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Tuv sees black for Tesla: Cybertruck would not get approval in Europe
- vasco 7y agoThere's a clip of Elon driving one in public roads and the truck is so large that while performing a left turn it bumps over a cone in the center lane. It's really a massive car, just crazy to picture it in a regular road in most European cities. The video: https://mobile.twitter.com/langejanne/status/1203775312707895299 https://mobile.twitter.com/langejanne/status/120377531270789...
- sschueller 7y ago5.88m, longer than a Chevi suburban or a Ford excursion.
- kayoone 7y ago> Because passive safety and pedestrian protection are very important in Germany. The body must therefore be designed in such a way that it deliberately deforms in an accident and absorbs the energy of the impact in order to minimize injuries. This is exactly what I was wondering about the minute I saw the Cybertruck presentation. In the event of a crash, the stiffness would be horrible for people in or outside of the vehicle.
- jcims 7y agoTeslas to date have had some of the best collision performance of any vehicle ever built. This is partially due to the characteristics of EV’s, but it’s also the result of good engineering combined with the deliberate prioritization of vehicle safety. It’s entirely possible Tesla will throw that all away with Cybertruck, but is that likely?
- chodeboy 7y agoFor those inside as well. The reason most car companies don't use cold rolled steel is not because they are cash grabs but because if there was no deformation in the car all energy will be directly transferred to the occupants. I am sure that tesla has something in their back pocket for this obvious flaw. Also I doubt the cybertruck will come to Europe. Certainly not in its current form.
- radres 7y agoThat is also bad for people inside
- raverbashing 7y agoThere was recently an accident in Berlin involving several pedestrians which brought some of those issues into light
- accurrent 7y agoWonder how firefighters/paramedics would try to extricate casualties from a cyber-truck in the event of an emergency. Usually the standard practice involves tearing the vehicle down.
- LifeLiverTransp 7y agoWe have some communities who use the swedish method.. Two chains,and basically tear the car open- the standard method is stil to use hydrolic shears and tears.
- dharmab 7y agoVehicles with gull-wing doors have doors that automatically detach after a rollover crash since they cannot be opened if the vehicle is upside down. A similar emergency release could be used?
- et2o 7y agoThis baseless speculation is rather silly until it’s closer to actual production. We have no idea how it will do in crash testing. It’s not hard to imagine they’ve taken engineering steps to help with this. Tesla has an excellent record in crash testing with the Model S, X, and 3; in my opinion they deserve some benefit of the doubt.
- chris_engel 7y agoA for-profit company never deserves some benefit of doubt. Thats why we have and need all those regulations.
- manojlds 7y agoWe are not talking about them circumventing the regulations. We are talking about them satisfying them.
- kjksf 7y agoThe argument is not that we should trust Tesla to self-certify. The argument is that they have shipped 3 cars in Europe. All their cars got among the best, if not the best, crash test ratings by every government and non-profit agency that tested their cars. They deserve benefit of the doubt because they've demonstrated several times that they know what they're doing. A can't say the same about randos speculating how Tesla will fail to certify their 5th or 6th car in Europe (after Model Y and possibly Roadster and Semi). Being a TUV expert doesn't really make up for the fact that the guy is commenting based on a video of an early prototype. Not to mention that people seem to arguing that Cybertruck is not safe... for other cars. Hummer was sold in Europe. Tell me again how stupidly large and heavy cars can't possibly be certified for European sales.
- foepys 7y agoThe Hummer is classified as a small truck in Europe (>3.5t and <=7.5t). You need a special C1 driver's license for that which costs a few hundred euros and you need to be recertified every few years. It's highly unlikely that Tesla will sell it in Europe under those circumstances. Also, in the EU, no car manufacturer self-certifies. In Germany for example it's the Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt (similar to the American DOT) that certifies vehicles to be street-legal.
- krilly 7y agoIs this article computer translated from the German source? It seems like it's barely even been proof read.
- flopp 7y agoThe article seems to be a "translation" of https://www.n-tv.de/auto/Cybertruck-bekaeme-in-Europa-keine-Zulassung-article21457784.html https://www.n-tv.de/auto/Cybertruck-bekaeme-in-Europa-keine-...
- yorwba 7y agoThat explains the strange usage of "sees black": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/schwarzsehen https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/schwarzsehen
- anotheryou 7y agoWell if the outer layer does not deform that's not generally bad, no? It could still crumple behind that and the structure could move like scales when hit on the edges. I'd guess it depends a lot on whats underneath, after all it's not an exo-sceleton (or is it?). edit: thanks for the replies. I somehow thought if you get hit as a pedestrian it's super bad anyways... didn't know the crumple zone does much for you there.
- ThePhysicist 7y agoIt’s relatively easy to make a car exterior that won’t crumple in an accident, the reason cars don’t have that is that the inelastic deformation of the car structure absorbs quite a lot of energy during an impact, which would otherwise be transferred to the vehicle in form of kinetic energy. You might say a little energy difference is not important but for a passenger or a pedestrian / cyclist hit by the car it can be the difference between suffering light bruises and dying from the impact. When I saw Tesla’s design with the ultra hard steel and sharp edges I immediately thought this thing is a large danger to other people on the street, especially cyclists and pedestrians.
- yreg 7y ago>if the outer layer does not deform that's not generally bad, no? it is generally very bad for the person who gets hit by the car
- henkslaaf 7y agoIt's also bad for people in the car.
- kinghajj 7y agoDoes it make much difference if a car can crumple or not when it's hitting a sack of flesh? I don't think my skin and bones are going to stand up well in either scenario.
- zwaps 7y agoHonestly, have you seen a rigid car hitting a crumply car going full force? In a situation where maybe both would have survived otherwise, now at least one party is goo. It's a Prisoner's Dilemma. If everyone drives fat, rigid SUVs, I gotta do to. That's why there is a law
- cygned 7y agoI am wondering how you get out of it in case of an accident. I’d expect Tesla to take precautions, but at this point in time it seems like people could get seriously trapped in there.
- _trampeltier 7y agoThis car is of course not build for europe or asia. Here are also almost no large pickups like Dodge Ram or the F150. A friend had for a short time such a car in switzerland. It was fun, but just to large for any public parking and such. But yeah the european companys don't even have small electric cars, so they just complain about everything.
- foepys 7y ago> But yeah the european companys don't even have small electric cars, so they just complain about everything. I don't know where you got this idea. Renault makes the Twizy and the ZOE, both small electric cars. BMW makes the i3.
- solarkraft 7y agoWhile the i3 is pretty much discontinued, BMW has more EV plans for the future. The Nissan leaf and Hyundai Ioniq also sell pretty well in Europe. The automotive press is traditionally very biased against electric vehicles, which might have contributed to this article.
- grosun 7y agoUntrue re. European electric cars. The Renault Zoe is increasingly common here in the UK, the electric Fiat 500 has been around for a while now, VW have an extensive range, BMW have at least a couple I'm aware of. A significant number of the suggested cars in this list are made by European manufacturers https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/electric-cars/86169/best-electric-cars-on-sale https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/electric-cars/86169/...
- simion314 7y agoFYI Renault has electric cars.
- yreg 7y agoThere is no way this vehicle will get approved in Europe. I don't think the design is even salvageable. The folded stainless steel unibody goes fundamentally against our expectation of both passenger and pedestrian safety. Since virtually no one drives gigantic american-style pickups in EU, it makes no sense for Tesla to develop a separate alternative EU-regulation-compatible version based on totally different manufacturing design. I think it's pretty dishonest that Tesla asks for deposits for Cybertruck over here, since I believe they don't plan to ever sell them to us. And I'm saying that as a person who likes Tesla, Inc. very much.
- geolgau 7y ago> Since virtually no one drives gigantic american-style pickups in EU Come to Romania. You'd be surprised.
- quaquaqua1 7y agoBased Romanians speaking up about trucks and also being EU
- poloniculmov 7y agoWe do have lots of SUVs, but they're not really that big. It's not like you can see F250s everywhere.
- Roritharr 7y agoThanks to the EU Laws this is not really true. You can buy and drive a street legal two-seater Go-Karts since 2002... There's a lot of loopholes they can use to get this approved, if they should need them.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> Since virtually no one drives gigantic american-style pickups in EU Farmers and other people who work in land industries use them all over the world. Have you been out of a city much? What do you think they use instead? The brands just tend to be Japanese outside the US.
- grecy 7y agoGiven that Tesla have designed and currently sell the three safest vehicles ever produced in the history of the world, I think it's safe to say they thought a little bit about crash safety on the Cybertruck. In fact, I'm willing to bet they thought about it a hell of a lot more than people speculating who were not involved in the design process. let's wait and see what happens, rather than through out wild speculation. (but then, the internet would be pointless I guess) EDIT: See my reply further down with links to all the safety records Tesla have set. Also, my point still stands. It's almost a certainty Tesla have spent many millions of dollars and thousands and thousands of design hours on the safety of the Cybertruck, while literally everyone commenting on it (including this expert from Europe) has spent zero.
- pergadad 7y agoThe article is about an interview with one of the most senior road safety experts in Europe, saying that this does not conform to European approaches to car safety which aim not to protect the car from damage but rather to reduce harm on humans from the crash impact - both those within the car as well as potential pedestrians/cyclists/other drivers/... Its rather obvious that a car that has a rigid metal structure does not allow many avenues to channel the force of impact - so woe the pedestrian that's hit by a Cybertruck. No way European regulators - which actually certify and regulate rather than rubber-stamp manufacturers' own views - can let it go through in its current shape and form.
- grecy 7y agoI agree the guy is an expert - but let's be perfectly honest. He has never seen, driven or tested one, and has spent zero seconds reviewing and understanding the design. He is purely speculating like everyone else on the internet. Obviously he knows what he's talking about when it comes to safety and vehicles. I think it's safe to say he knows very, very little about the Cybertruck yet. This is 100% pure speculation, like almost everything about the Cybertruck on the internet so far.
- quaquaqua1 7y agoI'm sure the senior road safety experts in Europe are completely unbiased when they are calling for an inspection of this truck publically based on visual appearance alone
- Tepix 7y agoI wonder when we will see laws for pedestrian safety in the US. What are the arguments against such a law?
- Gwypaas 7y agoNo need for them when jaywalking is a crime. Just blame the pedestrians and call it social darwinism.
- rikkipitt 7y agoSounds like my father talking about his Land Rover series IIA: "The crumple zones are cunningly built into the other car.".
- zwaps 7y agoDisgusting person your father. In Berlin, just a few weeks ago a whole bunch of people died because the driver of a huge SUV had a seizure and the SUV made crumple zones out of cars and people.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> While the launch of the electric pickup proudly demonstrated that even a strong blow with the sledgehammer does not leave a dent on the car door, this would pose a security risk in Germany. A security risk?
- detaro 7y agoI suspect mistranslation from the German "Sicherheit", which can be translated as "safety" and "security". The translation generally seems pretty bad.
- tastroder 7y agoYeah, all mentions of "Sicherheit" in the linked source (which is just a mainstream news channel transcribing some car magazine interview btw) would best be translated with safety, rather than security.
- Giorgi 7y agotitle should read: TUV seeks so somehow justify its existence
- megous 7y agoLooks like a SVBIED to me. Maybe Musk got inspiration from ISIS. Do an image search for "svbied".
- the-dude 7y agoJust a couple of minutes ago, this article was on #2, now on #19. It must have been flagged or triggered something.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- webpraktikos 7y agoI think the plan is to release cybertruck at the same time when fully-autonomous driving is predicted to be ready. In that scenario, it would be significantly less likely to crash and cybertruck wound be safer car than the ones with different materials, but dumber. The key to safety is human error prevention, not materials. It’s like preventing illness vs. treating the symptoms. On the other side, It’s very questionable when the fully-autonomous driving will be ready.
- ashildr 7y agoSo the article basically says that it will be interesting to see what Tesla comes up with to give this car passive safety for passengers and pedestrians. Given the fact that the rest of Teslas fleet has excellent ratings in that regard Ì‘m quite sure that this concept is not exactly new for their engineers. I‘m again not impressed by TÜV.