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The only thing remotely surprising here is that they lasted this long. It was frankly idiotic of them to have it there in the first place. No one is happy to sp

The only thing remotely surprising here is that they lasted this long. It was frankly idiotic of them to have it there in the first place. No one is happy to spend $80 on a replacement MagSafe charger because the previous one frayed, so of course the listing was marred by 1-star reviews. The community Q&A also tends to be garbage. I understand that the average consumer is not going to have the same level of technical knowledge, and so I don't fault them for asking the questions. But it seems very strange that Apple allows their product page to be polluted by often confused questions, and also allows random people to answer those questions instead of qualified salespeople.

xhkkffbf 7y ago
I understand your point. Still, I think that these reviews were helpful to Apple by collecting the bitching in one central location. It kept the product team on their game. Of course at some point, people stop trusting reviews in general and so maybe it's time to moveon.
- killjoywashere 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure the product teams have access to Amazon reviews.
- pastor_elm 7y ago
  Many of Apple accessories are designed to fail. Fewer stars probably gets product higher year end bonuses.
  - sockgrant 7y ago
    You got a source for that?
    - pastor_elm 7y ago
      Yes, the lightning to 3.5mm adaptor. Just look at it.
      - jmole 7y ago
        I wouldn't say that it's designed to fail - but it's clearly not designed to last. It does seem like, with Ive's departure, that Apple may start to make their accessories (and cables, hopefully) as long-lasting as their products.
        jjoonathan 7y ago
        Apple badly needs a post-Ive strain relief philosophy.
        threeseed 7y ago
        And people need to stop thinking that Ive was responsible for every design decision. They have a hardware engineering team who are far more culpable.
        erichocean 7y ago
        Have you spent any time working at Apple? Because that's not even remotely how things work. Designers are minor deities at Apple; engineering is a remote 2nd.
        nsxwolf 7y ago
        I just can't see them making those ugly ribbed strain reliefs that everyone else uses.
droithomme 7y ago
There's definitely been tons of completely legitimate, justified, and useful bad reviews for bad products. Usually those reviews just get deleted. I guess the effort to pay staff to constantly delete Noahic deluge sized floods of legitimate honest and sincere bad reviews from actual purchasers was deemed not worth the effort and the reviewers can be dismissed to a Siberian Gulag for their thoughtcrimes of accurate evaluation. Welcome to Happytown where every product is perfect and there is no dissent.
- jmull 7y ago
  The Apple store reviews were mostly unhelpful 1-star reviews. Apple didn't seem to be removing any of it. You should share the source of your accusations.
  - droithomme 7y ago
    Sure just go to the Ratings & Review section on Apple's site and browse there to your heart's content.
    - jmull 7y ago
      You made the claim that "Usually those reviews just get deleted", referring to bad reviews. You made further comments suggesting that Apple sanitized the reviews. But that does not appear to have been be true. As you say yourself, there were tons of bad reviews all over the place.
Ensorceled 7y ago
Worse, many reviews were not about the product, but around Apple design decisions. Yes, I know everybody hates only having USB-C ports, but does this USB-C to xyx thingy work? The worst about the Q&A section is seeing that your bug has been around since the Big Cat years and there is still no fix or answers, just a few thousand "I also have this issue"
- musicale 7y ago
  There is something there. I think it's good to give customers a voice, and I think it's fine for Apple to ignore them as it often does. Apple loves to move forward and drop support for legacy technology (USB A and 32-bit apps being two recent examples) but this inconveniences users and they tend to scream loudly. You're absolutely right about the Q&A, and Apple isn't remotely transparent regarding bug reports. They also tend to prioritize new bugs over longstanding issues. Will it get fixed, ever? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on which way the Apple winds blow. However if it's more than a few years old often the answer is "probably never."
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
derefr 7y ago
I think whoever originally architected the Apple Store website assumed that, because the Store carried a few third-party products on it alongside Apple's, it would end up evolving into a full marketplace where people would comparison-shop between different third-party offerings of the same product. In such a use-case, reviews and ratings would be useful. Of course, that didn't wind up happening; the Apple Store website has basically exactly one product in each product category, with that product being a third-party one only if Apple themselves don't make a product for that category. There's no comparison-shopping to be had, and so no justification for reviews or ratings.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Now there I can't agree. If I were a first time potential Apple buyer, outside the Apple bubble, I would absolutely want to know if Apple's own charger has a cheap cable that frays, or a video dongle can't handle certain common modes, or something is simply crap. Comparison with a third party doesn't enter into it. It might even help get a feel for how common an issue some site's major news piece actually is. Likewise a 2017 Macbook Pro attracting lots of negative reviews because Apple forgot how to make a keyboard resilient enough to outlast a warranty are equally legitimate. Pulling them to present an "all is lovely in Apple World" view is incredibly buyer hostile. Even if many remain that are irrelevant complaints and misunderstandings - where there should be some effort to clean up, there is legitimate need for ungamed, unsanitised reviews and ratings.
  - core-questions 7y ago
    > I would absolutely want to know if Apple's own charger has a cheap cable that frays Of course, but why would Apple want you to know that before you shell out the cash? > "all is lovely in Apple World" view is incredibly buyer hostile They're laughing all the way to the bank.
    - harry8 7y ago
      Because now everyone can refer to Appke as dishonest and be exactly correct. "Don't believe apple's lies, their quality is awful, they know it and lie about it. Pulled all the reviews from their customers who found that out at their own cost." Difficult for Apple to argue with that without looking even worse. Sometimes being honest about your faults enhances both your reputation for integrity and quality. Honesty really can be your most profitable policy. Especially when you charge a premium for quality. Apple are a huge tech company. Apple are being very arrogant. Historically that has been a time to sell.
OrgNet 7y ago
> It was frankly idiotic of them to have it there in the first place. exactly, you have to be stupid to buy apple products...
musicale 7y ago
> No one is happy to spend $80 on a replacement MagSafe charger because the previous one frayed, so of course the listing was marred by 1-star reviews As an Apple user, I would suggest that is a legitimate complaint, as the cable cannot be replaced separately from the power brick. Fortunately when that happened to me (twice) and I brought it into an Apple store, Apple replaced the entire power adapter even though it was out of warranty.
- gowld 7y ago
  Electrical tape also fixes a fraying charger.
  - semiotagonal 7y ago
    Every laptop should ship with a charger and a roll of electrical tape.
  - richardhod 7y ago
    I think that's beside the point. if you're going to spend that much for a charger and cable that should be really well designed and last a long time. Electrical tape leaves sticky residue quite easily and is pretty horrible after a not very long time.
  - rasz 7y ago
    sure https://macdailynews.com/2018/03/06/family-seeks-600000-from-apple-blames-iphone-charging-cable-for-sparking-fire-that-destroyed-house/ https://macdailynews.com/2018/03/06/family-seeks-600000-from...
  - asdff 7y ago
    To a point. Electrical tape doesn't do anything for a cable that is pulled 1/8" out of the brick and ruined internally (what has ultimately killed my 'zebra' taped up magsafe chargers).
- dangus 7y ago
  And yet other Apple users complained about Apple moving to an open standard (USB-C) with replaceable, standard cables and a charging standard that allows for safe usage of 3rd party alternatives. But those particular users were upset because they lost the magnetic nature of MagSafe. When you are as big and successful as Apple, literally any decision will meet some form of backlash.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
raxxorrax 7y ago
I agree that this is not a good reason to give a 1-star review, but it still conveys information to me as a potential buyer. Are there more of these reviews, is the device prone to failure? They pose a problem for a low number of reviews, but with enough of them it can indeed be a valuable metric. You have to know how to read it though.
Semaphor 7y ago
Community Q&A always feels like bad satire to me: Customer q: how do I do X? Customer a: sorry, I don't know. At least on Amazon Germany this pattern is extremely common.
- y4mi 7y ago
  thats caused by amazon mailing random people that bought the article when a question is asked with a message like "xyz asked a question to << article >> you bought some time ago; << question >>" these people use the reply function of their email client and send back "i dont know" ... which makes amazon append this answer to the question.
  - Semaphor 7y ago
    Seriously? I never got such a mail, but that seems like as horrible an idea as it turned out to be…

xhkkffbf 7y ago

I understand your point. Still, I think that these reviews were helpful to Apple by collecting the bitching in one central location. It kept the product team on their game. Of course at some point, people stop trusting reviews in general and so maybe it's time to moveon.

killjoywashere 7y ago
I'm pretty sure the product teams have access to Amazon reviews.
pastor_elm 7y ago
Many of Apple accessories are designed to fail. Fewer stars probably gets product higher year end bonuses.
- sockgrant 7y ago
  You got a source for that?
  - pastor_elm 7y ago
    Yes, the lightning to 3.5mm adaptor. Just look at it.
    - jmole 7y ago
      I wouldn't say that it's designed to fail - but it's clearly not designed to last. It does seem like, with Ive's departure, that Apple may start to make their accessories (and cables, hopefully) as long-lasting as their products.
      - jjoonathan 7y ago
        Apple badly needs a post-Ive strain relief philosophy.
        threeseed 7y ago
        And people need to stop thinking that Ive was responsible for every design decision. They have a hardware engineering team who are far more culpable.
        erichocean 7y ago
        Have you spent any time working at Apple? Because that's not even remotely how things work. Designers are minor deities at Apple; engineering is a remote 2nd.
        nsxwolf 7y ago
        I just can't see them making those ugly ribbed strain reliefs that everyone else uses.

droithomme 7y ago

There's definitely been tons of completely legitimate, justified, and useful bad reviews for bad products. Usually those reviews just get deleted. I guess the effort to pay staff to constantly delete Noahic deluge sized floods of legitimate honest and sincere bad reviews from actual purchasers was deemed not worth the effort and the reviewers can be dismissed to a Siberian Gulag for their thoughtcrimes of accurate evaluation. Welcome to Happytown where every product is perfect and there is no dissent.

jmull 7y ago
The Apple store reviews were mostly unhelpful 1-star reviews. Apple didn't seem to be removing any of it. You should share the source of your accusations.
- droithomme 7y ago
  Sure just go to the Ratings & Review section on Apple's site and browse there to your heart's content.
  - jmull 7y ago
    You made the claim that "Usually those reviews just get deleted", referring to bad reviews. You made further comments suggesting that Apple sanitized the reviews. But that does not appear to have been be true. As you say yourself, there were tons of bad reviews all over the place.

Ensorceled 7y ago

Worse, many reviews were not about the product, but around Apple design decisions. Yes, I know everybody hates only having USB-C ports, but does this USB-C to xyx thingy work? The worst about the Q&A section is seeing that your bug has been around since the Big Cat years and there is still no fix or answers, just a few thousand "I also have this issue"

musicale 7y ago
There is something there. I think it's good to give customers a voice, and I think it's fine for Apple to ignore them as it often does. Apple loves to move forward and drop support for legacy technology (USB A and 32-bit apps being two recent examples) but this inconveniences users and they tend to scream loudly. You're absolutely right about the Q&A, and Apple isn't remotely transparent regarding bug reports. They also tend to prioritize new bugs over longstanding issues. Will it get fixed, ever? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on which way the Apple winds blow. However if it's more than a few years old often the answer is "probably never."
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

derefr 7y ago

I think whoever originally architected the Apple Store website assumed that, because the Store carried a few third-party products on it alongside Apple's, it would end up evolving into a full marketplace where people would comparison-shop between different third-party offerings of the same product. In such a use-case, reviews and ratings would be useful. Of course, that didn't wind up happening; the Apple Store website has basically exactly one product in each product category, with that product being a third-party one only if Apple themselves don't make a product for that category. There's no comparison-shopping to be had, and so no justification for reviews or ratings.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Now there I can't agree. If I were a first time potential Apple buyer, outside the Apple bubble, I would absolutely want to know if Apple's own charger has a cheap cable that frays, or a video dongle can't handle certain common modes, or something is simply crap. Comparison with a third party doesn't enter into it. It might even help get a feel for how common an issue some site's major news piece actually is. Likewise a 2017 Macbook Pro attracting lots of negative reviews because Apple forgot how to make a keyboard resilient enough to outlast a warranty are equally legitimate. Pulling them to present an "all is lovely in Apple World" view is incredibly buyer hostile. Even if many remain that are irrelevant complaints and misunderstandings - where there should be some effort to clean up, there is legitimate need for ungamed, unsanitised reviews and ratings.
- core-questions 7y ago
  > I would absolutely want to know if Apple's own charger has a cheap cable that frays Of course, but why would Apple want you to know that before you shell out the cash? > "all is lovely in Apple World" view is incredibly buyer hostile They're laughing all the way to the bank.
  - harry8 7y ago
    Because now everyone can refer to Appke as dishonest and be exactly correct. "Don't believe apple's lies, their quality is awful, they know it and lie about it. Pulled all the reviews from their customers who found that out at their own cost." Difficult for Apple to argue with that without looking even worse. Sometimes being honest about your faults enhances both your reputation for integrity and quality. Honesty really can be your most profitable policy. Especially when you charge a premium for quality. Apple are a huge tech company. Apple are being very arrogant. Historically that has been a time to sell.

OrgNet 7y ago

> It was frankly idiotic of them to have it there in the first place. exactly, you have to be stupid to buy apple products...

musicale 7y ago

> No one is happy to spend $80 on a replacement MagSafe charger because the previous one frayed, so of course the listing was marred by 1-star reviews As an Apple user, I would suggest that is a legitimate complaint, as the cable cannot be replaced separately from the power brick. Fortunately when that happened to me (twice) and I brought it into an Apple store, Apple replaced the entire power adapter even though it was out of warranty.

gowld 7y ago
Electrical tape also fixes a fraying charger.
- semiotagonal 7y ago
  Every laptop should ship with a charger and a roll of electrical tape.
- richardhod 7y ago
  I think that's beside the point. if you're going to spend that much for a charger and cable that should be really well designed and last a long time. Electrical tape leaves sticky residue quite easily and is pretty horrible after a not very long time.
- rasz 7y ago
  sure https://macdailynews.com/2018/03/06/family-seeks-600000-from-apple-blames-iphone-charging-cable-for-sparking-fire-that-destroyed-house/ https://macdailynews.com/2018/03/06/family-seeks-600000-from...
- asdff 7y ago
  To a point. Electrical tape doesn't do anything for a cable that is pulled 1/8" out of the brick and ruined internally (what has ultimately killed my 'zebra' taped up magsafe chargers).
dangus 7y ago
And yet other Apple users complained about Apple moving to an open standard (USB-C) with replaceable, standard cables and a charging standard that allows for safe usage of 3rd party alternatives. But those particular users were upset because they lost the magnetic nature of MagSafe. When you are as big and successful as Apple, literally any decision will meet some form of backlash.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

raxxorrax 7y ago

I agree that this is not a good reason to give a 1-star review, but it still conveys information to me as a potential buyer. Are there more of these reviews, is the device prone to failure? They pose a problem for a low number of reviews, but with enough of them it can indeed be a valuable metric. You have to know how to read it though.

Semaphor 7y ago

Community Q&A always feels like bad satire to me: Customer q: how do I do X? Customer a: sorry, I don't know. At least on Amazon Germany this pattern is extremely common.

y4mi 7y ago
thats caused by amazon mailing random people that bought the article when a question is asked with a message like "xyz asked a question to << article >> you bought some time ago; << question >>" these people use the reply function of their email client and send back "i dont know" ... which makes amazon append this answer to the question.
- Semaphor 7y ago
  Seriously? I never got such a mail, but that seems like as horrible an idea as it turned out to be…