4 ms·

Honestly I think the solution is emigration. There are places in the world where you can make a living without any particular skill set, but I don’t think the

Honestly I think the solution is emigration. There are places in the world where you can make a living without any particular skill set, but I don’t think the US, or any other first-world country, should really be among them. The US needs immigration reform to bring more high-skilled people into the country, but it also needs emigration reform to find new homes for people who can’t necessarily make a reasonable living in a first-world country.

gruez 7y ago
It sounds to me that you're advocating for sending low class/uneducated/low skilled Americans to developing countries. Is this a fair representation of your proposal?
tombert 7y ago
Please correct me if I misunderstood this, but are you seriously suggesting that the way we solve problems of poverty is to just get rid of the poor people?
- paggle 7y ago
  That doesn’t seem to be what he’s suggesting at all. It seems like he’s suggesting they relocate to a place where they can make a better living, like my parents did by moving to the US in 1971.
  - tombert 7y ago
    Yes, but it seems like the implication is "relocate to a place where they can make a better living, instead of fixing the problems". Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but looking at the sister comments here seems to indicate that I'm not the only one if I did.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    Please describe where you think people ought to go live that will accept poor low skill workers?
Sebguer 7y ago
This is one of the most awful things I've ever read on this site, so thanks for that, I guess.
codedokode 7y ago
Why do you think that people without skills will have better life in developing countries? The salaries there are even lower, for example, in Russia hourly rate in McDonalds is $2-4 depending on the city. The only kind of housing the employee can afford is a room in a shared apartment or sharing a room with a friend or living with parents for free.
- postsantum 7y ago
  I was about to call you out on this, but decided to check first. The starting salary in McDonalds is less than $2/hour. WTF
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  If your skill set is cashier you will almost certainly be denied moving even to Russia
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Who knows, maybe they want to take advantage of cheap unskilled American labor. Seriously though, countries with labor shortages will allow unskilled people to visit and work for awhile at least (eg Australia).
Ancalagon 7y ago
Wow this is incredibly dystopian to think about. Just imagine, you're born into a country that by no will of your own becomes more and more expensive. You're given an inadequate education to function in this country, so you're forced to work menial jobs to make ends meet, and hope that by some lottery stroke of luck you will somehow develop the time or the money or the skills to have a good life. BUT if you don't get this stroke of luck, you are asked to emigrate away from your friends and family?
- Humdeee 7y ago
  Can you imagine writing your 12th grade anti-deportation exam, and looking around the room and knowing that the lowest ~15% of your peers will be asked to leave the country? I don't even want to think of the new suicide rate in that world.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Canada might have this problem soon. Study visas are virtually unrestricted. But there are more being issued than immigration pathway seats (which are restricted).
echlebek 7y ago
You've already been dunked on by plenty of other people, but I don't think they did a good job of explaining why you are wrong. The USA has a labour shortage problem. There aren't enough people that want to spend their lives picking fruit, doing maid services, working fast food, and just generally taking care of all the problems that wealthier people pay to have taken care of. You can pay immigrants rock bottom wages to do this work, which is the status quo in the USA today. They accept it because it comes with the promise of a better life one day. If not for them, then for their children. If you want to send all those people packing, then get ready to pay $10 for a tomato. No, robots aren't going to help, either.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Why would an unskilled poor person do better in an environment with worse resources to help them? In a poorer country they would have a decreased cost of living but a decreased earnings and fewer family and friends. I cannot comprehend the thought process that leads you to come to this conclusion. Example my wife is disabled we live on my very modest income due to costs of life and medical care we have zero wealth of any kind and a well maintained 2004 car. I think I have $13 in the bank right now. Where ought I move to increase my fortunes and who would let me who would also pay for my wife's medicine.
- larnmar 7y ago
  To be fair I never said it would be to the advantage of the people we relocate, but it would be to the advantage of the rest of us. Imagine a society with no poverty, no homelessness, next to no crime, etc.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    It's not that it would be to their disadvantage it would ruin and kill them. Poverty often follows medical issues which then wouldnt see any help. Compare total mortality with projected mortality and you can figure out how many exactly you are murdering. To facilitate the operation you will have to gut civil rights setting precedents with horrible implications for everyone's freedom. If you can send someone to a foreign land because they are poor, lame, or merely unsuccessful removing all of their rights merely because their fellow citizens will be richer for it then what rights do YOU have left that are inalienable? Presumably your rules don't apply to all those who have no wealth or income who depend on others so now dependants are slaves who need fear losing their status if they fall out of favor. We can apply the same logic to the working poor who now must fear deportation as a result of losing their asses when terminated. Spousal abuse and labor mistreatment will rise substantially. Then we must ask what nation would willingly serve as our ashtray of undesirables. Your idea is like an endless cornacopua of horrible implications. The last time I read a blueprint for a worse outcome it was written by George Orwell.
timwaagh 7y ago
i think you're not wrong in the sense her living standard would be higher in a lot of ways in emerging economies. it does leave the question where the us should source its service workers from.

gruez 7y ago

It sounds to me that you're advocating for sending low class/uneducated/low skilled Americans to developing countries. Is this a fair representation of your proposal?

tombert 7y ago

Please correct me if I misunderstood this, but are you seriously suggesting that the way we solve problems of poverty is to just get rid of the poor people?

paggle 7y ago
That doesn’t seem to be what he’s suggesting at all. It seems like he’s suggesting they relocate to a place where they can make a better living, like my parents did by moving to the US in 1971.
- tombert 7y ago
  Yes, but it seems like the implication is "relocate to a place where they can make a better living, instead of fixing the problems". Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but looking at the sister comments here seems to indicate that I'm not the only one if I did.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  Please describe where you think people ought to go live that will accept poor low skill workers?

Sebguer 7y ago

This is one of the most awful things I've ever read on this site, so thanks for that, I guess.

codedokode 7y ago

Why do you think that people without skills will have better life in developing countries? The salaries there are even lower, for example, in Russia hourly rate in McDonalds is $2-4 depending on the city. The only kind of housing the employee can afford is a room in a shared apartment or sharing a room with a friend or living with parents for free.

postsantum 7y ago
I was about to call you out on this, but decided to check first. The starting salary in McDonalds is less than $2/hour. WTF
michaelmrose 7y ago
If your skill set is cashier you will almost certainly be denied moving even to Russia
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Who knows, maybe they want to take advantage of cheap unskilled American labor. Seriously though, countries with labor shortages will allow unskilled people to visit and work for awhile at least (eg Australia).

Ancalagon 7y ago

Wow this is incredibly dystopian to think about. Just imagine, you're born into a country that by no will of your own becomes more and more expensive. You're given an inadequate education to function in this country, so you're forced to work menial jobs to make ends meet, and hope that by some lottery stroke of luck you will somehow develop the time or the money or the skills to have a good life. BUT if you don't get this stroke of luck, you are asked to emigrate away from your friends and family?

Humdeee 7y ago
Can you imagine writing your 12th grade anti-deportation exam, and looking around the room and knowing that the lowest ~15% of your peers will be asked to leave the country? I don't even want to think of the new suicide rate in that world.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Canada might have this problem soon. Study visas are virtually unrestricted. But there are more being issued than immigration pathway seats (which are restricted).

echlebek 7y ago

You've already been dunked on by plenty of other people, but I don't think they did a good job of explaining why you are wrong. The USA has a labour shortage problem. There aren't enough people that want to spend their lives picking fruit, doing maid services, working fast food, and just generally taking care of all the problems that wealthier people pay to have taken care of. You can pay immigrants rock bottom wages to do this work, which is the status quo in the USA today. They accept it because it comes with the promise of a better life one day. If not for them, then for their children. If you want to send all those people packing, then get ready to pay $10 for a tomato. No, robots aren't going to help, either.

michaelmrose 7y ago

Why would an unskilled poor person do better in an environment with worse resources to help them? In a poorer country they would have a decreased cost of living but a decreased earnings and fewer family and friends. I cannot comprehend the thought process that leads you to come to this conclusion. Example my wife is disabled we live on my very modest income due to costs of life and medical care we have zero wealth of any kind and a well maintained 2004 car. I think I have $13 in the bank right now. Where ought I move to increase my fortunes and who would let me who would also pay for my wife's medicine.

larnmar 7y ago
To be fair I never said it would be to the advantage of the people we relocate, but it would be to the advantage of the rest of us. Imagine a society with no poverty, no homelessness, next to no crime, etc.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  It's not that it would be to their disadvantage it would ruin and kill them. Poverty often follows medical issues which then wouldnt see any help. Compare total mortality with projected mortality and you can figure out how many exactly you are murdering. To facilitate the operation you will have to gut civil rights setting precedents with horrible implications for everyone's freedom. If you can send someone to a foreign land because they are poor, lame, or merely unsuccessful removing all of their rights merely because their fellow citizens will be richer for it then what rights do YOU have left that are inalienable? Presumably your rules don't apply to all those who have no wealth or income who depend on others so now dependants are slaves who need fear losing their status if they fall out of favor. We can apply the same logic to the working poor who now must fear deportation as a result of losing their asses when terminated. Spousal abuse and labor mistreatment will rise substantially. Then we must ask what nation would willingly serve as our ashtray of undesirables. Your idea is like an endless cornacopua of horrible implications. The last time I read a blueprint for a worse outcome it was written by George Orwell.

timwaagh 7y ago

i think you're not wrong in the sense her living standard would be higher in a lot of ways in emerging economies. it does leave the question where the us should source its service workers from.