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In the US I can read any English source, both ones from China and ones from US/UK media. I read that the CCP imprisoned approximately one million Uighurs in con

In the US I can read any English source, both ones from China and ones from US/UK media. I read that the CCP imprisoned approximately one million Uighurs in concentration camps in Xinjiang, where they are being held indefinitely without due process, and there are reports of physical torture (waterboarding and tiger chair), rape, and occasional killings. I also read from CCP's point of view that this started because there were some terrorist knife attacks in 2014. So I can get both sides' point of views. But after reading both sides, my conclusion is that even if 10,000 people are guilty it does not justify a Holocaust-scale genocide of one million Uighurs, where the overwhelming majority are innocent and did not participate or condone the terrorists. There is no difference between the logic of those perpetrating the genocide in Xinjiang and the logic of Hitler during WWII.

Aperocky 7y ago
You’re right and entirely sideway to my point, which is that narrative pushing are not just from one side alone.
- perennate 7y ago
  Let's consider a hypothetical scenario similar to the one you put forward then. Suppose the US government conducts mass imprisonment of a certain population in concentration camps, like CCP is doing to Uighurs in Xinjiang. Well, it's not hypothetical, we already did it during WWII to Americans of Japanese ethnicity. And newspapers across the US spoke up against this atrocity [1]. Contrast that with China where the newspapers are forced to push the government's narrative, and invariably focus on the terrorism in 2014 that sparked the CCP's disproportional response rather than the barbaric violence perpetrated by the CCP. The US government has formally apologized for the atrocities in the concentration camps where Japanese-Americans were held, and paid reparations ($42K per camp survivor in current USD). We vowed never to do something so horrible again. But in 2019 China is still playing with mass forced incarceration, and they even have the gall to call it a model for combating violence that other countries should follow. The CCP has replaced the Japanese empire in abusing their own population (but I think some in China are racist and view Uighurs as not part of the Chinese people, just like how Nazi Germany viewed the Jewish people, and how some in US during WW2 viewed Japanese-Americans). [1] https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-internment-camps-during-world-war-ii.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-in...
  - DarthGhandi 7y ago
    > Suppose the US government conducts mass imprisonment of a certain population I'd argue that's not hypothetical at all, even with Xinjiang the US has by far the highest rate of imprisonment on the planet both of adults and children. Most are black. Vast majority are not violent crimes. It's entirely out of step with the rest of the developed world.
    - tw04 7y ago
      Ah, yes. Because someone convicted of a crime going to jail is the same thing as someone being sent to a camp due to their religion. Equating the issues in the US justice system to concentration camps is ridiculous.
      - imtringued 7y ago
        The definition of "crime" in the USA was carefully chosen to primarily target undesirable races.
      - DarthGhandi 7y ago
        Ah yes, my mistake, you only lock up convicted criminals, let's review that claim for a moment. Here's a visual: https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/uKLej0KwcfGN583uqvyfQN591-k=/767x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/YRMTT4ITBY5V5NJS2JC6NPSS54.png https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/uKLej0KwcfGN583uqvyfQ... Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics I've noticed a massive apathy amongst Chinese towards Xinjiang, the vast majority don't care and think they deserve it. Perhaps you have a lot more in common than you think. Both countries have horrendous records and many from there feel not the slightest bit of shame about it.
        dailiangren 7y ago
        I grew up in Jiangsu province of China. I heard some very nice stories about people in Xinjiang from my neighbours who had worked in Xinjiang for some time. I also heard some very bad stories about certain group of people from Xinjiang. It's hard to agree with you that 'a massive apathy amongst Chinese towards Xinjiang' --- as an ordinary Chinese, I want a peaceful country, and no terrorists, and I love diversity.
numismatex 7y ago
"some terrorist knife attacks in 2014" -- you mean the Turkestan Liberation Movement, which has been going on for 140 years, which has ties to ISIS, which organized on Facebook (one major reason FB is banned, they refused to take action against the terrorists). Something like 60-70 dead is "some". There's no genocide going on. Nor is there any British nor US-style response to the Hong Kong terrorists. Polling the folks in Xinjiang, they found that the culture was repressive, divisive and anti-China. Hence the reeducation due to crazy ideology. Just like the crazy Falun Gong people, believing they were growing beings in their arms, legs and other parts of their bodies with "Energy Techniques". China's not big on extremists and crazies. See, the majority of China are pretty innocent people, and can be swayed and sucked in by cults and religions. That's why the government steps on them "with no mercy". There's a huge difference in between the Nazis and the Chinese. You just refuse to see it because you don't have the background and education for it. Talk to some people who were around in World War II along with those in Afghanistan and see what they have to say about Nazis and Islamic Extremists. Though they might censor it to be politik these days. China is about Unity, with the head of the family being State. Division isn't welcome. Cults aren't welcome. Religious movements are welcome in designated areas. "House Churches", "Private Priests" and "Private Imams" aren't welcome. Just like homeschooling isn't allowed in Germany these days so the closet Nazis don't have as many places to hide and indoctrinate people. Get over yourself.

Aperocky 7y ago

You’re right and entirely sideway to my point, which is that narrative pushing are not just from one side alone.

perennate 7y ago
Let's consider a hypothetical scenario similar to the one you put forward then. Suppose the US government conducts mass imprisonment of a certain population in concentration camps, like CCP is doing to Uighurs in Xinjiang. Well, it's not hypothetical, we already did it during WWII to Americans of Japanese ethnicity. And newspapers across the US spoke up against this atrocity [1]. Contrast that with China where the newspapers are forced to push the government's narrative, and invariably focus on the terrorism in 2014 that sparked the CCP's disproportional response rather than the barbaric violence perpetrated by the CCP. The US government has formally apologized for the atrocities in the concentration camps where Japanese-Americans were held, and paid reparations ($42K per camp survivor in current USD). We vowed never to do something so horrible again. But in 2019 China is still playing with mass forced incarceration, and they even have the gall to call it a model for combating violence that other countries should follow. The CCP has replaced the Japanese empire in abusing their own population (but I think some in China are racist and view Uighurs as not part of the Chinese people, just like how Nazi Germany viewed the Jewish people, and how some in US during WW2 viewed Japanese-Americans). [1] https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-internment-camps-during-world-war-ii.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-in...
- DarthGhandi 7y ago
  > Suppose the US government conducts mass imprisonment of a certain population I'd argue that's not hypothetical at all, even with Xinjiang the US has by far the highest rate of imprisonment on the planet both of adults and children. Most are black. Vast majority are not violent crimes. It's entirely out of step with the rest of the developed world.
  - tw04 7y ago
    Ah, yes. Because someone convicted of a crime going to jail is the same thing as someone being sent to a camp due to their religion. Equating the issues in the US justice system to concentration camps is ridiculous.
    - imtringued 7y ago
      The definition of "crime" in the USA was carefully chosen to primarily target undesirable races.
    - DarthGhandi 7y ago
      Ah yes, my mistake, you only lock up convicted criminals, let's review that claim for a moment. Here's a visual: https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/uKLej0KwcfGN583uqvyfQN591-k=/767x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/YRMTT4ITBY5V5NJS2JC6NPSS54.png https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/uKLej0KwcfGN583uqvyfQ... Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics I've noticed a massive apathy amongst Chinese towards Xinjiang, the vast majority don't care and think they deserve it. Perhaps you have a lot more in common than you think. Both countries have horrendous records and many from there feel not the slightest bit of shame about it.
      - dailiangren 7y ago
        I grew up in Jiangsu province of China. I heard some very nice stories about people in Xinjiang from my neighbours who had worked in Xinjiang for some time. I also heard some very bad stories about certain group of people from Xinjiang. It's hard to agree with you that 'a massive apathy amongst Chinese towards Xinjiang' --- as an ordinary Chinese, I want a peaceful country, and no terrorists, and I love diversity.

numismatex 7y ago

"some terrorist knife attacks in 2014" -- you mean the Turkestan Liberation Movement, which has been going on for 140 years, which has ties to ISIS, which organized on Facebook (one major reason FB is banned, they refused to take action against the terrorists). Something like 60-70 dead is "some". There's no genocide going on. Nor is there any British nor US-style response to the Hong Kong terrorists. Polling the folks in Xinjiang, they found that the culture was repressive, divisive and anti-China. Hence the reeducation due to crazy ideology. Just like the crazy Falun Gong people, believing they were growing beings in their arms, legs and other parts of their bodies with "Energy Techniques". China's not big on extremists and crazies. See, the majority of China are pretty innocent people, and can be swayed and sucked in by cults and religions. That's why the government steps on them "with no mercy". There's a huge difference in between the Nazis and the Chinese. You just refuse to see it because you don't have the background and education for it. Talk to some people who were around in World War II along with those in Afghanistan and see what they have to say about Nazis and Islamic Extremists. Though they might censor it to be politik these days. China is about Unity, with the head of the family being State. Division isn't welcome. Cults aren't welcome. Religious movements are welcome in designated areas. "House Churches", "Private Priests" and "Private Imams" aren't welcome. Just like homeschooling isn't allowed in Germany these days so the closet Nazis don't have as many places to hide and indoctrinate people. Get over yourself.