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Bitcoin isn't criticized for this being an invalid use case, because it's totally valid. It's criticized because it's useless for this use case, people involve

Bitcoin isn't criticized for this being an invalid use case, because it's totally valid. It's criticized because it's useless for this use case, people involved in this scene in practice don't care about it to any serious degree beyond it being a talking point, and because anything for legally working around financial deplatforming still needs strong interfacing with the rest of the system as well as compliance with legal regimes, which BTC has nothing to say on that. In fact, you can make your own payments platform denominated in USD and that's as useful as BTC for legal activities. So why go through the extra steps?

hndamien 7y ago
Or you could not go through any of the steps of making a payments platform and just accept BTC.
- Mate2Mate 7y ago
  Or just accept Nano, and not have any hassle at all! Just put a Nano QR code on display and voila! - Instant notification of immutable, secure payments from anyone in the world. No complexities, no wait for confirmations, no unreliable unsafe Lightning Network channel complexities.
- Daishiman 7y ago
  And then you have to find a seller for BTC and deal with that hassle yourself.
  - acchow 7y ago
    Unless other things were priced in BTC...
    - bduerst 7y ago
      Yes, if everyone used BTC that would solve the problem of people using BTC.
  - stale2002 7y ago
    Ok, but the buyers and sellers of BTC are discriminating very little, against perfectly legal activities, in the way that PayPal is doing it a lot. If I buy or sell BTC from coinbase, for example, they aren't going to care if the money came from the porn industry or not. That's the difference. Apparently, for some reason, PayPal is shutting down people who are doing perfectly legal stuff, but coinbase isn't, to the same degree. That is the practical advantage, right there.
    - stoptypingnow 7y ago
      I'm in the US and bought perfectly legal supplements from a US company using BTC from my Coinbase wallet. I and several other customers of this US company had our accounts terminated by Coinbase. This US company we bought supplements from also accepted and still accepts major credit cards. Coinbase certainly cares.
      - StavrosK 7y ago
        I don't want to be "that guy", but Bitcoin being pseudonymous is a definite downside when it comes to losing your account. That's why I greatly prefer Monero, especially with xmr.to letting you transparently send Monero to Bitcoin addresses.
    - paulmd 7y ago
      Places like Coinbase are increasingly implementing KYC and will "care" just like other financial institutions. It's not hard to see when money is coming in from a known account or a tumbler.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
drewblaisdell 7y ago
> It's criticized because it's useless for this use case, people involved in this scene in practice don't care about it to any serious degree beyond it being a talking point This is demonstrably false in the amateur porn industry.
ryukafalz 7y ago
I think part of it is a bootstrapping problem. Bitcoin solved an interesting technical problem, so people started using it. Once people started getting interested, companies popped up to sell it, but notably there was a base of users prior to that. By contrast, the barrier to entry for a new system denominated in USD is much higher. People can't really start using it until there's a company around to support it, and starting a company to run a payments platform isn't for the faint of heart. Still, I've been keeping an eye on GNU Taler[0], which seems to be tackling the technical side of that problem. I'm unclear on some of the technical details, but it's the closest thing I've found so far to digital cash. [0] https://taler.net/en/ https://taler.net/en/
- cheez 7y ago
  Taler's demo doesn't even work
- why_only_15 7y ago
  Seems like it could be interesting in theory, but I'm not sure very many people are seriously working on it, and it doesn't look like there's been an update for a year and a half.
- codexon 7y ago
  Bitcoin (and all other cryptocoins) are just not usable for mass transactions. Buying anything with bitcoin takes over 10 minutes, often times over an hour for shops that are paranoid and require 3+ confirmations. During the peak bubble time, I remember buying something with bitcoin taking 2 hours!! This technical problem has not been solved and the "lightning network" just turns exchanges like Coinbase into a bank or Paypal that can be shut down or run away with your money, which basically ruins the entire point of using Bitcoin. Until Bitcoin can scale without "lightning network", I don't see people using it outside illegal activities. And from what I can see, the core concept of Bitcoin (and other cryptocoins) is fundamentally at odds with fast transactions. If you make confirmations 2x faster, then it just becomes 2x easier to fake a transaction. So paranoid merchants will just require double the confirmations.
  - 7y ago
undefined3840 7y ago
Why would you assume adult workers don’t care about Bitcoin? I follow “crypto twitter” a bit and there are certainly a decent number of adult workers that are interested in it. Most understand the benefits for an industry that is in a legal gray area. Building your own PayPal is way harder than building a payout mechanism for Bitcoin.
- Mate2Mate 7y ago
  You don't need PayPal or Bitcoin - you just put a Nano address or QR code in the model's webcam backdrop and voila! Instant notification of instantly-immutable secure payments. No Lightning Channel complexities, no hour-long wait for Bitcoin confirmations. Nano simply works, beautifully. You can try it yourself for free - you'll be amazed by its free sub-second fee transfers: http://trynanocurrency.com http://trynanocurrency.com
tuesdayrain 7y ago
> In fact, you can make your own payments platform denominated in USD and that's as useful as BTC for legal activities. So why go through the extra steps? Good call. These pornstars should just create their own payment platform instead of going through all the hassle of using BTC.
- epicureanideal 7y ago
  Wouldn't that still require some kind of cooperation from banks or credit card companies? If someone knows a way that doesn't require cooperation from these, that would be great. (I suppose one way would be to set up some sort of "western union" where you could deposit cash and someone at the "bank" would change the number in your account balance accordingly... But maybe there are regulations about this?)
  - lisper 7y ago
    > Wouldn't that still require some kind of cooperation from banks or credit card companies? Yes. The net practical effect of anti-money-laundering laws is that you cannot transfer money at scale without the government's permission.
  - tuesdayrain 7y ago
    I was joking. Suggesting that pornstars create their own payment platforms instead of using BTC is the single worst suggestion I've ever read on here. I'm dumbfounded that someone could seriously think that. The money transmitter license alone would cost over a million dollars.
atomi 7y ago
I don't think there will ever be one coin that will solve everyone's problem. As attested to by the number of new crypto currencies attempting to correct every perceived issue with more popular crypto currencies.
jMyles 7y ago
> anything for legally working around financial deplatforming still needs strong interfacing with the rest of the system as well as compliance with legal regimes I have never understood the obsession with complying with stupid laws. The solution needed here isn't "legally" working around financial deplatforming; illegally doing so will work just fine - and also probably have the benefit, as widespread disobedience often has, of putting extreme pressure on these laws themselves.
lm28469 7y ago
> Bitcoin isn't criticized for this being an invalid use case, because it's totally valid. As in you get paid 550$, by the time it's yours it's worth $600 and the next day $250 ?

hndamien 7y ago

Or you could not go through any of the steps of making a payments platform and just accept BTC.

Mate2Mate 7y ago
Or just accept Nano, and not have any hassle at all! Just put a Nano QR code on display and voila! - Instant notification of immutable, secure payments from anyone in the world. No complexities, no wait for confirmations, no unreliable unsafe Lightning Network channel complexities.
Daishiman 7y ago
And then you have to find a seller for BTC and deal with that hassle yourself.
- acchow 7y ago
  Unless other things were priced in BTC...
  - bduerst 7y ago
    Yes, if everyone used BTC that would solve the problem of people using BTC.
- stale2002 7y ago
  Ok, but the buyers and sellers of BTC are discriminating very little, against perfectly legal activities, in the way that PayPal is doing it a lot. If I buy or sell BTC from coinbase, for example, they aren't going to care if the money came from the porn industry or not. That's the difference. Apparently, for some reason, PayPal is shutting down people who are doing perfectly legal stuff, but coinbase isn't, to the same degree. That is the practical advantage, right there.
  - stoptypingnow 7y ago
    I'm in the US and bought perfectly legal supplements from a US company using BTC from my Coinbase wallet. I and several other customers of this US company had our accounts terminated by Coinbase. This US company we bought supplements from also accepted and still accepts major credit cards. Coinbase certainly cares.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      I don't want to be "that guy", but Bitcoin being pseudonymous is a definite downside when it comes to losing your account. That's why I greatly prefer Monero, especially with xmr.to letting you transparently send Monero to Bitcoin addresses.
  - paulmd 7y ago
    Places like Coinbase are increasingly implementing KYC and will "care" just like other financial institutions. It's not hard to see when money is coming in from a known account or a tumbler.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

drewblaisdell 7y ago

> It's criticized because it's useless for this use case, people involved in this scene in practice don't care about it to any serious degree beyond it being a talking point This is demonstrably false in the amateur porn industry.

ryukafalz 7y ago

I think part of it is a bootstrapping problem. Bitcoin solved an interesting technical problem, so people started using it. Once people started getting interested, companies popped up to sell it, but notably there was a base of users prior to that. By contrast, the barrier to entry for a new system denominated in USD is much higher. People can't really start using it until there's a company around to support it, and starting a company to run a payments platform isn't for the faint of heart. Still, I've been keeping an eye on GNU Taler[0], which seems to be tackling the technical side of that problem. I'm unclear on some of the technical details, but it's the closest thing I've found so far to digital cash. [0] https://taler.net/en/ https://taler.net/en/

cheez 7y ago
Taler's demo doesn't even work
why_only_15 7y ago
Seems like it could be interesting in theory, but I'm not sure very many people are seriously working on it, and it doesn't look like there's been an update for a year and a half.
codexon 7y ago
Bitcoin (and all other cryptocoins) are just not usable for mass transactions. Buying anything with bitcoin takes over 10 minutes, often times over an hour for shops that are paranoid and require 3+ confirmations. During the peak bubble time, I remember buying something with bitcoin taking 2 hours!! This technical problem has not been solved and the "lightning network" just turns exchanges like Coinbase into a bank or Paypal that can be shut down or run away with your money, which basically ruins the entire point of using Bitcoin. Until Bitcoin can scale without "lightning network", I don't see people using it outside illegal activities. And from what I can see, the core concept of Bitcoin (and other cryptocoins) is fundamentally at odds with fast transactions. If you make confirmations 2x faster, then it just becomes 2x easier to fake a transaction. So paranoid merchants will just require double the confirmations.
- 7y ago

undefined3840 7y ago

Why would you assume adult workers don’t care about Bitcoin? I follow “crypto twitter” a bit and there are certainly a decent number of adult workers that are interested in it. Most understand the benefits for an industry that is in a legal gray area. Building your own PayPal is way harder than building a payout mechanism for Bitcoin.

Mate2Mate 7y ago
You don't need PayPal or Bitcoin - you just put a Nano address or QR code in the model's webcam backdrop and voila! Instant notification of instantly-immutable secure payments. No Lightning Channel complexities, no hour-long wait for Bitcoin confirmations. Nano simply works, beautifully. You can try it yourself for free - you'll be amazed by its free sub-second fee transfers: http://trynanocurrency.com http://trynanocurrency.com

tuesdayrain 7y ago

> In fact, you can make your own payments platform denominated in USD and that's as useful as BTC for legal activities. So why go through the extra steps? Good call. These pornstars should just create their own payment platform instead of going through all the hassle of using BTC.

epicureanideal 7y ago
Wouldn't that still require some kind of cooperation from banks or credit card companies? If someone knows a way that doesn't require cooperation from these, that would be great. (I suppose one way would be to set up some sort of "western union" where you could deposit cash and someone at the "bank" would change the number in your account balance accordingly... But maybe there are regulations about this?)
- lisper 7y ago
  > Wouldn't that still require some kind of cooperation from banks or credit card companies? Yes. The net practical effect of anti-money-laundering laws is that you cannot transfer money at scale without the government's permission.
- tuesdayrain 7y ago
  I was joking. Suggesting that pornstars create their own payment platforms instead of using BTC is the single worst suggestion I've ever read on here. I'm dumbfounded that someone could seriously think that. The money transmitter license alone would cost over a million dollars.

atomi 7y ago

I don't think there will ever be one coin that will solve everyone's problem. As attested to by the number of new crypto currencies attempting to correct every perceived issue with more popular crypto currencies.

jMyles 7y ago

> anything for legally working around financial deplatforming still needs strong interfacing with the rest of the system as well as compliance with legal regimes I have never understood the obsession with complying with stupid laws. The solution needed here isn't "legally" working around financial deplatforming; illegally doing so will work just fine - and also probably have the benefit, as widespread disobedience often has, of putting extreme pressure on these laws themselves.

lm28469 7y ago

> Bitcoin isn't criticized for this being an invalid use case, because it's totally valid. As in you get paid 550$, by the time it's yours it's worth $600 and the next day $250 ?