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White House Veterans Helped Gulf Monarchy Build Secret Surveillance Unit

506 points by mzs 7y ago

the-dude 7y ago
Renders as white page for me. Can not read.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  It's working for me in Chrome with uBlock on. the tldr is that Americans (former officials, former NSA hackers) built an offensive hacking unit for the UAE that is now targeting other governments and activists in the region. Women's rights activists in Saudi Arabia and journalists and such.
  - stevenwoo 7y ago
    It sounds like the Americans eventually did all the work except the cinematic final return key press to start execution of a program for many of the operations as they could not train enough UAE employees to do the work.
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  Try enabling JavaScript.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  This archived copy will render without JavaScript: http://archive.is/btST8 http://archive.is/btST8
- landcoctos 7y ago
  Same here. For some reason cannot read with Javascript and reader mode doesn't appear as an option for this page. What's the reason?
gnatman 7y ago
I listened to an episode of Darknet Diaries[1] where they interview one of the contractors that worked on this project. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/
- cbron 7y ago
  +1, that was a great episode. The iOS hack story is especially crazy.
- saganus 7y ago
  Interesting! Is there an RSS link to use with a podcast app? I couldn't find one from my phone.
  - dr_kiszonka 7y ago
    https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/ https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/
  - giarc 7y ago
    https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    RSS: https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries Platform specific links: https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/ https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/
- nullz3r0 7y ago
  this was a really good episode.
- bobbyd3 7y ago
  +1 for Darknet Diaries. Very entertaining and informative podcast!
api 7y ago
Someone posted this and got downvoted to the point of 'dead'. I smell bots and/or troll farmers, so I'm reposting: -- I listened to an episode of Darknet Diaries[1] where they interview one of the contractors that worked on this project. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > Someone posted this and got downvoted to the point of 'dead'. I smell bots and/or troll farmers I wonder how pervasive this is on HN, since you need a minimum of 500 karma before you can downvote someone. I have to admit though, over the past year HN has started to feel more like reddit (this is not my first account, I have been here for many years). I don't think it's because of poor moderation, I think it's just a result of HN becoming popular enough that it's attracting a larger audience.
  - aphextim 7y ago
    >I think it's just a result of HN becoming popular enough that it's attracting a larger audience. This could be true, however for me and what I think may be a larger issue is that people are getting tired of using Reddit and other sites altogether and there are few alternatives that offer good discussions. The reason Reddit became popular when it started I feel was for the niche subreddits and information and discussions on Reddit that you wouldn't find elsewhere on the web. Now Reddit censors anything outside of the hive-mind when it comes to common popular subreddits. Sure there are good subreddits with discussions and information still out there but unless you know where to look, the popular subreddits feel more like advertising designed to look like someone submitted something. I remember when people migrated from Digg 2.0 and Slashdot over to Reddit sometime around 2005. It appears now people have been increasingly jumping ship from Reddit to other platforms for the niche information while still using Reddit for the meme's and cat videos.
  - dang 7y ago
    "HN is turning into Reddit" was a cliché 10 years ago. Even the responses were clichés 10 years ago. I think we can say what Voltaire said when told that coffee is a slow poison: "It must be very slow." [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=turning%20%22into%20reddit%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=66057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=66057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=223184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=223184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=225134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=225134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=247582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=247582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=278785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=278785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=289254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=289254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=576431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=576431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1495742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1495742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523969 It would be fun to find the first appearance of this on HN. Here's one from when HN was still called Startup News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852. So HN was turning into Reddit before it was HN. (The name Hacker News came in Aug 2007: https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html) [1] Actually it was Fontenelle, not Voltaire, but I guess all 18th century French jokes eventually go to Voltaire.
zbyte64 7y ago
The USA built counterterroism surveillance tools for the UAE monarchy and in 2016 Emirati firm DarkMatter takes over. Yikes.
AndrewBissell 7y ago
> Drawn to the UAE with the promise of combating terrorism, dozens of American intelligence contractors cycled in and out of a secret hacking unit over the course of a decade. As time went on, the mission became less focused on preventing violent attacks than on targeting the country’s political enemies. It's time for us to stop pretending that the purpose of mass surveillance programs is to prevent one-off terrorist attacks. They exist to surveil and quash political dissidents.
- c22 7y ago
  It seems like a natural progression. Obviously you want to stop terrorist attacks before they happen, but now you're not targeting terrorists, you're targeting political dissidents who have a plan to become terrorists. The earlier in the planning stages you can catch them the better. Soon enough you're keeping an eye on them before they've made any plans...
  - naringas 7y ago
    ...and then get them before they choose to dissent
    - cr0sh 7y ago
      ...or encourage them to dissent. /when you don't have any dissent, manufacture it
      - mirimir 7y ago
        The US has done that with domestic Muslim terrorists. Agents even setup links for obtaining weapons and explosives.
- rexgallorum2 7y ago
  Correct. Surveillance has historically had three chief purposes. - taxation, the expropriation of property or surplus value - manpower, conscription - maintaining order and control, eliminating threats, etc. You can go all the way back to the dawn of agriculture and the rise of the first grain-based proto-states. The fundamentals remain much the same.
brobdingnagians 7y ago
Reminds me of the Mitchell & Webb Look sketch where it goes like this: > Second Nazi: Have you noticed that our caps actually have little pictures of skulls on them? > Hans: I don't... er- > Second Nazi: Hans... are we the baddies? People going around helping monarchies (and/or democracies) to implement mass surveillance on journalists and human rights activists, with projects' named things like DREAD, should start asking themselves that question...
- tux1968 7y ago
  What is more concerning is that in popular culture right now many people are loudly calling for government control of news, to stamp out so called fake news. That can only lead to what amounts to a government Ministry of Truth, and support for surveillance of all journalists and activists. So while those working on such projects need to ask themselves some serious questions, the rest of us should be loudly speaking out against the rising support of censorship and authoritarianism in general.
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    Honestly what we need is the re-instatement of the Fairness Doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine Between that and maybe some kind of regulation of websites or other internet media that purport to be "news" but are something else (ie - make it a requirement that such sites conspicuously show a "for entertainment purposes only" or "satire" or similar banner). Perhaps with penalties for those who don't comply. Of course, there's a fine line to the above; simple bloggers or even HN could potentially overstep it. There's also the issue of false accusations... I doubt, though, that any of these things will likely occur.
vowelless 7y ago
Unfortunately, not a surprise at all. Recall that Clarke was one of the guys who OKed the return of the bin Laden family on 9/11 [edit: 1]. Clarke had deep connections to royals and rich elites like the bin Ladens See how they targeted Qatari individuals including Al Thani himself. They say the incentive was the fight against Al Qaeda. But I am skeptical. This is about the rivalry between the Qatari and other Khaleeji royals (recall that Qatar was kicked out of GCC recently for aligning with rival ideologies like Muslim Brotherhood). Also interesting to note is that until very recently, America’s Mid East command was in Qatar; so America was playing both sides of that conflict (as usual). I am, of course, assuming that Good Harbor / DREAD have deep federal ties. Not sure about DarkMatter — that seems Emirati. ———- Edits: [1] the commenter below corrected me. It was on 13th of September. But my understanding is that there was still an exception made for the Saudis (see the private aircraft ban extending beyond the time when Saudis were being shuttled around)
- strictnein 7y ago
  That Bin Laden family thing is false by the way: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ They left the country shortly after 9/11 for the simple reason that they thought they'd be killed if people realized who they were. Most were just kids in high school and college.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    Also: why wouldn't you OK the return of the Bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia? Al Qaeda wasn't a family business. UBL was one of like 40 siblings.
    - vowelless 7y ago
      That’s a fair point. And no one should punish family members for what someone in their family did. And it is entirely possible that they were questioned on the few days that they did remain in the US. So why was Clark even needed to “approve” these flights, one might wonder. I was just trying to say that Clark has been connected with rich Gulf monarchs and elites for a long time.
readhn 7y ago
How about another fun one? : Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) program to arm and finance the jihadists, in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989, prior to and during the military intervention by the USSR in support of its client, the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. The program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups that were favored by the regime of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq in neighboring Pakistan, rather than other, less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting the Marxist-oriented Democratic Republic of Afghanistan regime since before the Soviet intervention.[1] Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken;[2] funding officially began with $695,000 in 1979,[3][4] was increased dramatically to $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.[1][5][6] Funding continued after 1989 as the mujahideen battled the forces of Mohammad Najibullah's PDPA during the civil war in Afghanistan (1989–1992).[7]
- mzs 7y ago
  Huh? Unlike the article I submitted, this has nothing to do with cyber, computers, hackers, tech… so I fail to see why you commented about it here o_O Instead here's "another fun one" where OSINT computer DBs were searched* to reveal how one country made an offer to a prisoner to assassinate someone in another country. * https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/12/06/identifying-the-berlin-bicycle-assassin-russias-murder-franchise-part-2/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/12/06/ide...
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  Weird... it is almost as if the Russians invaded Afghanistan and then we used it as an opportunity to shove a spear right in their stomach. But yeah, I forgot, United States Government (USG) = bad. Rest of world = good. NPC re-programming complete.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. Last thing we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mjfl 7y ago
> The secret unit Clarke helped create had an ominous acronym: DREAD, short for Development Research Exploitation and Analysis Department. “Are we the baddies?”
- naringas 7y ago
  classic mitchell and webb sketch https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU
a0zU 7y ago
How did nobody realize that DREAD is an incredibly ominous acronym early on in this project?
- smt88 7y ago
  That was the point... this kind of sinister backcronym is common in military and intelligence.
  - int_19h 7y ago
    And law enforcement, at least in US. Fun fact: the guy who came up with "SWAT" originally intended it to mean Special Weapons Attack Team. His supervisor told him to come up with something that didn't sound quite so aggressive, and thus it became Special Weapons And Tactics.
- mirimir 7y ago
  I'm betting on someone liking Judge Dread.
  - lordgrenville 7y ago
    It's spelled Judge Dredd so I don't think so.
Havoc 7y ago
If the money is good there will always be people willing to look away
secfirstmd 7y ago
Dodgy Middle East money and Western intelligence people wanting to take it goes further than just cyber security. There are often times when Middle Eastern money competes to flow into and lock up various prestigious private (mostly human) intelligence companies. Ditto with close protection. Essentially trying to keep them on side during various legal and illegal battles. Its not my area but I also heard recently the same thing happens quite a lot with the big marketing firms.
- secretasiandan 7y ago
  This article claims it happens with lawyers too Mr. Pottinger later said that the scenario would have involved him representing a victim, settling a case and then representing the victim’s alleged abuser. He said it was within legal boundaries. (He also said he had meant to type “No client lawsuit is actually involved.”) Such legal arrangements are not unheard-of. Lawyers representing a former Fox News producer who had accused Bill O’Reilly of sexual harassment reached a settlement in which her lawyers agreed to work for Mr. O’Reilly after the dispute. But legal experts generally consider such setups to be unethical because they can create conflicts between the interests of the lawyers and their original clients. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/business/david-boies-pottinger-jeffrey-epstein-videos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/business/david-boies-pott...
  - secfirstmd 7y ago
    Thanks that's interesting, I didn't know that!
  - B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
    [repeat w/o scrollbar due to double spaces] """ Mr. Pottinger later said that the scenario would have involved him representing a victim, settling a case and then representing the victim’s alleged abuser. He said it was within legal boundaries. (He also said he had meant to type “No client lawsuit is actually involved.”) Such legal arrangements are not unheard-of. Lawyers representing a former Fox News producer who had accused Bill O’Reilly of sexual harassment reached a settlement in which her lawyers agreed to work for Mr. O’Reilly after the dispute. But legal experts generally consider such setups to be unethical because they can create conflicts between the interests of the lawyers and their original clients. """
chiefalchemist 7y ago
> "He said the plan was approved by the U.S. State Department and the National Security Agency, and that Good Harbor followed U.S. law." If you're cynical that sentence is frightening.
- ev0lv 7y ago
  Can you elaborate why?
onetimemanytime 7y ago
>>Utilizing his close relationship to the country’s rulers, forged through decades of experience as a senior U.S. decision-maker, Clarke won numerous security consulting contracts in the UAE. Let's collects lots of business cards so in a few years we can cash in our favors. There oughta be a law...
walrus01 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSRA_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSRA_Inc. One of the contractors in question. Now a part of General Dynamics.
walrus01 7y ago
In my personal opinion there is absolutely no way that "five eyes" nations should allow ex-intelligence-agency personnel, particularly from the NSA and related SIGINT entities (CSE, GCHQ, etc) to go work in the private sector for non democratic regimes. You want to go work for Denmark, or Germany? Sure, get the appropriate permit from the department of state. For the UAE, or Iran, or Myanmar? No. I don't care if the royal family running the UAE are supposedly our friends. Any person that is a citizen of a five eyes + partner nation, which goes to work for a project like this, should immediately find themselves the target of their country-of-citizenship's intelligence agencies.
- nexuist 7y ago
  > Any person that is a citizen of a five eyes + partner nation, which goes to work for a project like this, should immediately find themselves the target of their country-of-citizenship's intelligence agencies. Do you not believe this to already be the case?
- LocalTrust 7y ago
  Given the way the US oscillates between administrations with oppressive tendencies and administrations which are at best squeamish when they violate international human rights laws, to me this just sounds like a skunkworks project.
- Der_Einzige 7y ago
  Not to imply that Myanmar is a place where sigint entites should work, but since 2010 the country has dramatically improved and democratized and even has a (mostly) free press
  - walrus01 7y ago
    Right, except for that pesky ethnic cleansing problem
carokann 7y ago
Khasoggi (and a myriad of other political dissidents) was tracked with software obtained by Saudis from Israel (NSO) and butchered in a consulate. A year after it, Veterans are still allowed to co-op with these dudes? No lesson learned after all.

506 points by mzs 7y ago

the-dude 7y ago

Renders as white page for me. Can not read.

wavefunction 7y ago
It's working for me in Chrome with uBlock on. the tldr is that Americans (former officials, former NSA hackers) built an offensive hacking unit for the UAE that is now targeting other governments and activists in the region. Women's rights activists in Saudi Arabia and journalists and such.
- stevenwoo 7y ago
  It sounds like the Americans eventually did all the work except the cinematic final return key press to start execution of a program for many of the operations as they could not train enough UAE employees to do the work.
TurkishPoptart 7y ago
Try enabling JavaScript.
blotter_paper 7y ago
This archived copy will render without JavaScript: http://archive.is/btST8 http://archive.is/btST8
landcoctos 7y ago
Same here. For some reason cannot read with Javascript and reader mode doesn't appear as an option for this page. What's the reason?

gnatman 7y ago

I listened to an episode of Darknet Diaries[1] where they interview one of the contractors that worked on this project. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/

cbron 7y ago
+1, that was a great episode. The iOS hack story is especially crazy.
saganus 7y ago
Interesting! Is there an RSS link to use with a podcast app? I couldn't find one from my phone.
- dr_kiszonka 7y ago
  https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/ https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/
- giarc 7y ago
  https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  RSS: https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries https://feeds.megaphone.fm/darknetdiaries Platform specific links: https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/ https://darknetdiaries.com/subscribe/
nullz3r0 7y ago
this was a really good episode.
bobbyd3 7y ago
+1 for Darknet Diaries. Very entertaining and informative podcast!

api 7y ago

Someone posted this and got downvoted to the point of 'dead'. I smell bots and/or troll farmers, so I'm reposting: -- I listened to an episode of Darknet Diaries[1] where they interview one of the contractors that worked on this project. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
> Someone posted this and got downvoted to the point of 'dead'. I smell bots and/or troll farmers I wonder how pervasive this is on HN, since you need a minimum of 500 karma before you can downvote someone. I have to admit though, over the past year HN has started to feel more like reddit (this is not my first account, I have been here for many years). I don't think it's because of poor moderation, I think it's just a result of HN becoming popular enough that it's attracting a larger audience.
- aphextim 7y ago
  >I think it's just a result of HN becoming popular enough that it's attracting a larger audience. This could be true, however for me and what I think may be a larger issue is that people are getting tired of using Reddit and other sites altogether and there are few alternatives that offer good discussions. The reason Reddit became popular when it started I feel was for the niche subreddits and information and discussions on Reddit that you wouldn't find elsewhere on the web. Now Reddit censors anything outside of the hive-mind when it comes to common popular subreddits. Sure there are good subreddits with discussions and information still out there but unless you know where to look, the popular subreddits feel more like advertising designed to look like someone submitted something. I remember when people migrated from Digg 2.0 and Slashdot over to Reddit sometime around 2005. It appears now people have been increasingly jumping ship from Reddit to other platforms for the niche information while still using Reddit for the meme's and cat videos.
- dang 7y ago
  "HN is turning into Reddit" was a cliché 10 years ago. Even the responses were clichés 10 years ago. I think we can say what Voltaire said when told that coffee is a slow poison: "It must be very slow." [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=turning%20%22into%20reddit%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=66057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=66057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=223184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=223184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=225134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=225134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=247582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=247582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=278785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=278785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=289254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=289254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=576431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=576431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1495742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1495742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523969 It would be fun to find the first appearance of this on HN. Here's one from when HN was still called Startup News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852. So HN was turning into Reddit before it was HN. (The name Hacker News came in Aug 2007: https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html) [1] Actually it was Fontenelle, not Voltaire, but I guess all 18th century French jokes eventually go to Voltaire.

zbyte64 7y ago

The USA built counterterroism surveillance tools for the UAE monarchy and in 2016 Emirati firm DarkMatter takes over. Yikes.

AndrewBissell 7y ago

> Drawn to the UAE with the promise of combating terrorism, dozens of American intelligence contractors cycled in and out of a secret hacking unit over the course of a decade. As time went on, the mission became less focused on preventing violent attacks than on targeting the country’s political enemies. It's time for us to stop pretending that the purpose of mass surveillance programs is to prevent one-off terrorist attacks. They exist to surveil and quash political dissidents.

c22 7y ago
It seems like a natural progression. Obviously you want to stop terrorist attacks before they happen, but now you're not targeting terrorists, you're targeting political dissidents who have a plan to become terrorists. The earlier in the planning stages you can catch them the better. Soon enough you're keeping an eye on them before they've made any plans...
- naringas 7y ago
  ...and then get them before they choose to dissent
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    ...or encourage them to dissent. /when you don't have any dissent, manufacture it
    - mirimir 7y ago
      The US has done that with domestic Muslim terrorists. Agents even setup links for obtaining weapons and explosives.
rexgallorum2 7y ago
Correct. Surveillance has historically had three chief purposes. - taxation, the expropriation of property or surplus value - manpower, conscription - maintaining order and control, eliminating threats, etc. You can go all the way back to the dawn of agriculture and the rise of the first grain-based proto-states. The fundamentals remain much the same.

brobdingnagians 7y ago

Reminds me of the Mitchell & Webb Look sketch where it goes like this: > Second Nazi: Have you noticed that our caps actually have little pictures of skulls on them? > Hans: I don't... er- > Second Nazi: Hans... are we the baddies? People going around helping monarchies (and/or democracies) to implement mass surveillance on journalists and human rights activists, with projects' named things like DREAD, should start asking themselves that question...

tux1968 7y ago
What is more concerning is that in popular culture right now many people are loudly calling for government control of news, to stamp out so called fake news. That can only lead to what amounts to a government Ministry of Truth, and support for surveillance of all journalists and activists. So while those working on such projects need to ask themselves some serious questions, the rest of us should be loudly speaking out against the rising support of censorship and authoritarianism in general.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  Honestly what we need is the re-instatement of the Fairness Doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine Between that and maybe some kind of regulation of websites or other internet media that purport to be "news" but are something else (ie - make it a requirement that such sites conspicuously show a "for entertainment purposes only" or "satire" or similar banner). Perhaps with penalties for those who don't comply. Of course, there's a fine line to the above; simple bloggers or even HN could potentially overstep it. There's also the issue of false accusations... I doubt, though, that any of these things will likely occur.

vowelless 7y ago

Unfortunately, not a surprise at all. Recall that Clarke was one of the guys who OKed the return of the bin Laden family on 9/11 [edit: 1]. Clarke had deep connections to royals and rich elites like the bin Ladens See how they targeted Qatari individuals including Al Thani himself. They say the incentive was the fight against Al Qaeda. But I am skeptical. This is about the rivalry between the Qatari and other Khaleeji royals (recall that Qatar was kicked out of GCC recently for aligning with rival ideologies like Muslim Brotherhood). Also interesting to note is that until very recently, America’s Mid East command was in Qatar; so America was playing both sides of that conflict (as usual). I am, of course, assuming that Good Harbor / DREAD have deep federal ties. Not sure about DarkMatter — that seems Emirati. ———- Edits: [1] the commenter below corrected me. It was on 13th of September. But my understanding is that there was still an exception made for the Saudis (see the private aircraft ban extending beyond the time when Saudis were being shuttled around)

strictnein 7y ago
That Bin Laden family thing is false by the way: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ They left the country shortly after 9/11 for the simple reason that they thought they'd be killed if people realized who they were. Most were just kids in high school and college.
- tptacek 7y ago
  Also: why wouldn't you OK the return of the Bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia? Al Qaeda wasn't a family business. UBL was one of like 40 siblings.
  - vowelless 7y ago
    That’s a fair point. And no one should punish family members for what someone in their family did. And it is entirely possible that they were questioned on the few days that they did remain in the US. So why was Clark even needed to “approve” these flights, one might wonder. I was just trying to say that Clark has been connected with rich Gulf monarchs and elites for a long time.

readhn 7y ago

How about another fun one? : Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) program to arm and finance the jihadists, in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989, prior to and during the military intervention by the USSR in support of its client, the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. The program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups that were favored by the regime of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq in neighboring Pakistan, rather than other, less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting the Marxist-oriented Democratic Republic of Afghanistan regime since before the Soviet intervention.[1] Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken;[2] funding officially began with $695,000 in 1979,[3][4] was increased dramatically to $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.[1][5][6] Funding continued after 1989 as the mujahideen battled the forces of Mohammad Najibullah's PDPA during the civil war in Afghanistan (1989–1992).[7]

mzs 7y ago
Huh? Unlike the article I submitted, this has nothing to do with cyber, computers, hackers, tech… so I fail to see why you commented about it here o_O Instead here's "another fun one" where OSINT computer DBs were searched* to reveal how one country made an offer to a prisoner to assassinate someone in another country. * https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/12/06/identifying-the-berlin-bicycle-assassin-russias-murder-franchise-part-2/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/12/06/ide...
GhettoMaestro 7y ago
Weird... it is almost as if the Russians invaded Afghanistan and then we used it as an opportunity to shove a spear right in their stomach. But yeah, I forgot, United States Government (USG) = bad. Rest of world = good. NPC re-programming complete.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. Last thing we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mjfl 7y ago

> The secret unit Clarke helped create had an ominous acronym: DREAD, short for Development Research Exploitation and Analysis Department. “Are we the baddies?”

naringas 7y ago
classic mitchell and webb sketch https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU

a0zU 7y ago

How did nobody realize that DREAD is an incredibly ominous acronym early on in this project?

smt88 7y ago
That was the point... this kind of sinister backcronym is common in military and intelligence.
- int_19h 7y ago
  And law enforcement, at least in US. Fun fact: the guy who came up with "SWAT" originally intended it to mean Special Weapons Attack Team. His supervisor told him to come up with something that didn't sound quite so aggressive, and thus it became Special Weapons And Tactics.
mirimir 7y ago
I'm betting on someone liking Judge Dread.
- lordgrenville 7y ago
  It's spelled Judge Dredd so I don't think so.

Havoc 7y ago

If the money is good there will always be people willing to look away

secfirstmd 7y ago

Dodgy Middle East money and Western intelligence people wanting to take it goes further than just cyber security. There are often times when Middle Eastern money competes to flow into and lock up various prestigious private (mostly human) intelligence companies. Ditto with close protection. Essentially trying to keep them on side during various legal and illegal battles. Its not my area but I also heard recently the same thing happens quite a lot with the big marketing firms.

secretasiandan 7y ago
This article claims it happens with lawyers too Mr. Pottinger later said that the scenario would have involved him representing a victim, settling a case and then representing the victim’s alleged abuser. He said it was within legal boundaries. (He also said he had meant to type “No client lawsuit is actually involved.”) Such legal arrangements are not unheard-of. Lawyers representing a former Fox News producer who had accused Bill O’Reilly of sexual harassment reached a settlement in which her lawyers agreed to work for Mr. O’Reilly after the dispute. But legal experts generally consider such setups to be unethical because they can create conflicts between the interests of the lawyers and their original clients. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/business/david-boies-pottinger-jeffrey-epstein-videos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/business/david-boies-pott...
- secfirstmd 7y ago
  Thanks that's interesting, I didn't know that!
- B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
  [repeat w/o scrollbar due to double spaces] """ Mr. Pottinger later said that the scenario would have involved him representing a victim, settling a case and then representing the victim’s alleged abuser. He said it was within legal boundaries. (He also said he had meant to type “No client lawsuit is actually involved.”) Such legal arrangements are not unheard-of. Lawyers representing a former Fox News producer who had accused Bill O’Reilly of sexual harassment reached a settlement in which her lawyers agreed to work for Mr. O’Reilly after the dispute. But legal experts generally consider such setups to be unethical because they can create conflicts between the interests of the lawyers and their original clients. """

chiefalchemist 7y ago

> "He said the plan was approved by the U.S. State Department and the National Security Agency, and that Good Harbor followed U.S. law." If you're cynical that sentence is frightening.

ev0lv 7y ago
Can you elaborate why?

onetimemanytime 7y ago

>>Utilizing his close relationship to the country’s rulers, forged through decades of experience as a senior U.S. decision-maker, Clarke won numerous security consulting contracts in the UAE. Let's collects lots of business cards so in a few years we can cash in our favors. There oughta be a law...

walrus01 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSRA_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSRA_Inc. One of the contractors in question. Now a part of General Dynamics.

walrus01 7y ago

In my personal opinion there is absolutely no way that "five eyes" nations should allow ex-intelligence-agency personnel, particularly from the NSA and related SIGINT entities (CSE, GCHQ, etc) to go work in the private sector for non democratic regimes. You want to go work for Denmark, or Germany? Sure, get the appropriate permit from the department of state. For the UAE, or Iran, or Myanmar? No. I don't care if the royal family running the UAE are supposedly our friends. Any person that is a citizen of a five eyes + partner nation, which goes to work for a project like this, should immediately find themselves the target of their country-of-citizenship's intelligence agencies.

nexuist 7y ago
> Any person that is a citizen of a five eyes + partner nation, which goes to work for a project like this, should immediately find themselves the target of their country-of-citizenship's intelligence agencies. Do you not believe this to already be the case?
LocalTrust 7y ago
Given the way the US oscillates between administrations with oppressive tendencies and administrations which are at best squeamish when they violate international human rights laws, to me this just sounds like a skunkworks project.
Der_Einzige 7y ago
Not to imply that Myanmar is a place where sigint entites should work, but since 2010 the country has dramatically improved and democratized and even has a (mostly) free press
- walrus01 7y ago
  Right, except for that pesky ethnic cleansing problem

carokann 7y ago

Khasoggi (and a myriad of other political dissidents) was tracked with software obtained by Saudis from Israel (NSO) and butchered in a consulate. A year after it, Veterans are still allowed to co-op with these dudes? No lesson learned after all.