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>This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways

>This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. The same thing happened recently with the Chromebook I purchased for my significant other. She's a very light computer user, so we thought it was a perfect device. It was great, until one day she received a message saying, essentially, "this device is no longer supported and is now insecure". Meanwhile, I've got an Ubuntu distribution running on a 10 year old computer in my basement (and soon will on this Chromebook). I certainly won't buy another Chromebook to have it unsupported in 3 years.

ProZsolt 7y ago
You should get ~7 years of update. Here you can check: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en I think it should be more, but it's on par with MacBooks
- boredishBoi 7y ago
  Actually MacBooks get 6/7 years from when Apple stops selling them. In contrast, the timer starts as soon as the first Chromebook with that cpu is released. It was a nasty surprise when I found that out
  - choward 7y ago
    That is terrible. So they'll never create a device that is good enough that they'll sell for for 6 years unless they sell something they don't support.
    - pgeorgi 7y ago
      Or extend the support: https://9to5google.com/2019/11/05/google-chromebooks-extended-software-support/ https://9to5google.com/2019/11/05/google-chromebooks-extende... Other than that, few vendors sell 6 year old computers. Since Apple is often put up as model company here: 2013 had the iPhone 5s which was sold until early 2016, and the end-2013 MacBook Pro (based on Haswell) which was replaced by its successor in 2014 (based on Haswell-Refresh).
    - daemin 7y ago
      I think the point was that the product was so minimal and cheap that you would throw it away and get a new one like a phone.
    - kulahan 7y ago
      Correct. That's why the vast majority of them are ~$250 or less
  - jiqiren 7y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 It's ~7 years of hardware parts availability. Software is around 7-10 years.
    - JoBrad 7y ago
      Made me laugh for some reason. > Monster-branded Beats products are considered obsolete regardless of when they were purchased.
  - criddell 7y ago
    I didn't realize that. When I think about how many schools have bought racks of Chromebooks and how long they keep them in use I realize that there are lots of kids out there using insecure machines. And all of them have cameras and microphones. Yikes!
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >You should get ~7 years of update. Interesting. Thanks for the link. It appears that the hardware is older than I assumed (yet perfectly capable for browsing the web), which begs another question: I bought this thing brand new a few years ago. Should it be up to the consumer to ensure that there is life left for updates? I will be certain to now, going forward. But I can't expect less-savvy consumers to do the same. It looks like there are models on that list that will stop receiving updates in less than 2 years for sale as new computers on Amazon...
  - 8ytecoder 7y ago
    It's confusing to say it receives updates for 7 years when what they mean is 7 years from launch and not 7 years from sale (of a new device).
  - eitally 7y ago
    The current best practice is to check the manufacturing date of the chromebook you're buying, because the clock starts from when the first unit ships, not when the unit you're purchasing was made. For a part number that may have a 2 year manufacturing run, that can make a HUGE difference.
    - yabadabadoes 7y ago
      Given old inventory, you can lose more than 2 years. For example, the chromebit CS10 got a design award in 2015 and can still found on asus' website with a link for where to buy.. About 1 year of support remaining.
  - iteratorloopmap 7y ago
    Curiosly, which chromebook? You can install linux on some chromebooks.
    - aguyfromnb 7y ago
      Already plan on it! But to be honest, the physical hardware isn't that great, and of course the battery is mostly shot. The appeal was ChromeOS. Oh well.
umvi 7y ago
That happened to my Chromebook too, so I just installed GalliumOS on it, and it's been getting updates regularly for over a year now.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  The problem is even though we can do this, the average user doesn't. They get the unsupported message and they then throw the laptop in the bin and buy the same thing again. All electronics makers should be required by law to supply security updates and spare parts for devices for at least 10 years after the point of sale (not after the release date). Another thing I think would have a big impact is requiring all consumer electronics with a battery to have a user accessible method for replacing the battery. This used to be standard with all consumer electronics until very recently. These laws aren't just needed to protect the customers from corporate bullshit, they are critical for the survival of our environment. Designing electronics to last for 2-3 years is devastating.
  - pgeorgi 7y ago
    > All electronics makers should be required by law to supply security updates and spare parts for devices for at least 10 years after the point of sale (not after the release date). Let's start by requiring then that chip vendors sell and support their chips for at least that long? To stick to "10 years since introduction to market" which is a much easier requirement: 2009 was the year of AMD Phenom II (EOL 2012) and Intel Nehalem (EOL around 2012), and Qualcomm MSM7227 (couldn't find EOL date, but its direct successor came out 2011). How much stock should they keep around for the 10 extra years after 3 years on the market? (and what happens if they underprovision, will they be sued, or overprovision, throw it all in the bin? they can't sell it, or the 10 year clock starts again) > to have a user accessible method for replacing the battery. This used to be standard with all consumer electronics until very recently. ... and then vendors sold thinner and thinner devices, and customers preferred them over the others. The only way to get the same mileage out of a thinner device is to put batteries in every nook you can find, which doesn't work so well if the battery is supposed to be a single replaceable part. Also, there are two layers of plastic (chassis, battery container) that take away space that could be better used to store energy.
FactolSarin 7y ago
Microsoft products get supported basically forever. But they're not cool/trendy.
- andrepd 7y ago
  Windows 7 is due to stop being updated very soon, all the while the only alternative is to downgrade into Windows 10.j sure don't call that "basically forever".
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    Windows 7 is a 10 year old operating system and pretty much any hardware that ran it can also run Windows 10. Windows 10 was a free upgrade for Windows 7 users for years as well. This is wholly different from something like a phone or Chromebook that has no upgrade path at all when the OS support ends.
  - CamelCaseName 7y ago
    1. Windows 7 was supported with security updates for over 10 years (2009-2020). Second to only Windows XP (13 years) 2. They offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?) 3. Replacement cycles for consumer desktops/laptops are short relative to OS cycles, with some internet stats saying ~5 years on average. 4. You can still run Windows 7, you just won't get security updates. You're free to repair it on your own... If you can. 5. Just because you buy an OS doesn't mean you buy lifetime support and updates.
    - parent5446 7y ago
      >You're free to repair it on your own... If you can. You literally can't. It's proprietary software that you have a limited license to. This isn't like a deprecated Linux distro that you can always jump in and patch the security issues yourself. Hell I'm sure if these tractors ran on free software, there'd be a business out there competing against the manufacturer by fixing old tractor software if it meant pulling in consulting fees from the farmers. But they can't, because we live in a world where you don't own software, you lease it.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
I wonder if we can imagine a future where most software is simply released in a secure state, or it's not humanly possible to design sufficiently-advanced software that is anything but a teetering stack of security holes just waiting to be discovered.
- clarry 7y ago
  I think it's possible to make fairly secure software but it's a massive change from the way software is put together today. Nobody really wants to pay for that. Even stuff like OS research (which is what we need if we want a proper security model and a system not written in a horribly unsafe language) is virtually dead because the second you bring up some new experimental system, geeks are going to gang up against you with "what about my legacy proprietary applications, and what about drivers! this is worthless! everyone should just use linux!"

ProZsolt 7y ago

You should get ~7 years of update. Here you can check: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en I think it should be more, but it's on par with MacBooks

boredishBoi 7y ago
Actually MacBooks get 6/7 years from when Apple stops selling them. In contrast, the timer starts as soon as the first Chromebook with that cpu is released. It was a nasty surprise when I found that out
- choward 7y ago
  That is terrible. So they'll never create a device that is good enough that they'll sell for for 6 years unless they sell something they don't support.
  - pgeorgi 7y ago
    Or extend the support: https://9to5google.com/2019/11/05/google-chromebooks-extended-software-support/ https://9to5google.com/2019/11/05/google-chromebooks-extende... Other than that, few vendors sell 6 year old computers. Since Apple is often put up as model company here: 2013 had the iPhone 5s which was sold until early 2016, and the end-2013 MacBook Pro (based on Haswell) which was replaced by its successor in 2014 (based on Haswell-Refresh).
  - daemin 7y ago
    I think the point was that the product was so minimal and cheap that you would throw it away and get a new one like a phone.
  - kulahan 7y ago
    Correct. That's why the vast majority of them are ~$250 or less
- jiqiren 7y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 It's ~7 years of hardware parts availability. Software is around 7-10 years.
  - JoBrad 7y ago
    Made me laugh for some reason. > Monster-branded Beats products are considered obsolete regardless of when they were purchased.
- criddell 7y ago
  I didn't realize that. When I think about how many schools have bought racks of Chromebooks and how long they keep them in use I realize that there are lots of kids out there using insecure machines. And all of them have cameras and microphones. Yikes!
aguyfromnb 7y ago
>You should get ~7 years of update. Interesting. Thanks for the link. It appears that the hardware is older than I assumed (yet perfectly capable for browsing the web), which begs another question: I bought this thing brand new a few years ago. Should it be up to the consumer to ensure that there is life left for updates? I will be certain to now, going forward. But I can't expect less-savvy consumers to do the same. It looks like there are models on that list that will stop receiving updates in less than 2 years for sale as new computers on Amazon...
- 8ytecoder 7y ago
  It's confusing to say it receives updates for 7 years when what they mean is 7 years from launch and not 7 years from sale (of a new device).
- eitally 7y ago
  The current best practice is to check the manufacturing date of the chromebook you're buying, because the clock starts from when the first unit ships, not when the unit you're purchasing was made. For a part number that may have a 2 year manufacturing run, that can make a HUGE difference.
  - yabadabadoes 7y ago
    Given old inventory, you can lose more than 2 years. For example, the chromebit CS10 got a design award in 2015 and can still found on asus' website with a link for where to buy.. About 1 year of support remaining.
- iteratorloopmap 7y ago
  Curiosly, which chromebook? You can install linux on some chromebooks.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    Already plan on it! But to be honest, the physical hardware isn't that great, and of course the battery is mostly shot. The appeal was ChromeOS. Oh well.

umvi 7y ago

That happened to my Chromebook too, so I just installed GalliumOS on it, and it's been getting updates regularly for over a year now.

baroffoos 7y ago
The problem is even though we can do this, the average user doesn't. They get the unsupported message and they then throw the laptop in the bin and buy the same thing again. All electronics makers should be required by law to supply security updates and spare parts for devices for at least 10 years after the point of sale (not after the release date). Another thing I think would have a big impact is requiring all consumer electronics with a battery to have a user accessible method for replacing the battery. This used to be standard with all consumer electronics until very recently. These laws aren't just needed to protect the customers from corporate bullshit, they are critical for the survival of our environment. Designing electronics to last for 2-3 years is devastating.
- pgeorgi 7y ago
  > All electronics makers should be required by law to supply security updates and spare parts for devices for at least 10 years after the point of sale (not after the release date). Let's start by requiring then that chip vendors sell and support their chips for at least that long? To stick to "10 years since introduction to market" which is a much easier requirement: 2009 was the year of AMD Phenom II (EOL 2012) and Intel Nehalem (EOL around 2012), and Qualcomm MSM7227 (couldn't find EOL date, but its direct successor came out 2011). How much stock should they keep around for the 10 extra years after 3 years on the market? (and what happens if they underprovision, will they be sued, or overprovision, throw it all in the bin? they can't sell it, or the 10 year clock starts again) > to have a user accessible method for replacing the battery. This used to be standard with all consumer electronics until very recently. ... and then vendors sold thinner and thinner devices, and customers preferred them over the others. The only way to get the same mileage out of a thinner device is to put batteries in every nook you can find, which doesn't work so well if the battery is supposed to be a single replaceable part. Also, there are two layers of plastic (chassis, battery container) that take away space that could be better used to store energy.

FactolSarin 7y ago

Microsoft products get supported basically forever. But they're not cool/trendy.

andrepd 7y ago
Windows 7 is due to stop being updated very soon, all the while the only alternative is to downgrade into Windows 10.j sure don't call that "basically forever".
- mdorazio 7y ago
  Windows 7 is a 10 year old operating system and pretty much any hardware that ran it can also run Windows 10. Windows 10 was a free upgrade for Windows 7 users for years as well. This is wholly different from something like a phone or Chromebook that has no upgrade path at all when the OS support ends.
- CamelCaseName 7y ago
  1. Windows 7 was supported with security updates for over 10 years (2009-2020). Second to only Windows XP (13 years) 2. They offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?) 3. Replacement cycles for consumer desktops/laptops are short relative to OS cycles, with some internet stats saying ~5 years on average. 4. You can still run Windows 7, you just won't get security updates. You're free to repair it on your own... If you can. 5. Just because you buy an OS doesn't mean you buy lifetime support and updates.
  - parent5446 7y ago
    >You're free to repair it on your own... If you can. You literally can't. It's proprietary software that you have a limited license to. This isn't like a deprecated Linux distro that you can always jump in and patch the security issues yourself. Hell I'm sure if these tractors ran on free software, there'd be a business out there competing against the manufacturer by fixing old tractor software if it meant pulling in consulting fees from the farmers. But they can't, because we live in a world where you don't own software, you lease it.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

I wonder if we can imagine a future where most software is simply released in a secure state, or it's not humanly possible to design sufficiently-advanced software that is anything but a teetering stack of security holes just waiting to be discovered.

clarry 7y ago
I think it's possible to make fairly secure software but it's a massive change from the way software is put together today. Nobody really wants to pay for that. Even stuff like OS research (which is what we need if we want a proper security model and a system not written in a horribly unsafe language) is virtually dead because the second you bring up some new experimental system, geeks are going to gang up against you with "what about my legacy proprietary applications, and what about drivers! this is worthless! everyone should just use linux!"