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Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes
- kilo_bravo_3 7y ago>Hermès’s $640 Clic H Bracelet is one of those luxury baubles that’s financially out of reach for most shoppers. So how is it that Amazon shoppers could recently search for the Hermès piece by name and find a bracelet for just $24.99 on the e-commerce giant’s website? I think this is why I've never received anything fake from Amazon. I'm not stupid enough to think I can get something priced at $640 for $25. >Still, Philip Thomas recently bought a counterfeit Novel Duffle bag from Herschel Supply Co., which generally retails for $85. The New York-based tech executive didn’t care much about color as he browsed, so he scrolled through the various options to pick a black version available for $45.10, even though it meant waiting three weeks for delivery. I also am not stupid enough to think that I can get something priced at $85 for $45 and I know that three weeks means a "China ePacket" full of shit. Even the people who complain about getting fake SD cards must know that a 256GB "not eligible for prime", 2-3 week delivery time, SD card that only cost them $9.99 has got to be a scam, right? Right?!?? I must either be using Amazon wrong or have some magical superpower that causes me to be able to comprehend what is going on around me.
- rasz 7y agoThis is one side of the equation, the other is people ordering the real thing, repackaging it with fake from aliexpress and returning for full refund. More enterprising folks sign up as Amazon supplier, register for some expensive products, ship real thing once or twice and then start throwing more and more fakes into their shipments, all nicely co-mingled by Amazon.
- DownGoat 7y agoWas it not also a thing that if you let Amazon keep your stock as a supplier, customer might get another suppliers item as they were kept together? So if I ordered a book from Amazon from AmazingVendor, Amazon might actually send me an item from ScummyVendor's stock which sold the same book.
- dragonwriter 7y agoYes, including if the AmazingVendor is Amazon itself.
- ss64 7y agoThat only happens when one or more of the 3rd party sellers are part of the "Fullfillment by Amazon" program (FBA). If I was a lawmaker I would make FBA illegal, it is an open door for untraceable counterfeits. I think its the primary reason we are seeing major brands like Nike and Birkenstock walking away from Amazon.
- nkrisc 7y agoOr just hold Amazon accountable for the products they ship and sell through their website. As a consumer I don't care about the logistics of fulfillment; I went to Amazon.com and paid money to Amazon.com, ergo I bought it from Amazon.com and they should be accountable. Then let Amazon sort it out with their suppliers if they're receiving counterfeit goods from them. If Walmart was receiving counterfeit goods from supplier for their stores, they would probably cut ties with those suppliers. This problem exists because Amazon is not being held accountable for what they sell to consumers.
- fma 7y agoYes. Which is why I never order food items from Amazon. It's a common tactic for people to buy items close to expiring at a discount, turn around and do FBA. It gets comingled w/ items sold by sellers who source the products legitimately.
- wufufufu 7y ago> ... the other is people ordering the real thing, repackaging it with fake from aliexpress and returning for full refund. Can't you do this to a retailer? > More enterprising folks sign up as Amazon supplier, register for some expensive products, ship real thing once or twice and then start throwing more and more fakes into their shipments, all nicely co-mingled by Amazon Seems like a fast track to getting your account suspended. Why compromise a profitable business to basically skim off the top?
- rasz 7y agoOther retailers usually pay better wages and care at least a little about the returns. They catch on $370000 quicker https://www.newsweek.com/22-year-old-allegedly-scammed-amazon-out-370k-return-shipments-filled-dirt-1452452 https://www.newsweek.com/22-year-old-allegedly-scammed-amazo... Selling fakes is not skimming off the top, you get at least 1000% margins and Amazon doesnt seem to care all that much as evidenced by above link.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- soylentcola 7y agoHell, if it was clearly a "designer impostor" and sold as such for a fraction of the price, I'd have no problem with it. Plenty of times I'd be fine with something like that (I think of all the $10 "faux-kley" sunglasses I bought as a teen in the 90's). IMO, items in the style of expensive designer baubles have their place as long as they a) don't use the real logo/claim to be legit and b) don't cost as much. I don't mean there aren't some IP lawsuits waiting to happen, but that's not my concern. It's the fakes labeled as genuine articles that need to go. Sell a lookalike Hermes bracelet without logo for $25 instead of $640? Fine by me. Costume jewelry can be fun I'm sure. Same for "Rolax" watches or whatever. But it's not the $100 item listed at $10 that really sucks, it's the fake that's labeled genuine and still sold for $100 that ruins things and needs to be cracked down on.
- neonate 7y agohttp://archive.is/6TNES http://archive.is/6TNES
- branon 7y agoThank you
- Jestar342 7y agoAmazon probably don't care about the authenticity of the items, only that _they_ are fulfilling and shipping them.
- adrianmonk 7y agoWhat I think, and what Amazon doesn't seem to get, is that these two things are inextricably linked. Buyers don't want counterfeit crap. To the extent that authenticity is in question, people are discouraged from buying, and if people don't buy, then you can't fulfill and ship. Of course, you can argue that it must not matter that much because, right now, Amazon is certainly fulfilling and shipping a lot. The real question is whether they could fulfill and ship more if they had different practices in this area. Personally I think yes.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y agoI find this hard to believe. Amazon happily sells returns missing parts as new, or ships counterfeits sold and fulfilled by Amazon for months despite reports in the reviews and subsequent returns. I should know, I've had both happen repeatedly on different items.
- Jestar342 7y agoPerhaps I'm being dense but I am pretty sure everything after your first sentence actually concurs with my post.
- crb002 7y agoManufacturers need to start issuing UUIDs and some sort of centralized or decentralized API to track ownership. Surprised the high end purse manufacturers haven’t done this.
- jjoonathan 7y agoMany do, but only use it when convenient. For instance, Fitbit used "no recipt => potential fake" to flake on the warranty for my $300 watch. They absolutely do keep and track serial numbers because actual fakes get detected and kicked out of the fitbit app, but the fact that this database isn't public still lets them use fakes as scapegoats when convenient. Best of both worlds!
- beering 7y agoThere is the Amazon Transparency program that some manufacturers are participating in: https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency It is not decentralized, nor free, nor open to everyone, but I think it's close to what you're envisioning. Edit: I may have gotten it confused with the Amazon Elements program which looks similar.
- praptak 7y agoThey seem to be aware of this. Amazon Transparency, if successful, will banish fakes. In its essence it's about provable origin of each item, back to the owner of the brand.
- bloopernova 7y agoAmazon created the problem, and now they're selling a service to fix the problem. That they created. Heckuva business model.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y agoI think this article seems like a good example of editorial independence. Even though both Amazon and the Washington Post are pretty much owned by the same person, the Washington Post has published a pretty negative article about Amazon.
- Retric 7y agoNot to question their independence, but it seems to have a very positive spin for a negative article. Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products... Former executives say e-commerce giant, which last year spent $400 million fighting fraud and abuse is kind of saying well their trying really really hard, honest. I suspect this has less to do with the Amazon relationship than the tendency to give similar weight to both sides of an issue. It's the lazy form of neutrality where you look at the mid point on an issue rather than aim for objective reality. Unfortunately, this causes a polarizing effect as extreme views move the midpoint.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- benologist 7y agoI wish they broke that $400m down so we could see how much went to AWS. > the company has developed algorithms to sift through the more than 5 billion changes to its worldwide catalogue each day
- ummonk 7y agoAt Amazon’s scale, $400 million seems a year seems like a minuscule amount.
- Frost1x 7y agoI was actually surprised the WP even wrote this much. I read the title and saw it was a WP article and was immediately intrigued--not so much by the article contents but how the journalism would play out given the tight relationship. To me, it almost feels like damage control and saving face with all the given FTC investigations on current market monopolies.
- AlexandrB 7y agoAmazon's fulfilment has also become shockingly bad. Most items are shipped in lightly-padded manila envelopes resulting in high percentage of damaged goods if you order books[1], CDs/DVDs/BluRays, video games, or anything else where the packaging is part of the product. eBay is a much better experience in this regard. [1] In an ironic twist, I absolutely refuse to buy books from Amazon anymore.
- izzydata 7y agoI've received many damaged books from Amazon. Whenever I report the items as being damaged I am prepared with photographs of the damaged goods as proof, but they always send me another one without caring. It just feels so wasteful to save money by mishandling everything to the point where it doesn't even matter if stuff breaks because it is cheaper to try a 2nd time.
- AlexandrB 7y agoIt also flies in the face of Amazon's promise of convenience and "2-day delivery" guarantees when you have to have the same item shipped to you twice and make the trip to the post office to return the first one.
- thiagomgd 7y agowhen I bough a TV on Amazon, the screen was broke. I asked for another, and the replacement... has a broken screen. Returned both, and bought for $50 more on Bestbuy, but it came intact
- chihuahua 7y agoFor huge things like TVs I think it makes more sense to buy in in person at BestBuy or Costco. Costco's return policy alone is a big advantage. Plus they have so many TVs in the store where you can see them in operation.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
- benologist 7y agoAmazon's decision to employ lawyers and lobbyists instead of oversight resulted in a public black market they openly run but are not responsible for profiting from. I am excited to see which state will have the first Amazon fulfillment center crawling with feds. They have to raid one eventually to get to the bottom of the lead, the counterfeits etc. How is Amazon preventing the EPA or the FTC from doing their job and raiding facilities? It's almost like big oil and big tobacco again.... all-powerful companies deliberately doing wrong for profit, like Amazon they even looked too big to challenge for a very long time. > Amazon has been selling thousands of products that violate federal safety regulations, according to the Wall Street Journal, including toys containing dangerous levels of lead. https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poisoning-2019-8 https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poiso... > At the time, Nike agreed to sell a limited product assortment to Amazon, in exchange for stricter policing of counterfeits and restrictions on unsanctioned sales of its products. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/13/nike-wont-sell-directly-to-amazon-anymore.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/13/nike-wont-sell-directly-to-a...
- decebalus1 7y ago> I am excited to see which state will have the first Amazon fulfillment center crawling with feds. I share your excitement but I'm not optimistic about this ever happening considering the increasing amount of cash Amazon is spending in DC.
- dv_dt 7y agoInequality is back to the time of robber barons of industry, and so too is the lawlessness of many of the industry practices, where we are in the same state where technology and scale of organization are outrunning the philosophical theories of government operation to regulate them.
- compiler-guy 7y agoInequality goes back far beyond that. The slaves who built the pyramids in Egypt were pretty unequal from the Pharaoh. And even that wasn't the first society with inequality. It goes back far beyond recorded history.
- chadash 7y agoThe article talks about fake Hermes bracelets being sold for $25, when a real one is closer to $600. It's obviously a counterfeit. Does Amazon not have any requirement for a human to review a listing before allowing it up for sale?
- tyingq 7y agoI don't think there's even a reliable exception process to review items/sellers with lots of bad reviews. You would have to have that working first.
- jschwartzi 7y agoThe problem here is that Amazon wants an automated process, which is fundamentally incompatible with how sales works. You can't reliably go through and identify all of the products you sell by trademark and verify that the pricing is within a certain reasonable percentage of the seller's price or MSRP. And if there's no posted MSRP you're stuck assessing the market price based on how much others have paid for the same piece. This isn't a process you can automate. And Amazon is so deeply a software company that they can't conceive of a way to do this without using software.
- tyingq 7y agoI'm not convinced they have automated processes for simple stuff like "> 500 sold AND > 50% returned"
- binarysolo 7y agoThey do. 4% triggers an automated-ish warning and 10% triggers a serious notification which usually gets scrutinized by some Amazon member -- this happens inconsistently on low volume long tail items too which cause sellers massive ammounts of grief (example: we sell a bath robe from XXXS-XXXL and sold tens of thousands of units, but 5 XXXS items of which 2 were returned and labeled as "not as described" (which puts the return cost on us instead of the consumer), this triggers a Performance Notification and suddenly our entire account - 40M in sales in 5k SKUs is now at risk of shutting down. It's weird that it happens very inconsistently; we've also had store accounts which have 20% return rate on 1000s of items (pallet got damaged somewhere along shipping and crushed 20% of product) and just get an automated notice and no followup. source: Amazon seller
- privateSFacct 7y agoAll the ballyhoo about Amazon Transparency and UUID per item. This is a relatively well solved issue in other areas. Make become a seller a bit more difficult with some skin in the game ($2,500 deposit if you sell more than 15 items per year? In person identity verification?). Sellers used to meet with buyers agents (cost money and added identities). Caught selling garbage (product marked new actually used, totaly fake junk) enough times -> gone from marketplace and hard to get back in. The reality is Amazon doesn't care - there IS a market opportunity here for someone to take them on with trusted product catalog and quick shipping (using UPS / Fedex). I wish somebody would straight compete with them rather than all the complaining to politicians.
- dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago> I wish somebody would straight compete with them rather than all the complaining to politicians. One doesn't exclude the other.
- privateSFacct 7y agoThe point is to generate choices / alternatives. If you go the government involvement route you ossify industries and actually can make it harder for folks to compete. Funeral home chains were famous for pushing for lots of crazy regs that only a system with big economies of scale could meet to push out smaller independents. In some cities like SF zoning hoops mean that only folks with HUGE pockets / attorneys and long time horizons can get through the planning / permitting and building process - all other restaurants etc basically need to rent (which means if they make the neighborhood nice they don't benefit). What I want to know - is there a trusted online seller available now that a reasonable amazon alternative?
- finolex1 7y agoThere are lots of alternatives for each category of products - Zappos for shoes/clothes, Mouser for electrical components, etc. though there is no one competitor to Amazon that is as comprehensive as it is. Edit: Turns out Zappos is owned by Amazon. But my point still stands if we replace it with something else.
- vernie 7y agoShould WaPo's coverage of anything related to Amazon be allowed here?
- wyldfire 7y agoThey do disclose the potential conflict in the article and FWIW it's a pretty negative review of Amazon's business.
- nikolay 7y agoExcept that Amazon is no longer the cheapest source for many products. Their outrageous storage and fulfillment fees make most of their pricing higher than local store deals or even manufacturer's own websites.
- jklinger410 7y agoCame here for this. Amazon actually buries the cheapest price products in many searches I have done. eBay is not any better at this point. They are all squeezing to show higher priced products so they can make more money, obviously. Hate to say this but Walmart still seems committed to providing the lowest prices.
- toasterlovin 7y agoFWIW, speaking as a seller, the conventional wisdom is that number of separate orders for a given item as a result of a given search term is the primary driver of search result ranking. Not revenue maximization, in other words.
- nikolay 7y agoMaybe you're right, but this is self-serving and not serving the goal of presenting the cheapest products to customers. There are so many low-quality products on Amazon. Often the packaging is outrageously wasteful as well. For a bottle of supplements, they often sent a box within a box, filled with so much plastic, paper, etc. The environmental impact on Amazon is huge!
- toasterlovin 7y agoActually, I would make the case that this is best for customers. Amazon would be better served by optimizing for revenue (so higher prices would rank better), but customers are best served by what other customers like/bought (so number of orders would rank better). Also, products have plenty of opportunity to surface in search results. We have some top ranked items and Amazon constantly rotates products through all parts of the search results. Probably the reason that you're seeing lower cost items ranked lower is that they're not very good products. The listing copy and images are probably bad, so the listing doesn't convert. Or there are lots of returns. Stuff like that.
- mortenjorck 7y agoThere's a lot of emphasis in this article on counterfeits of luxury goods sold at obviously counterfeit prices (like the Hermès for 5% of genuine retail), but not much on the far more insidious (and seemingly pervasive, in my experience) general merchandise counterfeits sold for what is often not a suspiciously big discount. Categories like kitchen or yard tools are absolutely rife with counterfeits. As an example, search Amazon for Ove Glove heat-resistant oven gloves: The Amazon's-Choice-badged option (which, I know, is chosen by algorithm) yields a product page where the top review complains they received a product without several of the trademark details on the older set they own. The reviewer even acknowledges the difficulty in tracking down genuine Ove Gloves on Amazon! They ultimately resign themselves to defeat: "What a game: I rolled the dice and lost." Of course, there are also quite sophisticated fakes in categories such as consumer electronics. Fake controllers for game consoles are a standout: Search for the Playstation DualShock 4 controller and you'll find the official product page littered with reviews complaining of an entire continuum of fakes, ranging from obvious to ones that are almost entirely indistinguishable until the knockoff battery stops holding a charge after a few weeks. I'm not really sure what product categories are still safe to buy on Amazon, given that everything from food to books has varying degrees of counterfeit mixed in. At least something like an iPad should be impossible to fake due to the cryptographic requirements for booting the OS.
- ycombinete 7y agoTbh, at this point I don’t buy anything I that a value authenticity in from non-official distributors. I’ll go to the brands web page, and find their list of official resellers and buy from them only.
- perl4ever 7y agoI wanted a particular USB adapter, from what I thought was a "real" brand and as far as I could tell from the manufacturer webpage, it's only sold on Amazon. And the only option on Amazon was a third party.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y agoIt's the everyday goods counterfeits that actually concern me. A fake luxury handbag won't hurt me, a fake carbon monoxide detector will.
- blairanderson 7y agoI've been a consultant for Amazon suppliers since 2009 and seen tons of junk come onto the market. Every retailer in the world (besides Amazon) has incredibly strict supplier verification because if someone dies from a toaster fire, extension cord shortage, etc. then everyone sues everyone. Amazon DNGAF because the risk is on the "seller". Just like TAX RISK is on the "seller". People are importing shit from their basement, trying to get rich, with no clue about product risk when it should be slightly harder.
- baybal2 7y agoAmazon consultant? How is it these days? I used to do gigs as a trade agent in parallel to my part time job in a trade company 10 years ago.
- blairanderson 7y agoBusiness is good. Getting more and more crowded. We help companies that focus their sales team on brick & mortar accounts. They can go from 0-to-60 with AMZ platform experience across purchase orders, merchandising, advertising, invoicing, etc. Still tons of opportunity in strategy and digitizing catalogs for all manufacturers & importers in the country/world.
- sjy 7y agoHas anyone actually tried and failed to hold Amazon accountable for a dangerous product? I don't think it would be obvious to the average person that they're not transacting with Amazon when they use the Amazon website, and if Amazon's legal strategy depends on that distinction being upheld in every country, it seems risky.
- javagram 7y agohttps://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2019/07/09/amazon-hoverboard-fire-home-nashville-court-damages/1672277001/ https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2019/07/... “ Nashville mother Megan Fox didn’t know her hoverboard might explode, but Amazon did. Now, a federal appellate court says the nation’s largest online retailer may well have to shell out damages for a fire that trapped Fox’s children, forced them to leap from a second-story window and destroyed the family’s $1 million home.”
- rbarnes01 7y agoWhy not give the brand owners control of the product pages? They can decide to allow distributors and block counterfeits. Use eBay if you want to take advantage of the first sale doctrine. At this point it's not worth the risk to Amazon's credibility.
- Akababa 7y agoIt's the same as Wish and all the other "third-party" online marketplaces. They don't give a shit because they're making so much money from the "unsuspecting consumer" segment.
- non-entity 7y agoI've run across a few places on the web that use photos of high end products to advertise with, with luxury sounding names and legitimate look ads, but googling the "company" shows low quality ripoffs and enraged customers. From what I've read, they're pretty much immune from any legal action too.
- i_am_nomad 7y agoMost people using Wish are well aware of what they’re buying and how authentic it is.
- Akababa 7y agoThat might very well be true for the repeat customers and people who buy clothing, but I doubt anybody wants a 2TB USB stick that starts overwriting itself after 100MB.
- Glyptodon 7y agoForget counterfeits for a second. Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like straight going through AliExpress. But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup. But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation as Amazon! It's almost like the entire marketplace is overrun with untrustworthy cheap crap no matter where you shop and getting something you can trust is decent is only for large institutional or business actors and the wealthy. Which is to say I think the problem is bigger than just Amazon.
- uoaei 7y agoWhat could the problem be, then? Do we point fingers at capitalism? As far as I see it, this is the logical conclusion to capitalism and free markets. Manufacturers produce a product and sell it to many suppliers who all rebrand and mark up in their own ways, competing with each other for market share. As consumers, we are presented with basically only this option because the suppliers have all won the race to the bottom. There's no more room in the market for slightly-more-expensive things unless they work way better than the slightly-less-expensive copycat stuff, because it's not worth the time or energy to compete with the poor-quality stuff. But as a result, we as consumers no longer have "choice" in the market because of China (et al.)'s manufacturing capabilities and leverage driving this phenomenon. Coupled with the consumers' relative disinterest in products of proper quality, because what they have access to is already good enough for the moment, how can we ever expect the crapification of commodities to reverse?
- marcosdumay 7y agoThose things are not commodities. Commodities can not crapify (loved that word), by definition. Capitalism has invented brands to fight this, and it worked for a long time. It's not really capitalism that is at fault, but the thing that changed in the 80's that turned the entire system upside down. It's hard to point at something specific, but markets used to be less transactional and less winner-takes-all.
- bigbadgoose 7y agoIt's sad and brilliant how they look the other way while launching Amazon Basics as a trusted brand
- habosa 7y agoMy favorite Amazon scam is the Amazon Ship of Theseus[0]. You sell a product, normally a cheap electronic, and build up a decent corpus of positive reviews. A good example is a USB-C cable or something. Then you decide you want to sell a new product in a more competitive subcategory, like Bluetooth Headphones. You then take the _existing_ listing and change it piece by piece. First the pictures, then the title, then the price, etc. Until you have a listing for your headphones that comes with 5,000 pre-made positive reviews! Sure they're for a totally different product, but that doesn't affect the rankings. I see this all the time. If I go back in my order history and click on old products often the same "id" now maps to a totally different thing. For this reason I have basically stopped ordering from Amazon. I find that Walmart has like 99% of the inventory but none of it is fake (some is junk, but it's the junk I asked for). Same prices, same ship speed, no fake shit. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
- mmanfrin 7y agoASUS did this with their routers, and pooled reviews by making all of their routers different variants of each other, even if completely different. I was annoyed because I had an unbelievably shitty experience with one of their (very expensive prosumer) routers. The silver lining, for me, is that I was so fucking annoyed with ASUS support that I angrily shipped it back to Amazon, bought Ubiquiti equipment, and experienced such quality whiplash that I bought a bunch of UBNT (now UI) stock. +160% since I bought.
- Pxtl 7y agoGod damn. I'm disappointed because I went through a series of awful routers (TP-Link, D-Link, Netgear) and the Asus one is the first thing that actually works well. I've got some other Asus hardware I'm really happy with, so I was starting to warm up to them.
- tracker1 7y agoI was pretty happy with several Asus routers. Tomato firmware worked on them. After the FCC pushed mfgs to block third party firmware, it wasn't so good... my current higher end Linksys is ok, but will probably go Ubiquity next round when Wifi 6 (ax) becomes more common for actual devices.
- Timberwolf 7y agoThere are some categories of product I'm no longer willing to buy from Amazon: power cables, replacement chargers and batteries being the biggest offenders. They're such a minefield of fakery and shortcuts that are outright dangerous (e.g. UK plugs lacking fuses and with pins the wrong shape/size) that I'd rather have the extra work and expense of going to a local shop where I can inspect what I'm buying.
- Havoc 7y ago>power cables, replacement chargers and batteries being the biggest offenders. I've found Anker gear to be consistently solid on all three counts & frankly I trust it more than store bought. If I could even get it - wouldn't know where to start buying a 60W USB hub in a brick & mortar.
- cr0sh 7y agoI second Anker. Their stuff is pretty top notch. I tend to buy a lot of Arduino and RasPi stuff (plus all the fiddly bits) off Amazon, so there are a few sellers on there that I trust to get good "maker" electronics. Finally - if you're looking for low-cost but good quality DC gear motors - look into TSINY motors. They're a Chinese manufacturer. They have various vendors on Ebay and Amazon; some are almost (or seem like) "direct from the manufacturer", while others are "further down the chain". I can't vouch for any of them - only for the manufacturer itself (I wouldn't have any qualms with dealing direct with them for a large purchase - but I'm just a hobbyist, so that won't happen).
- JohnFen 7y agoAgreed, at least for large lithium-ion batteries. I pretty much buy Anker exclusively for those.
- AlexandrB 7y agoI wish Anker sold direct on their site (and shipped to Canada) because searching for Anker products on Amazon almost invariably turns up a sponsored, cheap knock off and an "Amazon Basics" product as the #1 and #2 results. I can't imagine they're happy about that either.
- heavyset_go 7y agoIf you receive a counterfeit item sold by Amazon, make sure to report it to the company whose product was counterfeited. When I went to return a counterfeit item to Amazon, I made it very clear that the item I received was fake. Amazon decided claim that the reason for the return was because it was damaged, not counterfeited. That's pretty shady in my book. There's liability for selling counterfeited goods, especially if your customers tell you that the products you stock are counterfeited and you continue to sell them anyway.
- closetohome 7y agoI'd just put "Item defective" or "Wrong item was sent." Both will net you a free exchange.
- heavyset_go 7y agoIt's the principle. Other people shouldn't have to be sent counterfeit items like I was after I make it clear that I was sent a fake item. Amazon certainly shouldn't profit from it, either.
- mindfulplay 7y agoI am a bit glad to see this come from WaPo and not NYT given the implication of ownership....
- Havoc 7y agoMust say my experiences with Amazon have been pretty consistently positive despite heavy purchasing. Plus I buy mostly warehouse open box stuff which is extra risky. Couple of lessons learned: * Warehouse deal laptops don't get checked for batteries. So it might boot & be good but dies if you pull the plug * Warehouse deal laptop have a increased chance of thermal issues (bad binning / bad thermal paste / whatever) * Open box / used is basically untouched like half the time. They rarely show actual signs of wear despite a billion warnings about 1/4 scratch on front and 3/4 on back and what not. * Pay careful attention to appliances that require both water and electricity. A cheap mini rice cooker was my 1 and thus far only genuinely sketchy Amazon encounter. * Camelcamelcamel FTW
- blunte 7y agoBezos is famous for being a micromanager to the extreme (and a very good one reportedly, if rather tyrannical). So there is no question about whether he has been personally aware of this situation for years. This follows a similar pattern (MS/Gates) where very unscrupulous business practices are employed until the company becomes a juggernaut and can do anything it wants, and the top executives become fabulously wealthy. Then one day, once the man is rich and successful enough that the thrill is gone, he switches to professional philanthropy. As time passes, _how_ he got to the top is forgotten and he is hailed a hero and American success.
- novaRom 7y agoIt's called "whitening". You can buy reputation and clean up the memories. I laugh each time I see those newborn philanthropists who built its wealth using others incompetence, literally by deception and fraudulent practices.
- chihuahua 7y agoWhat's funny about this article is that it's Bezos' own newspaper that's calling him out
- blunte 7y agoI just realized that also! I'm impressed at that... The author, Jay Greene, has written a number of articles that show Amazon not so favorably. This suggests some editorial freedom/neutrality at WaPo, which is positive.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoCarnegie did the same thing. First injure a lot of people in your factories and then suddenly become a noble philanthropist.
- Gusen 7y agoAudio of our President demanding a $4 billion dollar bribe from child rapists to “take a blind eye” on January 3, 2019. Trump becomes one on January 14, 2019. Also, here is the big reason the major networks do not report any of it. //Download the video, turn the volume all the way up and put head phones on. Note: there is not much to see in the video, the audio is picked up from another [illegal surveillance] system. Trump is on a call from with Henry Porter and Gigi Hadid. See page 63. Bribe demand at 10:18am: 3JanCh3_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77YG0Vr/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77... //President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, rapes and kills his first boy at 6:32am. Video link below: 14JanCh3_600.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/154QvA5hwyHGYIVXtod1ZbsOHFUJNbqZW/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/154QvA5hwyHGYIVXtod1ZbsOHFUJ... 14JanCh2_600-700.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/19UkqmnMwZiWy7xxWngltqwoKLTJL-IZ_/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/19UkqmnMwZiWy7xxWngltqwoKLTJ... //On January 18, 2019 at 8:31am (see page 8) Trump acknowledges the four billion dollar bribe and says: "Let's get it done and get to fucking some kids." Video link below: 18JanCh3_725-.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bVTcGq5Z9oOSAiOQcKYrmuK4TwoNmY1h/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bVTcGq5Z9oOSAiOQcKYrmuK4Two... //A big reason this has not been reported by the major news networks is right here. Lester Holt of NBC Nightly News, apparently a member of the Illuminati since the 1980's, along with ABC Nightly News lead anchor David Muir, stop over to the Porter studio in Buffalo on January 14th, 2019 at 5:00am. They both rape and kill about two dozen boys by 6:00am. Muir starts around 5:15am, then Holt about 5:38am. Multi-billionaire Rupert Murdoch, owner of News Corp & Fox Corporation, takes his turn after Holt. Video links below: 14JanCh3_500-601.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX3o7UL/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7NKepeyG_FfdQRrM7KsnFOZOOX... 14JanCh2_530-600.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1RwidV/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZzgN5ilI7ToroU5cfqMaL4o2u1... Adding to the reason this is not picked up by the media, CBS & Viacom owner Sumner Redstone and Leslie Moonves rape boys following the President. 14JanCh3_700.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXaB4aI0/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XDw6x3ldnnQiq7oIjpdYVENyXa... 14JanCh2_700-800.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWYKfRDp/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS_e6AzEZ05wnfljkGMETGU5CWY... //This is the tip of the iceberg. //Full 88 page PDF [updated 12Nov]: FBI_FinalDraft_26Jul2019_BSchlenker.pdf https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ... //This post will be censored when this account logs off, the posts are "shadow banned". They try to make it look like the post is live, but it is not. Here is an example. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zxS8JESoIg7uxRkUgdptMsF6SuJedYKz/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zxS8JESoIg7uxRkUgdptMsF6SuJ... \\@Video of the Buffalo Police illegally seizing my apartment at 307 Summer Street without a warrant on behalf of child rapist Henry M. Porter on January 18, 2019. The day before, BPD Chief Lockwood and US Attorney for WNY Kennedy rape boys for Porter. Trump on 10Jan demands $138 million for smooth outcome ( Full audio of it here. \\Video links below. See pages 7-10 of the PDF below for more... 18JanCh4_KnockToEnd.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N2mozGdPD7HMWELjRhvIZ94eBLjXEAVX/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N2mozGdPD7HMWELjRhvIZ94eBLj... Yes, it is the Buffalo Police. View from Ch3: NVR@ch3@main.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JNMZn6JxYTCBULkC58AQtXa75hzjPVlr/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JNMZn6JxYTCBULkC58AQtXa75hz... Transcript of the event: https://drive.google.com/file/d/192B7tZa3b23Ab0UkSLGqNuLBUrDqOaAr/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/192B7tZa3b23Ab0UkSLGqNuLBUrD... \\The (early) morning before, Henry Porter insists Buffalo Police Commissioner Byron Lockwood, and US Attorney for the Western New York region James Kennedy, and FBI Supervisory Special Agent Andrew Abromowitz among others, rape and kill boys to confirm their membership in the “Illuminati”. Download the video, turn the volume all the way up and put head phones on. Note: there is not much to see in the video, the audio is picked up from another [illegal surveillance] system. Buffalo Police Commissioner Byron Lockwood rapes and kills boys starting 3:25am. US Attorney for Western New York James Kennedy starts right after at about 3:31am. Both rape multiple boys to death on January 17, 2019. Erie County Social Services Special Invesigator Keith Pelky rapes four boys to death starting about 2:45am. FBI supervisory special agent Andrew Abromowitz at 2:53am onward. WGRZ Channel 2 News in Buffalo lead anchor Scott Levin begins about 3:00am. 17JanCh3_200-300.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uzXPvnyDz_tm25MbeW5oKseH-jrckFsS/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uzXPvnyDz_tm25MbeW5oKseH-jr... 17JanCh3_300-445.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gTDU4Eris8a3QO1llI3gCRmr11zrSdjk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gTDU4Eris8a3QO1llI3gCRmr11z... 17JanCh4_230-430.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZoJNJwlTRlDf2PD-IV5jTAqnYPEWjFnC/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZoJNJwlTRlDf2PD-IV5jTAqnYPE... Erie County Commissioner of Social Services Marie Cannon, “preps” boys for rape by these men @2:53am. This means she performs oral sex on the boys’ penis and anus, as a child rapist like Henry Porter would, while trying to remove fecal matter from the boy prior to handing them over to be raped and subsequently murdered. These acts expected of female (full) members of the Illuminati. Elisha Burkart and her sister Gelisa join Marie in the duties here. \\Back on January 10, 2019, Porter enlisted the support of his paid off politicians, including the President of the United States, in a show of force to make an example of this tenant who went against his wishes. The Buffalo City Court clerks were paid and instructed to simply enter a judgment into the court system, thus bypassing the tenant's fifth amendment rights while the President is observing this happen. Trump requests a $138 million dollar bribe for a golf course to "ensure a smooth outcome". Excerpts of the dialogue and full audio below. Again, Download the video, turn the volume all the way up and put head phones on. Note: there is not much to see in the video, the audio is picked up from another [illegal surveillance] system. See page 47 in the PDF, which can be downloaded below. 10JanCh3_951-1033.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iSeGHDToFRoRdIht50Wii0i30mlw9INp/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iSeGHDToFRoRdIht50Wii0i30ml... 10JanCh2_1000-1033.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RyFLV_MOYTe2LCl2Q9hT5T3_9ZJH4qvd/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RyFLV_MOYTe2LCl2Q9hT5T3_9ZJ... Excerpts of the dialogue: 1000 Kamala Harris - Matthew Porter: "Are you interested in participating?" Harris: "You'll have to speak with Senator Pelosi." MPorter: "We have. We're paying you $3 billion dollars. " Harris: "Ok count me in." 1004 Barack Obama - Matthew Porter: "...this guy was basically a bartender and doesn't know how things really work. We're gonna show him." Obama: "Well you already have me covered let me know what you need..." 1003 Donald Trump - Wants $138 million for a golf course at [Mar-a-Lago?] to ensure this goes smoothly. "Schlenker is gone...I believe everyone will be ok, that motherfucker has to go." 1004 Corey Hogan - "Outrageous this guy wants another $138 million...we already gave him $4 billion" viewer comments: "I cannot believe Trump is here....he just acknowledged the [falsified] judgment..." "...Trump is giving Henry advice how to get around the judgment..." 1007 Andrew Cuomo: "Am I confident we could do this without the President involved? Absolutely not." 1007 MPorter: "It's embarrassing but we need the President in case he [Brian Schlenker] catches on it would go all the way to the Supreme Court." 1007 Michinewski(sp?): "This shit is getting too stupid to believe." Note: this is BPD3 from 18Jan. 1010 MPorter: "Kamala how many people do you think are with us [on this]?" Harris: "I don't know how many are on here?" MPorter: "About 350,000...we've had as much as 3 million...when Brian got the [petition] off the door 350,000 watched and 3 million logged on to see what happened." 1014 Matthew Porter comments the judgment has now been entered into the system... These events were excerpts from this 88 page PDF . It keeps getting censored, but with enough public awareness, they will eventually have to face justice. Please help get this around [updated 12Nov]: FBI_FinalDraft_26Jul2019_BSchlenker.pdf https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ... \\This post will be censored/removed is when this account logs off. Posts are "shadow banned". They try to make it look like the post is live, but it is not. Here is an example. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zxS8JESoIg7uxRkUgdptMsF6SuJedYKz/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zxS8JESoIg7uxRkUgdptMsF6SuJ...
- lashieloo 7y agoThis must be intentional on Amazons part. Other e-commerce companies like eBay completely removes these sort of counterfeit luxury goods from appearing on their site. Amazon could easily do the same thing if they wanted to. Also eBay has even less seller verification than Amazon. So that excuse doesn’t work.
- JohnFen 7y agoI remember when Amazon was a relatively safe place to shop, and I didn't have to be as suspicious of what was sold there as I had to be in other places (such as eBay). But that stopped being the case a while back. I learned the hard way that I can't be so casual about buying from Amazon anymore. This has eliminated a large part of the advantage that Amazon had for me.
- novaRom 7y agoThere are different price-comparison sites in Europe, so I usually go directly to idealo.de and there are so many choices! Amazon is not even the cheapest place.
- hrdwdmrbl 7y agoI feel this problem as both a buyer and a seller. The fake copies are everywhere and it's really hard to fix them. I am forced to buy my competitor's fake product, receive it and then file a complaint that it's fake. That is the only way I have to deter the fake sellers. As a buyer, prices are also crazy sometimes. I never buy with confidence any more on Amazon having faith about getting the lowest price. I now always double-check Walmart and often Walmart is cheaper!
- novaRom 7y agoI stopped using Amazon because they sell mostly junk as recently: the same pictures but different names, incorrect overemphasizing statements and fake tech specs, mostly made in China objects. Examples: binoculars, microscopes, telescopes, monoscopes, digital amplifiers, bluetooth headphones, etc.
- iliketrains 7y agoOne of my Amazon orders was just re-ordered from Wallmart under my name and shipped by Wallmart to my address. I even got the Walmart receipt with the cheaper price in the package. I was not happy about that, esp. that some stranger is entering my shipping info to some other retailers DB. It is also clearly against Amazon ToS. I have contacted Amazon, citing the ToS violation and concern about my personal data and the only thing they said was that they are sorry and will notify the seller bout this. Nothing happened. Also, my honest review about this was taken down.
- JohnFen 7y agoSince Walmart is on my list of companies that I will never do business with, this would make me absolutely enraged. But then, I'm thinking that Amazon should be added to my "no business" list as well, so this may be a moot point.
- blairanderson 7y agoWas it a product review or seller review?
- iliketrains 7y agoProduct review. There are seller reviews too?
- philip1209 7y agoOh hey, that's me in the article :-) After getting a fraudulent bag from Amazon, it was frustrating to have to fight for a refund. While my credit card would have easily processes a chargeback, I'm afraid do that. If you don't play by the rules of a marketplace, then you risk getting banned.
- sharadov 7y agoIronic that this appears on the washington post, Bezos's newspaper!
- oblib 7y agoI quit Amazon Prime about 2-3 years ago and haven't purchased anything from their site after they let a seller send me a completely bogus product (it was supposed to be rose oil) and wouldn't let me rate and comment on it after I demanded a refund (which I got). And the product is still there. And while it has a lot of buyers still exposing and complaining about it in the reviews Amazon has done nothing at all to stop the sellers. I really don't see how Amazon cannot be held both complicit and liable in cases of blatant fraud like this, and one has to assume it's a pervasive and growing problem for buyers there.
- tyjen 7y agoOn one hand, it's interesting to see how sellers adapt to the rules set in place by Amazon, but on the other hand, it's annoying to sift through hundreds of items with questionable reviews or sources.
- siruncledrew 7y agoSuddenly, Amazon's massive presence is also Amazon's weak point of entry to encumber the experience. Chinese sellers flock to Amazon to assert their seller positions in Amazon's marketplace by doing whatever is necessary to ensure product ranking and profit. They have the means, labor, and production at their disposal, which is a competitive advantage that will only further cement their dominance. Amazon contractors like warehouse workers and delivery agents couldn't give less of a shit about the packaging or delivery of items. The only thing from stopping sellers from going full-Taobao and just openly selling/promoting every kind of brand-name fake, like replica North Face, Louis Vuitton, and Apple, to US consumers is the legal attitude of IP in the US compared to China.
- menacingly 7y agoI'm surprised Amazon hasn't taken action on the dicey quality problems, because I've watched it grow from obscure topic of online conversation to complaints from people I know personally who aren't particularly picky. This must be costing them money, and it isn't getting smaller.
- a3n 7y ago> [All of the comments here that say "How can Amazon not be aware/not fix/not police this?"] Amazon has learned from Google that past a certain size, it pays to be a non-servicing opaque monolith.
- a3n 7y agoNewegg deserves your dollar for what they sell, for being an anti-patent troll warrior.
- ctingom 7y agoI've started ordering from other companies because of all of this. Walmart, Home Depot, Target, and small businesses. Lots of good vendors out there that ship quickly!
- sidlls 7y agoMy wife has run a business for some time on Amazon. It's not big, mainly for baby related products. She's in the process of issuing removal orders for all the stuff in their warehouses and will discontinue the business there. Partly this is due to the numerous cheap knockoffs and imitations of things she worked pretty hard to source quality materials and manufacturing for driving prices into the dirt, partly it's due to Amazon's outrageous fees (FBA can take over 30% of the gross on some items), and partly it's Amazon's inconsistent deactivation of products and demanding she "request approval" to sell them--products she's been selling on Amazon for months or years. The marketplace on Amazon is a dumpster fire.
- binarysolo 7y agoBaby (category) is tricky - you can bet that she's getting all sorts of approval things because some cheapass Chinese product poisoned some kid and now Amazon has to really put pressure on all the legit existing vendors to have MSDS sheets and whatever relevant testing sheets nowadays.
- sunstone 7y agoSelling fakes has been Amazon's business model from the beginning hasn't it?
- wcfields 7y agoBeyond counterfeits as mentioned another huge issue is getting someone else's return. I've been shopping for a bed frame and it's shocking how many people got bed bugs from a bed frame they bought from Amazon. Mattress covers/protectors are just as bad with people complaining of fleas and stains. I brought this up at work and I was speaking to some of my co-workers with kids, ditto goes for buying a high-chair to have one come with crud and food all over it in the box.
- DayDollar 7y agoJust imagine, if you had a local person, who would wade through the muck for you, combing the flea market for valuables and offer them to you. That resident amazon shopping expert, could even open up a residency near you. Where he would defuse planned obsolescence in cheap electronics and spread happiness all aroudn for a small fee. That residence in a street near you - i should patent this- we could call it a shop. What a concept.
- reiichiroh 7y agoWhat about when Amazon copies the product you make and sell? https://www.geek.com/news/amazonbasics-is-copying-all-the-best-products-on-amazon-and-selling-them-for-less-1652879/ https://www.geek.com/news/amazonbasics-is-copying-all-the-be...