15 ms·

Aldous Huxley Foresaw America’s Pill-Popping Addiction

156 points by benbreen 7y ago

squidsurfer 7y ago
From my perspective, Brave New World was a cautionary tale of transhumanism, technocracy, secularism, and hedonism. The climax of the novel delves into theology and the condition of man, with the protagonist lamenting the disappearance from society of God or any higher allegiance than to the self or state. Whenever I hear John Lennon's Imagine, I always imagine the world portrayed in this story.
millzlane 7y ago
And just 21 years later, Ray Bradbury who wrote Fahrenheit 451 would signal the OD crisis that EMT's face today. https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/key-questions/why-does-mildred-overdose/ https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/key-questions/why-does-mi...
- SilasX 7y ago
  He kinda missed the mark on predicting greater ability to suppress information though.
  - smegger001 7y ago
    Did he miss the mark? Ask the average person on the street why congress are having impeachment proceedings against the president. most will either regurgitate some fox news conspiracy theory or say something about Russia. while the actual reason is he attempted to extort a personal quid pro quo from the Ukrainian government in exchange for releasing foreign aid funds they were due. Sounds to me like he predicted people not reading and getting nothing but propaganda misinformation and empty mindless entertainment from tv just right.
    - SilasX 7y ago
      The reason has nothing to do with his “firemen”.
      - smegger001 7y ago
        To quote the conversation with the firechief Captain Beatty; "There you have it, Montag. It didn’t come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick"
    - artificial 7y ago
      The partisan nature of media companies certainly contributes when 90% of the reporters lean one way and laud social media strategies for one candidate and loath when the other follows suit. No one network has a monopoly on conspiracy theories.l, they all push narratives. As far as entertainment, that industry is notoriously scummy and rife with political connections.
    - elil17 7y ago
      Ask the average person on the street in the 60's to explain why America was at war in Vietnam and they'll tell you something vague about Communism. Ask the average person on the street in 1776 to explain the economic and political factors that lead to the Declaration of Independence and they'll think it has something to do with tea. The fact that the world is not filled with current event junkies is nothing new. I'm not saying there's been no eroding of American democracy or the like, but it's not like people have been suddenly brainwashed in a way that's fundamentally different than prior decades.
notadoc 7y ago
And 1984 foresaw speech police, wrong-think, and cultural cleansing yada yada....
- buboard 7y ago
  it should be called 2018
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    Twenty Eighteen.
- SquishyPanda23 7y ago
  Nineteen Eighty-Four was written in reaction to totalitarianism, it didn't anticipate it.
andrewclunn 7y ago
Slaves to capitalism? Slaves to authoritarian government? Slaves to mindless entertainment? Slaves to theocracy? Slaves to addiction? And then it hits you... people want to be slaves, and in the heart of every dystopian novel is the wretched truth that most people find purpose and comfort in no longer needing to worry about thinking.
llamataboot 7y ago
Would at least be useful to point out in this article that Huxley didn't have an overly moralistic view of substance use in general and he wrote one of the most classic books about using psychedelics to explore consciousness with Doors of Perception! -- I tend to find simplistic pro and anti substance screeds yawn-inducing. All psychoactive substances, whether legal or not, whether they have physical dependency issues or not, whether they are used by rich people or poor people, have a unique set of consciousness-altering properties in the short-term and long-term. They give with one hand and take away with the other. Whether something is useful for short-term or long-term use is a profoundly individual choice that is best made with as much information available as possible, and far separated from moralizing judgement. And sometimes, far from the pharma companies and current psychiatric fad. -- I don't see much new in this article. It's true lots of people are popping pills to deal with late capitalism, but maybe that's what a lot of humans have to do in late capitalism til we figure out something better.
- squidsurfer 7y ago
  Late capitalism? Hasnt marxist historical materialism been debunked? Why is this term suddenly making a resurgence? More likely the pill popping is on the rise in the face of a creeping nihilism as traditional religious faith and that way of viewing the world and ordering society is on the decline.
Sindrome 7y ago
Orgies as well. Went to my first one 2 weeks ago. Orgy-porgy baby.
drongoking 7y ago
I hate to be That Guy Who Argues With Everything, but I will. I'm a big fan of Huxley and Brave New World, but he wasn't particularly visionary with Soma. Drug use goes back as far as humankind does because people have been trying to cope with the stress of life since there have been people. If you're looking for a drug that helps with the anxieties of everyday life, alcohol would have my vote. It's been used for thousands of years, for better or worse. Alcohol use comes with lots of problems, of course, but that doesn't stop it from being the socially acceptable drug of choice. As for Valium, it seems odd this article even makes a big deal about it. Valium (and benzodiazepines in general) aren't prescribed as much these days because of their addictive potential. Their spike of popularity came and went in a few decades, roughly 1960-1980. Benzos are still popular in illicit use, but a key point of Soma was that it wasn't illicit---it was sanctioned by the state.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  > Valium (and benzodiazepines in general) aren't prescribed as much these days because of their addictive potential. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/688287824/steep-climb-in-benzodiazepine-prescribing-by-primary-care-doctors https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/6882878... What were the prescription rates in the 60s?
  - flatline 7y ago
    Ridiculously high. A quick search reveals that: > After about ten years on the market, Valium had been prescribed to 59.3 million patients [0] The US population in 1970 was about 200 million. A significant portion of the adult US population took valium at some point during the 60s/70s. [0] https://www.valiumaddiction.com/history-of-v.htm https://www.valiumaddiction.com/history-of-v.htm
    - Alex3917 7y ago
      Interesting. The NYT says 59.3 million prescriptions, not patients. [0] If so the number of patients would presumably be significantly lower, since it is in fact addictive. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/1976/02/01/archives/article-16-no-title-americans-are-spending-almost-half-a-billion.html https://www.nytimes.com/1976/02/01/archives/article-16-no-ti...
zer00eyz 7y ago
I think it is cute that the author trys to make some leap about valium. If Huxley was talking about, or thinking of anything it would have been a more contemporary problem. Though my memory of the book is hazy, I do not recall that Soma was addictive or potentially deadly. The contemporary family of drugs would have been barbiturates, and in the very early days of their use. Well before we knew how bad that they were in regards to addition and withdrawl. Valium is a benzodiazepine, and those come much later, again we don't find out how bad the withdrawal from them is till much later. In some regards benzodiazepines end up replacing barbiturates not for consumer heath reasons rather for patent and profit reasons because as it turns out both are fairly damaging.
- mrob 7y ago
  Benzodiazepines are much more difficult to fatally overdose on than barbiturates, which is IMO an important health reason.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Huxley and Orwell saw two dystopian futures in different ways: one, totalitarian and ever watchful government. The other, a society robbed of cognitive and personal agency via societal pressure and medication. When I was young, I thought Orwell's future was the most dangerous an imminent. Then later Huxley, especially once things like "apps" were created. Now I see they both work together to erode liberty. Your culture works against the expression of your constitutional rights, especially in certain areas of our country. And of course, if you stop using those liberties you might never notice once they're taken away.
- sidpatil 7y ago
  Huxley wrote a letter to Orwell, claiming that his own prediction of the future would be more likely than the recipient's. http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/1984-v-brave-new-world.html?m=1 http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/1984-v-brave-new-world....
  - Nition 7y ago
    Interesting justification there as well. > I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World. The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency.
- MFLoon 7y ago
  I'd agree with the spirit of your assertion that both the state, through surveillance and beauracratic control, and the market, through ever increasing share of our attention and hold over our appetites, are having harmful effects on many people. But it's interesting that you frame that harm as 'eroding liberty'. I've recently been reading a book called "Why Liberalism Failed" by Patrick Deneen, which also sees these two forces as working together to harm both the individual and society at large, but not by restricting our liberty so much as trading away other valuable social goods for a surfeit of liberties most of us don't actually need or benefit from. The liberty to buy whatever our appetites desire, at any time. The liberty to uproot ourselves and live "globally" without concern for the locales we leave behind. The liberty to profit seek without regard for externalities. Deneen draws a contrast between "liberty to <do, own, or be something>" and "liberty from being ruled by our animal urges and appetites". The ancient Greeks who coined the term saw liberty as a virtue explicitly in the latter capacity. But the modern sense of what it is to be liberated is explicitly centered around the former. But I think the liberty you allude to is more of the ancient conception, and I agree, the pincers of the government and the market are eroding our liberty from animal urges, in exchange for an ever expanding menu of nominal liberties to which are often harmful to ourselves and others.
mudil 7y ago
I am a practicing anesthesiologist and I see every day what medications my patients take, because we review preoperatively their in home meds. And it's astonishing that a large chunk of population takes either psychiatric or psychoactive prescription meds plus cannabis, etc. I even have a joke that Americans voluntarily take meds that in Soviet Union were only given to the political prisoners.
- Cougher 7y ago
  This presents an interesting diversion: the phenomenon of anesthesiologists who are addicted to drugs. I worked with one who lost his position as chief because he was caught buying street drugs . . . on a city street. If people who are so well-educated about the effects of recreational drug use can still succumb to it, it's unreasonable to expect that the average person should be "smart enough" to be immune to the risks.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    I think it obvious personally - you would find it difficult to find an anaestiologist who fears the drugs. Also notably the reason you heard about it was because the hammer of the state, not because the drugs itself ruined his life.
    - Cougher 7y ago
      I generally agree about the hammer of the state angle, but another angle here is that if medical people are addicted to drugs and they have access to patients' drugs, they can potentially skim some of the drugs that they're supposed to be giving their patients.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Medical practitioners have a long history with sampling the wares from the drug cabinet.
        7y ago
nickstinemates 7y ago
For people who are a fan of Huxley's work, I would recommend taking a look at Island[1]. It contrasts well with the dystopian view of Brave New World by providing a look into other reasons a successful utopia might fall. Of course, the constant theme of experimentation with hallucinogenics is apparent in this book as well. 1: I listened on Audible while driving, I highly recommend https://www.audible.com/pd/Island-Audiobook/B01L0LZWVO https://www.audible.com/pd/Island-Audiobook/B01L0LZWVO
Thorentis 7y ago
More importantly, he predicted the rise of The Pill (birth control) very eerily too. And the long term effect that it will have on civilization is undeniable. Whatever your stance on the pill, I think it is naive to think that it will not have a lasting and deep impact on western civilization (and as it spreads globally, to all of human civilization). Never before has sex been able to be had without consequence. Or the urge to have sex not led to at least the possibility of reproduction. For those that grew up entirely in a world where it exists and is readily available, it will have a huge impact on how they see sex, relationships, dating, and reproduction. Sure, the world has a lot of people. But a civilization that by default, does not want to produce children? (As Huxley envisioned, and as I think will be the case in the coming decades) is headed for sure collapse.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  > Sure, the world has a lot of people. But a civilization that by default, does not want to produce children? (As Huxley envisioned, and as I think will be the case in the coming decades) is headed for sure collapse. Contraception and abortifacients have existed for millennia. People in the developed world are choosing not have children because of costs. Having children in the developing world is an investment that is paid back in the form of free labor, dowries and someone to care for you when you're elderly.
  - jerf 7y ago
    "Contraception and abortifacients have existed for millennia." Yes, but not reliably (for contraception) or safely (for abortifacients), and by their nature, 80% reliable contraception is of dubious utility.
    - oska 7y ago
      > 80% reliable contraception is of dubious utility. You realise the quoted reliability rates are per year, not per act? For example, the withdrawal method (available to everyone, for all time) has a reliability rate of 78% for typical use and 96% for perfect use. [1] Obviously, even at 78% reliability over a year, that is of a great deal of utility. 78% of the time a woman whose partner practises withdrawal will not get pregnant over the course of a year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus
decebalus1 7y ago
I will probably go against the grain here but my inner tinfoil hat is telling me that the recent marijuana legalization is actually secretly run by the military industrial complex in order to silence dissent. Kind of the 'lithium in the water supply' thing.
- drongoking 7y ago
  Heh. Except it took forever for states to begin decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana, and it isn't legal at the Federal level yet.
  - decebalus1 7y ago
    The more opposition you appear to have, the more people will fight for it. My theory is that (again, tinfoil hat) if the federal government really didn't want marijuana to be legal, it wouldn't have been. If they really cracked down on it on the ground in the states where it was tolerated (before getting legalized), it wouldn't be legal now. Unless we get another Vietnam, where the government fears that young folk is too woke/high to fight in a war, it would rather have them sedated than dissenting. Automation is growing, blue collar jobs are going away, not everyone invested in their white collar future, income inequality keeps growing, better have them baked rather that raising their fists.
- dawg- 7y ago
  Eh, I would doubt it seeing as how pot was the drug of choice for all the hippies during the biggest anti-war movement in our country's history
  - decebalus1 7y ago
    we've reached a point where we can wage war with way WAY less people and way more taxpayer money so the number of folks who want to go to war or who support war doesn't really matter. The draft is an outdated concept. You'll always have people who want to go into the army for the welfare. Also, weed is much stronger today than it was in the '70s and now you have regular folks walking around secretly addicted to pot [0]. That was definitely not the case in the '70. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-addiction.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-...
maverick2007 7y ago
The scariest thing in this article to me was buried at the end describing how many of these drugs can be found in the water supply (albeit in mostly trace amounts). Whether you want them or not, it seems like everyone is going to get these medications in trace amounts and who knows what they will do to our bodies over time. Is there anything that I as an average person can do to remove as many of these chemicals as I can? A special filter?
- wincy 7y ago
  You could get spring water for really cheap. It’s something like $30 a month. No idea if it actually has less pharmaceuticals in it though.
- elil17 7y ago
  Any activated carbon filter should do - these molecules are pretty big and will be caught by a Brita filter or similar. Faucet attachment systems are the most effective. https://nowtoronto.com/what-chemicals-do-brita-type-filters-remove-from-water/ https://nowtoronto.com/what-chemicals-do-brita-type-filters-...
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Not worry about it. It is like trying to boost testerone or estrogen by the sex of your meat source - so hillariously ineffectual it is effectively mysticism.
- refurb 7y ago
  Why are you concerned? We’re able to detect pharmaceuticals in water at several levels of magnitude lower than any actual impact. We’re talking parts per trillion. I’d be more concerned about things like lead and other toxic metals.
usaidkamran007 7y ago
Just get it through
sreatyugr 7y ago
To anyone who like dystopian books I find that the most succinct of the early genre is Rose Macaulay's What Not. It's a little harder to parse then the others because it was written in world war 1. I think it's really interesting as the earliest example I've found of this kind of story telling.
arminiusreturns 7y ago
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's a brave new world... until you resist, then it's 1984.
darkFunction 7y ago
Soma became a reality and takes the form of constant distractions and serotonin hits delivered via our mobile devices and TV screens. It's the status notifications, the likes, the latest Netflix series, browsing Reddit in bed. It's pornography and follower counts. We consume the Soma until our pleasure receptors are fatigued then we sleep and repeat the process. Huxley was right and it has nothing to do with pills.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pennpaper 7y ago
Brave New World is one of my most favorite books. Ever. The scary thing about it is that reading you start to understand that although this might be a vision of the future, it really is just a replica of what is already going on. Pill popping has been happening for ages, especially for a happy-feeling reason.
leed25d 7y ago
So did William Burroughs, from a slightly different aspect.
Animats 7y ago
"They have given us Soma, and it is called Valium." Not quite. They have given us Soma, and it is called cannabis.
LessDmesg 7y ago
I've never taken anti-depressants and don't understand why so many people do. If you can't calm down your own mind, then you've got a problem no pill is going to solve - and the fact that people abuse these pills or keep taking them habitually proves this.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  You don't understand depression or antidepressants period. Antidepressants typically take weeks to take effect and have a low efficency rate overall - the reason why so many are approved is because it is a matter of cycling through them to find one which is actually effective and without unacceptable side effects. The closest form of "abuse" aside from idiots who take any random substances to try to get high (in which case Mike & Ikes or kitchen spices also qualify because it is a matter of intent) is using them to try to make other withdrawal symptoms more tolerable which is far from mainstream even among burnt out addicts.
  - mmjaa 7y ago
    Antidepressants are a belief system, and like most religions, have both their detractors and promoters. And, like most religions, there is money to be made ... Lots and lots of money. Antidepressants have the same efficacy as placebo. Whether or not you believe this depends on if you have a prescription, and/or have understood the studies which point this out.
smilbandit 7y ago
Aldous's pill popping from Brave New World isn't as interesting as what he said in his interview with Mike Wallace, https://youtu.be/alasBxZsb40 https://youtu.be/alasBxZsb40
- mindfulgeek 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing that link. What he’s saying here is very relevant today.
Melting_Harps 7y ago
Did anyone see this part in the article: Fentanyl wasn’t on offer, but agents kept following the digital trails that have made it easier for people like Muhammad and Yan to enter the global drug trade and for investigators to hunt them down. Because Yan used Gmail, operated by U.S.-based Google, Gibbons and his team could persuade a judge to let them monitor his communications in real time. FAANG is an extension of the US' Law Enforcement and Intelligence Agencies, in case anyone had any doubts. This is why they get so much funding from both respectively, and why they can get away with such egregious infractions and unlawful behaviour. Those of you dropping where you work should really have some reservations of what is taking place with your labour and in your name.

156 points by benbreen 7y ago

From my perspective, Brave New World was a cautionary tale of transhumanism, technocracy, secularism, and hedonism. The climax of the novel delves into theology and the condition of man, with the protagonist lamenting the disappearance from society of God or any higher allegiance than to the self or state. Whenever I hear John Lennon's Imagine, I always imagine the world portrayed in this story.

millzlane 7y ago

And just 21 years later, Ray Bradbury who wrote Fahrenheit 451 would signal the OD crisis that EMT's face today. https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/key-questions/why-does-mildred-overdose/ https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/key-questions/why-does-mi...

SilasX 7y ago
He kinda missed the mark on predicting greater ability to suppress information though.
- smegger001 7y ago
  Did he miss the mark? Ask the average person on the street why congress are having impeachment proceedings against the president. most will either regurgitate some fox news conspiracy theory or say something about Russia. while the actual reason is he attempted to extort a personal quid pro quo from the Ukrainian government in exchange for releasing foreign aid funds they were due. Sounds to me like he predicted people not reading and getting nothing but propaganda misinformation and empty mindless entertainment from tv just right.
  - SilasX 7y ago
    The reason has nothing to do with his “firemen”.
    - smegger001 7y ago
      To quote the conversation with the firechief Captain Beatty; "There you have it, Montag. It didn’t come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick"
  - artificial 7y ago
    The partisan nature of media companies certainly contributes when 90% of the reporters lean one way and laud social media strategies for one candidate and loath when the other follows suit. No one network has a monopoly on conspiracy theories.l, they all push narratives. As far as entertainment, that industry is notoriously scummy and rife with political connections.
  - elil17 7y ago
    Ask the average person on the street in the 60's to explain why America was at war in Vietnam and they'll tell you something vague about Communism. Ask the average person on the street in 1776 to explain the economic and political factors that lead to the Declaration of Independence and they'll think it has something to do with tea. The fact that the world is not filled with current event junkies is nothing new. I'm not saying there's been no eroding of American democracy or the like, but it's not like people have been suddenly brainwashed in a way that's fundamentally different than prior decades.

notadoc 7y ago

And 1984 foresaw speech police, wrong-think, and cultural cleansing yada yada....

buboard 7y ago
it should be called 2018
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Twenty Eighteen.
SquishyPanda23 7y ago
Nineteen Eighty-Four was written in reaction to totalitarianism, it didn't anticipate it.

andrewclunn 7y ago

Slaves to capitalism? Slaves to authoritarian government? Slaves to mindless entertainment? Slaves to theocracy? Slaves to addiction? And then it hits you... people want to be slaves, and in the heart of every dystopian novel is the wretched truth that most people find purpose and comfort in no longer needing to worry about thinking.

llamataboot 7y ago

Would at least be useful to point out in this article that Huxley didn't have an overly moralistic view of substance use in general and he wrote one of the most classic books about using psychedelics to explore consciousness with Doors of Perception! -- I tend to find simplistic pro and anti substance screeds yawn-inducing. All psychoactive substances, whether legal or not, whether they have physical dependency issues or not, whether they are used by rich people or poor people, have a unique set of consciousness-altering properties in the short-term and long-term. They give with one hand and take away with the other. Whether something is useful for short-term or long-term use is a profoundly individual choice that is best made with as much information available as possible, and far separated from moralizing judgement. And sometimes, far from the pharma companies and current psychiatric fad. -- I don't see much new in this article. It's true lots of people are popping pills to deal with late capitalism, but maybe that's what a lot of humans have to do in late capitalism til we figure out something better.

squidsurfer 7y ago
Late capitalism? Hasnt marxist historical materialism been debunked? Why is this term suddenly making a resurgence? More likely the pill popping is on the rise in the face of a creeping nihilism as traditional religious faith and that way of viewing the world and ordering society is on the decline.

Sindrome 7y ago

Orgies as well. Went to my first one 2 weeks ago. Orgy-porgy baby.

drongoking 7y ago

I hate to be That Guy Who Argues With Everything, but I will. I'm a big fan of Huxley and Brave New World, but he wasn't particularly visionary with Soma. Drug use goes back as far as humankind does because people have been trying to cope with the stress of life since there have been people. If you're looking for a drug that helps with the anxieties of everyday life, alcohol would have my vote. It's been used for thousands of years, for better or worse. Alcohol use comes with lots of problems, of course, but that doesn't stop it from being the socially acceptable drug of choice. As for Valium, it seems odd this article even makes a big deal about it. Valium (and benzodiazepines in general) aren't prescribed as much these days because of their addictive potential. Their spike of popularity came and went in a few decades, roughly 1960-1980. Benzos are still popular in illicit use, but a key point of Soma was that it wasn't illicit---it was sanctioned by the state.

Alex3917 7y ago
> Valium (and benzodiazepines in general) aren't prescribed as much these days because of their addictive potential. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/688287824/steep-climb-in-benzodiazepine-prescribing-by-primary-care-doctors https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/25/6882878... What were the prescription rates in the 60s?
- flatline 7y ago
  Ridiculously high. A quick search reveals that: > After about ten years on the market, Valium had been prescribed to 59.3 million patients [0] The US population in 1970 was about 200 million. A significant portion of the adult US population took valium at some point during the 60s/70s. [0] https://www.valiumaddiction.com/history-of-v.htm https://www.valiumaddiction.com/history-of-v.htm
  - Alex3917 7y ago
    Interesting. The NYT says 59.3 million prescriptions, not patients. [0] If so the number of patients would presumably be significantly lower, since it is in fact addictive. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/1976/02/01/archives/article-16-no-title-americans-are-spending-almost-half-a-billion.html https://www.nytimes.com/1976/02/01/archives/article-16-no-ti...

zer00eyz 7y ago

I think it is cute that the author trys to make some leap about valium. If Huxley was talking about, or thinking of anything it would have been a more contemporary problem. Though my memory of the book is hazy, I do not recall that Soma was addictive or potentially deadly. The contemporary family of drugs would have been barbiturates, and in the very early days of their use. Well before we knew how bad that they were in regards to addition and withdrawl. Valium is a benzodiazepine, and those come much later, again we don't find out how bad the withdrawal from them is till much later. In some regards benzodiazepines end up replacing barbiturates not for consumer heath reasons rather for patent and profit reasons because as it turns out both are fairly damaging.

mrob 7y ago
Benzodiazepines are much more difficult to fatally overdose on than barbiturates, which is IMO an important health reason.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Huxley and Orwell saw two dystopian futures in different ways: one, totalitarian and ever watchful government. The other, a society robbed of cognitive and personal agency via societal pressure and medication. When I was young, I thought Orwell's future was the most dangerous an imminent. Then later Huxley, especially once things like "apps" were created. Now I see they both work together to erode liberty. Your culture works against the expression of your constitutional rights, especially in certain areas of our country. And of course, if you stop using those liberties you might never notice once they're taken away.

sidpatil 7y ago
Huxley wrote a letter to Orwell, claiming that his own prediction of the future would be more likely than the recipient's. http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/1984-v-brave-new-world.html?m=1 http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/1984-v-brave-new-world....
- Nition 7y ago
  Interesting justification there as well. > I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World. The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency.
MFLoon 7y ago
I'd agree with the spirit of your assertion that both the state, through surveillance and beauracratic control, and the market, through ever increasing share of our attention and hold over our appetites, are having harmful effects on many people. But it's interesting that you frame that harm as 'eroding liberty'. I've recently been reading a book called "Why Liberalism Failed" by Patrick Deneen, which also sees these two forces as working together to harm both the individual and society at large, but not by restricting our liberty so much as trading away other valuable social goods for a surfeit of liberties most of us don't actually need or benefit from. The liberty to buy whatever our appetites desire, at any time. The liberty to uproot ourselves and live "globally" without concern for the locales we leave behind. The liberty to profit seek without regard for externalities. Deneen draws a contrast between "liberty to <do, own, or be something>" and "liberty from being ruled by our animal urges and appetites". The ancient Greeks who coined the term saw liberty as a virtue explicitly in the latter capacity. But the modern sense of what it is to be liberated is explicitly centered around the former. But I think the liberty you allude to is more of the ancient conception, and I agree, the pincers of the government and the market are eroding our liberty from animal urges, in exchange for an ever expanding menu of nominal liberties to which are often harmful to ourselves and others.

mudil 7y ago

I am a practicing anesthesiologist and I see every day what medications my patients take, because we review preoperatively their in home meds. And it's astonishing that a large chunk of population takes either psychiatric or psychoactive prescription meds plus cannabis, etc. I even have a joke that Americans voluntarily take meds that in Soviet Union were only given to the political prisoners.

Cougher 7y ago
This presents an interesting diversion: the phenomenon of anesthesiologists who are addicted to drugs. I worked with one who lost his position as chief because he was caught buying street drugs . . . on a city street. If people who are so well-educated about the effects of recreational drug use can still succumb to it, it's unreasonable to expect that the average person should be "smart enough" to be immune to the risks.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  I think it obvious personally - you would find it difficult to find an anaestiologist who fears the drugs. Also notably the reason you heard about it was because the hammer of the state, not because the drugs itself ruined his life.
  - Cougher 7y ago
    I generally agree about the hammer of the state angle, but another angle here is that if medical people are addicted to drugs and they have access to patients' drugs, they can potentially skim some of the drugs that they're supposed to be giving their patients.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Medical practitioners have a long history with sampling the wares from the drug cabinet.
      - 7y ago

nickstinemates 7y ago

For people who are a fan of Huxley's work, I would recommend taking a look at Island[1]. It contrasts well with the dystopian view of Brave New World by providing a look into other reasons a successful utopia might fall. Of course, the constant theme of experimentation with hallucinogenics is apparent in this book as well. 1: I listened on Audible while driving, I highly recommend https://www.audible.com/pd/Island-Audiobook/B01L0LZWVO https://www.audible.com/pd/Island-Audiobook/B01L0LZWVO

Thorentis 7y ago

More importantly, he predicted the rise of The Pill (birth control) very eerily too. And the long term effect that it will have on civilization is undeniable. Whatever your stance on the pill, I think it is naive to think that it will not have a lasting and deep impact on western civilization (and as it spreads globally, to all of human civilization). Never before has sex been able to be had without consequence. Or the urge to have sex not led to at least the possibility of reproduction. For those that grew up entirely in a world where it exists and is readily available, it will have a huge impact on how they see sex, relationships, dating, and reproduction. Sure, the world has a lot of people. But a civilization that by default, does not want to produce children? (As Huxley envisioned, and as I think will be the case in the coming decades) is headed for sure collapse.

heavyset_go 7y ago
> Sure, the world has a lot of people. But a civilization that by default, does not want to produce children? (As Huxley envisioned, and as I think will be the case in the coming decades) is headed for sure collapse. Contraception and abortifacients have existed for millennia. People in the developed world are choosing not have children because of costs. Having children in the developing world is an investment that is paid back in the form of free labor, dowries and someone to care for you when you're elderly.
- jerf 7y ago
  "Contraception and abortifacients have existed for millennia." Yes, but not reliably (for contraception) or safely (for abortifacients), and by their nature, 80% reliable contraception is of dubious utility.
  - oska 7y ago
    > 80% reliable contraception is of dubious utility. You realise the quoted reliability rates are per year, not per act? For example, the withdrawal method (available to everyone, for all time) has a reliability rate of 78% for typical use and 96% for perfect use. [1] Obviously, even at 78% reliability over a year, that is of a great deal of utility. 78% of the time a woman whose partner practises withdrawal will not get pregnant over the course of a year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus

decebalus1 7y ago

I will probably go against the grain here but my inner tinfoil hat is telling me that the recent marijuana legalization is actually secretly run by the military industrial complex in order to silence dissent. Kind of the 'lithium in the water supply' thing.

drongoking 7y ago
Heh. Except it took forever for states to begin decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana, and it isn't legal at the Federal level yet.
- decebalus1 7y ago
  The more opposition you appear to have, the more people will fight for it. My theory is that (again, tinfoil hat) if the federal government really didn't want marijuana to be legal, it wouldn't have been. If they really cracked down on it on the ground in the states where it was tolerated (before getting legalized), it wouldn't be legal now. Unless we get another Vietnam, where the government fears that young folk is too woke/high to fight in a war, it would rather have them sedated than dissenting. Automation is growing, blue collar jobs are going away, not everyone invested in their white collar future, income inequality keeps growing, better have them baked rather that raising their fists.
dawg- 7y ago
Eh, I would doubt it seeing as how pot was the drug of choice for all the hippies during the biggest anti-war movement in our country's history
- decebalus1 7y ago
  we've reached a point where we can wage war with way WAY less people and way more taxpayer money so the number of folks who want to go to war or who support war doesn't really matter. The draft is an outdated concept. You'll always have people who want to go into the army for the welfare. Also, weed is much stronger today than it was in the '70s and now you have regular folks walking around secretly addicted to pot [0]. That was definitely not the case in the '70. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-addiction.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/opinion/sunday/marijuana-...

maverick2007 7y ago

The scariest thing in this article to me was buried at the end describing how many of these drugs can be found in the water supply (albeit in mostly trace amounts). Whether you want them or not, it seems like everyone is going to get these medications in trace amounts and who knows what they will do to our bodies over time. Is there anything that I as an average person can do to remove as many of these chemicals as I can? A special filter?

wincy 7y ago
You could get spring water for really cheap. It’s something like $30 a month. No idea if it actually has less pharmaceuticals in it though.
elil17 7y ago
Any activated carbon filter should do - these molecules are pretty big and will be caught by a Brita filter or similar. Faucet attachment systems are the most effective. https://nowtoronto.com/what-chemicals-do-brita-type-filters-remove-from-water/ https://nowtoronto.com/what-chemicals-do-brita-type-filters-...
Nasrudith 7y ago
Not worry about it. It is like trying to boost testerone or estrogen by the sex of your meat source - so hillariously ineffectual it is effectively mysticism.
refurb 7y ago
Why are you concerned? We’re able to detect pharmaceuticals in water at several levels of magnitude lower than any actual impact. We’re talking parts per trillion. I’d be more concerned about things like lead and other toxic metals.

usaidkamran007 7y ago

Just get it through

sreatyugr 7y ago

To anyone who like dystopian books I find that the most succinct of the early genre is Rose Macaulay's What Not. It's a little harder to parse then the others because it was written in world war 1. I think it's really interesting as the earliest example I've found of this kind of story telling.

arminiusreturns 7y ago

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's a brave new world... until you resist, then it's 1984.

darkFunction 7y ago

Soma became a reality and takes the form of constant distractions and serotonin hits delivered via our mobile devices and TV screens. It's the status notifications, the likes, the latest Netflix series, browsing Reddit in bed. It's pornography and follower counts. We consume the Soma until our pleasure receptors are fatigued then we sleep and repeat the process. Huxley was right and it has nothing to do with pills.

deleted 7y ago

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pennpaper 7y ago

Brave New World is one of my most favorite books. Ever. The scary thing about it is that reading you start to understand that although this might be a vision of the future, it really is just a replica of what is already going on. Pill popping has been happening for ages, especially for a happy-feeling reason.

leed25d 7y ago

So did William Burroughs, from a slightly different aspect.

Animats 7y ago

"They have given us Soma, and it is called Valium." Not quite. They have given us Soma, and it is called cannabis.

LessDmesg 7y ago

I've never taken anti-depressants and don't understand why so many people do. If you can't calm down your own mind, then you've got a problem no pill is going to solve - and the fact that people abuse these pills or keep taking them habitually proves this.

Nasrudith 7y ago
You don't understand depression or antidepressants period. Antidepressants typically take weeks to take effect and have a low efficency rate overall - the reason why so many are approved is because it is a matter of cycling through them to find one which is actually effective and without unacceptable side effects. The closest form of "abuse" aside from idiots who take any random substances to try to get high (in which case Mike & Ikes or kitchen spices also qualify because it is a matter of intent) is using them to try to make other withdrawal symptoms more tolerable which is far from mainstream even among burnt out addicts.
- mmjaa 7y ago
  Antidepressants are a belief system, and like most religions, have both their detractors and promoters. And, like most religions, there is money to be made ... Lots and lots of money. Antidepressants have the same efficacy as placebo. Whether or not you believe this depends on if you have a prescription, and/or have understood the studies which point this out.

smilbandit 7y ago

Aldous's pill popping from Brave New World isn't as interesting as what he said in his interview with Mike Wallace, https://youtu.be/alasBxZsb40 https://youtu.be/alasBxZsb40

mindfulgeek 7y ago
Thanks for sharing that link. What he’s saying here is very relevant today.

Melting_Harps 7y ago

Did anyone see this part in the article: Fentanyl wasn’t on offer, but agents kept following the digital trails that have made it easier for people like Muhammad and Yan to enter the global drug trade and for investigators to hunt them down. Because Yan used Gmail, operated by U.S.-based Google, Gibbons and his team could persuade a judge to let them monitor his communications in real time. FAANG is an extension of the US' Law Enforcement and Intelligence Agencies, in case anyone had any doubts. This is why they get so much funding from both respectively, and why they can get away with such egregious infractions and unlawful behaviour. Those of you dropping where you work should really have some reservations of what is taking place with your labour and in your name.