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I agree. I've updated the first point. A lot of this is based on our ever changing knowledge of our history with new discoveries current understanding seems to

I agree. I've updated the first point. A lot of this is based on our ever changing knowledge of our history with new discoveries current understanding seems to change almost every day. It's not so much about them being closely related. Rather it's the idea that a mind so distant from my own, that lived a life so alien from my own drew that. I find that deeply fascinating. The fact that they are lost to us just makes them seem even more interesting, the fact that we can never really know, we can never really understand why they drew that, why they took the time out of their harsh and unforgiving lives to draw some lines on a wall that one day, a different species would ponder over.

blotter_paper 7y ago
> It's not so much about them being closely related. Rather it's the idea that a mind so distant from my own, that lived a life so alien from my own drew that. I think I'm using the former as a proxy for the latter. If Neanderthals were more distantly related then I would imagine their minds to be more distant from my own. If less, then less. I imagine that my mind is much closer to that of a chimpanzee than that of an octopus, so I would be less amazed by similar behavior in the former than the latter. This isn't to say that I find no amazement in what little we know of Neanderthal culture, just that it's nowhere near the amazement I would find in seeing a truly alien culture. They're on the same continuum, but not at the same point on that continuum.
hutzlibu 7y ago
"It's not so much about them being closely related. Rather it's the idea that a mind so distant from my own, that lived a life so alien from my own drew that. I find that deeply fascinating." Well, genetically they were not much different, close enough for interbreeding. But their mind ... and culture was probably very alien to us.
- danieltillett 7y ago
  There is enough Neanderthal DNA in the modern non-sub-Saharan human population (we all have a few percent Neanderthal DNA, but that few percent is different in each of us) that some people probably think like Neanderthals.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    I was more talking about the different mindset ... coming from a very different culture. My point was actually that the DNA difference probably does not lead to a very different thinking. But different culture does.
    - danieltillett 7y ago
      We certainly know that different DNA leads to different thinking or else we would think like a chimpanzee. The question is does Neanderthal thinking live on in our modern culture. I have no idea, but it is a testable hypothesis.
      - hutzlibu 7y ago
        Surely does different DNA leads to different thinking. But when interbreeding is possible, differences might not be great ... much smaller than the cultural differences
        danieltillett 7y ago
        That is a hypothesis, not something we know. Having three children of my own all very different to each other in thinking makes me doubt culture has much influence on how people think.
patcon 7y ago
I am sad for us all that they're not around. I can't even imagine the impact they would have had on the evolution of our culture and religions if they'd stuck around. The "winning" religions hinge on humans having dominion over all other animals in clear-cut ways. Might belief systems like Buddhism or Jainism be more hegemonic if there had been a bridge species to tell us we're not so clearly special. And if they'd stuck around, would we still be having such a nail-biting time threading the needle on this extinction event that's predicated on our dominant cultures seeing nature as "other.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tim333 7y ago
  I wonder if we could bring them back to some extent. Apparently they interbred with Homo Sapiens so there are many of their genes amongst our DNA.
- CryptoBanker 7y ago
  We humans are prone to wiping out sects of our own species. You think we would have allowed another, highly competitive, species to coexist with us for that long?

blotter_paper 7y ago

> It's not so much about them being closely related. Rather it's the idea that a mind so distant from my own, that lived a life so alien from my own drew that. I think I'm using the former as a proxy for the latter. If Neanderthals were more distantly related then I would imagine their minds to be more distant from my own. If less, then less. I imagine that my mind is much closer to that of a chimpanzee than that of an octopus, so I would be less amazed by similar behavior in the former than the latter. This isn't to say that I find no amazement in what little we know of Neanderthal culture, just that it's nowhere near the amazement I would find in seeing a truly alien culture. They're on the same continuum, but not at the same point on that continuum.

hutzlibu 7y ago

"It's not so much about them being closely related. Rather it's the idea that a mind so distant from my own, that lived a life so alien from my own drew that. I find that deeply fascinating." Well, genetically they were not much different, close enough for interbreeding. But their mind ... and culture was probably very alien to us.

danieltillett 7y ago
There is enough Neanderthal DNA in the modern non-sub-Saharan human population (we all have a few percent Neanderthal DNA, but that few percent is different in each of us) that some people probably think like Neanderthals.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  I was more talking about the different mindset ... coming from a very different culture. My point was actually that the DNA difference probably does not lead to a very different thinking. But different culture does.
  - danieltillett 7y ago
    We certainly know that different DNA leads to different thinking or else we would think like a chimpanzee. The question is does Neanderthal thinking live on in our modern culture. I have no idea, but it is a testable hypothesis.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      Surely does different DNA leads to different thinking. But when interbreeding is possible, differences might not be great ... much smaller than the cultural differences
      - danieltillett 7y ago
        That is a hypothesis, not something we know. Having three children of my own all very different to each other in thinking makes me doubt culture has much influence on how people think.

patcon 7y ago

I am sad for us all that they're not around. I can't even imagine the impact they would have had on the evolution of our culture and religions if they'd stuck around. The "winning" religions hinge on humans having dominion over all other animals in clear-cut ways. Might belief systems like Buddhism or Jainism be more hegemonic if there had been a bridge species to tell us we're not so clearly special. And if they'd stuck around, would we still be having such a nail-biting time threading the needle on this extinction event that's predicated on our dominant cultures seeing nature as "other.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tim333 7y ago
I wonder if we could bring them back to some extent. Apparently they interbred with Homo Sapiens so there are many of their genes amongst our DNA.
CryptoBanker 7y ago
We humans are prone to wiping out sects of our own species. You think we would have allowed another, highly competitive, species to coexist with us for that long?