4 ms·

I don't know how to respond to this. UN experts on human rights have looked into his situation and been quite alarmed by it. I can't think of a group of people

by k1m 7y ago

I don't know how to respond to this. UN experts on human rights have looked into his situation and been quite alarmed by it. I can't think of a group of people more respected in the field of human rights than the experts at the UN. And yet there are commenters here on HN who, I don't know on what basis, write that it's all mostly "hyperbole".

mcv 7y ago
It is mostly self-inflicted, though. He chose that exile over facing justice for these charges. And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole. It's the job of the judicial system to prosecute people who break the law, and it's definitely better if they do so in a systemic rather than arbitrary way. So while it's entirely possible that Assange shows symptoms of torture, the question remains who tortured him. For a long time, by his own choice, it was only the Ecuadorian embassy that had access to him.
- vintermann 7y ago
  This talking point had been soundly debunked. Sweden kept up the threat of charges and demand for extradition for nearly ten years, but dropped them like a hot potato when the US charges became public (when Sweden's charges would only get in their way). Never mind that Assange was ridiculed for most of those ten years for claiming that US would seek his extradition. His understanding of the world, including the assessment that Sweden is extremely servile to the US in security/foreign policy matters, has been vindicated again and again.
  - kls 7y ago
    While I don't disagree, the crowd is fickle and has at best a short attention span. He would have been better served to face the charges while it was all going on and he had the crowds attention. He is in a far worse position now, given that attentions and the world have moved on. The US can pretty much railroad him and no one will bat an eye. Whereas before they risked making a martyr.
    - monocasa 7y ago
      He wasn't going to face any charges in Sweden. They've let US intelligence just black bag people without any legal process before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
  - samdfonseca 7y ago
    All of the following can be true at the same time: - Sweden dropped the charges after the US pressured them to - The US has been seeking his extradition for years - Sweden is extremely servile to the US in security/foreign policy - He raped a girl in Sweden
    - acqq 7y ago
      > - He raped a girl in Sweden He was just wanted for "inquiry" about the possible case. And some details of the case are here described, by the woman in whose apartment he slept, as organized by her: "The statement records Miss A describing how Assange then released her arms and agreed to use a condom, but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing." "When he was later interviewed by police in Stockholm, Assange agreed that he had had sex with Miss A but said he did not tear the condom, and that he was not aware that it had been torn. He told police that he had continued to sleep in Miss A's bed for the following week and she had never mentioned a torn condom." Then, another miss "Miss W" some days later: "However, during the night, they had both woken up and had sex at least once when "he agreed unwillingly to use a condom"." ... "Early the next morning, Miss W told police, she had gone to buy breakfast before getting back into bed and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no." "In submissions to the Swedish courts, (Assange and his lawyers) have argued that Miss W took the initiative in contacting Assange, that on her own account she willingly engaged in sexual activity in a cinema and voluntarily took him to her flat where, she agrees, they had consensual sex. They say that she never indicated to Assange that she did not want to have sex with him. They also say that in a text message to a friend, she never suggested she had been raped and claimed only to have been "half asleep"." Such nasty cases. The women "compared their impressions" (they were it seems friends) and then went to police, once he was away. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange...
- stjohnswarts 7y ago
  I think you mean "justice"
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  > And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole This is 1A 100% political persecution if you don't close both your eyes.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Is that torture?
    - belorn 7y ago
      Ask anyone who has been target of political persecution for several years.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  "persecution" and "prosecution" are different words.
- belorn 7y ago
  The job of the judicial system is to treat all citizen the same. Everyone should be judged equally under the hand of the law. The Assange case got uniquely handled in every single step. Even a court found that the prosecutor mishandled the case. Proportionally the case used more money than any other case, used stronger legal method than any other case, and did not follow the judicial rules that all cases should follow. Journalists has asked the prosecutor if the case had a high likelihood to find Assange guilty even without any witnesses. The answer that was consistently given before the US extradition request was yes, the case looked good in the eye of the prosecutor, years in and years out. Now, all suddenly, the answer is no. Now all the sudden the prosecutor say it is hard to convict someone without witnesses. The behavior demonstrated by the prosecutor is one of a politician system. It gave special attention. It swings with the political winds. Being the targeted of that is torture.
nradov 7y ago
The UN Human Rights Council had Saudi Arabia as a member. I can't imagine how anyone would respect them.
- jstarfish 7y ago
  Why? Saudis are humans too even if we find their behavior abhorrent. If you exclude anyone you disagree with, it's not a council, it's a bandwagon.

by k1m 7y ago

mcv 7y ago

It is mostly self-inflicted, though. He chose that exile over facing justice for these charges. And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole. It's the job of the judicial system to prosecute people who break the law, and it's definitely better if they do so in a systemic rather than arbitrary way. So while it's entirely possible that Assange shows symptoms of torture, the question remains who tortured him. For a long time, by his own choice, it was only the Ecuadorian embassy that had access to him.

vintermann 7y ago
This talking point had been soundly debunked. Sweden kept up the threat of charges and demand for extradition for nearly ten years, but dropped them like a hot potato when the US charges became public (when Sweden's charges would only get in their way). Never mind that Assange was ridiculed for most of those ten years for claiming that US would seek his extradition. His understanding of the world, including the assessment that Sweden is extremely servile to the US in security/foreign policy matters, has been vindicated again and again.
- kls 7y ago
  While I don't disagree, the crowd is fickle and has at best a short attention span. He would have been better served to face the charges while it was all going on and he had the crowds attention. He is in a far worse position now, given that attentions and the world have moved on. The US can pretty much railroad him and no one will bat an eye. Whereas before they risked making a martyr.
  - monocasa 7y ago
    He wasn't going to face any charges in Sweden. They've let US intelligence just black bag people without any legal process before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
- samdfonseca 7y ago
  All of the following can be true at the same time: - Sweden dropped the charges after the US pressured them to - The US has been seeking his extradition for years - Sweden is extremely servile to the US in security/foreign policy - He raped a girl in Sweden
  - acqq 7y ago
    > - He raped a girl in Sweden He was just wanted for "inquiry" about the possible case. And some details of the case are here described, by the woman in whose apartment he slept, as organized by her: "The statement records Miss A describing how Assange then released her arms and agreed to use a condom, but she told the police that at some stage Assange had "done something" with the condom that resulted in it becoming ripped, and ejaculated without withdrawing." "When he was later interviewed by police in Stockholm, Assange agreed that he had had sex with Miss A but said he did not tear the condom, and that he was not aware that it had been torn. He told police that he had continued to sleep in Miss A's bed for the following week and she had never mentioned a torn condom." Then, another miss "Miss W" some days later: "However, during the night, they had both woken up and had sex at least once when "he agreed unwillingly to use a condom"." ... "Early the next morning, Miss W told police, she had gone to buy breakfast before getting back into bed and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no." "In submissions to the Swedish courts, (Assange and his lawyers) have argued that Miss W took the initiative in contacting Assange, that on her own account she willingly engaged in sexual activity in a cinema and voluntarily took him to her flat where, she agrees, they had consensual sex. They say that she never indicated to Assange that she did not want to have sex with him. They also say that in a text message to a friend, she never suggested she had been raped and claimed only to have been "half asleep"." Such nasty cases. The women "compared their impressions" (they were it seems friends) and then went to police, once he was away. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange...
stjohnswarts 7y ago
I think you mean "justice"
raxxorrax 7y ago
> And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole This is 1A 100% political persecution if you don't close both your eyes.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Is that torture?
  - belorn 7y ago
    Ask anyone who has been target of political persecution for several years.
lonelappde 7y ago
"persecution" and "prosecution" are different words.
belorn 7y ago
The job of the judicial system is to treat all citizen the same. Everyone should be judged equally under the hand of the law. The Assange case got uniquely handled in every single step. Even a court found that the prosecutor mishandled the case. Proportionally the case used more money than any other case, used stronger legal method than any other case, and did not follow the judicial rules that all cases should follow. Journalists has asked the prosecutor if the case had a high likelihood to find Assange guilty even without any witnesses. The answer that was consistently given before the US extradition request was yes, the case looked good in the eye of the prosecutor, years in and years out. Now, all suddenly, the answer is no. Now all the sudden the prosecutor say it is hard to convict someone without witnesses. The behavior demonstrated by the prosecutor is one of a politician system. It gave special attention. It swings with the political winds. Being the targeted of that is torture.

nradov 7y ago

The UN Human Rights Council had Saudi Arabia as a member. I can't imagine how anyone would respect them.

jstarfish 7y ago
Why? Saudis are humans too even if we find their behavior abhorrent. If you exclude anyone you disagree with, it's not a council, it's a bandwagon.