4 ms·

I don't understand this comment. So something is difficult to fix; how does this make the components any less recyclable, less free of harmful toxins? Apple ha

I don't understand this comment. So something is difficult to fix; how does this make the components any less recyclable, less free of harmful toxins? Apple has a fairly comprehensive recycling system, to strip their own systems apart and reclaim reusable components. Are you suggesting when people take their MacBooks to get replaced that Apple are just throwing them in a landfill or something?

dna_polymerase 7y ago
> I don't understand this comment. So something is difficult to fix; how does this make the components any less recyclable, less free of harmful toxins? The next best thing to recycling (from an environmental standpoint) is being able to repair and continue usage. However Apple's hardware becomes more and more unfix-able (actually impossible, because parts are basically tailored to a single device, thus there can't be secondary parts, and Apple doesn't provide them at all). Go down the rabbit hole yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTpHa70DDX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTpHa70DDX0
- GrayShade 7y ago
  It's not the next best thing, it's the better thing. Reduce, reuse, recycle.
Symbiote 7y ago
Repairing a device by replacing a small part (preferably only the broken component) uses far less resources than recycling. For most other laptops, repair or replacement of common components doesn't depend so much on the manufacturer. The skill and equipment required to do the repair is significantly reduced. All else being equal, this makes it more likely that the laptop will be repaired rather than discarded.
- w0utert 7y ago
  Not trying to be cynical here because I also would prefer a MBP that was more serviceable/repairable, but all these discussions about how repairability impacts the environmental cost of these devices are IMO extremely contrived. How many (in percentage terms) of laptops will ever need repairs, how many of those will actually be repaired (as opposed to consumers just deciding to buy something new, even if repair would be relatively easy and cheap), and then finally, what percentage of these defective laptops will actually been thrown away without any form of recycling? I'm pretty sure that if you do the math, in the grand scheme of things, these numbers will be utterly irrelevant except for HN talking points. I would recommend spending public outrage about environmental concerns on areas where it really matters instead, such as e.g. food waste, plastic bags, energy efficiency etc. I'm pretty sure that even a tiny, tiny fraction improvement there would offset the environmental impact of the worldwide total of laptops that cannot or will not be repaired after they break down.
  - gwd 7y ago
    > How many (in percentage terms) of laptops will ever need repairs, how many of those will actually be repaired (as opposed to consumers just deciding to buy something new, even if repair would be relatively easy and cheap) Whether end-users try to repair their laptops depends in part on their expectations; and their expectations depend a lot on how repair-able laptops are in general. My second-to-last laptop, a Dell, lasted me nearly a decade. I upgraded the hard disk, upgraded the memory, and replaced the inverter in the display twice. I mainly replaced it because it was about 4x the weight of newer laptops, and had started eating batteries. There's no reason more laptops couldn't last as long.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      On average, a sealed no-moving-parts laptop like the MacBook(Pro/Air) line lasts 10 years due to resistance to the elements, excellent thermals/fans, and forward-looking connectivity compatibility. Every day people buy 2011 Macs online for the same $400 price as new non-Macs with similar specs.
    - w0utert 7y ago
      Yes I get it, that's what I try to do as well. Just recently I went through the hassle of repairing my moms 5-year old Asus Zenbook, which had a broken SSD that was also a lot more effort to repair than necessary because of the non-standard M2 slot Asus used for the sole purpose of discouraging home repair (there literally is no other explanation for this slot besides trying to get you to pay Asus for the repair or -even better- a new device). She was already planning to throw it a way and get a new one. The point is, that if it weren't for the fact that I explicitly asked her to let me have a look to see if I could repair it, she would have thrown it out even though it was perfectly possible to repair it (it's working 100% fine again now). My mother is not the exception, she's the rule. I would guess over 90% of people don't bother to repair 5-year old laptops, under any circumstance. They just write it off and get a new one. That's why I was saying all these discussions about how repairability of laptops impacts the environment are largely moot. Probably better incentives to promote proper recycling (e.g. a tax on electronics that gets re-imbursed when you properly dispose them) would have much more positive effect compared to improved repairability.

dna_polymerase 7y ago

> I don't understand this comment. So something is difficult to fix; how does this make the components any less recyclable, less free of harmful toxins? The next best thing to recycling (from an environmental standpoint) is being able to repair and continue usage. However Apple's hardware becomes more and more unfix-able (actually impossible, because parts are basically tailored to a single device, thus there can't be secondary parts, and Apple doesn't provide them at all). Go down the rabbit hole yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTpHa70DDX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTpHa70DDX0

GrayShade 7y ago
It's not the next best thing, it's the better thing. Reduce, reuse, recycle.

Symbiote 7y ago

Repairing a device by replacing a small part (preferably only the broken component) uses far less resources than recycling. For most other laptops, repair or replacement of common components doesn't depend so much on the manufacturer. The skill and equipment required to do the repair is significantly reduced. All else being equal, this makes it more likely that the laptop will be repaired rather than discarded.

w0utert 7y ago
Not trying to be cynical here because I also would prefer a MBP that was more serviceable/repairable, but all these discussions about how repairability impacts the environmental cost of these devices are IMO extremely contrived. How many (in percentage terms) of laptops will ever need repairs, how many of those will actually be repaired (as opposed to consumers just deciding to buy something new, even if repair would be relatively easy and cheap), and then finally, what percentage of these defective laptops will actually been thrown away without any form of recycling? I'm pretty sure that if you do the math, in the grand scheme of things, these numbers will be utterly irrelevant except for HN talking points. I would recommend spending public outrage about environmental concerns on areas where it really matters instead, such as e.g. food waste, plastic bags, energy efficiency etc. I'm pretty sure that even a tiny, tiny fraction improvement there would offset the environmental impact of the worldwide total of laptops that cannot or will not be repaired after they break down.
- gwd 7y ago
  > How many (in percentage terms) of laptops will ever need repairs, how many of those will actually be repaired (as opposed to consumers just deciding to buy something new, even if repair would be relatively easy and cheap) Whether end-users try to repair their laptops depends in part on their expectations; and their expectations depend a lot on how repair-able laptops are in general. My second-to-last laptop, a Dell, lasted me nearly a decade. I upgraded the hard disk, upgraded the memory, and replaced the inverter in the display twice. I mainly replaced it because it was about 4x the weight of newer laptops, and had started eating batteries. There's no reason more laptops couldn't last as long.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    On average, a sealed no-moving-parts laptop like the MacBook(Pro/Air) line lasts 10 years due to resistance to the elements, excellent thermals/fans, and forward-looking connectivity compatibility. Every day people buy 2011 Macs online for the same $400 price as new non-Macs with similar specs.
  - w0utert 7y ago
    Yes I get it, that's what I try to do as well. Just recently I went through the hassle of repairing my moms 5-year old Asus Zenbook, which had a broken SSD that was also a lot more effort to repair than necessary because of the non-standard M2 slot Asus used for the sole purpose of discouraging home repair (there literally is no other explanation for this slot besides trying to get you to pay Asus for the repair or -even better- a new device). She was already planning to throw it a way and get a new one. The point is, that if it weren't for the fact that I explicitly asked her to let me have a look to see if I could repair it, she would have thrown it out even though it was perfectly possible to repair it (it's working 100% fine again now). My mother is not the exception, she's the rule. I would guess over 90% of people don't bother to repair 5-year old laptops, under any circumstance. They just write it off and get a new one. That's why I was saying all these discussions about how repairability of laptops impacts the environment are largely moot. Probably better incentives to promote proper recycling (e.g. a tax on electronics that gets re-imbursed when you properly dispose them) would have much more positive effect compared to improved repairability.