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"Every moment a new JavaScript framework borns here and there, so here is mine." That is what should be written on the page, to be honest. And not even the clai

by koehr 7y ago

"Every moment a new JavaScript framework borns here and there, so here is mine." That is what should be written on the page, to be honest. And not even the claim, that it lets you do everything without writing any JavaScript is not true because you simply move your JavaScript into the DOM node attributes. I think this is pretty much a step backwards towards in-page PHP or some XML logic parsing. Thanks for trying though. The fatigue is real.

core-questions 7y ago
> a step backwards towards in-page PHP In-page PHP is ugly, but it sure let normal people who had gotten comfortable with serving static HTML make dynamic web pages quickly. It's also highly performant.
- aylmao 7y ago
  Lee Bryon had a fantastic talk about this during the last React Conf, check it out [1]. He talks about the cyclic nature of programming paradigms, and how we might actually be "going back to PHP" and that might not necessarily be a bad thing. PHP does after all have a straightforward mental model and expressive syntax, but now we have learned to build better (more secure, more resilient, performant, better architected, etc) web apps. IMO very worth a watch. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8WpLr6y_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8WpLr6y_U
  - bhhaskin 7y ago
    I would argue that we have never left PHP. WordPress powers 34% of the web. It's fast and flexible, and modern PHP is actually a delight to work in. It's also pretty secure. You have to go out of your way to make it insecure. Which is an issue with any programming language.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  > In-page PHP is ugly Why? Although I agree PHP itself is ugly, I always considered this particular part beautiful and alone worth tolerating the rest.
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    I don’t think there’s anything but in-page PHP. Some files are just skipping the HTML altogether.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
moron4hire 7y ago
> The fatigue is real. Oh, get over yourself. Whatever "fatigue" you are feeling is completely of your own choice. Other people aren't beholden to you for their desire to make things. I cannot express strongly enough how much I hate comments like this. Go live in a utilitarian dystopia if you hate people making new things so much.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  It's not just the parent poster, it's many people. The fatigue is real. If we have solutions today that meet all business needs, why do we new frameworks? Good ideas should stand the test of time. I don't think we've got a real discernible reason for why React or Vue are becoming stale or too rigid.
  - moron4hire 7y ago
    Repeating a meme over and over again doesn't make it true, it just makes you a robot. You choose to look at things like this and feel fatigue. Nobody forced to to look at it. Nobody told you "that's it, start retaining now". You have a fundamental fear of missing out that, instead of addressing the fear and feeling secure in your own choices, you feel necessary to externalize as criticism towards people exercising their own free will. React existing or not existing or being old or not being old is not a reason for others to not do the work they want to do.
    - tomtheelder 7y ago
      I think you've got this a bit backwards. It's not that people _feel_ that they need to retain information on every shiny new thing, it's that they _have actually had_ to retain information on an overwhelming number of new shiny things for professional reasons. As a consequence, there is a tiredness and skepticism about new things. It's not that people feel that it's necessary to retain, it's that people enjoy learning about new options, but find that their lived experience has given them a resistance to that which they might otherwise enjoy. They approach new things with interest, but end up frustrated to find more of the same. Also you can't just tell people to not feel things! That's not how emotions work!
dragonwriter 7y ago
> "Every moment a new JavaScript framework borns here and there, so here is mine." That is what should be written on the page, to be honest. It's not, both because it's incoherent English, and because it doesn't tell us what distinguishes this framework within the space of new frameworks. > I think this is pretty much a step backwards towards in-page PHP or some XML logic parsing. I'm not sure why programming code embedded in HTML is substantially worse than the reverse (e.g., JSX). We're mixing syntax and concerns either way.
- pdonis 7y ago
  > it doesn't tell us what distinguishes this framework within the space of new frameworks. Neither does "The main problem with all those frameworks is JavaScript".
blondin 7y ago
same. author quickly lost me when i found these usual suspects in the repo: .babelrc, Gruntfile.js, package.json, package-lock.json, etc... the fundamental premise still holds. we need to go back to roots and improve on HTML.
- guseyn 7y ago
  This lib allows you not to write js, it's just based on it.
guseyn 7y ago
https://github.com/Guseyn/EHTML#answers-for-potential-testimonials https://github.com/Guseyn/EHTML#answers-for-potential-testim...

by koehr 7y ago

core-questions 7y ago

> a step backwards towards in-page PHP In-page PHP is ugly, but it sure let normal people who had gotten comfortable with serving static HTML make dynamic web pages quickly. It's also highly performant.

aylmao 7y ago
Lee Bryon had a fantastic talk about this during the last React Conf, check it out [1]. He talks about the cyclic nature of programming paradigms, and how we might actually be "going back to PHP" and that might not necessarily be a bad thing. PHP does after all have a straightforward mental model and expressive syntax, but now we have learned to build better (more secure, more resilient, performant, better architected, etc) web apps. IMO very worth a watch. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8WpLr6y_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8WpLr6y_U
- bhhaskin 7y ago
  I would argue that we have never left PHP. WordPress powers 34% of the web. It's fast and flexible, and modern PHP is actually a delight to work in. It's also pretty secure. You have to go out of your way to make it insecure. Which is an issue with any programming language.
qwerty456127 7y ago
> In-page PHP is ugly Why? Although I agree PHP itself is ugly, I always considered this particular part beautiful and alone worth tolerating the rest.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  I don’t think there’s anything but in-page PHP. Some files are just skipping the HTML altogether.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

moron4hire 7y ago

> The fatigue is real. Oh, get over yourself. Whatever "fatigue" you are feeling is completely of your own choice. Other people aren't beholden to you for their desire to make things. I cannot express strongly enough how much I hate comments like this. Go live in a utilitarian dystopia if you hate people making new things so much.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
It's not just the parent poster, it's many people. The fatigue is real. If we have solutions today that meet all business needs, why do we new frameworks? Good ideas should stand the test of time. I don't think we've got a real discernible reason for why React or Vue are becoming stale or too rigid.
- moron4hire 7y ago
  Repeating a meme over and over again doesn't make it true, it just makes you a robot. You choose to look at things like this and feel fatigue. Nobody forced to to look at it. Nobody told you "that's it, start retaining now". You have a fundamental fear of missing out that, instead of addressing the fear and feeling secure in your own choices, you feel necessary to externalize as criticism towards people exercising their own free will. React existing or not existing or being old or not being old is not a reason for others to not do the work they want to do.
  - tomtheelder 7y ago
    I think you've got this a bit backwards. It's not that people _feel_ that they need to retain information on every shiny new thing, it's that they _have actually had_ to retain information on an overwhelming number of new shiny things for professional reasons. As a consequence, there is a tiredness and skepticism about new things. It's not that people feel that it's necessary to retain, it's that people enjoy learning about new options, but find that their lived experience has given them a resistance to that which they might otherwise enjoy. They approach new things with interest, but end up frustrated to find more of the same. Also you can't just tell people to not feel things! That's not how emotions work!

dragonwriter 7y ago

> "Every moment a new JavaScript framework borns here and there, so here is mine." That is what should be written on the page, to be honest. It's not, both because it's incoherent English, and because it doesn't tell us what distinguishes this framework within the space of new frameworks. > I think this is pretty much a step backwards towards in-page PHP or some XML logic parsing. I'm not sure why programming code embedded in HTML is substantially worse than the reverse (e.g., JSX). We're mixing syntax and concerns either way.

pdonis 7y ago
> it doesn't tell us what distinguishes this framework within the space of new frameworks. Neither does "The main problem with all those frameworks is JavaScript".

blondin 7y ago

same. author quickly lost me when i found these usual suspects in the repo: .babelrc, Gruntfile.js, package.json, package-lock.json, etc... the fundamental premise still holds. we need to go back to roots and improve on HTML.

guseyn 7y ago
This lib allows you not to write js, it's just based on it.

guseyn 7y ago

https://github.com/Guseyn/EHTML#answers-for-potential-testimonials https://github.com/Guseyn/EHTML#answers-for-potential-testim...