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Sidenote: I got my Librem 5 in the mail yesterday! Below is a video of unboxing. https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/55eece8c-2d6c-4da3-8c8c-895217d66e2a https

by bo1024 7y ago

Sidenote: I got my Librem 5 in the mail yesterday! Below is a video of unboxing. https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/55eece8c-2d6c-4da3-8c8c-895217d66e2a https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/55eece8c-2d6c-4da3-8c8c-... This prototype version is definitely not ready for mass market due to (1) known overheating issue (so far I've observed it get quite warm sometimes, but not uncomfortably hot), (2) a bunch little software things to work on. But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone, and know that the software updates are coming. Purism's accomplishment already is pretty incredible on both a hardware and software level. For me, well worth the price. Congrats to them even if there is a ways to go yet.

thekyle 7y ago
Good to see that backers are starting to receive theirs. I know there was some previous controversy over them only shipping to Purism employees.
- enriquto 7y ago
  just to be pedantic, she didn't say she's not a purism employee
ebg13 7y ago
> But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone Can't you do that on any other Android phone with terminal software installed?
- traverseda 7y ago
  Barely, although termux makes it a lot more reasonable. It's more a package management issue.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    You can run a full GNU/Linux distro, and apt-get install most stuff: https://f-droid.org/packages/tech.ula/ https://f-droid.org/packages/tech.ula/
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      If one roots the device. Modern Android has been locking down access to everything that isn't an NDK public API.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        Nope, no root required.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        So how does it work around the missing APIs not described here? https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis Given the changes started with Android 7 to block access to everything else? In fact, https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        Mathnerd314 7y ago
        It runs stuff in a container (PRoot) with standard Linux libraries and FHS layout, then you ssh or VNC in locally. The emulation isn't perfect due to Android's security policies, but close enough.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Standard Android does not support chroot, nor standard Linux libraries, hence why termux needs to patch them.
        imtringued 7y ago
        Try installing OpenJDK without root.
  - mike-cardwell 7y ago
    I installed Debian in a chroot on my HTC Desire Z in 2011, and proceeded to apt-get install exim on it to tinker.
  - gallexme 7y ago
    Theres also https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid-bootstrap https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid-bootstrap on fdroid for a good package manager
  - 0x38B 7y ago
    I can share to Termux from the YouTube app on my Pixel and download an entire playlist to my music folder - Ffmpeg handles any audio. It's quicker than any of the YouTube downloader apps I've tried! How it works: in ~/bin there's a termux-url-opener script that handles what you share: "#!/bin/bash case "$1" in *youtu*) echo "$1 is a YouTube URL, downloading" sh ~/shortcuts/dl_yt.sh $1 ..." (dl_yt just calls youtube-dl -x) I love it and am still finding new uses for Termux. I've got neovim and all my dotfiles loaded, so in a pinch I can ssh into my phone to do some work.
    - chronogram 7y ago
      Would it not be nicer to save a whole lot on bandwidth by using "youtube-dl -f bestaudio[ext=m4a]" instead of "youtube-dl -x"?
      - 0x38B 7y ago
        Good point! My command line looks like this: youtube-dl -f bestaudio -x --no-progress -o "~/storage/music/YouTube/%(title)s.%(ext)s" "$1" This generally gives me .opus files, which play OK but my player can't change the tags.
    - Ycros 7y ago
      Ah, nice to see I'm not the only one running youtube-dl on a phone via Termux.
- amelius 7y ago
  Not without the risk that the phone vendor, Google (or some Android hacker) is looking over your shoulder.
  - aeturnum 7y ago
    I mean, I like Purism, but that risks still exists with this phone. With any phone. The promise not to snoop is central to their business model and I have no reason to believe they would snoop, but certainly the capability is there.
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      Since everything is open, you could probably run your own builds and use your own update server. Or you can use their code as a starting point and port whatever Linux distribution you want to it, which is a lot easier than a locked down Android or iOS device. And since it's so easy to replace everything, they need to maintain the community's trust since everything is in the open. The best part is that I don't really need to trust Purism, I can choose to trust the community instead to whistleblow if Purism breaks the community's trust. Their target demographic is exactly the type that will be watching over their shoulder to make sure nothing fishy is going on.
    - amelius 7y ago
      As always, it boils down to trust. Which phone would you trust more for ssh-ing into your office computer? An Android phone filled with adware, which you don't even completely own? Or a phone that was designed for privacy and for which all important components are open source / open hardware?
      - ta0987 7y ago
        Office computer? Definitely Android. Google is like a feudal lord. In exchange for owning you, they'll protect you from everyone weaker than they are. Google doesn't want to break into your office computer as long as they can shovel ads down your throat. And their reputation for security is much higher than a small startup regardless of the startup's competence and intentions. See e.g. Project Zero or Chrome vulnerabilities vs Firefox.
- black_puppydog 7y ago
  not properly. android is about as full-blown a linux environment as that plastic router on which your ISP left the telnet open.
- Mathnerd314 7y ago
  Android has a tiny BusyBox clone (ToyBox IIRC) in the default installation that can be accessed over USB with the right commands. It isn't particularly useful for anything besides poking around, and definitely doesn't support SSH, but it does do ls and cd.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
3xblah 7y ago
"But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone..." Can you boot to a shell without starting GNOME?
- bo1024 7y ago
  I wouldn't rule it out but I don't know how to. I guess you would need a keyboard connected via USB to be able to input in that scenario
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    Wouldn't you just disable the display server like any other Linux OS? I'm sure they're using systems, so it just just be: > sudo systemctl disable phosh.service Or something like that. I'm sure it would be pretty easy with a bit of fiddling. However, you're right that you'd probably need a keyboard plugged in because the default TTY probably doesn't have a soft keyboard.
    - arminiusreturns 7y ago
      I use a Logitech K780 bluetooth keyboard when working on my phone, I got it mostly because of the nice phone/tablet standing slot, so there is that option as well.
  - curioussavage 7y ago
    I’m pretty sure one of the community members got an onscreen keyboard working for this use case
jchw 7y ago
Exciting to see it's real. I was getting very worried about the controversy, but it's beginning to fade away. I'm so fed up with software that tries to anticipate what I want. Computers running Linux do what you ask in spite of what you want, but phones running modern phone operating systems do what they think you want in spite of what you need. And that is deeply frustrating to power users. I guess now I just need to decide when to jump into this.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  I too am glad I didn't cancel my order. I'm sure my batch won't be out until probably late next year, but I do feel good about supporting a project like this.
dbeley 7y ago
> But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone, and know that the software updates are coming. It's strange that SailfishOS has not caught more marketshare on the hacker/tech enthusiast community, because it's (almost) everything people wants about Purism : you lose a bit in the free software and open hardware side, but you win in terms of price (used phone + 50$ license), availability and usability (Right now, it's the only alternative to Android and iOS I can safely recommend). If only Jolla devs had kept their promises of open-sourcing more of their code.
- grumdan 7y ago
  > If only Jolla devs had kept their promises of open-sourcing more of their code. I think that's a big part of the answer to why it hasn't caught among techies. When I tried using it (shortly after release), there were numerous issues in their default apps that nobody could fix because they are proprietary and Jolla didn't seem to have the resources to handle all the bugs. I'd wager that if it had been open source, the early adopters would have put some time in to fix a lot of the bugs. In retrospect I'm pretty pissed at them for not being honest and upholding their promises. In my book they're basically con artists that just tried to get the Linux community's money by saying "open source" without actually meaning it.
  - ryukafalz 7y ago
    This, along with Jolla's bankruptcy, is why I stopped using Sailfish as a former user. I didn't feel that I could depend on the platform sticking around. I later switched to Ubuntu Touch because, despite Canonical picking up the project, the community had continued maintaining it. They could do that because it was freely licensed; nobody could do that for Sailfish.
    - andrewflnr 7y ago
      What hardware are you running it on?
      - 7y ago
TheGrumpyBrit 7y ago
PeerTube.co.uk admin here. Your video alerted me to the fact that my view stats aren't working properly - I've had over 1000 visits today, usual is less than 100. Most of those have your video as the entry point, but those numbers aren't reflected on your view count. Thanks for being the first video that's been popular enough to highlight this!
- behnamoh 7y ago
  Yeah, but it stopped playing for me half way through the video, right when the number of peers dropped to 1.
  - TheGrumpyBrit 7y ago
    That's interesting, thanks for the heads up. I'll do a bit of experimenting to see if I can replicate with some less popular videos which aren't likely to have a redundant copy anywhere.
  - vunie 7y ago
    At 4 peers, the video played smoothly for me. Does peertube allow a way for people to "pin" a video they like so that they can permanently seed it to others?
    - TheGrumpyBrit 7y ago
      Sadly not. Seeding is entirely down to individual instances and their own redundancy policy. I suspect the issue is that PeerTube is getting a NAT IP instead of properly determining its own external IP, which is causing problems streaming when it tries to get back to the origin. I'm pretty sure it's a simple enough fix, I just need to take a look at it in the light of day.

by bo1024 7y ago

thekyle 7y ago

Good to see that backers are starting to receive theirs. I know there was some previous controversy over them only shipping to Purism employees.

enriquto 7y ago
just to be pedantic, she didn't say she's not a purism employee

ebg13 7y ago

> But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone Can't you do that on any other Android phone with terminal software installed?

traverseda 7y ago
Barely, although termux makes it a lot more reasonable. It's more a package management issue.
- icebraining 7y ago
  You can run a full GNU/Linux distro, and apt-get install most stuff: https://f-droid.org/packages/tech.ula/ https://f-droid.org/packages/tech.ula/
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    If one roots the device. Modern Android has been locking down access to everything that isn't an NDK public API.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      Nope, no root required.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        So how does it work around the missing APIs not described here? https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis Given the changes started with Android 7 to block access to everything else? In fact, https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        Mathnerd314 7y ago
        It runs stuff in a container (PRoot) with standard Linux libraries and FHS layout, then you ssh or VNC in locally. The emulation isn't perfect due to Android's security policies, but close enough.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Standard Android does not support chroot, nor standard Linux libraries, hence why termux needs to patch them.
      - imtringued 7y ago
        Try installing OpenJDK without root.
- mike-cardwell 7y ago
  I installed Debian in a chroot on my HTC Desire Z in 2011, and proceeded to apt-get install exim on it to tinker.
- gallexme 7y ago
  Theres also https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid-bootstrap https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid-bootstrap on fdroid for a good package manager
- 0x38B 7y ago
  I can share to Termux from the YouTube app on my Pixel and download an entire playlist to my music folder - Ffmpeg handles any audio. It's quicker than any of the YouTube downloader apps I've tried! How it works: in ~/bin there's a termux-url-opener script that handles what you share: "#!/bin/bash case "$1" in *youtu*) echo "$1 is a YouTube URL, downloading" sh ~/shortcuts/dl_yt.sh $1 ..." (dl_yt just calls youtube-dl -x) I love it and am still finding new uses for Termux. I've got neovim and all my dotfiles loaded, so in a pinch I can ssh into my phone to do some work.
  - chronogram 7y ago
    Would it not be nicer to save a whole lot on bandwidth by using "youtube-dl -f bestaudio[ext=m4a]" instead of "youtube-dl -x"?
    - 0x38B 7y ago
      Good point! My command line looks like this: youtube-dl -f bestaudio -x --no-progress -o "~/storage/music/YouTube/%(title)s.%(ext)s" "$1" This generally gives me .opus files, which play OK but my player can't change the tags.
  - Ycros 7y ago
    Ah, nice to see I'm not the only one running youtube-dl on a phone via Termux.
amelius 7y ago
Not without the risk that the phone vendor, Google (or some Android hacker) is looking over your shoulder.
- aeturnum 7y ago
  I mean, I like Purism, but that risks still exists with this phone. With any phone. The promise not to snoop is central to their business model and I have no reason to believe they would snoop, but certainly the capability is there.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    Since everything is open, you could probably run your own builds and use your own update server. Or you can use their code as a starting point and port whatever Linux distribution you want to it, which is a lot easier than a locked down Android or iOS device. And since it's so easy to replace everything, they need to maintain the community's trust since everything is in the open. The best part is that I don't really need to trust Purism, I can choose to trust the community instead to whistleblow if Purism breaks the community's trust. Their target demographic is exactly the type that will be watching over their shoulder to make sure nothing fishy is going on.
  - amelius 7y ago
    As always, it boils down to trust. Which phone would you trust more for ssh-ing into your office computer? An Android phone filled with adware, which you don't even completely own? Or a phone that was designed for privacy and for which all important components are open source / open hardware?
    - ta0987 7y ago
      Office computer? Definitely Android. Google is like a feudal lord. In exchange for owning you, they'll protect you from everyone weaker than they are. Google doesn't want to break into your office computer as long as they can shovel ads down your throat. And their reputation for security is much higher than a small startup regardless of the startup's competence and intentions. See e.g. Project Zero or Chrome vulnerabilities vs Firefox.
black_puppydog 7y ago
not properly. android is about as full-blown a linux environment as that plastic router on which your ISP left the telnet open.
Mathnerd314 7y ago
Android has a tiny BusyBox clone (ToyBox IIRC) in the default installation that can be accessed over USB with the right commands. It isn't particularly useful for anything besides poking around, and definitely doesn't support SSH, but it does do ls and cd.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

3xblah 7y ago

"But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone..." Can you boot to a shell without starting GNOME?

bo1024 7y ago
I wouldn't rule it out but I don't know how to. I guess you would need a keyboard connected via USB to be able to input in that scenario
- beatgammit 7y ago
  Wouldn't you just disable the display server like any other Linux OS? I'm sure they're using systems, so it just just be: > sudo systemctl disable phosh.service Or something like that. I'm sure it would be pretty easy with a bit of fiddling. However, you're right that you'd probably need a keyboard plugged in because the default TTY probably doesn't have a soft keyboard.
  - arminiusreturns 7y ago
    I use a Logitech K780 bluetooth keyboard when working on my phone, I got it mostly because of the nice phone/tablet standing slot, so there is that option as well.
- curioussavage 7y ago
  I’m pretty sure one of the community members got an onscreen keyboard working for this use case

jchw 7y ago

Exciting to see it's real. I was getting very worried about the controversy, but it's beginning to fade away. I'm so fed up with software that tries to anticipate what I want. Computers running Linux do what you ask in spite of what you want, but phones running modern phone operating systems do what they think you want in spite of what you need. And that is deeply frustrating to power users. I guess now I just need to decide when to jump into this.

djsumdog 7y ago
I too am glad I didn't cancel my order. I'm sure my batch won't be out until probably late next year, but I do feel good about supporting a project like this.

dbeley 7y ago

> But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone, and know that the software updates are coming. It's strange that SailfishOS has not caught more marketshare on the hacker/tech enthusiast community, because it's (almost) everything people wants about Purism : you lose a bit in the free software and open hardware side, but you win in terms of price (used phone + 50$ license), availability and usability (Right now, it's the only alternative to Android and iOS I can safely recommend). If only Jolla devs had kept their promises of open-sourcing more of their code.

grumdan 7y ago
> If only Jolla devs had kept their promises of open-sourcing more of their code. I think that's a big part of the answer to why it hasn't caught among techies. When I tried using it (shortly after release), there were numerous issues in their default apps that nobody could fix because they are proprietary and Jolla didn't seem to have the resources to handle all the bugs. I'd wager that if it had been open source, the early adopters would have put some time in to fix a lot of the bugs. In retrospect I'm pretty pissed at them for not being honest and upholding their promises. In my book they're basically con artists that just tried to get the Linux community's money by saying "open source" without actually meaning it.
- ryukafalz 7y ago
  This, along with Jolla's bankruptcy, is why I stopped using Sailfish as a former user. I didn't feel that I could depend on the platform sticking around. I later switched to Ubuntu Touch because, despite Canonical picking up the project, the community had continued maintaining it. They could do that because it was freely licensed; nobody could do that for Sailfish.
  - andrewflnr 7y ago
    What hardware are you running it on?
    - 7y ago

TheGrumpyBrit 7y ago

PeerTube.co.uk admin here. Your video alerted me to the fact that my view stats aren't working properly - I've had over 1000 visits today, usual is less than 100. Most of those have your video as the entry point, but those numbers aren't reflected on your view count. Thanks for being the first video that's been popular enough to highlight this!

behnamoh 7y ago
Yeah, but it stopped playing for me half way through the video, right when the number of peers dropped to 1.
- TheGrumpyBrit 7y ago
  That's interesting, thanks for the heads up. I'll do a bit of experimenting to see if I can replicate with some less popular videos which aren't likely to have a redundant copy anywhere.
- vunie 7y ago
  At 4 peers, the video played smoothly for me. Does peertube allow a way for people to "pin" a video they like so that they can permanently seed it to others?
  - TheGrumpyBrit 7y ago
    Sadly not. Seeding is entirely down to individual instances and their own redundancy policy. I suspect the issue is that PeerTube is getting a NAT IP instead of properly determining its own external IP, which is causing problems streaming when it tries to get back to the origin. I'm pretty sure it's a simple enough fix, I just need to take a look at it in the light of day.