word with you. Most major religions of this world are guilty of imperialism.

imvetri 7y ago

ok. everything US does, India does it too. Fashion - yay yay, lets buy that cloth. Entertainment - did you watch that movie, it got released last friday. Education - Ha ha. lets both go down that road. India survives because in the past ancestors were educated and righteous. Gave Indians good brain. Why? may be meditation? its fine. leave that for now. Medical/pharma - We have lots of lab rats in one country, and we have regulations control board in other country. Shake hands. Business - Goes hand/ under the table. Corruption - We share same mind set. Money is a scam. Anything that it touches, makes a cancer out of it.

vijaybritto 7y ago

This is a monstrous law. The first step is to make millions of people illegal. Next is to give all but Muslims citizenship. Muslims would be stripped off their right to vote. Even hitler would be inspired from such evil plans. (Also from the comments everyone can see how heartless people can be)

sbmthakur 7y ago
How is CAA monstrous when it actually expedites the process of gaining citizenship for refugees?
- vijaybritto 7y ago
  Monstrous cause its about disenfranchising Muslims.
  - fellellor 7y ago
    BS. It is targeted at illegal Bangladeshi migrants and doesn’t touch anyone else.
  - sbmthakur 7y ago
    Could you explain how does it disenfranchise Indian Muslims?
baud147258 7y ago
I don't think Hitler ever bothered by passing bills and announcing to the world what he was about to do.
- vijaybritto 7y ago
  Yeah he would have probably lasted even longer had he followed this path. This is much more devious
- EliRivers 7y ago
  He did indeed. https://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/decrees.html https://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_pre-war_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_pre...

dessant 7y ago

It's rare to see such rabid government propaganda on HN, like some of the posts in this thread. The activity in this thread is comparable to pro-government posts seen on threads about Chinese internment camps and the Social Credit System. There are plenty of disgusting comments to peruse here, though I'd like to highlight this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823490 > I don't really understand where the genocide is coming from. At the worst you will be deported back to your homeland. If your homeland is genociding you it's not India's problem. I'm really hoping that people who express such sickening views will be banned from HN.

owaislone 7y ago
Every time there is a thread about the Indian government doing something questionable, there are people here ready to justify it and defend the government.
- iamshs 7y ago
  I called out these pro-government accounts pretty heavily in a thread sometime back and my comments got flagged on basis of not providing references and calling their comments as propaganda. How much of references can you provide when you know the person is just sending you on a wild goose chase. And the comments are propaganda, repeating governmental lies. One of the comment declared openly, "I am a Hindu, I am a Nationalist, hence I am a Hindu nationalist" - which is a straight lift-off of Indian PM Modi's interview [1]. BTW Modi conducted 2002 Gujarat massacre and got banned from entering US until he became Indian PM. Read the Reuters interview from 2013 [1], and with remarkable clarity he lays down his religious fundamentalism on table. Now that he runs India, he is acting on these designs quite openly. [1] http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/07/12/interview-with-bjp-leader-narendra-modi/ http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/07/12/interview-with-bjp...
  - yorwba 7y ago
    HN doesn't prohibit people from being wrong or unquestioningly repeating government propaganda so long as they don't exclusively use HN for ideological battle and respect the other rules. So if you want an Xist to get banned, you don't need to provide references that they support X, but that they do so in a way that is against the rules (such as exclusively posting about X). Also, you shouldn't do that in the comments but by emailing hn@ycombinator.com with the relevant facts, so that the mods can decide on the correct action to take without publicly putting anyone on the spot.

sanmon3186 7y ago

> The Goalpara camp is one of at least 10 planned detention centres, according to local media reports. It is around the size of seven football pitches and designed to hold 3,000 people. While I empathize with the people being detained, the headline is really misleading. Above makes it 21 thousands - or of that order.

that70sshow 7y ago

Lol Are you Indian .. the amount of delusion you spout is outstanding.

vijaybritto 7y ago
Yeah Indian. I'm talking about the exact same words as spoken by the Home minister on national television. Wtf are you speaking?

azifali 7y ago

As a Muslim immigrant entrepreneur living in the Valley, I had to call my parents to allay their fears of the current law. A community of 200 million feels threatened. I don’t understand how immigrants from India support modi. Is it because he panders to our immigrant egos? We are a minority in this country and as one community we face the continued threat of right wing groups here., despite that I am amazed by the support of the same kind or worse right wing party in India.

jsnider3 7y ago

Welcome to Nazi India.

iamshs 7y ago
True. Yesterday Indian PM issued these statement in an election rally: "those creating violence can be identified by their clothes itself". It was a reference towards skull caps that Muslims wear usually, and protests first started inside two historically Muslim University campuses. "... seeing the riots and torching happen, citizens of country are becoming even more resolute that with this law Modi (Indian PM) has saved India". - Terming protests as riots, and saying that Muslims create conditions for violence, and hence excluding them from getting citizenship was the right move.

timbuck2 7y ago

Pre-independence India was divided by political islamists believing Two-Nation theory (that Muslims cannot live with other religions). After bloody partition that killed millions of Hindus, and again the two genocides in Kashmir and Bangladesh - illegals from both countries continue to pour into India. We don't need lectures from other countries on how to handle our problems.

ninni 7y ago
Upholding secular values after such a bloody partition is one of the most civilised things our country has ever done. Bharat ka hi zuban hai ye "lectures". Forgetting that is just tragic. Work on empathy.

kiwifan 7y ago

This is horrible treatment and will ruin the lives of millions. How can we not learn from mistakes in our past and grow as a global community

throwaway_0007 7y ago

Islam is a curse on this world.

hprotagonist 7y ago

The enlightenment driven away, The habit-forming pain, Mismanagement and grief: We must suffer them all again.

blaser-waffle 7y ago

The return of the concentration camp: - Ugyers in China - US draconian immigration detention centers - Now India is gettin into the mix Not a lot of hope for the rest of the 21st Century, tbh.

known 7y ago

Indian Judiciary is in pathetic state; 75% rapists are acquitted and 40 million cases are pending in Courts and 80% Judges in India are Brahmin; http://archive.vn/qdQL3 http://archive.vn/qdQL3 https://archive.vn/TIy5h https://archive.vn/TIy5h http://ncrb.gov.in http://ncrb.gov.in https://archive.md/u0PDB https://archive.md/u0PDB https://archive.vn/KThMP https://archive.vn/KThMP

known 7y ago

I suspect Indian PM Narendra Modi 'hates' India; https://archive.vn/WHifO https://archive.vn/WHifO

known 7y ago

Endorsing Citizenship Bill will eventually trickle down to separate countries for Muslim/Sikh/Christian/Parsi/Buddhist/Jain/SC/ST Communities in India aka http://archive.vn/tUrIv http://archive.vn/tUrIv

known 7y ago

And this is why India is the most racist country in the world https://archive.vn/mPsqz https://archive.vn/mPsqz

known 7y ago

If you believe in Secular India protest/oppose CAA/CAB/NRC; Why? Illegal immigrants are granted Indian Citizenship; But Legal immigrants from Muslim community are denied Indian Citizenship; http://archive.vn/lhvHH http://archive.vn/lhvHH

cmonnow 7y ago
There is a difference between positive discrimination (affirmative action) and negative discrimination (ill-treatment) If you are new to this issue, and want to understand the CAA/CAB in simple words - https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_simple_words/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_...

silentguy 7y ago

Sequence of events: * Indigenous people of Assam complain about illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. * BJP (party in power) promises to deport illegal immigrants * NRC (National Registry of Citizenship) law is brought to identify and deport illegal immigrants, most of them believed to be Muslims. NRC is applied in Assam for the cost of 16 Billion INR. 1.9 million illegal immigrants are identified. * It is found that 1.2 million immigrants are Hindus. BJP, a pro Hindu party, can't afford to deport 1.2 million Hindus. * CAA (Citizenship Amendment Act) is brought to give citizenship to all but Muslim. * Protests erupt over this act being signed by government.

fellellor 7y ago
This entire sequence is incorrect. The sequence dates back to the Assam Accord of 1985 when the current BJP was nowhere close to power. Then there was the Supreme Court mandated NRC process which was decided in 2013. Without mention of these, your so called sequence of events is nothing but a bunch of lies.
sbmthakur 7y ago
NRC was mandated by Assam Accord that was signed by Rajiv Gandhi in the last century. The NRC was carried out in Assam after the SC verdict in 2013 which directed the Government to do it.

cmonnow 7y ago

There are few misconceptions about the recently enacted CAA, that need to be clarified. Citizenship Amendment Act is a law to fast-track citizenship of 'persecuted religious minorities' in 3 neighboring countries Afghanistan/Pakistan/Bangladesh. It is a case of positive discrimination (affirmative action for the Americans) towards Hindu/Christian/Sikh/Buddhist/Parsi refugees. Here is the reddit thread explaining the Act's intricacies and FAQ - https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_simple_words https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_... It does not affect normal citizens of India. It is also NOT a case of negative discrimination against Muslim refugees, like most detractors claim it to be. Official tweet from India's Home Ministry clarifies this - https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/1207304121960685569 https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/120730412196068556.... The usual waiting period of 11 years stays as it is for them. For minority refugees, it is reduced to 5 years. That's all. Every country has a database of its citizens. India was lagging far behind in this. Due to enormous population, porous borders and poor living conditions, there are a lot more undocumented immigrants in India than probably any other country on earth. The National Register of Citizens is an attempt to set that right.

goombastic 7y ago
Again, the above view is the government line and is meant to misguide and create ambiguity. Read the CAA in combination with the NRC to understand how it is similar to the Nuremberg laws. This thread has a lot of government propaganda shills.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't break the HN guidelines by insinuating that commenters you disagree with are shills or astroturfing. After many years investigating this kind of thing on HN I can tell you that it is basically always an imaginary perception, and it degrades discussion badly, so it's not allowed here. Lots more explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... Also, using multiple accounts this way will get your accounts banned on HN, so please don't do that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

opSecularIndia 7y ago

Someone needs to tell anonymous somewhere to help and join India's youth against a fascist government. This is the final straw. India's ban on internet is straight up challenging the Democratic pillars