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Both the west and China omit information when reporting about HK. China highlights protester violence, the west talk about police. The only difference is that w

Both the west and China omit information when reporting about HK. China highlights protester violence, the west talk about police. The only difference is that west is doing it voluntarily. If you step back and think about it, if this protest were to happen in the US, with subways burned, shops destroyed, road blocked, for 6 months. What is going to happen? Compare this hypothetical scenario with what happened in Hong Kong. Where’s the gap? In 2019 we’ve been accustomed to export thinking to other people and import outrage from the cheapest source. And it doesn’t take a dictatorial government to push a narrative.

zzzcpan 7y ago
> China highlights protester violence, the west talk about police. The only difference is that west is doing it voluntarily. Both in the US and in China people work in media voluntarily. In neither case they have freedom to publish anything they want, they have to push specific narratives coming from the top. In China narratives come directly from the government, in the US indirectly through the system of "manufacturing consent".
- perennate 7y ago
  China Daily has an office in NYC [1], and publishes a US edition of their newspaper. This is a newspaper directly owned by the CCP. And you can pick up a copy of the regular China Daily in many cities. Is the uncensored New York Times available in China? I think not. Trying to equate the two is ridiculous. No one is going to buy your argument that "manufacturing consent" means that the level of freedom of speech is the same in the US and China. It's just completely wrong. [1] http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/2011-04/13/content_12319455.htm http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/2011-04/13/content_12319455.htm When the police come in and arrest everyone working for the China Daily in NYC and send them to jail and physically torture them like the CCP did to Simon Cheng or harvest their organs like the CCP did to Falun Gong followers, then you can make your argument. And many people in the US will fight just as hard for the rights of China Daily US Edition as they fight for freedom of speech and universal suffrage in Hong Kong.
perennate 7y ago
In the US I can read any English source, both ones from China and ones from US/UK media. I read that the CCP imprisoned approximately one million Uighurs in concentration camps in Xinjiang, where they are being held indefinitely without due process, and there are reports of physical torture (waterboarding and tiger chair), rape, and occasional killings. I also read from CCP's point of view that this started because there were some terrorist knife attacks in 2014. So I can get both sides' point of views. But after reading both sides, my conclusion is that even if 10,000 people are guilty it does not justify a Holocaust-scale genocide of one million Uighurs, where the overwhelming majority are innocent and did not participate or condone the terrorists. There is no difference between the logic of those perpetrating the genocide in Xinjiang and the logic of Hitler during WWII.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  You’re right and entirely sideway to my point, which is that narrative pushing are not just from one side alone.
  - perennate 7y ago
    Let's consider a hypothetical scenario similar to the one you put forward then. Suppose the US government conducts mass imprisonment of a certain population in concentration camps, like CCP is doing to Uighurs in Xinjiang. Well, it's not hypothetical, we already did it during WWII to Americans of Japanese ethnicity. And newspapers across the US spoke up against this atrocity [1]. Contrast that with China where the newspapers are forced to push the government's narrative, and invariably focus on the terrorism in 2014 that sparked the CCP's disproportional response rather than the barbaric violence perpetrated by the CCP. The US government has formally apologized for the atrocities in the concentration camps where Japanese-Americans were held, and paid reparations ($42K per camp survivor in current USD). We vowed never to do something so horrible again. But in 2019 China is still playing with mass forced incarceration, and they even have the gall to call it a model for combating violence that other countries should follow. The CCP has replaced the Japanese empire in abusing their own population (but I think some in China are racist and view Uighurs as not part of the Chinese people, just like how Nazi Germany viewed the Jewish people, and how some in US during WW2 viewed Japanese-Americans). [1] https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-internment-camps-during-world-war-ii.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-in...
hkmaxpro 7y ago
> If you step back and think about it, if this protest were to happen in the US, with subways burned, shops destroyed, road blocked, for 6 months. What is going to happen? Compare this hypothetical scenario with what happened in Hong Kong. If the same protests happened in the US, with a quarter of the population marching peacefully on June 16 (as it did in Hong Kong), the government has to immediately respond to its people’s demands, for otherwise the current government will lose in landslide in the next election. And all the subway burning, shops destruction, etc will be avoided — these events happened at least three months into Hong Kong protests in September, long after the mega march on June 16. Thank you for pointing out Hong Kong has no genuine democracy, which is directly related to one of the five key demands.
- numismatex 7y ago
  Uh, no they wouldn't. They'd kill them for what they are -- rioters and looters, assaulting people and terrorizing an entire city of 17 million people. They wouldn't care about losing. It's about response. Our response to riots like this is to declare martial law and send in the law enforcement and troops. "will be avoided"?? as if they didn't happen. Hong Kong was never promised democracy nor independence in any agreement with China. It's been talked about, again and again. If you think that this is what the HK riots have been all about, think again. Poverty, housing, criminality, Canton vs Mandarin, HK vs China -- the British faced this several times and their response was exactly what the US would be, with a large death toll. The government didn't change hands at that point, kiddo. Check your repetitive narrative and self-delusion when you leave your safe space.
flukus 7y ago
> If you step back and think about it, if this protest were to happen in the US, with subways burned, shops destroyed, road blocked, for 6 months. What is going to happen? Compare this hypothetical scenario with what happened in Hong Kong. It's not hypocritical because the US has democratic avenues and Hong Kong (and China) doesn't, disruption is their only option. When Hong Kong has universal free and fare elections I'll think about joining your condemnation.

zzzcpan 7y ago

> China highlights protester violence, the west talk about police. The only difference is that west is doing it voluntarily. Both in the US and in China people work in media voluntarily. In neither case they have freedom to publish anything they want, they have to push specific narratives coming from the top. In China narratives come directly from the government, in the US indirectly through the system of "manufacturing consent".

perennate 7y ago
China Daily has an office in NYC [1], and publishes a US edition of their newspaper. This is a newspaper directly owned by the CCP. And you can pick up a copy of the regular China Daily in many cities. Is the uncensored New York Times available in China? I think not. Trying to equate the two is ridiculous. No one is going to buy your argument that "manufacturing consent" means that the level of freedom of speech is the same in the US and China. It's just completely wrong. [1] http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/2011-04/13/content_12319455.htm http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/2011-04/13/content_12319455.htm When the police come in and arrest everyone working for the China Daily in NYC and send them to jail and physically torture them like the CCP did to Simon Cheng or harvest their organs like the CCP did to Falun Gong followers, then you can make your argument. And many people in the US will fight just as hard for the rights of China Daily US Edition as they fight for freedom of speech and universal suffrage in Hong Kong.

perennate 7y ago

In the US I can read any English source, both ones from China and ones from US/UK media. I read that the CCP imprisoned approximately one million Uighurs in concentration camps in Xinjiang, where they are being held indefinitely without due process, and there are reports of physical torture (waterboarding and tiger chair), rape, and occasional killings. I also read from CCP's point of view that this started because there were some terrorist knife attacks in 2014. So I can get both sides' point of views. But after reading both sides, my conclusion is that even if 10,000 people are guilty it does not justify a Holocaust-scale genocide of one million Uighurs, where the overwhelming majority are innocent and did not participate or condone the terrorists. There is no difference between the logic of those perpetrating the genocide in Xinjiang and the logic of Hitler during WWII.

Aperocky 7y ago
You’re right and entirely sideway to my point, which is that narrative pushing are not just from one side alone.
- perennate 7y ago
  Let's consider a hypothetical scenario similar to the one you put forward then. Suppose the US government conducts mass imprisonment of a certain population in concentration camps, like CCP is doing to Uighurs in Xinjiang. Well, it's not hypothetical, we already did it during WWII to Americans of Japanese ethnicity. And newspapers across the US spoke up against this atrocity [1]. Contrast that with China where the newspapers are forced to push the government's narrative, and invariably focus on the terrorism in 2014 that sparked the CCP's disproportional response rather than the barbaric violence perpetrated by the CCP. The US government has formally apologized for the atrocities in the concentration camps where Japanese-Americans were held, and paid reparations ($42K per camp survivor in current USD). We vowed never to do something so horrible again. But in 2019 China is still playing with mass forced incarceration, and they even have the gall to call it a model for combating violence that other countries should follow. The CCP has replaced the Japanese empire in abusing their own population (but I think some in China are racist and view Uighurs as not part of the Chinese people, just like how Nazi Germany viewed the Jewish people, and how some in US during WW2 viewed Japanese-Americans). [1] https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-internment-camps-during-world-war-ii.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/protests-against-in...

hkmaxpro 7y ago

> If you step back and think about it, if this protest were to happen in the US, with subways burned, shops destroyed, road blocked, for 6 months. What is going to happen? Compare this hypothetical scenario with what happened in Hong Kong. If the same protests happened in the US, with a quarter of the population marching peacefully on June 16 (as it did in Hong Kong), the government has to immediately respond to its people’s demands, for otherwise the current government will lose in landslide in the next election. And all the subway burning, shops destruction, etc will be avoided — these events happened at least three months into Hong Kong protests in September, long after the mega march on June 16. Thank you for pointing out Hong Kong has no genuine democracy, which is directly related to one of the five key demands.

numismatex 7y ago
Uh, no they wouldn't. They'd kill them for what they are -- rioters and looters, assaulting people and terrorizing an entire city of 17 million people. They wouldn't care about losing. It's about response. Our response to riots like this is to declare martial law and send in the law enforcement and troops. "will be avoided"?? as if they didn't happen. Hong Kong was never promised democracy nor independence in any agreement with China. It's been talked about, again and again. If you think that this is what the HK riots have been all about, think again. Poverty, housing, criminality, Canton vs Mandarin, HK vs China -- the British faced this several times and their response was exactly what the US would be, with a large death toll. The government didn't change hands at that point, kiddo. Check your repetitive narrative and self-delusion when you leave your safe space.

flukus 7y ago

> If you step back and think about it, if this protest were to happen in the US, with subways burned, shops destroyed, road blocked, for 6 months. What is going to happen? Compare this hypothetical scenario with what happened in Hong Kong. It's not hypocritical because the US has democratic avenues and Hong Kong (and China) doesn't, disruption is their only option. When Hong Kong has universal free and fare elections I'll think about joining your condemnation.